TSA Pat Downs???

[LemurCat]

I'll weigh in here ... I am subjected at least weekly to "random" bag checks by the NYPD when taking the subway (and when I say random, I mean it in the most dripping in sarcasm way possible, as I am usually the person they use to ensure there is no claims of racial profiling). I'm not bothered by this in the least. I *am* bothered by the TSA screening process, based on the fact that the technology isn't proven and it's just a little on the obtrusive side for me. Saying that they're keeping us safe because nothing has happened is a strawman. Saying that they're keeping us safe because we can document x, y, and z occurrances is something no scanner can claim. And that's not even getting into the whole privacy rights argument.

[madge57]

The last time I flew I was coming back from FLL. Since I had a sweatshirt on and it was baggy they said the needed to pat me down. Snce I didn't have t-shirt under my sweatshirt they said it was necessary. It was no big deal in fact the lady and I was joking about it. Not that it was a joke but that I like it too much!! I asked if she would do it again but she said that I was ok to go. Darn!!!

[kbmeow]

Sincere question: So what do these other countries that you speak of do differently? I've had to go through metal detectors at every airport I've traveled from-I've never refused, so I don't really know what they would do at that point.

 

 

Your right on the metal detector, But lets talk about someone who has a prosthetic and goes threw it. They set it off. He has never been pulled out of line, sat in a holding area, patted down, Asked to take off his leg, swabbed for explosives, etc.. And this would be , london, shannon, rome, Dublin, are where I am talking about.

 

What I Didn't mentioned is he works for the DOT, he flies at least once a month for work, on many a time they try and separate him from his laptop. They do not bring your bags to you unless you ask. And even then they get huffy. Only when he pulls out his badge and says it is a govt laptop will they agree to get his bags.

 

Yes we are used to it. If we fly together I take all the bags etc. I will always do the security screening, never refuse, not worth the issue. We always comply but, It is getting extreme and there is no proof it works.

 

And we have been followed by a air Marshall on a flight because he refused to take his leg off in the middle of a airport. I asked the person if they would ask a woman with a prosthetic breast to take it =off they said " no that wouldn't be right" I was like it is no different that a leg. People who are missing body parts are sensitive to that stuff. I was then told. Shut-up or you will have to do the screening too!! I said go for it. And the person left me alone.

[hftmrock]

for all the people upset at the procedure and are saying they are not going to fly until it changes...

 

what would you like it changed to? No checking??? Would you really fly on a plane where no one on the plane was checked?

 

If there were 15 airlines and 1 of those airlines had a policy for all the people that didnt want their freedoms to be infringed that they will not do any security checks on the people (They will still check the bags unless you think that is an envasion too)

 

You would fly on that airline? Dont you think Every terrorist would fly that too?

 

the measures might or moght not be working but I will say it is my opinion that the policies in place are making it harder for terrorists to blow up planes... Will they find a way.. yeah, probably but will it be as easy as it was prior to 9/11? No

 

I wonder if the families of the people who were killed on 9/11 care that there is extra layers of security? I wonder if a widow or a father that lost his children on 9/11 is screaming about his freedoms because of the extra screenings..

 

So tell me what is the solution for all the people that think this is so offensive to your freedoms?

 

By the way.. the 4th amendment has an exception clause that would fit this.

[kbmeow]

Problems is, it won't. All this dog and pony, and "they" are STILL getting the bad stuff on the planes.

 

But the problem is it is just something to make the general public feel better. It is not something that works.

[LemurCat]

for all the people upset at the procedure and are saying they are not going to fly until it changes...

 

what would you like it changed to? No checking??? Would you really fly on a plane where no one on the plane was checked?

 

If there were 15 airlines and 1 of those airlines had a policy for all the people that didnt want their freedoms to be infringed that they will not do any security checks on the people (They will still check the bags unless you think that is an envasion too)

 

You would fly on that airline? Dont you think Every terrorist would fly that too?

