Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger

[pe4all]

AOL news has a story on this terrible incident which stated that CCL is now "avoiding" this Coki Beach area - all excursions that went there are now cancelled. Truthfully, unless there was civil unrest or a disaster, I don't know if I would avoid an island after something like this happens. That would mean I would never be able to leave my house, as there (unfortunately) are murders/shootings/stabbings/crimes in my very safe area now and then. And for sure I wouldn't be traveling into NYC, or any other major port/city, as they all have crime. It is just unfortunate it was an inocent girl who was victimized - it should have been the shooter hit by a richochet, or something like that.

[Vanessa L]

My hometown in upstate NY (Binghamton, NY) population 55,000 was considered one of the safest places to live in the US....Two years ago a nut case walked into the Civic Association and killed 13 people and wounded 26 before shooting himself.....

Yep, it can happen anyplace.

Now back to the point of this thread...

I am glad to hear the guy in the crossfire that killed this girl turned himself in. Now the law inforcement people need to round up everyone imvoled and throw them all in jail. If they all weren't shooting at each other that girl would not be dead.....

 

I read this post after returning from my neighborhood crime watch meeting and I am truly saddened that this is what the world has come to. What happened to the simpler times when people had respect & morals. I think we should offer our thoughts & prayers to not only the poor family involved but the world in general. People need to take responsibilty for their actions & suffer the appropriate consequences. My prayer is that everyone has a safe summer vacation & that this extends into our everyday life. Whether it be on cruise ship or on our front porches.

 

 

As evidenced by the top post, simpler times are gone. Gone. Cannot come back. This is not the world we live in anymore. This is no different than people questioning why a Fortune 500 multinational company with 5 zillion employees does not care about the "little guy" like the mom and pop companies of the 50s and 60s did. Living the past vs. living in today (reality).

 

We have 2 choices here, accept that this is what the world looks like now and take the necessary precautions or, move to a cave. "Wishing" for simpler times is a pipe dream and merely takes away from doing what one needs to do to live in today.

[1cruisedoggie]

I would be interested in seeing a poll whether people will skip St-Thomas ? I know I had all sort of plans over there and now I am just thinking to stay on the ship or go to a nearby beach at one of the big hotel (if they allow). I would not have some fun driving in a safari bus and would be worried the whole way so what's the point. How do we create a poll ? I am curious at what others will do.

 

There was one on the main CC page this morning,, Poll is still there 51% say they won't skip St. Thomas,,,,

[1cruisedoggie]

I hope that's not true! We're moving to Miami the end of the year.:eek:

 

Like any other major city, you just need to be careful where you go,,

[Vanessa L]

Like any other major city, you just need to be careful where you go,,

 

And in this case, that is totally irrelevant. The group was on their way to Coki Beach, an area visited by thousands of tourists each year, both on cruise sponsored and non cruise sponsored tours. That's like saying that you'd (of course) want to be careful if you walk or ride into the known "bad side of town" but you'll be ok if you are on the "good side of town." In today's age, violence can and does happen at any place at any time. There is no such thing as "the good side of town" anymore. Gangs, crime and nuts are everywhere now, as jessemon's post so clearly showed. This was a random act of violence and anyone who thinks they are safe in their cozy little "Slice-Of-Heaven, America" are likely going to be the next victims.

[JoeFriday1]

Here is the coverage from our local fish wrap:

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/

 

Again, I make the point that this particular crime was 100% avoidable. The negligence of the Government should be called into question by not only the families of those involved but those of you who visit and spend your hard earned money on our shores.

 

The Cruise lines also need to put the pressure on.

 

The belief which exists locally that these Islands would somehow exist WITHOUT tourism is an idea based in the worst of all hubris.

 

What statement is made if the US Navy has determined that we are not safe for shore leave. Aircraft carriers used to visit here 3-4 times a year. Not anymore.

