Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger

[paulandfran]

That's the inference I object to. Like nothing like this would have happened on a Carnival sponsored tour. :rolleyes::confused:

 

Exactly. Disingenuous.

 

Ok... I'm out of here. Too sad to read anymore.

[Arzeena]

Saw this news on the main CC page. Very tragic that such a young life is lost. My prayers are with Lizmarie's family.

[sharecruises]

This is a fallacy to compare these venues of crime While I agree that crime happens - nothing like this has ever happened in my town - no one has been "gunned down in gang cross fire"

 

Its a tragedy... and so sad that we and the Bahamian police are so gung ho to catch and apprehend the "barefoot bandit" yet you hear nothing of this or any sort of justice for her parents on the news!

 

Sorry but the Bahamian police have nothing to do with St Thomas...neither do the police in St Louis or St Augustine or whatever

 

Bahamas is not a US Territory, St Thomas is...I really don't understand what you are even trying to say here

 

You are comparing apples to oranges....arresting the barefoot bandit didn't cause this nor not arresting him would not have prevented it

 

I think this is a real tragedy but knee jerk pronouncements only confuse things..

 

also it seems they are making arrests in St Thomas

Whatever they do/don't do in St Thomas has no bearing on Bahamas and vice versa. If some Latvian in Latvia gets shot we don't send over cops from Chicago and the Bahamas have NO jurisdiction or responsibility for what happens in the US Virgin Island <sigh>

[sharecruises]

I don't blame Carnival for that statement...

 

the media blows everything up when it comes to cruiselines

 

example : shipboard suicides...people commit suicide in their home/hotels/a park or whatever...and yet when they (selfishly) jump off a ship we see all this hoopla

 

Carnival didn't run the tour and maybe they wanted to "nip in the bud" the negative remarks that the media and the 'bruises" that certain websites will try to lay on them

 

I don't blame them. It is nice that they help the family or do what they can for them but they are not legally responsible and they don't deserve the stupid articles that are sure to come.

 

As far as St Thomas...sounds like they have some real problems beyond the beauty of the island. Hopefully this will be a wakeup call for their government and police

[chickie_mite]

Nahhh... that statement doesn't release them from any legal liability. It's more PR. But in the end I think to some of us it stuck out and didn't feel quite right. And leaving it out would not have made me blame Carnival any more or any less.

 

This is just so sad. :(

 

I hope like someone else posted, this tragedy is a catalyst for some meaningful change there.

 

 

Precisely.

[nrdsb4]

^^^Sharecruises, I think she was complaining that the Barefoot Bandit got more press. I don't know why she mentioned the Bahamian police's desire to catch him in her argument, but I think the main gist was that the little girl's death was not deemed as noteworthy by the media.

[KCCruisin']

It is good to hear that Captain Messina has said that Carnival is suspending Coki Beach on their tours. The unfortunate thing is this can happen there, another island, Europe or to me walking down the street here in Tampa....

 

I certainly agree with this perspective, crime is everywhere, even in places you would least expect it to be. My prayers go out to the family; such a horrible tragedy.

[WishIwasOutThereNOW]

how terribly sad, only 14 years old. i always thought st. thomas was one of the safer ports like grand cayman.

 

different gun laws. kid in atlanta got killed a few weeks ago while in church. stray bullet came through the wall, hit him in the head.

 

terrible loss for both families.

[busybusy23]

What does it take for cruise ships to change their itinerary ? For example, how long after the St-Croix blood bath did they decide not to go ?

 

St-Thomas is such a large port for so many ships. How do they make the decisions to change port when passengers do not feel safe anymore ?

 

I am certainly not getting off on St-Thomas. It is not just this incident but everything that came out as a result of this. St-Thomas is not the safe Island that I thought it was....

 

By the way, I was on the Victory in April and some people on cruise sponsored excursion got robbed by robbers with guns. No one was hurt but I am sure those people were nervous after ! The ship cannot control what goes on on the Island.

