Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger

[nothomeonacruise]

There was no impolite tone associated with my post-- just to let you know. (though I know these boards have a generally rude, aggressive aspect to them... mine was just succinct).

 

That's good. Yes, tone is everything.

 

I do agree there is a problem in St. Thomas, as Joe stated. This incident came as a shock to me. However, I'm still going to St. Thomas, as it's one of my favorite places. I'm just not goingt to venture out beyond my family's favorite cafe and shopping area. As I said, it's important to be safe. This is a wake-up call. I'm not going to stop going there. We all make our own decisions. This isn't saying anyone else should or should not go there. I can't see hurting the good merchants (like Gladys from Gladys Cafe) who try to make it special for people.

[debee1015]

I feel horribly for the young girl and her family. No matter where it happened its a horrific senseless act.

 

I also feel horrible for all the honest, hard working merchants in St Thomas who this is going to have a tremendous negative impact on. It's a shame that such a beautiful island has a rotten underbelly.

 

We went on a great Tour with Henry, and we're going back in October, and now I may just keep it as a ship day.

[reeree313]

My heart goes out to this family. What a tragedy. We were just there Tuesday of last week. We did feel safe. Had no idea this wasn't a safe port.

[oncruisecontrol]

This was an interesting blog from one of the locals.

 

http://www.stthomasblog.com/?p=5351

 

 

Thank you for posting this link. I read the entire blog and comments.

[sjn911]

I spoke to my sister by phone today---the one I mentioned earlier who owns a nice home in St. Thomas but refuses to live there. She said another crime that goes unreported (or underreported or misreported) is rape, and that home invasions are becoming much more common. It's no wonder she doesn't want to live there!

 

It's sad for the upstanding, law abiding locals who WANT things to change but are helpless to do anything about the situation.

 

I thank you for your post mentioned above and this too...good to be forwarned on the severity of the climate of crime there..sjn911.

[busybusy23]

http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2010/07/13/double-homicide-suspect-arrested-after-turning-himself

 

Is he going to go under "house arrest" ? What do they do with murderers ? This post with people on house arrest instead of jail is very scary (earlier in this thread).

[fin]

This kind of thing can happen anywhere.

 

But the likelihood varies hugely from place to place. Some places are MUCH safer than other places. Copenhagen is likely safer than Mogadishu. Some cruise lines have discontinued cruises to Seychelles and Maldives due to piracy.

 

It occurs to me that the fact that they were not on a Carnival tour will leave the family with only the taxi driver to sue. The deep pockets that would have existed on a Carnival sponsored tour to the same place are denied them. I suppose the VI government, police department, the tourism bureau and even a local travel agent could get a notification at some point or other.

[big_duck]

But the likelihood varies hugely from place to place. Some places are MUCH safer than other places. Copenhagen is likely safer than Mogadishu. Some cruise lines have discontinued cruises to Seychelles and Maldives due to piracy.

 

It occurs to me that the fact that they were not on a Carnival tour will leave the family with only the taxi driver to sue. The deep pockets that would have existed on a Carnival sponsored tour to the same place are denied them. I suppose the VI government, police department, the tourism bureau and even a local travel agent could get a notification at some point or other.

 

Sue the cab driver for what? Driving down the street?

 

Yeesh.

[sharecruises]

But the likelihood varies hugely from place to place. Some places are MUCH safer than other places. Copenhagen is likely safer than Mogadishu. Some cruise lines have discontinued cruises to Seychelles and Maldives due to piracy.

 

It occurs to me that the fact that they were not on a Carnival tour will leave the family with only the taxi driver to sue. The deep pockets that would have existed on a Carnival sponsored tour to the same place are denied them. I suppose the VI government, police department, the tourism bureau and even a local travel agent could get a notification at some point or other.

 

??? sue?? I listed a whole bunch of drive by's...who will they sue??

 

There may be some sort of victim compensation fund , I don't know

 

The cab driver did nothing wrong really...they drive by that cemetery all the time on the way to Coki....in face some members on the ports boards praise some of the well known drivers, the safari bus drivers..some members here have raved about Coki, snorkeling "bring dog biscuits"

 

Tragedies happen....the driver didn't put them at any unusual risk...he didn't drive them to a drug den or have a "set up"...frankly I find that incident in the Bahamas where a Carnival tour was targeted for robbery more frightning

 

This was a drug dealer revenge/feud driveby revenge deal....so sad that tour bus happened to be there at just the wrong moment

[guau]

Yesterday, 12:13 PM

SunFunCruiser

Cool Cruiser Join Date: Sep 2001

Location: Florida

Posts: 1,424

 

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chickie_mite

This is so tragic. My heart goes out to this family.