 

This is no longer "a local problem" nor has it been for some time. These Islands remain the most beautiful in this part of the Caribbean and in my opinion probably safer than others because of the American flag that flies above them....but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

To all of you still claiming, this can happen anywhere let me add this....Look at your arrest/conviction/sentencing...

 

Then look at ours...

[JoeFriday1]

This was a random act of violence

 

WHAT?

 

There was nothing "random" about this.

[Vanessa L]

WHAT?

 

There was nothing "random" about this.

 

The fact that this young girl was in the line of fire between (what appears to be) two warring gangs is about as random as it comes.

[JoeFriday1]

The fact that this young girl was in the line of fire between (what appears to be) two warring gangs is about as random as it comes.

 

Are you separating the lost lives somehow in all of this?.

 

"Appears to be"...? This was a funeral for a man gunned down less than two weeks ago. Everybody knew that. The police should have been there. Those of you familiar with the area know that this is a very narrow road. One way in, one way out. Totally manageable.

 

The intent of these people is without dispute. The exchange of gunfire proves that.

 

 

• S: (adj) random (lacking any definite plan or order or purpose; governed by or depending on chance)
  

[Senoj84]

Goodness, it shows crimes happens everywhere even on vacations. We have to always be cautious. That's very tragic for the family. :(

[okwriter]

Here is the coverage from our local fish wrap:

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/

 

Again, I make the point that this particular crime was 100% avoidable. The negligence of the Government should be called into question by not only the families of those involved but those of you who visit and spend your hard earned money on our shores.

 

The Cruise lines also need to put the pressure on.

 

The belief which exists locally that these Islands would somehow exist WITHOUT tourism is an idea based in the worst of all hubris.

 

What statement is made if the US Navy has determined that we are not safe for shore leave. Aircraft carriers used to visit here 3-4 times a year. Not anymore.

 

This is no longer "a local problem" nor has it been for some time. These Islands remain the most beautiful in this part of the Caribbean and in my opinion probably safer than others because of the American flag that flies above them....but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

To all of you still claiming, this can happen anywhere let me add this....Look at your arrest/conviction/sentencing...

 

Then look at ours...

 

JoeFriday,

I agree with you 100% and appreciate you taking time to give us an "islander's" perspective.

Your frustration is evident and completely justified.

Thanks again for at least *trying* to explain to tourists what is truly going on.

But it seem for some that unless they have lived there---or know someone who has lived there---they simply don't understand how bad it is.

[viaggi_per_mare]

Here is the coverage from our local fish wrap:

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/

 

Again, I make the point that this particular crime was 100% avoidable. The negligence of the Government should be called into question by not only the families of those involved but those of you who visit and spend your hard earned money on our shores.

 

The Cruise lines also need to put the pressure on.

 

The belief which exists locally that these Islands would somehow exist WITHOUT tourism is an idea based in the worst of all hubris.

 

What statement is made if the US Navy has determined that we are not safe for shore leave. Aircraft carriers used to visit here 3-4 times a year. Not anymore.

 

This is no longer "a local problem" nor has it been for some time. These Islands remain the most beautiful in this part of the Caribbean and in my opinion probably safer than others because of the American flag that flies above them....but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

To all of you still claiming, this can happen anywhere let me add this....Look at your arrest/conviction/sentencing...

 

Then look at ours...

 

The only difference is that prison in the US provides complete medical care for inmates on demand, the best workout and sports equipment, cable TV, movies, festivals with their families inside the the prison grounds, complete access to free legal services to sue everyone who says no to you in prison, get to cook you own food that your family can send so you do not need to eat prison food, get to wear lots of gold jewelry as long as it has a religious symbol on it, musical instruments etc....not such a punishment in the US...but they let them out early each time the go to prison...so why are US cities dangerous??

