P&O Suck

[Debsta]

Yeah....they do :mad:

 

I WAS trying to book two cabins for the 18th December Xmas cruise on Pacific Jewel. One cabin for me and my 18 yo son, and the other for my 21 yo son and his 20 yo girlfriend. I've spoken to a few cruise TA's and because of their schoolies rule they won't budge as she is not my dependent so needs to share my cabin. Now I thought I could get around it by booking one triple and one single but then I'm paying for an extra person who ain't travelling. The TA's have already had others complain who have also rung P&O and they still won't budge. Pathetic excuse considering it's a Xmas cruise and I WILL BE THERE! If we booked a post 01 January there's no problem...go figure......I'm vewy vewy vewy annoyed :mad:

 

Looks like Rhapsody here we come :D I guess all the P&O rejects will be on board anyway LOL

[sherri3802]

What if you booked the cabins as you first intended, but just put the girl's name as your cabin mate and your boys for the other cabin.

The actual sleeping arrangements wouldn't have to be that way once you arrived, I can't see any of the cabin cleaners kicking up a fuss if your cabins are next to each other or even if they're not!

I have heard of other people who book cabins where there are eg 2 minors and they have to put down that a parent is in each room but when on the cruise, the two teens end up sharing. I guess a blind eye may be turned if the teens themselves are well behaved and quiet and are seen to be supervised.

All the same, I suppose it is a bit of a risk, you don't want trouble with your booking.

I thought schoolies week was in November some time?

 

I can understand P&O being careful though, because they are sometimes cheaper cruises, they appeal to the young and P&O probably are really nervous about teen groups on board.

[Debsta]

What if you booked the cabins as you first intended, but just put the girl's name as your cabin mate and your boys for the other cabin.

The actual sleeping arrangements wouldn't have to be that way once you arrived, I can't see any of the cabin cleaners kicking up a fuss if your cabins are next to each other or even if they're not!

I have heard of other people who book cabins where there are eg 2 minors and they have to put down that a parent is in each room but when on the cruise, the two teens end up sharing. I guess a blind eye may be turned if the teens themselves are well behaved and quiet and are seen to be supervised.

All the same, I suppose it is a bit of a risk, you don't want trouble with your booking.

I thought schoolies week was in November some time?

 

I can understand P&O being careful though, because they are sometimes cheaper cruises, they appeal to the young and P&O probably are really nervous about teen groups on board.

 

Hi Sherrie

 

I understand their schoolies reasoning. Schoolies runs from end of November to mid December (depending on your State). I don't understand if there is an adult present who is booking, paying and going to be present (so I can't put down two parents.....yet more discrimination for the single parent :p) what the big deal is, just because I'm not sleeping in the cabin. I can't put my 18 yo in with his 21 yo brother either according to them as the 18 yo also needs to be in my cabin.....apparently his 21 yo brother doesn't qualify as a parent LOL, and yes, it's not worth the risk.

 

Anyway, I've seen so-called adults behave far worse than schoolies anyway :p

 

I'm just venting and frustrated.......I'll get over it :D

[Sandielle]

I can understand your frustration Deb, and am so sorry your plans have been scuttled.

 

I guess P&O are so strict about these rules because they've had their fingers severely burnt over 'schoolies' and the Brimble case in the past. Now everyone 'pays the price' of not being able to please themselves with sleeping arrangements and not even a bottle of wine can be taken on board.

 

You would think they could 'cut a few holes (sorry, I'm not a technical person :rolleyes:) between cabins and make some adjoining, to benefit families, wouldn't you?

 

Hope you can find something else and have a great Christmas! :)

[Rasa Sayang]

Hi Deb,

 

I can understand your anger at this discrimination - and thats what it is - discrimination.

 

I can also understand why P&O do it, but in my mind I feel they might be bending [or even breaking] Australian law a wee bit.

 

Here is the clause in their terms and conditions:

 

For departures between 1 November and 31 December, any passenger under the age of 21 years on the day they board the cruise, must travel in the same cabin as their parent/guardian.

