Our flights to catch the Christmas cruise ship were cancelled

[Greghouseo]

Do they cruiselines sell flights from every airport in the UK ?

 

Even when cruisers have the flights and cruise booked through the cruiseline they have not been getting the assistance from the cruiseline in many instances...so booking everything with the cruiseline does not always mean you will be ok if something goes wrong.

 

I have had problems finding a RCCL Rep at airports even in normal circumstances.

 

No they dont, but at least the disappointment of missing the cruise is mitigated by the fact that they won;t have to struggle to get recompense and ultimately be out of pocket.

[flannbarr]

Did you have travel insurance?

[Elizanessie]

No they dont, but at least the disappointment of missing the cruise is mitigated by the fact that they won;t have to struggle to get recompense and ultimately be out of pocket.

 

So you are saying that if someone has fly/cruise booked and flight is cancelled then it is easier to get help from the cruiseline than those who booked their flight separately from the cruise?

[Greghouseo]

So you are saying that if someone has fly/cruise booked and flight is cancelled then it is easier to get help from the cruiseline than those who booked their flight separately from the cruise?

 

What I am saying is that essentially there are 3 ways of booking.

1) Through the cruise line

2) Through an ABTA/ATOL TA

3) Independently sourcing each stage.

 

In options 1 or 2 provide you have the patience and know (or take the trouble to find out) about your rights you should not be out of pocket one iota. You should also be in a position to make demands and be able to back them up with the necessary industry protection of ABTA and ATOL.

 

In option 3, your on your own.

 

Whilst I would MAYBE concede that option 3 may save a relatively small element of money (you don't pay the TA the profit but he can source flights generally cheaper so there is an element of mitigation there).

 

I know I am sounding unsympathetic, but it really is beyond me, especially with the events that constantly have occurred in the Travel Industry over the past few years why people would run the risk for a relatively small saving when balanced against the potential risk.

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

I can only speak for Spain, but the laws are similar in all EU countries.

 

In Spain, as the law stands now:

 

1. If you book cruise and air from the cruise line (whether directly from the cruise line or from an authorized travel agency) and the airline cancels its flights causing you to miss the cruise, the cruise line (and travel agency, if you used that option) must either refund the ENTIRE package (not just the air), or make alternative arrangements for you (if they re-route you so you get to the cruise a few days later, you are entitled to a proportional refund).

 

2. If you book cruise and air from a travel agency (but the travel agency booked the air separately, not from the cruise line), then you have the same refund rights, but from the travel agency (as organizer), but not the cruise line. In practice, because here in Spain the cruise lines depend on the large travel agency chains for nearly all of their business, the cruise line usually comes up with a refund but is not required to do so. The travel agency has its own insurance for this purpose, but the customer gets his refund directly from the travel agency.

 

3. If you book cruise only from the cruise line or a travel agency, then you go on to a website such as Expedia and book your air tickets separately, technically you are out of luck as far as the cruise refund is concerned.

 

Here in Spain, you are most protected if you book air/cruise package and do so through a travel agency (that way both the cruise line and the travel agency share liability and responsibility as "organizers"). Or at least you should buy cruise only plus air separately, both both through the same travel agency.

 

You are "out of luck" so to speak, if you purchase the cruise directly from the cruise line or at a travel agency, but then purchase your own air, or purchase your air at a different travel agency.

 

EU authorities are very well aware that these laws date from about 1992 when there was no Internet, and when European travel customs entailed going into a brick and mortar travel agency, reading a brochure, and purchasing a (usually charter) trip from a brochure which included, but did not break down the value of, air, hotel, transfers, meals, etc.

 

There are many studies and proposals to change these laws to adapt them to the reality of travel purchases as they are made today, since these practices differ substantially from 1992.

