Canada Airport Security

[LiftLockCouple]

I have been lurking on this thread for a couple of days now. Here is my little rant. I find it curious how we Canadians have such strong opinions of our larger airports. IE Vancouver, Montreal and the biggy, Pearson. Most Canadians live near much smaller airports and instinctively don't like the larger centers, seems to carry over to the airports at those larger cities. It is a little like shopping at the corner store where they know you and then going to the large super market where you don't know anyone or where thing are. DW and I live near Toronto therefore it is our airport of departure. Over the past few years we have had opportunity to fly into and out of many Canadian cities served by Air Canada from Victoria to St.John's including smaller airports such as Saint John, Moncton, Deer Lake, Yarmouth ( before AC quit flying there ) and Sault Ste. Marie. We have not yet been to Saskatoon or Quebec City. To be honest I fail to see why the strong opinions exist. Other than physical size, we have experienced virtually no difference in the security climate at the various airports. Yes the smaller air ports are typically a little friendlier but the professional conduct by the agents is fairly consistant. At Pearson on the 31st of Dec we flew to Miami and went thought the security for American departures, except for the expected requirement to remove shoes for American departures, there was no difference in the attitude or conduct by the agents. I saw no one being frisked and one went into the scanner. On the return from Miami ( an airport that gets frequently slagged ) the conduct by the TSA folks was virtually identical to what we experience here. Again no frisking and no one in the scanner. Yes Pearson and Trudeau and Vancouver are larger, just allow for the extra time for connections due to the distances. The carping about having to move your own luggage from one point to anouther when making a connection between domestic and American flights......I think I might understand when I see the size of some peoples cases, the baggage handlers get sore backs from your stuff as well. I think it is a bonus to clear American customs here at home rather than in some of the large American airports we fly to, much larger than Pearson or Trudeau.

BTW I agree about the water stick, it likey had more to do with security than a power trip. Monteal is no worse or better than any other airport in Canada. Nothing is ever perfect so anyone can have an isolated bad experience at any time but we have had so few that quite honestly I can't remember one. Sapper1, Saint John is indeed a great airport to depart from, the baggage x-ray is very convenient and the staff friendly. I go there approx 2 - 3 times a year and the faces are getting familiar. I remember beeing frisked in Moncton once but never anywhere else. I try to remember they have a job to do, cooperate, be pleasant, and in the large centers don't expect the agent to do anything but their job. Sorry folks but I had to get that out.

[sapper1]

Vancouver airport is truly one of the nicest airport.

 

Now sorry for the hijack, but i need to know how long a drive it is to the port in Boston from Moncton NB? Sapper? Kazu? Thanks very much.

I don't know if you are located in Moncton or not, so I will assume not.

It takes about 1 1/2 hours to drive to Saint John from Moncton. When we used to drive to Florida we would leave here at 7:00 AM Eastern time (8:00 Atlantic) and we would arrive at the intersection of I-495 and the Mass Pike around 4:15 PM to 4:30 Eastern time. This is with stops, roughly within the speed limit and assuming average traffic. I don't know how long it takes to get to downtown Boston from the intersection with the Pike because we used to turn west at that point and head out to Sturbridge. I am sure S7S can weigh in here and help.

 

This is with crossing the border at the St. Stephen/Calais crossing and taking Rte 9 (the Airline) down to meet I-95 at Bangor. If you get the Auto club to do a Trip Tik for you they tend to route you way up to the Woodstock/Houlton crossing to pick up the 95 there. That is way out of your way so request crossing at St. Stephen.

[sapper1]

I have been lurking on this thread for a couple of days now. Here is my little rant. I find it curious how we Canadians have such strong opinions of our larger airports. IE Vancouver, Montreal and the biggy, Pearson. Most Canadians live near much smaller airports and instinctively don't like the larger centers, seems to carry over to the airports at those larger cities. It is a little like shopping at the corner store where they know you and then going to the large super market where you don't know anyone or where thing are. DW and I live near Toronto therefore it is our airport of departure. Over the past few years we have had opportunity to fly into and out of many Canadian cities served by Air Canada from Victoria to St.John's including smaller airports such as Saint John, Moncton, Deer Lake, Yarmouth ( before AC quit flying there ) and Sault Ste. Marie. We have not yet been to Saskatoon or Quebec City. To be honest I fail to see why the strong opinions exist. Other than physical size, we have experienced virtually no difference in the security climate at the various airports. Yes the smaller air ports are typically a little friendlier but the professional conduct by the agents is fairly consistant. At Pearson on the 31st of Dec we flew to Miami and went thought the security for American departures, except for the expected requirement to remove shoes for American departures, there was no difference in the attitude or conduct by the agents. I saw no one being frisked and one went into the scanner. On the return from Miami ( an airport that gets frequently slagged ) the conduct by the TSA folks was virtually identical to what we experience here. Again no frisking and no one in the scanner. Yes Pearson and Trudeau and Vancouver are larger, just allow for the extra time for connections due to the distances. The carping about having to move your own luggage from one point to anouther when making a connection between domestic and American flights......I think I might understand when I see the size of some peoples cases, the baggage handlers get sore backs from your stuff as well. I think it is a bonus to clear American customs here at home rather than in some of the large American airports we fly to, much larger than Pearson or Trudeau.

BTW I agree about the water stick, it likey had more to do with security than a power trip. Monteal is no worse or better than any other airport in Canada. Nothing is ever perfect so anyone can have an isolated bad experience at any time but we have had so few that quite honestly I can't remember one. Sapper1, Saint John is indeed a great airport to depart from, the baggage x-ray is very convenient and the staff friendly. I go there approx 2 - 3 times a year and the faces are getting familiar. I remember beeing frisked in Moncton once but never anywhere else. I try to remember they have a job to do, cooperate, be pleasant, and in the large centers don't expect the agent to do anything but their job. Sorry folks but I had to get that out.