[airlink diva]

I have been to the island twice. St Thomas is no worse than most of the other islands. However Coki Beach, no matter how beatiful it is, always gives me a creepy feeling due to the surrounding environment...

 

First of all, like the others on this thread, I will have the family in my prayers. A cruise vacation is normally a time of joy and the family seem to be heading for a fun day at the beach on a local open taxi.

I know in 2008 when my open taxi was heading to Coki beach, the area near the beach was not very welcoming to me.

[sharecruises]

^^^Sharecruises, I think she was complaining that the Barefoot Bandit got more press. I don't know why she mentioned the Bahamian police's desire to catch him in her argument, but I think the main gist was that the little girl's death was not deemed as noteworthy by the media.

 

That might be but the Barefoot Bandit has had a huge following and been the subject of many many news articles and shows etc

 

This sad story only happened yesterday and now it is on the front page of aol and other online media, I am sure it will be on the news shows all day and night.

 

and to be honest about this...I am sure there are gang related *and other murders in the US yesterday that won't get any national attention, some might only get a little blurb on the back pages of the city in question's newspaper

 

One can only hope that the government and police of St Thomas will "wake up"....this is a very sad tragedy and so sorry for her and her poor family.

[sharecruises]

What does it take for cruise ships to change their itinerary ? For example, how long after the St-Croix blood bath did they decide not to go ?

 

St-Thomas is such a large port for so many ships. How do they make the decisions to change port when passengers do not feel safe anymore ?

 

I am certainly not getting off on St-Thomas. It is not just this incident but everything that came out as a result of this. St-Thomas is not the safe Island that I thought it was....

 

By the way, I was on the Victory in April and some people on cruise sponsored excursion got robbed by robbers with guns. No one was hurt but I am sure those people were nervous after ! The ship cannot control what goes on on the Island.

 

I was in St Croix in the 90's on Princess. Carnival corp pulled out not because of violent attack but because the "anti US" govt and court had a mock system that allowed the "perps" to go completely free

 

Then they pulled out

 

Should Carnival cruise out of Orlando which has a pretty high crime rate??

New York? Los Angeles? Miami?? San Juan??

 

There is crime everywhere. I don't think the area around Coki is very safe. I would still visit St Thomas but go to a "safer" beach..the Morningstar Marriott beach is close to the Carnival Port and very "Marriott" safe

 

I don't know any places totally safe do you??

[LemurCat]

Nahhh... that statement doesn't release them from any legal liability.

 

No one said anything about legal liability. More like the Court of Public Opinion.

 

It's more PR. But in the end I think to some of us it stuck out and didn't feel quite right.

 

Exactly, it's akward. But it's also necessary to ensure investors that they didn't have even an inadvertant hand in this.

 

And leaving it out would not have made me blame Carnival any more or any less.

 

Well, with all due respect, you're not a credit analysist for Moody's. ;)

[nrdsb4]

What does it take for cruise ships to change their itinerary ? For example, how long after the St-Croix blood bath did they decide not to go ?

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the Fountain Valley massacre in St. Croix happened in 1972. I believe Carnival pulled out of St. Croix in 2002, so I rather doubt one had much to do with the other. It seems that the crime rate in general was blamed vs. any one event. Some USVI residents have postulated that Carnival left the island because they weren't making all that much money by stopping there and that it really had little to do with the crime rate there, which supposedly was less than in St. Thomas at that time.

[nrdsb4]

I was in St Croix in the 90's on Princess. Carnival corp pulled out not because of violent attack but because the "anti US" govt and court had a mock system that allowed the "perps" to go completely free

 

Then they pulled out

 

 

 

If we are both talking about the Fountain Valley golf course massacre, that's entirely untrue. All of the defendants were convicted and sent to prison. One did escape years later.