[Passenger70]

Hi All,

 

Very sad about what happened in St. Thomas. I really think it is a sign of the times. I live and work in Salt Lake City, Utah. About 3 years ago I was outside having a cigarette in front of the building at work (before I quit), and was witness to a violent gang shooting that happened in broad daylight. It left one gang member dead and needless to say, scared the crap out of me. I thought things like that only happened in the movies. The point is, I live and work in a safe neighborhood so if it can happen here, it can happen anywhere. And no, this was not the event that made me quit smoking believe it or not. :D

[guau]

When the tourists were robbed on a Carnival excursion in the Bahamas they said it was a Carnival excursion. When the cave tubing tragedy happened they said it was a Carnival excursion.

 

Not to mention...people are curious. IF they didn't say this , many would be asking "was this a Carnival excursion?"

 

Some would (wrongly) claim it was. Already people on the St Thomas board are asking "which of the tour guides was it?? Godfrey or Sunny Liston or ???"

 

the ones to blame are the gang bangers/murderers....and now just stay away from that part of the island IMHO

 

If they "pretended" this was a Carnival excursion would that make anyone feel any better?? They stopped their OWN tours to Coki and from what I read stopped all their own tours.

 

How would it be "classy" to lie or to not say?? Then we would have a bunch of sensationalist reporters saying it was a Carnival tour....in the case of fairness Carnival would have to make MORE statements and press conference to set the record straight. <sigh>

This is simply a tragedy but why blame Carnival??[/quote]

 

Yes, I understand that it's the gang bangers that are to blame for the death of the child and I never blamed Carnival for it.

 

I also never implied that Carnival should lie. However, I did find the "extra wording" they put in distasteful. If they have to make MORE statements and press conferences as you say, then so be it. That's what they have a PR department for. This is a multi-billion dollar company and I hardly think they'll go broke if they have to set the record straight in an interview or two. I'm sure due to this tragedy they will HAVE to regardless.

 

Which is why I feel the "extra" wording expressing their sentiments was unnecessary. How would you feel if you were the parent of the child that was murdered and you see a letter stating how sorry they are, and how badly they feel, and then towards the end; "Oh, and by the way, we had nothing to do with it."? In my opinion, it cheapens the whole "we feel for your loss, but let me clarify that it wasn't our fault" letter. I personally feel that their extra wording could have been used in a seperate press release for their business purposes, as opossed to the letter that was released to the passengers for sympathetical purposes.

[okwriter]

Here is the coverage from our local fish wrap:

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/

 

 

Thanks for posting that link. The second article (Former V.I. Police Sgt. George Greene refuses to admit his guilt at sentencing) is also indicative of the situation there.

[guau]

"Okay, maybe they could have released the info in a separate statement."

Exactly.

"I doubt the family is at all concerned with what was written, I am sure they are otherwise occupied."

Seriously? Really? So it wouldn't affect you in the slightest bit if this was your child and you were going through this? This family is in enough pain as it is for carnival to throw salt on the wound. The letter, though informative comes off as selfish and insincere. There is nothing wrong with what they said. I just don't feel it was the appropriate place for it, specially when it involves a loved one's death. Sorry, but death is a whole nother level as opossed to a cancellation, an itenerary change, or having some other difficulty go wrong with your trip. Save that type of letter for those situations. Whatever they are doing for the family is great. But just as they are to be commended for that, they are also to be called out on their lack of empathy at their wording.

[SunFunCruiser]

I hope that's not true! We're moving to Miami the end of the year.:eek:

 

As with any city,you will learn where to go and not to go and where you feel safe and comfortable! I love it here in Miami!! It has so much to offer :) Good luck with your move.

[Bobed1927]

"My brother and SIL lived there for a year and in that period of time my brother got robbed 5 times and my SIL 3 times. Robberies happen so often that the police don't even investigate them anymore and the robbers know that. I would never go to any of those islands."

 

I live in Oakland so I'd probably feel at home there.

[txladydi]

Read most of the posts on this thread. Just have to throw in my 2 cents.