 

the measures might or moght not be working but I will say it is my opinion that the policies in place are making it harder for terrorists to blow up planes... Will they find a way.. yeah, probably but will it be as easy as it was prior to 9/11? No

 

I wonder if the families of the people who were killed on 9/11 care that there is extra layers of security? I wonder if a widow or a father that lost his children on 9/11 is screaming about his freedoms because of the extra screenings..

 

So tell me what is the solution for all the people that think this is so offensive to your freedoms?

 

By the way.. the 4th amendment has an exception clause that would fit this.

 

I don't think the issue is people not wanting to be checked or having other people checked. I think the issue is the highly personal nature of this particular scanner and pat-down. If perhaps they were able to project the scan on a generic body, I don't think most people would have as many issues with this. As it is, there are some people who are claiming it's sexual harrasement.

[kbmeow]

That will be next.

 

What kamakaze idiot won't stuff something up there next, after choosing a pat down line.

 

Wake up folks.

 

 

LOL my husband always says next some is going to show a explosive up there a $$ and then we are going to have to bend over and spread

[pittpanther]

My 2 cents:

 

To those questioning the effectiveness of current TSA practices, while I think they are somewhat misguided so far they seem to be working reasonably well. Cite one example since 9/11 of a hijacked flight originating in the US.

The shoe bomber got past them. The underwear bomber got past TSA. TSA is not helping, they are only pretending to help. What is helping is that PASSENGERS now know the stakes, and are no longer being passive observers as these idiots try to take over a plane.

 

I suspect that with the exception of the one encountered by choclitsnda, (who I hope reported the encounter to the appropriate authorities), TSA personnel like doing pat-downs even less than passengers like receiving them.

I really don't care - if they dislike it so much, find a job without such distasteful practices. If my boss told me I had a new job requirement to squeeze men's penises on a regular basis, I would be looking for new work.

 

Pat-downs of children are distasteful but I think necessary for a number of reasons. From everything I've read terrorists use children as readily as adults. I doubt that TSA procedures are going away anytime soon, so getting children familiar and use to them them makes sense. Including children teaches them that they are as involved in the process as everyone else. Of course there has to parental oversight and parents need to prepare their child.

So in this continuing escalation, what happens when a terrorist uses a female child with items in her nether regions? Will you be OK with all women and girls having vaginal exams before being allowed to fly?

[kbmeow]

[quote name=

 

So in this continuing escalation, what happens when a terrorist uses a female child with items in her nether regions? Will you be OK with all women and girls having vaginal exams before being allowed to fly?[/quote]

 

 

What if a woman who is flying has her period. They will feel the pad down there if she is wearing one. How are they to know that is not a explosive? Will they make her show them? How is it going to work?

[erinsmom1996]

So you're saying that it's OK with you if they grope your teenage daughter (granddaughter) or cup and stroke her breasts? Sorry bubba, that ain't happening. (and if you go to an airport you have no choice in the matter) My family and I are either driving or not going at all until this B.S. is resolved. When the travel industry realizes that the American people aren't putting up with it anymore and they start losing money, watch how fast the TSA is ordered to pull in its horns.

 

Ben Franklin said "A person that will give up liberty for temporary safety deserves neither." What was true in the 16th century is equally true today.

 

I have gone through a pat-down and there was no cupping or stroking of anything. I prefer to give the TSA agents the benefit of the doubt as most of them are just doing their job. If there is inappropriate touching, that not acceptable at all. 99% of the time, though, I would bet that it is a quick pat down with the back of the hand.

I would rather my family and I be safe and have to go through either the screening machines or the pat-downs.

[Sargent_Schultz]

It appears pilots will be exempt in the near future...

 

http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/pilots-to-win-exemption-from/?camp=syndication&medium=portals&from=yahoo

[LemurCat]

I have gone through a pat-down and there was no cupping or stroking of anything. I prefer to give the TSA agents the benefit of the doubt as most of them are just doing their job. If there is inappropriate touching, that not acceptable at all. 99% of the time, though, I would bet that it is a quick pat down with the back of the hand.