 

http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/local-news/2002/09/05/fountain-valley-put-vi-unwanted-spotlight-1

[nrdsb4]

That might be but the Barefoot Bandit has had a huge following and been the subject of many many news articles and shows etc

 

This sad story only happened yesterday and now it is on the front page of aol and other online media, I am sure it will be on the news shows all day and night.

 

and to be honest about this...I am sure there are gang related *and other murders in the US yesterday that won't get any national attention, some might only get a little blurb on the back pages of the city in question's newspaper

 

One can only hope that the government and police of St Thomas will "wake up"....this is a very sad tragedy and so sorry for her and her poor family.

 

I agree, and basically framed my response to her in very similar fashion to yours.

[Cristallo]

There are no words to say about this random tragic act done by a coward. :(

[sharecruises]

If we are both talking about the Fountain Valley golf course massacre, that's entirely untrue. All of the defendants were convicted and sent to prison. One did escape years later.

 

http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/local-news/2002/09/05/fountain-valley-put-vi-unwanted-spotlight-1

 

That happened years before

 

they had an incident where a Carnival cruise passenger was stabbed in the stomach right on a tourist beach...he lived...the "perps" were caught...the anti US court/government did not prosecute them

 

Carnival pulled out

[JoyfulGal]

Post #70

It's a legal liability issue. It's probably a line one of their lawyers threw in there. That's why it matters.

 

Post #88

No one said anything about legal liability. More like the Court of Public Opinion.

 

:confused::rolleyes::confused:

[SunFunCruiser]

This is so tragic. My heart goes out to this family.

 

 

Although I do absolutely understand why the letter was worded the way it was, the it-wasn't-one-of-our-shore-excursion-taxis really struck me.

 

Is the letter worded that way to indicate that a ship's excursion taxi would not have been in that area?

 

Because it seems to me that this could have been anyone, on any shore excursion, at any time.

 

??

 

I agree, I hate the way it was worded, could have been anyone at any time. It was more like a plug to do their excursions.

[H2OH!]

My deepest sympathy goes out to this family. My thoughts and prayers are with them. :(

[GoodAsGold]

Back in 2007 when we sailed to the Mexican Riviera, Acapulco was one of our ports. I had sailed there in '03 and it was fine. We went to see the cliff divers. But, my brother and sister in law were with us in '07 and both are in law enforcement so they seem to be more aware of crime. They refused to get off the ship in Acapulco because of the fear of crossfire. There had been beheadings and other horrific deaths (drug cartels). A tourist had also been caught in the middle in one situation, so my in-laws said NO WAY. My daughter and I did get off the ship, but we only walked close by. Maybe my in-laws were right, although like it was mentioned here, how does one really know what they're heading into when going into a port?

[LemurCat]

Post #70

 

 

Post #88

 

 

:confused::rolleyes::confused:

 

Wow, you caught me. Want a cookie?

[JoyfulGal]

Wow, you caught me. Want a cookie?

 

Nope. Don't feel like eating any cookies today.

 

Sad day for Carnival and St. Thomas and mostly feel sad for the girl's family. :(

[SomeBeach]

...not just St. Thomas, but also Jamaica, Antigua, Bahamas, New York, New Orleans, Hawaii, London, .... small town USA....

 

We have been to St. Thomas at least 8-10 times and never had a problem or witnessed anything - though that means nothing. What happened to that family was a random act of violence - though the randomness doesn't matter because that 14 year old girl is dead and a family is now grieving. Wrong place, wrong time.

 

My condolences to the family. How tragic...

 

Kathy

 

Very well said.

 

For the young girl, Memory Eternal.

For the family, may angels of comfort help as you cope with the loss of your loved one.

 

Kathy, your first sentence sums it up. No place is totally safe any more. Large cities, small towns, it seems gangs and crime have just grown so much one needs to be careful just walking out their door. Living near Chicago, we hear of bullets going through windows, killing innocent folks just sitting inside.