Service Charges..... Tipping????

[Don Haynes]

I guess I will never understand how someone can book a two-week cruise for four people and not expect to pay many hundreds of dollars in gratuities. Don't these people ever eat in a restaurant? Don't they know to tip the housekeeper in a hotel when they vacation? Why would they think it's any different on a cruise ship?

 

They are the very same people who stiffed the cruise ship's crews before, and still wish to do so after the cruise lines created a new method with more simplicity and ease than the old fashioned traditional way created by Samuel Cunard in the nineteenth century...

 

You are totally correct, they should know. But the stiffers avoid paying hundreds of dollars for their weeklong stays at hotels too. Now they have to show up at the desk to have their surcharges removed whereas before they just didn't tip. For some reason many are embarrassed going to the naughty room, but aren't embarrassed by going to the front desk...

 

The stiffers will come up with a million and one reasons why they won't tip, all of them red herrings, and refuse to admit one reason why they should...

[erdoran]

I'm not sure what you're griping about. Explaining the DSC is what we do every time this subject is raised. The problem is that too many of the people starting the thread don't respond by simply saying "oh, now I understand--no problem," they come back with a zillion contrived reasons why they still don't want to pay it.

 

I guess I will never understand how someone can book a two-week cruise for four people and not expect to pay many hundreds of dollars in gratuities. Don't these people ever eat in a restaurant? Don't they know to tip the housekeeper in a hotel when they vacation? Why would they think it's any different on a cruise ship?[/quote]

 

I didn't hear OP come back with any reasons not to pay it, there was more of an "oh, now I understand, no problem" response by my recollection.

 

Perhaps if we explained it WITHOUT the inevitable assumption that the OP is looking for excuses NOT to pay, and posters saved the insults until there was a clear statement of non-intent to pay, it might be more constructive. And don't assume people EXPECT to tip on a cruise if they are first-time cruisers. Every vacation mode (and often provider) is different and has different tipping expectations. Let's try EDUCATING first and applying "innocent until proven guilty" rather than the various regulars coming in with their random potshots, popcorn, dead horses and wings.

 

Just because WE have heard the question and discussion millions of times does NOT mean the person asking the question has. And it is absolutely legitimate to be upset when learning AFTER booking that you are on the hook for hundreds of dollars more than budgeted. Someone new to travel does NOT necessarily expect to tip above and beyond cruise fare (because meals are included, rather than having a dollar amount to tip on) any more than they realize they are expected to tip the hotel staff other than for restaurant & bar orders. Instead of making statements like you just have made above, cut them a break and educate them! How else does someone learn? It's unfair to say they SHOULD know to tip, some people legitimately don't know. Your answer is "well, they should do their research & learn"--I agree, and that's why they are on Cruise Critic, right?

[erdoran]

They are the very same people who stiffed the cruise ship's crews before, and still wish to do so after the cruise lines created a new method with more simplicity and ease than the old fashioned traditional way created by Samuel Cunard in the nineteenth century...

 

You are totally correct, they should know. But the stiffers avoid paying hundreds of dollars for their weeklong stays at hotels too. Now they have to show up at the desk to have their surcharges removed whereas before they just didn't tip. For some reason many are embarrassed going to the naughty room, but aren't embarrassed by going to the front desk...

 

The stiffers will come up with a million and one reasons why they won't tip, all of them red herrings, and refuse to admit one reason why they should...

 

If someone is a stiffer or is looking for reasons to justify stiffing the crew, then they'd be crazy to post on here looking for support from the masses, right?

 

Try assuming someone simply DOESN'T know what tipping expectations are, and instead of just removing the DSC BECAUSE THEY CAN DO EXACTLY THAT, they are trying to understand why they are being charged this $$$ with the thought of "it's probably legitimate, but I want to better understand it before making a decision". Perhaps they are thinking that they are EXPECTED to tip IN ADDITION to the DSC, and are making sure that by paying the DSC they are not double-tipping? What's wrong with that?

 

When DH and I cruised Carnival last winter it was the first time we had been exposed to the DSC. I had been greeted with envelopes for $300+ in tips during prior cruises (which I paid!) and I certainly wanted to know whether or not I'd still be getting the $300 envelope treatment. Perhaps others have the same question, or simply have never cruised before so don't know how to tip appropriately!