 

 

Although I do absolutely understand why the letter was worded the way it was, the it-wasn't-one-of-our-shore-excursion-taxis really struck me.

 

Is the letter worded that way to indicate that a ship's excursion taxi would not have been in that area?

 

Because it seems to me that this could have been anyone, on any shore excursion, at any time.

 

??

 

I agree, I hate the way it was worded, could have been anyone at any time. It was more like a plug to do their excursions.

__________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:mad: Yeah, it shows how much they really do care, and are only thinking about the family, doesn't it? This is EXACTLY how I took it as well. What if it had happened on one of their excursions? One thing is to protect investors, it's another thing to take advantage of such an unfortunate situation. One of your passengers died Carnival! If you're so worried about bad press/potential backlash, at least take care of it with class and show some respect and consideration for the family. They might as well have just said, "See? This is why we stress you take our excursions. Don't worry about them being identical excursions at double the price, because they are safer."

 

My condolences to the family, who I'm sure didn't need, or care for that "extra" wording?

[sharecruises]

Y

 

 

 

:mad: Yeah, it shows how much they really do care, and are only thinking about the family, doesn't it? This is EXACTLY how I took it as well. What if it had happened on one of their excursions? One thing is to protect investors, it's another thing to take advantage of such an unfortunate situation. One of your passengers died Carnival! If you're so worried about bad press/potential backlash, at least take care of it with class and show some respect and consideration for the family. They might as well have just said, "See? This is why we stress you take our excursions. Don't worry about them being identical excursions at double the price, because they are safer."

 

My condolences to the family, who I'm sure didn't need, or care for that "extra" wording?

 

When the tourists were robbed on a Carnival excursion in the Bahamas they said it was a Carnival excursion. When the cave tubing tragedy happened they said it was a Carnival excursion.

 

Not to mention...people are curious. IF they didn't say this , many would be asking "was this a Carnival excursion?"

 

Some would (wrongly) claim it was. Already people on the St Thomas board are asking "which of the tour guides was it?? Godfrey or Sunny Liston or ???"

 

the ones to blame are the gang bangers/murderers....and now just stay away from that part of the island IMHO

 

If they "pretended" this was a Carnival excursion would that make anyone feel any better?? They stopped their OWN tours to Coki and from what I read stopped all their own tours.

 

How would it be "classy" to lie or to not say?? Then we would have a bunch of sensationalist reporters saying it was a Carnival tour....in the case of fairness Carnival would have to make MORE statements and press conference to set the record straight. <sigh>

 

This is simply a tragedy but why blame Carnival??

[LSEA]

I am puzzled by the people who are outraged by Carnival stating it was a privately arranged tour. How many cruise passengers are booked on a Carnival excursion in St. Thomas in the next few days / weeks? THOUSANDS! People hear things like this and they panic. Can't you imagine people going over the Carnival excursion list for St. Thomas trying to figure out which tour this family was on, Carnival phone lines and excursion desks being swamped?

 

Okay, maybe they could have released the info in a separate statement. I doubt the family is at all concerned with what was written, I am sure they are otherwise occupied. And from the bits of info available on Cruise Critic and other sites, it seems as though Carnival is doing everything possible to support this family during their incredibly difficult time.

[Pugsley]

Seriously:confused: how can you say that it's more likely to happen in St. Thomas, then anywhere else?? It sounds as though your statement might be a bit off, coming from someone living in the DC metro area (where I grew up). IMO, I bet your chances of getting mugged or shot in DC are far greater then in St. Thomas.

 

Um, I can say it because there have been 64 murders in DC so far this year in a population of ~600,000 people and there have been 44 reported murders in St. Thomas in a population of ~100,000. I don't understand what's confusing about that. And if you want to add the daily tourists to the population number, that makes it even worse since DC gets THOUSANDS more visitors each day than St. Thomas. And, by the way, if I went to any travel website and said I wanted to walk around the Anacostia area (in DC) I would be quickly told not to do that. But when I asked about walking to K-Mart and taking a safari bus to Red Hook, not ONE person said that might not be a good idea.

 

Also, I agree with sharecruises that Carnival didn't do anything wrong by saying it wasn't their tour. That is simply a fact that everyone would want to know. What do you expect them to say?

[nrdsb4]

Sue the cab driver for what? Driving down the street?

 

Yeesh.

 

 

Hey, that's the mentality. Consider the quote below from several pages ago:

 

. The driver, a local, should have known that this was a dangerous area.

 

An obvious suggestion of blame and thus, liability. You can bet your life that had this been a Carnival excursion, the lawyers would already be circling. Because they "should have known."