 

First, my prayers are with the family and friends of this teen girl. Such a shame that a young life was cut short in this senseless way.

 

I sailed on the Victory in May, 2010 with my 2 adult daughters. I did all the research on all the islands - mostly here on Cruise Critic. Never once did I see anything about high crime rates in St. Thomas. Now Dominica, I got a different feel that Dominica was more dangerous, and to stay with a tour - not go walking off on our own. When we arrived in Dominica, I had that same feeling of being in a more "wild" place.

 

We went to Coki Beach, partly because it was described on threads as beautiful and relaxing. No one ever pointed out that the drive to the beach was through questionable areas, but as we got closer on our bus ride I did notice the area being not as nice. I didn't worry, because we weren't getting out of the bus. BUT when we arrived at the parking area, our driver passed us off to another guy to get us to the beach and get us chairs and an umbrella. We had to walk on a narrow sandy path, and walk by a big group of men, mostly Rastas. I was not so sure about my choice of beachs, then we got to the point of being able to see the beach and it all seemed fine. We did enjoy Coki Beach, BUT while my daughters were in the water the Rastas in the open air, covered area behind me started smoking weed. Still didn't feel threatened.

 

One daughter, her DH, and both DS are on the Victory now. Got a text from them on Monday that they couldn't go to the Marine Musuem thingy at Coki because the beach was closed. Thankfully, they were late in trying to go to this beach.

 

Some people have said the taxi driver should have known which are the "bad parts" of the island. I'm sure he does. But think about it, when you are at a port stop, do you say "Take me to a safe beach." Or do you say, "Take me to _______ Beach." You have a place picked out, you don't ask the driver's opinion; you just tell him where you want to go.

 

Gang Violence is out of control everywhere, seems St. Thomas needs to get a better handle on it. I only hope they do as this was an island I wanted to visit again.

 

Di

[sjn911]

I am shocked by the increase in crime here in the 4th largest state in the union, in a tiny town next to and serving as the the airport and other services for several outlying areas...there are about a million people in this whole state. This is much higher per capita crime..I had no idea. We all see "the Dog" Bountyhunter and get pretty big press of the issues in Hawaii in that and other ways...I think Hawaii is probably better than per capita issues being reported now in St. Thomas.

 

I care about this...and yes I am a bit slanted toward our US territories and getting to the truth...thank you so much to posters hanging in with how bad it is...had no idea. sjn

[vacruizer]

Here is the coverage from our local fish wrap:

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/

 

Again, I make the point that this particular crime was 100% avoidable. The negligence of the Government should be called into question by not only the families of those involved but those of you who visit and spend your hard earned money on our shores.

 

The Cruise lines also need to put the pressure on.

 

The belief which exists locally that these Islands would somehow exist WITHOUT tourism is an idea based in the worst of all hubris.

 

What statement is made if the US Navy has determined that we are not safe for shore leave. Aircraft carriers used to visit here 3-4 times a year. Not anymore.

 

This is no longer "a local problem" nor has it been for some time. These Islands remain the most beautiful in this part of the Caribbean and in my opinion probably safer than others because of the American flag that flies above them....but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

To all of you still claiming, this can happen anywhere let me add this....Look at your arrest/conviction/sentencing...

 

Then look at ours...

 

Thank you for your observations, Joe. I think at issue here is that most tourist perceive things as perfectly safe there and don't know the true depth of the problem. And correct me if I'm wrong, but there also seems to be some issues with corruption where the govt. looks the other way for many crimes.

 

Yes, senseless crime can happen anywere. I work in Blacksburg, VA once a week just off the Virginia Tech campus so I well know that small-town America is vulnerable. That massacre is still very fresh in the minds of anyone who lives or works there. But my odds of experiencing a crime in Blacksburg or Roanoke, VA are much less than they are in Miami or Richmond or even beautiful St. Thomas. Weigh your odds and be aware of what your risks are. I'd still go to St. Thomas just like I will Miami, but I will certainly be much more cautious and careful of where I go than I would be in a small town where I knew the area.