[Don Haynes]

Just because WE have heard the question and discussion millions of times does NOT mean the person asking the question has. And it is absolutely legitimate to be upset when learning AFTER booking that you are on the hook for hundreds of dollars more than budgeted. Someone new to travel does NOT necessarily expect to tip above and beyond cruise fare (because meals are included, rather than having a dollar amount to tip on) any more than they realize they are expected to tip the hotel staff other than for restaurant & bar orders.

 

Oh, I was under the impression all of US knew if you won/earned a free meal at any restaurant in the USA you were still expected to tip the waiters and bar tenders. And when I was a traveling salesman we knew tips came from our own pockets, not the business we were working for... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D

[erdoran]

Oh, I was under the impression all of US knew if you won/earned a free meal at any restaurant in the USA you were still expected to tip the waiters and bar tenders. And when I was a traveling salesman we knew tips came from our own pockets, not the business we were working for... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D

 

Some of us are stupid enough to believe that the tip is included in the thousands of dollars already paid for the cruise fare. DH and I stay at an all-inclusive resort and an 18% gratuity for the entire stay is included in what we pay up front so we are not expected to tip for the included meals, just for extra cost items.

 

Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you are, Don. Some folks on this board have never traveled in their lives and don't have a clue! Others are accustomed to envelope tipping and might think the DSC is IN ADDITION TO the envelopes. Cut the new posters a break and assume they are doing the right thing by asking, not looking for excuses to stiff the crew. You might be surprised!

[Don Haynes]

Some of us are stupid enough to believe that the tip is included in the thousands of dollars already paid for the cruise fare. DH and I stay at an all-inclusive resort and an 18% gratuity for the entire stay is included in what we pay up front so we are not expected to tip for the included meals, just for extra cost items.

 

Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you are, Don. Some folks on this board have never traveled in their lives and don't have a clue! Others are accustomed to envelope tipping and might think the DSC is IN ADDITION TO the envelopes. Cut the new posters a break and assume they are doing the right thing by asking, not looking for excuses to stiff the crew. You might be surprised!

 

I agree with you, some are asking legitimate questions. But its doesn't take long for a thread to mention the word remove, instead of reducing or adjusting the surcharge...

 

In this case the OP mentioned the word remove... There is a HUGE difference from reducing and adjusting to remove... :D:D:D

[RichNY]

Erdoran

Great comments....:):):)...they probably wont sink in but you gave it shot..nice job !!!

[erdoran]

I agree with you, some are asking legitimate questions. But its doesn't take long for a thread to mention the word remove, instead of reducing or adjusting the surcharge...

 

In this case the OP mentioned the word remove... There is a HUGE difference from reducing and adjusting to remove... :D:D:D

 

What is wrong about ASKING about removing if someone truly doesn't know or understand? At that time people like you can jump in and explain why it is wrong to remove, reduce, or adjust the DSC, reiterate that this is INSTEAD of envelopes & no add'l tipping is required (except for extra cost stuff, butler, etc) therefore you should not remove it.

 

If someone insists on removing AFTER all the information is provided then that's another situation and that qualifies as "stiffing"--but just asking about removing shouldn't qualify them as stiffers. In fact, it's good that they DO ask because then it can be explained why they shouldn't do that.

[sottovoce]

 

I didn't hear OP come back with any reasons not to pay it, there was more of an "oh, now I understand, no problem" response by my recollection.

In fact, the OP NEVER came back to say thank you, or to acknowledge the many responses. If you would read what I wrote with any degree of care, you'd see that I wrote "every time this subject is raised...The problem is that too many of the people starting the thread don't respond by simply saying "oh, now I understand--no problem..." I said nothing specifically about the OP, who never came back...period. It would seem to me if you ask for help from people here, you would be polite enough to acknowledge it when you get it.

[Don Haynes]

What is wrong about ASKING about removing if someone truly doesn't know or understand? At that time people like you can jump in and explain why it is wrong to remove, reduce, or adjust the DSC, reiterate that this is INSTEAD of envelopes & no add'l tipping is required (except for extra cost stuff, butler, etc) therefore you should not remove it.

 

If someone insists on removing AFTER all the information is provided then that's another situation and that qualifies as "stiffing"--but just asking about removing shouldn't qualify them as stiffers. In fact, it's good that they DO ask because then it can be explained why they shouldn't do that.