 

Imminent amendments to these laws will take into account travel purchased on Internet portals, cruises, etc. It is well known that the legislative purpose of these laws is for consumers not to be out the money when these unfortunate circumstances occur. However, they also recognize that it is getting more and more difficult to provide protection for travel purchases in the way we buy travel now, but using laws that were designed for protecting travel purchases made according to 1992 custom and practices.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Greghouseo]

Dear friends:

 

I can only speak for Spain, but the laws are similar in all EU countries.

 

In Spain, as the law stands now:

 

1. If you book cruise and air from the cruise line (whether directly from the cruise line or from an authorized travel agency) and the airline cancels its flights causing you to miss the cruise, the cruise line (and travel agency, if you used that option) must either refund the ENTIRE package (not just the air), or make alternative arrangements for you (if they re-route you so you get to the cruise a few days later, you are entitled to a proportional refund).

 

2. If you book cruise and air from a travel agency (but the travel agency booked the air separately, not from the cruise line), then you have the same refund rights, but from the travel agency (as organizer), but not the cruise line. In practice, because here in Spain the cruise lines depend on the large travel agency chains for nearly all of their business, the cruise line usually comes up with a refund but is not required to do so. The travel agency has its own insurance for this purpose, but the customer gets his refund directly from the travel agency.

 

3. If you book cruise only from the cruise line or a travel agency, then you go on to a website such as Expedia and book your air tickets separately, technically you are out of luck as far as the cruise refund is concerned.

 

Here in Spain, you are most protected if you book air/cruise package and do so through a travel agency (that way both the cruise line and the travel agency share liability and responsibility as "organizers"). Or at least you should buy cruise only plus air separately, both both through the same travel agency.

 

You are "out of luck" so to speak, if you purchase the cruise directly from the cruise line or at a travel agency, but then purchase your own air, or purchase your air at a different travel agency.

 

EU authorities are very well aware that these laws date from about 1992 when there was no Internet, and when European travel customs entailed going into a brick and mortar travel agency, reading a brochure, and purchasing a (usually charter) trip from a brochure which included, but did not break down the value of, air, hotel, transfers, meals, etc.

 

There are many studies and proposals to change these laws to adapt them to the reality of travel purchases as they are made today, since these practices differ substantially from 1992.

 

Imminent amendments to these laws will take into account travel purchased on Internet portals, cruises, etc. It is well known that the legislative purpose of these laws is for consumers not to be out the money when these unfortunate circumstances occur. However, they also recognize that it is getting more and more difficult to provide protection for travel purchases in the way we buy travel now, but using laws that were designed for protecting travel purchases made according to 1992 custom and practices.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Exactly, I tried to put it like you did Gunther, but I am not quite as competent in using legalese that you are. :-)

[Elizanessie]

What I am saying is that essentially there are 3 ways of booking.

1) Through the cruise line

2) Through an ABTA/ATOL TA

3) Independently sourcing each stage.

 

In options 1 or 2 provide you have the patience and know (or take the trouble to find out) about your rights you should not be out of pocket one iota. You should also be in a position to make demands and be able to back them up with the necessary industry protection of ABTA and ATOL.

 

In option 3, your on your own.

 

Whilst I would MAYBE concede that option 3 may save a relatively small element of money (you don't pay the TA the profit but he can source flights generally cheaper so there is an element of mitigation there).

 

I know I am sounding unsympathetic, but it really is beyond me, especially with the events that constantly have occurred in the Travel Industry over the past few years why people would run the risk for a relatively small saving when balanced against the potential risk.

 

But booking fly/cruise with the cruiseline doesn't always mean you will get help when a problem occurs, this is the point I am trying to get over.

 

I don't book my flights through the cruiseline as I book my cruises with a US TA. I use my frequent flyer miles for my flights and I know that if I have any problems the company are easy to contact.

 

I can understand though why some folks do book fly/cruise...not everyone is able/comfortable to do it themselves but fly/cruisers have come to realise that this is not always the best/safest way to go.

 

Each to their own.