I would rather my family and I be safe and have to go through either the screening machines or the pat-downs.

 

You do realize they have changed the way pat-downs are executed, correct? They no longer do the back-of-the-hand thing, but rather the palm and it does include the inspection of nether regions.

[pittpanther]

I have gone through a pat-down and there was no cupping or stroking of anything.

It's a new day. The previous patdowns (if you "failed" the walkthru metal detectors) were with the back of the hand and avoided the groin. Now, if you refuse the nude-a-scopes, you get the new enhanced patdowns, which for men include a squeeze of the penis. In any other context this would be sexual assault/rape.

 

I prefer to give the TSA agents the benefit of the doubt as most of them are just doing their job.

"Just following orders" is not an acceptable excuse. Didn't work in Nuremburg, won't work here.

 

Are you going to defend full cavity and vaginal searches? Because surely that is coming next, in this never-ending escalation...

[rednose83]

I will not fly until these practices are stopped. I was okay with going through the metal detector and even the "puffer." The rest of it makes me uncomfortable.

 

I was intensely searched in 2005 due to my name changing (marriage). At first, I was like sure, whatever. What I didn't know at the time is that this search consisted of men shaking out the entire contents of my carry-on piece by piece, including my underwear in full view of everyone in the line waiting. In addition, I was patted down rather aggressively including between the legs and under my breasts. Since then, I am a very nervous flyer until I get through security.

 

After my last flight and pat-down, I will not be flying again. Thankfully, I live in FL so I can still cruise :eek:

[nrdsb4]

Your right on the metal detector, But lets talk about someone who has a prosthetic and goes threw it. They set it off. He has never been pulled out of line, sat in a holding area, patted down, Asked to take off his leg, swabbed for explosives, etc.. And this would be , london, shannon, rome, Dublin, are where I am talking about.

 

What I Didn't mentioned is he works for the DOT, he flies at least once a month for work, on many a time they try and separate him from his laptop. They do not bring your bags to you unless you ask. And even then they get huffy. Only when he pulls out his badge and says it is a govt laptop will they agree to get his bags.

 

Yes we are used to it. If we fly together I take all the bags etc. I will always do the security screening, never refuse, not worth the issue. We always comply but, It is getting extreme and there is no proof it works.

 

And we have been followed by a air Marshall on a flight because he refused to take his leg off in the middle of a airport. I asked the person if they would ask a woman with a prosthetic breast to take it =off they said " no that wouldn't be right" I was like it is no different that a leg. People who are missing body parts are sensitive to that stuff. I was then told. Shut-up or you will have to do the screening too!! I said go for it. And the person left me alone.

 

 

Okay, that sounds like what my daughter had to go through once. This tiny 4' 10" girl broke her ankle at camp in New Mexico. I flew out there to bring her home, and we had her in a wheel chair. They diverted us away from the metal detectors and gave her a thorough search. It was annoying for sure.

[Shelbyjane56]

I have not read every single post but enough so that I will voice MY OPINION. I fly lots and have absolutely no problem with anything they do to keep me safe - civil liberties or not - I have nothing to hide and if I did you bet I would be crying "you are violating my civil liberties". We were flag at risk because we had to drive to another airport to fly to Fort Lauderdale as our plane was disabled. Every single airport we went through we had to go through a full body scan and a frisk - were we upset - no - because I knew that we would be safe as others would face the same thing who really deserved it. Get with the times people - it is only going to get more invasive and if you want to fly face it or drive.

 

 

I agree with you completely! We fly a lot and we also go on cruises from Indiana, no way are we going to waste time driving for a cruise, the scanners are quick, only a few seconds long, they even block out the boobs, and the manly parts for lack of another word, much rather be scanned than to have someone rub their hands all over me...unless of course its hubby doing it...glad we dont have to go to an airport for that :)

[GlendaleCruiser]

for all the people upset at the procedure and are saying they are not going to fly until it changes...