 

Why rock the boat? The cruise lines have implemented an easier, fair and simple system which requires practically no effort...

 

REMOVING the daily surcharge takes much, much, much more effort EVEN if you intend to use the tipping envelopes and be your own distributor...

 

So why rock the boat? There is NO legitimate logical reason to REMOVE the surcharge... Illogical maybe, but NO legitimate logical reasons.... All are red herrings...

 

I wanted to add I do not consider stiffing the crew a legitimate logical reason...

[erdoran]

Why rock the boat? The cruise lines have implemented an easier, fair and simple system which requires practically no effort...

 

REMOVING the daily surcharge takes much, much, much more effort EVEN if you intend to use the tipping envelopes and be your own distributor...

 

So why rock the boat? There is NO legitimate logical reason to REMOVE the surcharge... Illogical maybe, but NO legitimate logical reasons.... All are red herrings...

 

I agree there is no reason to remove the DSC, I am not saying there is. I am not justifying removing the charge at all!

 

I am saying that until an explanation is given someone may not understand there are no more envelopes, or why the DSC is NOT optional or discretionary, IN SPITE OF WHAT NCL TELLS THEM! Remember that the website says they can remove it!!!

 

Let them ask. Tell them the envelopes won't appear in their cabin. Tell them the other reasons to pay the DSC. See what they say. Chances are they will appreciate the information and pay the DSC.

[Don Haynes]

I agree there is no reason to remove the DSC, I am not saying there is. I am not justifying removing the charge at all!

 

I am saying that until an explanation is given someone may not understand there are no more envelopes, or why the DSC is NOT optional or discretionary, IN SPITE OF WHAT NCL TELLS THEM! Remember that the website says they can remove it!!!

 

Let them ask. Tell them the envelopes won't appear in their cabin. Tell them the other reasons to pay the DSC. See what they say. Chances are they will appreciate the information and pay the DSC.

 

Unfortunately the NCL website states the reasons why there is a daily surcharge. I have yet to read better anywhere else. And these folks who post can find the NCL website far more easily with their internet search software than Cruise Critics' website...

 

I am not naive... Another red herring...

[jame_g]

If someone is a stiffer or is looking for reasons to justify stiffing the crew, then they'd be crazy to post on here looking for support from the masses, right?

 

And sadly that is exactly what happens here at least a couple times a month. Once the process and reasons are politely explained (by some anyway), the OP comes back and gives excuses for attempting to remove the DSC and stiffing the staff. Then they disappear, or when rebutted start getting argumentative about why they are justified removing the DSC.

 

Not arguing with someone asking to clarify the process and receiving a reasonable response.

[Don Haynes]

Even at the Cruise Critic front page, there is a link to this page under Planning at the top of the Cruise Critic front page...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=265

 

If new cruisers can find Cruise Critic they can find this link...

 

Keep in mind the OP of this thread used her 32nd post to ask this question... The OP wasn't a first time poster asking their first few questions... The OP had to go through the trouble to register, and surely read a lot of threads to post their 32nd post...

[erdoran]

Unfortunately the NCL website states the reasons why there is a daily surcharge. I have yet to read better anywhere else. And these folks who post can find the NCL website far more easily with their internet search software than Cruise Critics' website...

 

I am not naive... Another red herring...

 

Well, I personally found this website MUCH more instructive than NCL's--and remember that the NCL website states the DSC is discretionary and can be removed. Why shouldn't someone ask if it can be removed, based on that statement? From reading what NCL says, I wouldn't take it as an awful thing to do; however, from reading CC I've learned how it impacts crew pay and now just consider it as part of the cost of cruising.

 

Please don't criticize people not "getting it" from the NCL material; it's written to soft-pedal the fact that pax will be paying hundreds more than planned. Instead, educate people.

 

As far as people not coming back to thank people for informing them, usually a thread of this nature contains multiple posts talking about stiffers, some accusing OPs of looking for excuses not to pay. I don't blame people for ignoring these threads and not coming back.

[Ms belp]

 

LOL!:D:p

[sottovoce]

Let them ask. Tell them the envelopes won't appear in their cabin. Tell them the other reasons to pay the DSC. See what they say. Chances are they will appreciate the information and pay the DSC.

For the last time: On this thread, she asked. She was answered many times. She disappeared, not once acknowledging the responses. I still don't see what you are whining about. What happened in this thread is exactly what you described above--except she never said anything in response. No one is objecting to people "asking."