[Greghouseo]

Liz I am not really talking about the problem side of things regarding the logistics of getting from point A to point B I am talking about the financial implications which IMESHO is far far easier to address when not doing it all oneself.

[Elizanessie]

Liz I am not really talking about the problem side of things regarding the logistics of getting from point A to point B I am talking about the financial implications which IMESHO is far far easier to address when not doing it all oneself.

 

I guess as a TA though, you would have to recommend booking it through a TA or the cruiseline.

 

Paying more money when booking flights through a TA/Cruiseline does not guarantee you will get better service, more bang for your money or more assistance as has been shown here on CC on many an occasion.

[Greghouseo]

I guess as a TA though, you would have to recommend booking it through a TA or the cruiseline.

 

Paying more money when booking flights through a TA/Cruiseline does not guarantee you will get better service, more bang for your money or more assistance as has been shown here on CC on many an occasion.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one, Liz.

 

I guess it depends on the individual, and in your case I could possibly agree with you, but in the case of the OP, not in a millions years did they make the right decision to try and do it themselves.

[scottishwee35]

I am worry about it now as I don't take the sides which is right or wrong...

 

I understand in UK have lots of snowing and people didnt expect that had happened and it affected lots of flight had been cancelled...

 

I am worry that I booked flight and cruise separately... Why? because I booked cruise 2 years ago and they were asking me about fly and we want spend more times in Orlando after cruise... We said no... then my family told me that can book cruise with fly and can stay longer... we didn't know that...

 

I phoned back and it was too late that no flights available for us and we struggled to get the flight but we booked by Thomas cook... it is separate..

 

I hope it go smooth in April....

 

In future I will book fly/cruise together....

 

I hope you can make it for Xmas...

 

Scottishwee35

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

I am not a travel agent, but rather an attorney.

 

At least on paper, the cruiseline and travel agency are supposed to provide "assistance" when incidents happen here in the EU.

 

In the U.S., the contracts state that you are on your own and out of luck.

 

The problem arises when the cruiseline ignores the law. For example, RCCL's treatment of passengers during the volcanic ash incident leaves a lot to be desired. Celebrity's treatment of passengers in Nice during the Century incident was completely illegal under EU law. Silversea, during the volcanic ash incident, re-routed passengers who disembarked in Miami and couldn't fly back to Europe, through other airlines, up the East Coast, back across the pond, and home, providing the required "assistance" -- re-routing, hotels, meals, telephone, etc. all along the way.

 

However, in the long run, and despite my heartfelt compassion for passengers who are wrongly left on their own not knowing very well what to do, I, as the poster before me, am most concerned about the financial liability and consumer protection.

 

Here in Spain (and throughout the EU), you are financially protected if you book air/sea with the cruiseline or travel agency, or if you book cruise only plus air with the same travel agency. I refer to financial protection.

 

In the U.S., the cruiselines try to say that they only act as an agent in booking the airline tickets and that if there is a problem with the flights they are not responsible. I don't believe that position is ethically valid -- I do not know whether it is legally valid since I don't practice law in the U.S.

 

When the laws were written in 1992, people didn't purchase air directly from airline websites or other Internet portals. The new version of the EU travel protection laws will seek to provide the same protection to which we are accustomed, but by accommodating the way we buy travel now.

 

Frankly speaking, I am more concerned about the financial protection as opposed to whether or not RCCL has a representative standing inside Manchester airport to help you. It is well known that one representative cannot help hundreds of people and oftentimes when people experience problems at the airport they are encouraged to call the airline call centers and not stand in line for hours waiting for one person to help them.

 

However, "paying more money for your flights with the cruise line or TA" may not guarantee better service, but it will guarantee getting your money back for BOTH the flights and cruise in case there is a problem with the flights and you miss your cruise. Booking your cruise with the cruise line or travel agency, but then seeking to save a few euros or pounds on Expedia or some other website to book your flights will place you in a precarious position as regards a cruise refund if there is a problem with your flights and you miss the cruise.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[steamboats]

In Germany it´s slightly different regarding the TA part. To avoid the liabilty most TAs book your cruise and air but as a middle-man (watch the fine print of your trip or TA). If the TA is offering a whole package like cruise, air, pre cruise hotel, transfers than the TA is legally the organiser and is responsible if anything is going wrong. But if the TA is only booking a cruise and a flight as separate services than you´re on your own again.