 

what would you like it changed to? No checking??? Would you really fly on a plane where no one on the plane was checked?

 

 

Denver airport has a scanner that works by puffing air at you and drawing it back. It picks up the whiff of explosives. Then you go through the metal detector. It finds guns and blades. That's quite enough.

Both would have detected the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber.

 

:mad:

[nrdsb4]

Denver airport has a scanner that works by puffing air at you and drawing it back. It picks up the whiff of explosives. Then you go through the metal detector. It finds guns and blades. That's quite enough.

Both would have detected the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber.

 

:mad:

 

I wondered what the "puffer" someone else referenced was. Thanks. That sounds like a far less invasive ordeal than what is currently being touted.

[tetleytea]

The shoe bomber got past them. The underwear bomber got past TSA. TSA is not helping, they are only pretending to help. What is helping is that PASSENGERS now know the stakes, and are no longer being passive observers as these idiots try to take over a plane.

 

You know, that's true. Why shouldn't our 2nd Amendment rights extend on to the plane? If the airlines want to allow people with concealed handgun permits to bring both their gun and their permit on the plane, the airlines should be allowed to allow that. If that spooks out their clientele so much, that's fine--then the airlines can decide to ban it, then. And the pilots have ASKED to carry handguns with them on the plane. Why the heck not?? What--are you worried the pilots might hijack the plane?? Give us our free market back. Let one airline allow it, one airline to ban it. Rest assured, I will fly the airline that allows it! And I don't even have a CHL.

 

Make no mistake about it: as far as I'm concerned, the TSA and the air marshals are NOT welcome. I want them to disappear. Gone. I hear McDonald's is hiring.

[pittpanther]

I wondered what the "puffer" someone else referenced was. Thanks. That sounds like a far less invasive ordeal than what is currently being touted.

 

I think we can assume that the company that makes "puffers" is not as "politically connected" as the company that makes nude-a-scopes.

 

Follow the money, guys...

[hftmrock]

Denver airport has a scanner that works by puffing air at you and drawing it back. It picks up the whiff of explosives. Then you go through the metal detector. It finds guns and blades. That's quite enough.

Both would have detected the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber.

 

:mad:

 

 

nope... wouldnt have detected it.. they used PETN... no wiff of explosives and not metal...

[MrPete]

Even Sully says, "NO!"

 

http://networkedblogs.com/aBTp3

[GlendaleCruiser]

I think we can assume that the company that makes "puffers" is not as "politically connected" as the company that makes nude-a-scopes.

 

Follow the money, guys...

 

General Electric makes the "puffer". You step into it WITH YOUR SHOES ON and feel a puff of air from all directions. Then you are done with that. You go on to walk through a regular metal detector and your shoes go through the x-ray.

It would have detected the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber, too.

Last time I was in Denver there was only 1 of these devices so most lanes didn't have one, but it was totally NON-INTRUSIVE and no one sees your vajajay.

[blakey]

I won't say I won't ever fly again. Too many ports too far away. :) But I'll certainly consider other travel options.

These procedures, or any other procedures, will be effective ONLY if everyone is subjected to it. No exceptions for ANY reason...religion, race, age, sex...it doesn't matter. NO EXCEPTIONS. Terrorists will naturally use those exceptions, if they exist.

And about the stuff confiscated and kept nearby. Thats pretty durned stupid. Of course, anyone carrying that stuff thru a security check is pretty durned stupid, too. IF those items are dangerous, they should be immediately destroyed and the person carrying the 'dangerous' items put thru a very extensive check...including identification (passport, etc.)

I understand some of the xrayed images are making it onto the internet. :o That is definitely disturbing. Hopefully no names are attached. Perhaps these TSA folks need to be screened a little better. OOOOO...such an extreme idea, I know.

Reminder to self...no underwire bras. Geez...do you think the hooks will set off the detectors. :eek: What to do? What to do? :D

[Shipbound]

Where was all this security before 9/11?