 

Now, I'll admit that my reasoning may be a bit simplistic, but I think that flies in the face of the "Age Discrimination Act of 2004".

 

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/about/legislation/index.html#Age

 

The full act is here:

 

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/0/F2D169F4E1A9E925CA2576E200126ECD/$file/AgeDiscrimAct2004_WD02.pdf

 

And the section I think that applies in your case is as follows [taken from the above link]

 

Section 27

24 Age Discrimination Act 2004

27 Access to premises

It is unlawful for a person to discriminate against another person

on the ground of the other person’s age:

(a) by refusing to allow the other person access to, or the use of,

any premises that the public or a section of the public is

entitled or allowed to enter or use (whether for payment or

not); or

(b) in the terms or conditions on which the first-mentioned

person is prepared to allow the other person access to, or the

use of, any such premises; or

© in relation to the provision of means of access to such

premises; or

(d) by refusing to allow the other person the use of any facilities

in such premises that the public or a section of the public is

entitled or allowed to use (whether for payment or not); or

(e) in the terms or conditions on which the first-mentioned

person is prepared to allow the other person the use of any

such facilities; or

(f) by requiring the other person to leave such premises or cease

to use such facilities.

28 Goods, services and facilities

It is unlawful for a person who, whether for payment or not,

provides goods or services, or makes facilities available, to

discriminate against another person on the ground of the other

person’s age:

(a) by refusing to provide the other person with those goods or

services or to make those facilities available to the other

person; or

(b) in the terms or conditions on which the first-mentioned

person provides the other person with those goods or services

or makes those facilities available to the other person; or

© in the manner in which the first-mentioned person provides

the other person with those goods or services or makes those

facilities available to the other person.

 

With regard to premises in sec 27, I believe a ship could be regarded as premises, and in section 28, the purchase of a sea passage would come under the area of goods services & facilities.

 

I may be barking up the wrong tree but I think a complaint to this government department may be in order:

 

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/complaints_information/lodging.html

 

You have nothing to lose, and maybe it might just pull P&O into line a bit on the issue.

 

As I said, I understand why P&O feels it needs to take this type of action, but this is age discrimination if ever there was.

 

And anyway, the last I heard, anybody over 18 is legally an adult in this country.

 

There is an old saying which goes: "Dont just get angry - get EVEN!!!!" :D:p

[Australian family]

That is a strict ruling by P&O, you are classed as being of age at 18.

 

I agree with Dennis, Get even with P&O, as from what I am reading that is discrimination.

 

ps, love your saying Dennis, see Qld before Anna sells it!

[rugbypopsie]

I also think this is an unreasonably strict policy...I understand the problems with "schoolies" it could be an unpleasant holiday with a bunch of unescorted, unrestrained, teenagers running rampant. In this case it is pretty petty...you are with them they are not unescorted. Unless I am mistaken at 18 you can, get married, enlist in the services, go to war, make babies but you can't be in a cabin across the hall from your mother!

 

In the sad case of Mrs. Brimble I seem to recall that disaster involved a bunch of so called "responsible" adults well past the age of 21.

 

Surely there has to be some middle ground.

 

There also should be some reserved place in hell for unreasonable "ex's".

 

[Sandielle]

 

ps, love your saying Dennis, see Qld before Anna sells it!

 

Oh, I didn't notice that before! Love it! Will have to put it as my email sig.

[K-Roo-Zers]

Oh, I didn't notice that before! Love it! Will have to put it as my email sig.

 

Couldn't agree more and I reside here in Queensland, now known as Beautiful One Day - Gone the Next!! Forget about Beautiful One Day, Perfect the Next!!

 

Sorry Debsta, can't help you as I have never sailed P&O but I noticed we were both on the Diamond Princess from Bangkok to Sydney last year. It was a great cruise!!

 

Good luck with your endeavours. If all else fails, try Princess IMHO a far superior option!!

 

Nicki

[Australian family]

Oh, I didn't notice that before! Love it! Will have to put it as my email sig.

 

We might be railed out!!

[The_Big_M]

Actually, the above has been done before.