[jessemon]

This is a fallacy to compare these venues of crime While I agree that crime happens - nothing like this has ever happened in my town - no one has been "gunned down in gang cross fire"

My hometown in upstate NY (Binghamton, NY) population 55,000 was considered one of the safest places to live in the US....Two years ago a nut case walked into the Civic Association and killed 13 people and wounded 26 before shooting himself.....

Yep, it can happen anyplace.

Now back to the point of this thread...

I am glad to hear the guy in the crossfire that killed this girl turned himself in. Now the law inforcement people need to round up everyone imvoled and throw them all in jail. If they all weren't shooting at each other that girl would not be dead.....

[jessemon]

But the likelihood varies hugely from place to place. Some places are MUCH safer than other places. Copenhagen is likely safer than Mogadishu. Some cruise lines have discontinued cruises to Seychelles and Maldives due to piracy.

 

It occurs to me that the fact that they were not on a Carnival tour will leave the family with only the taxi driver to sue. The deep pockets that would have existed on a Carnival sponsored tour to the same place are denied them. I suppose the VI government, police department, the tourism bureau and even a local travel agent could get a notification at some point or other.

Sue him for what? His taxi he owes $10,000 on....:rolleyes:

[law638]

I read this post after returning from my neighborhood crime watch meeting and I am truly saddened that this is what the world has come to. What happened to the simpler times when people had respect & morals. I think we should offer our thoughts & prayers to not only the poor family involved but the world in general. People need to take responsibilty for their actions & suffer the appropriate consequences. My prayer is that everyone has a safe summer vacation & that this extends into our everyday life. Whether it be on cruise ship or on our front porches.

[nrdsb4]

Sue him for what? His taxi he owes $10,000 on....:rolleyes:

 

 

Too bad they can't sue the two gangs and hold them financially responsible for what their members have done. You know, make the ones who are actually to blame accountable rather than the ones with the deepest pockets.:rolleyes:

[paulandfran]

http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2010/07/13/double-homicide-suspect-arrested-after-turning-himself

 

Finally some good news. Thank you for the update.

 

Francie

[nothomeonacruise]

I read this post after returning from my neighborhood crime watch meeting and I am truly saddened that this is what the world has come to. What happened to the simpler times when people had respect & morals. I think we should offer our thoughts & prayers to not only the poor family involved but the world in general. People need to take responsibilty for their actions & suffer the appropriate consequences. My prayer is that everyone has a safe summer vacation & that this extends into our everyday life. Whether it be on cruise ship or on our front porches.

 

Very true!

[1cruisedoggie]

While this event is tragic, something we all need to remember, we are visiting, for the most part, third world countries,who don't have the same outlook on law and life as we do. We choose to cruise there voluntarily. I'm ex-law enforcement, and take extra cre to observe what's happening around me. We have been to St. Thomas several times, and I have never felt threatened. Sure, crime happens everywhere, acually I feel safer in St. Thomas then I do in Miami.

 

This also not a "Carnival" thing. While we choose not to sail them, this could have happened to anyone, off any ship, be it a santioned tour or not.

[paulandfran]

While this event is tragic, something we all need to remember, we are visiting, for the most part, third world countries,who don't have the same outlook on law and life as we do. We choose to cruise there voluntarily. I'm ex-law enforcement, and take extra cre to observe what's happening around me. We have been to St. Thomas several times, and I have never felt threatened. Sure, crime happens everywhere, acually I feel safer in St. Thomas then I do in Miami.

 

This also not a "Carnival" thing. While we choose not to sail them, this could have happened to anyone, off any ship, be it a santioned tour or not.

 

I hope that's not true! We're moving to Miami the end of the year.:eek:

[busybusy23]

I would be interested in seeing a poll whether people will skip St-Thomas ? I know I had all sort of plans over there and now I am just thinking to stay on the ship or go to a nearby beach at one of the big hotel (if they allow). I would not have some fun driving in a safari bus and would be worried the whole way so what's the point. How do we create a poll ? I am curious at what others will do.

[viaggi_per_mare]

We had noticed that freedom of speech and "open" press in the US is a myth. We still get an American newspaper but mostly rely on European papers for "real" news about the US. We use tourist information from Italy (written in Italian for Italians), France (written in French for the French) and British papers to research safety in the US cities and the Caribbean we travel to. It is much more accurate about how safe you are and where not to go than the US information given to Americans. There is too much politics and money wrapped up in information given here. Europe gives much more information on the crimes that happens in their cities as well as warnings that you police yourself as crimes on property are beyond what the police can deal with. Same as many US cities, except no one would say that in print here.

[luvmysox1]

I would not skip St Thomas. It is beautiful and we had such a great time on Sunny Liston tour. I will go again. This can happen anywhere, but it is still sad. Just be aware of ur surroundings.