 

I suggest you read jame_g's posting above--several times. Maybe then you'll get it.

[erdoran]

For the last time: On this thread, she asked. She was answered many times. She disappeared, not once acknowledging the responses. I still don't see what you are whining about. What happened in this thread is exactly what you described above--except she never said anything in response. No one is objecting to people "asking."

 

I suggest you read jame_g's posting above--several times. Maybe then you'll get it.

 

sotto voce, I take exception to "whining". I'm as entitled to my point of view as you are to yours. Don't characterize it as whining, it isn't.

 

 

OTOH, if I posted how I wasn't going to pay the DSC and got gang-flamed, then complained about the nasty names I was called--THAT would be whining!

[sottovoce]

sotto voce, I take exception to "whining". I'm as entitled to my point of view as you are to yours. Don't characterize it as whining, it isn't.

My "point of view" is that you are whining. You have complained over and over on this thread about something that just hasn't happened. The OP has had her question answered over and over and over, just as you say her question should have been answered, from every angle imaginable. I really don't understand how it can be that you don't recognize that.

[erdoran]

I wasn't clear--I wasn't just talking about this thread, but the general behavior I've observed from my point of view on CC. I didn't even necessarily mean OP for this specific thread, I mean IN GENERAL on this board--I've seen it again and again and again where someone asks a legitimate, innocent question and before they post again they get accused of cheapness, crew-stiffing, looking for excuses, etc, etc---along with the inevitable popcorn & wings from those who have seen it all hundreds of times.

 

However--you are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Let's agree to disagree, and put the dead horse to bed. It's enough already.

[newmexicoNita]

It's a dead horse for the CC regulars but let's remember there are new people joining all the time who DON'T KNOW as much as CC regulars, and to whom the whole DSC does come as a surprise...and yes, $400 or $796 IS sticker shock, as OP stated! There is nothing wrong with asking about it, having the explanation about what the DSC really is and how it is probably less than they would tip if they were dining out for all those meals, staying in a fancy resort, etc......

 

How else do people "get it" about the DSC except by doing their homework/research, and CC is one place to do just that. So please put away the popcorn, bury the dead horses, and just explain to those who have the decency to ask rather than trying to remove the DSC. After all, isn't that the goal of the rather vocal posters about DSC, to have people understand that it is part of their fare and as optional as port charges and taxes are?

 

yes, there is nothing wrong about asking, but most people, whether reg here or new cruisers should be reading the Q and A section from cruise lines or whatever and most should realize, unless they are clueless some form of tipping is expected.

 

Nita

[Globaliser]

I've seen it again and again and again where someone asks a legitimate, innocent question and before they post again they get accused of cheapness, crew-stiffing, looking for excuses, etc, etc---along with the inevitable popcorn & wings from those who have seen it all hundreds of times.

I think it's generous-spirited of you to want to help those who might be asking the question innocently. And I think that these threads are best when the straight answer is given early to see whether that OP is one of those who will say "Oh, I see - thank you", and then left alone in either event.

 

But it's not difficult to understand the frustration of CC regulars who see that this is perhaps a 1 in 100 occurrence. The other 99 do seem to be people who just want to pay less than the service charge amount, and the worst of course are those who lie about it, but badly enough that we can all see through it.

 

This OP seemed to have flagged it all up in the first post. "Sticker shock" about $432 indicates someone who was obviously not prepared to tip that much by way of discretionary tipping, even though that's what the cruise line would be recommending if there were no service charge.

[sparks1093]

that the NCL website states the DSC is discretionary and can be removed.

 

Actually, NCL does not use the term discretionary. This is what the webiste says:

 

"If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?

Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board reception desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges."

 

Importantly it does not say that it's discretionary, and it says that the charges may be adjusted.

[minnesotalady]

Hey everyone, read some of the post on this issue. Isn't that call gratuties? That is what I know and pay them. Never had service so bad that I would attempt to remove them! I tip over that to those that deserve it. So what is the issue, a little confused?

[luddite]

Hey everyone, read some of the post on this issue. Isn't that call gratuties? That is what I know and pay them. Never had service so bad that I would attempt to remove them! I tip over that to those that deserve it. So what is the issue, a little confused?

 

Not gratuities. A daily service charge. Loose translation? It's the crew's pay.