 

P&O applied for an exemption from anti-discrimination laws, but the Human Rights commission rejected their application in November last year. However, P&O maintain the necessity of their approach so have kept the rules in effect (and so have not accepted the commission's decision).

[Dizziedi]

Why travel P&O?

[cruisin-m]

It is blatant age discrimination, in Australia you are officially an "adult" at 18 there is no reason they should be able to turn down anyone under 21.

 

It is just stupid, under 21 couples can't cruise majority of the summer because P&O think they going to lessen their image.

Majority of the cruises I've been on it's the middle aged folks that really get wild, generally speaking the younger people have a good time but they don't bother anyone or get unruly.

 

As for schoolies, it's only 3 weeks long and I think they could just strictly enforce a "no schoolies" policy, that whilst still age discrimination in a minor way is acceptable.

 

What do late december cruises have anything to do with younger people going anyway, it's the same as the rest of the year.

[Aus Traveller]

It is blatant age discrimination, in Australia you are officially an "adult" at 18 there is no reason they should be able to turn down anyone under 21.

 

It is just stupid, under 21 couples can't cruise majority of the summer because P&O think they going to lessen their image.

Majority of the cruises I've been on it's the middle aged folks that really get wild, generally speaking the younger people have a good time but they don't bother anyone or get unruly.

 

As for schoolies, it's only 3 weeks long and I think they could just strictly enforce a "no schoolies" policy, that whilst still age discrimination in a minor way is acceptable.

 

What do late december cruises have anything to do with younger people going anyway, it's the same as the rest of the year.

The age restrictions apply for two months (Nov & Dec), not the "majority of the summer".

 

I believe this policy followed a number of cruises where some groups of young people misbehaved by throwing deck chairs etc. overboard and totally spoiling the cruise for other passengers. I don't think any of us would like to be on a cruise where this was happening.

 

We have examples of young people 'letting their hair down' each year with Schoolies Week(s) at the Gold Coast where extra police are brought in as well as volunteers to try to keep the young people safe. Unfortunately, there is much more potential for problems on a cruise ship than at the Gold Coast.

 

Obviously not all young people would behave like this and it is unfortunate that the policy applies to them as well as the potentially unruly ones. But, the problem is, how could anyone tell beforehand which passengers would cause major problems? :) It seems that P & O have tried to do this by having a policy where a parent/guardian has to share the cabin with a person under 21 during Nov/Dec.

 

In my opinion, this isn't a perfect answer to the problem, but I don't know if there would be a better one.

[Shiprobbo]

Rules are rules and if P&O wish to impose a restriction that in their experience is for the benefit of the majority, then so be it. I fully agree that often it is not the 18-21 year olds who are the problem, however there were a number of issues some years ago and for this reason P&O pulically stated a policy that would apply to the period that was covered by 'schoolies', I would suggest that this was extended to cover the New Years cruise as well as this is also likely to attract potential problems.

 

As far as age discrimination, I don't think so. P&O have not refused to accept the booking, just stated that the person under 21 can not be accomodated in a cabin with a person over 21. The expectation is that an older person is supposed to be more mature in attitude and show a greater sense of responsibility....not always the case I agree.

 

Please don't think that age restrictions just apply to this particular age group either. Each of the P&O (and Princess) ships have limits on the catergories of children that they will carry so that the children's facilities are not overrun. They don't budge in this regard either, even if the child is a few days short of their birthday at the commencement of the cruise.

 

As stated at the start, rules are rules and they are there to ensure that everyone is given the opportunity of a good holiday. P&O state the booking terms and conditions in regards the age restrictions on these cruises in their brochure so a little research before hand would have ensured that the problem did not arise.

 

As for sailing on Raphsody of the Seas, what is their policy on age for drinking? In many states in the US the legal age is 21.....so the 20 year old may have problems there too.

 

David

[Shiprobbo]

just stated that the person under 21 can not be accomodated in a cabin with a person over 21.

 

 

Oops, meant to say can only be accomodated in a cabin with a person over 21.

 

One of those days!!