[sharecruises]

When the tourists were robbed on a Carnival excursion in the Bahamas they said it was a Carnival excursion. When the cave tubing tragedy happened they said it was a Carnival excursion.

 

Not to mention...people are curious. IF they didn't say this , many would be asking "was this a Carnival excursion?"

 

Some would (wrongly) claim it was. Already people on the St Thomas board are asking "which of the tour guides was it?? Godfrey or Sunny Liston or ???"

 

the ones to blame are the gang bangers/murderers....and now just stay away from that part of the island IMHO

 

If they "pretended" this was a Carnival excursion would that make anyone feel any better?? They stopped their OWN tours to Coki and from what I read stopped all their own tours.

 

How would it be "classy" to lie or to not say?? Then we would have a bunch of sensationalist reporters saying it was a Carnival tour....in the case of fairness Carnival would have to make MORE statements and press conference to set the record straight. <sigh>

 

This is simply a tragedy but why blame Carnival??[/quote]

 

Yes, I understand that it's the gang bangers that are to blame for the death of the child and I never blamed Carnival for it.

 

I also never implied that Carnival should lie. However, I did find the "extra wording" they put in distasteful. If they have to make MORE statements and press conferences as you say, then so be it. That's what they have a PR department for. This is a multi-billion dollar company and I hardly think they'll go broke if they have to set the record straight in an interview or two. I'm sure due to this tragedy they will HAVE to regardless.

 

Which is why I feel the "extra" wording expressing their sentiments was unnecessary. How would you feel if you were the parent of the child that was murdered and you see a letter stating how sorry they are, and how badly they feel, and then towards the end; "Oh, and by the way, we had nothing to do with it."? In my opinion, it cheapens the whole "we feel for your loss, but let me clarify that it wasn't our fault" letter. I personally feel that their extra wording could have been used in a seperate press release for their business purposes, as opossed to the letter that was released to the passengers for sympathetical purposes.

 

 

I think your frustration and sadness is making you think this, but it is totally a knee jerk reaction. The captain stated a fact....you reworded it to say "Oh by the way we didn't have anything to do with it"...that is just your wording, not his. I think people have found this to "pick" on Carnival

 

People..and the media...are nosy. By putting out the facts in his letter, the Captain rightfully stopped further speculation and rumours.

[sharecruises]

in early July , a 17 year old kid was killed in a drive by in North Miami

then at his funeral, on July 3, there was a drive by at the Church in North Miami, a man was killed and a woman seriously wounded right at his funeral

 

That didn't make the news..you may have driven by that area on the turnpike or 95 with out a thought or a care in the world on your way to the Port of Miami

[fin]

We had noticed that freedom of speech and "open" press in the US is a myth. We still get an American newspaper but mostly rely on European papers for "real" news about the US. We use tourist information from Italy (written in Italian for Italians), France (written in French for the French) and British papers to research safety in the US cities and the Caribbean we travel to. It is much more accurate about how safe you are and where not to go than the US information given to Americans. There is too much politics and money wrapped up in information given here. Europe gives much more information on the crimes that happens in their cities as well as warnings that you police yourself as crimes on property are beyond what the police can deal with. Same as many US cities, except no one would say that in print here.

 

It seems a whole lot easier to use the internet for all manner of news from all over the world, and spare a bunch of trees.

[Kurbanfan]

in early July , a 17 year old kid was killed in a drive by in North Miami

then at his funeral, on July 3, there was a drive by at the Church in North Miami, a man was killed and a woman seriously wounded right at his funeral

 

That didn't make the news..you may have driven by that area on the turnpike or 95 with out a thought or a care in the world on your way to the Port of Miami

 

Just like you don't hear about all the killings on the Islands...unless it was a tourist........If that 17 year old kid was a tourist it would be all over the news........makes sense to me....