 

Liz, actually even booking cruise and air with RCI I´ve never seen any RCI rep at my home airport. Actually I don´t expect to see any. There can´t be a rep at every airport in Germany they have booked passengers flying from. Even if all flights are routed through Frankfurt (where the German RCI office is located) a rep wouldn´t get into the security area of the airport (and that´s where your passengers are when they arrive through a connecting flight). So the only help you can get when you are at the airport is by phone.

 

steamboats

[Greghouseo]

. But if the TA is only booking a cruise and a flight as separate services than you´re on your own again.

 

 

 

steamboats

 

Factually incorrect completely.

If you have booked the flight and cruise through the same TA as a re-package you are completely and totally covered by his ATOL (Association of Tour Operators License.)

He therefore clearly becomes the Tour Oprator and such offers total protection.

 

If you are daft or naive enough to book a re-package from a company that does not have an ATOL license then more fool you.

[Elizanessie]

Liz, actually even booking cruise and air with RCI I´ve never seen any RCI rep at my home airport. Actually I don´t expect to see any. There can´t be a rep at every airport in Germany they have booked passengers flying from. Even if all flights are routed through Frankfurt (where the German RCI office is located) a rep wouldn´t get into the security area of the airport (and that´s where your passengers are when they arrive through a connecting flight). So the only help you can get when you are at the airport is by phone.

 

steamboats

 

The only airports in the UK I have heard/seen RCCL Rep are Gatwick and Heathrow...and at both these airports I have had to go hunting for the Reps.

 

In Miami last year when my son had to go back to UK due to family emergency and miss Oasis 12/5 cruise it took forever to find the RCCL Rep there...even after 3 calls over the tannoy system they didn't apprear..until finally after the 4th call one appeared.

[steamboats]

Factually incorrect completely.

If you have booked the flight and cruise through the same TA as a re-package you are completely and totally covered by his ATOL (Association of Tour Operators License.)

He therefore clearly becomes the Tour Oprator and such offers total protection.

 

If you are daft or naive enough to book a re-package from a company that does not have an ATOL license then more fool you.

 

Greghouseo,

 

I was referring to the German law. And TAs do try to avoid to act as "tour operator" so they state that it´s no package but separate services. You usually get two invoices for the cruise and the flights. Those invoices state that the cruise company / airline is the operator.

 

steamboats

[Merion_Mom]

Well, here is some GOOD news.

 

My daughter's flight left Heathrow almost on time this morning, and she is on her way home!!!!!!

[Albert Ross]

Last year in november, Serenade was cancelled for 2 weeks because the ship was chartered. I usually by flight tickets long time before the cruise, to obtain the best fares, and I was only offered to sail on Adventure instead, but not on the same dates and route. If my air ticket had not made me able to catch the other cruise, would RCCL then be responsible for fligth costs, since they cancelled ?

I can only speak to the UK,and your experience is slightly different as the ship was chartered.

Usually if the ship is chartered they offer another date or ship to swap to, and if you take this you get some OBC as a thanks, but if you decline, then you get a full refund. If you had booked cruise and flights through RCI then you would get a refund of both.

However as your flights were booked separately then that is your responsibility to claim on insurance or use anyway and arrange a land holiday instead or a cruise with another line that happens to fit the dates.

RCI has no duty to refund these. This is how I understand it.

 

I have had problems finding a RCCL Rep at airports even in normal circumstances.

I believe there is only a rep at the airport if RCI have 20-25+ people on the flight. If your flight is from a small regional airport then

I doubt there would be someone there.