[cruisin-m]

The age restrictions apply for two months (Nov & Dec), not the "majority of the summer".

 

I believe this policy followed a number of cruises where some groups of young people misbehaved by throwing deck chairs etc. overboard and totally spoiling the cruise for other passengers. I don't think any of us would like to be on a cruise where this was happening.

 

We have examples of young people 'letting their hair down' each year with Schoolies Week(s) at the Gold Coast where extra police are brought in as well as volunteers to try to keep the young people safe. Unfortunately, there is much more potential for problems on a cruise ship than at the Gold Coast.

 

Obviously not all young people would behave like this and it is unfortunate that the policy applies to them as well as the potentially unruly ones. But, the problem is, how could anyone tell beforehand which passengers would cause major problems? :) It seems that P & O have tried to do this by having a policy where a parent/guardian has to share the cabin with a person under 21 during Nov/Dec.

 

In my opinion, this isn't a perfect answer to the problem, but I don't know if there would be a better one.

 

I realise it isn't "majority of summer", my bad it is only 1/3 months, what I was trying to say is that a lot of the peak cruising season is included in this blockout.

 

Schoolies is only 1 week in NSW and 3 weeks in its absolute total with one week that doesn't really exist as it is for WA so why not select specific cruises included at these dates.

 

As for NYE cruise, I think it's safe to say most age groups have a real good time so to say.

 

The melbourne cup cruise is a good example of encouraging a partying cruise as opposed to holidaying yet there are no age restrictions on this one.

 

It's just my opinion but I think it was a quick fix bandaid solution to the bad reputation they ascertained a fair few years back for what probably had nothing to do with 18-21 year olds, it was just a recommendation by their public relations department to clean the image up.

 

Let me be the first to say I would hate to be surrounded by annoying schoolies, I just fail to see what stopping your average 20 yr old will do on a cruise in mid december.

 

RCI you need one person over 21 and a signed letter from a guardian to drink under 21, because they maintain their age limits as they do have a decent amount of US pax. So they do have a much more relaxed policy, probably a smarter one as it prevents schoolies without blatantly blocking every person under 21.

[PolarPeak]

I'd be taking my money somewhere else too. P & O have left me with a bad impression after my last cruise with them.

Alternatively I guess you could book a quad cabin?

[Debsta]

Interesting feedback. I feel better now :D Although I'd love to go them for the whole age discrimination thing on a XMAS CRUISE! I don't have the time nor the energy to battle such rubbish.

 

I've booked Rhapsody instead just out of sheer spite :p. I would have booked Princess but I don't want to go to NZ again. The 21 and 20 year old can't come on the January cruise I just booked though :(.

 

To add salt to the wound, after ringing P&O and begging for mercy and them basically saying SO SAD TOO BAD :mad:.....the online TA who I had originally put the cabins on hold (and didn't pay deposit) rang today to quiz me re my 18 year old son in my cabin, and whether or not I was his parent. I suggested (nicely to her - it's not her fault) to ring P&O and tell them what to do with their cabin/s :eek: :D

 

She said P&O are going through every booking to ensure no under 21's are in a cabin without a parent.

 

Never say never, but P&O have lost my business (not that they really had it anyway LOL)

[suey]

Just reading through these posts, twice I have booked my teenage grandson in my cabin while his mother is in a different cabin with other family members, when he was 16 and now 17. Both times we have been questioned and told it couldn't happen but they saw sense and allowed it. I just explained that he was in a cabin with his grandmother, great grandmother and great aunt - the poor kid deserves their sympathy - not much he can get up to.:D

[rugbypopsie]

Just reading through these posts, twice I have booked my teenage grandson in my cabin while his mother is in a different cabin with other family members, when he was 16 and now 17. Both times we have been questioned and told it couldn't happen but they saw sense and allowed it. I just explained that he was in a cabin with his grandmother, great grandmother and great aunt - the poor kid deserves their sympathy - not much he can get up to.:D

I'm guessing then you are over 21:) What the ideal answer would be more family cabins i.e. with an adjoining door to join the two cabins together. Other ships have them.