Don't apologize---there is a lot of truth in what you say, if we are honest with ourselves----especially those of us from smaller communities. You said it very well.

[cruz chic]

I have been lurking on this thread for a couple of days now. Here is my little rant. I find it curious how we Canadians have such strong opinions of our larger airports. IE Vancouver, Montreal and the biggy, Pearson. Most Canadians live near much smaller airports and instinctively don't like the larger centers, seems to carry over to the airports at those larger cities. It is a little like shopping at the corner store where they know you and then going to the large super market where you don't know anyone or where thing are. DW and I live near Toronto therefore it is our airport of departure. Over the past few years we have had opportunity to fly into and out of many Canadian cities served by Air Canada from Victoria to St.John's including smaller airports such as Saint John, Moncton, Deer Lake, Yarmouth ( before AC quit flying there ) and Sault Ste. Marie. We have not yet been to Saskatoon or Quebec City. To be honest I fail to see why the strong opinions exist. Other than physical size, we have experienced virtually no difference in the security climate at the various airports. Yes the smaller air ports are typically a little friendlier but the professional conduct by the agents is fairly consistant. At Pearson on the 31st of Dec we flew to Miami and went thought the security for American departures, except for the expected requirement to remove shoes for American departures, there was no difference in the attitude or conduct by the agents. I saw no one being frisked and one went into the scanner. On the return from Miami ( an airport that gets frequently slagged ) the conduct by the TSA folks was virtually identical to what we experience here. Again no frisking and no one in the scanner. Yes Pearson and Trudeau and Vancouver are larger, just allow for the extra time for connections due to the distances. The carping about having to move your own luggage from one point to anouther when making a connection between domestic and American flights......I think I might understand when I see the size of some peoples cases, the baggage handlers get sore backs from your stuff as well. I think it is a bonus to clear American customs here at home rather than in some of the large American airports we fly to, much larger than Pearson or Trudeau.

BTW I agree about the water stick, it likey had more to do with security than a power trip. Monteal is no worse or better than any other airport in Canada. Nothing is ever perfect so anyone can have an isolated bad experience at any time but we have had so few that quite honestly I can't remember one. Sapper1, Saint John is indeed a great airport to depart from, the baggage x-ray is very convenient and the staff friendly. I go there approx 2 - 3 times a year and the faces are getting familiar. I remember beeing frisked in Moncton once but never anywhere else. I try to remember they have a job to do, cooperate, be pleasant, and in the large centers don't expect the agent to do anything but their job. Sorry folks but I had to get that out.

Are you discounting the experience that the OP brought up? If you have never had a bad experience consider yourself lucky. Sounds like you fly within Canada so how would you know what it is like to fly into the US. This is where I've had most of my problems. I really hope that you never experience some of the problems that others have. Sounds to me like you are blaming the consumer to me.

[LiftLockCouple]

Are you discounting the experience that the OP brought up? If you have never had a bad experience consider yourself lucky. Sounds like you fly within Canada so how would you know what it is like to fly into the US. This is where I've had most of my problems. I really hope that you never experience some of the problems that others have. Sounds to me like you are blaming the consumer to me.

 

I am not sure I can adequately answer your challenge but will try. To some degree the consumer is to blame due to lack of attention the the details of todays air travel. In particular I was commenting on the strong opinions concerning specific large airports with comments like "avoid at all costs" and "teach us westerners a lesson" etc. We have it good here on this side of the border and in this country in general. I think have travelled enough to know.

 

Now for the OPs issue. I am in no way discounting the situation. It is most unfortunate that this event ever happened. I have enough experience with the security personell to know that they are individuals who sometimes act in ways contrary to their training or in some cases have inadequate training for the situation they find themselves in. That is not an excuse for behaviour that embarasses a member of the travelling public. The consumer , us, now have an opportunity to learn from this and to be more prepared when we fly. I have to assume that this incident will also become a training aid for new security agents as well, meaning the various organizations will learn as well. I have no idea how many occasions arise at the Calgary airport where agents are confronted with similar situations. I would assume it to be a very small percentage and any given agent might only see such things once in a very long while. It is a real shame it was handled so poorly in this case and in all likelyhood the agent in question feels the same way.

 

I do travel mostly within Canada but am not unaware of the issues with travel to the US. As noted we just returned from Miami so I do have some recent experience with a large US airport and the TSA staff there. It is still a human performance issue related to training and the ability to react in the heat of the moment correctly. Sometimes it goes wrong as in this case. In my experience it goes right far more often than it goes wrong.

 

The consumer does have a responsibility to inform themselves of the expectations and to be prepared. There is ample information at our compuer finger tips as long as we look and read. I witnessed a man in Sault Ste. Marie a year ago try to bring peanut butter on a flight to take to Italy, not understanding that it is banned since it is essentially a paste or a jel. Both sides handled it well but he just didn't use his head and think it through before boarding. We as consumers do share the blame for some of the situations we get ourselves into. There is however no need to embarass us ignorant people that are simply unaware. Both sides in this have accountabilities.

 

That is my attempt.....................

[world~citizen]

We as consumers do share the blame for some of the situations we get ourselves into....

 

Interesting observations.

 

When I purchase a pair of socks I am a consumer. When I go through airport security I am a citizen.

 

The nature of the relationship between citizen and state, particularly the citizen and the coercive agencies of the state is not, in my view, comparable to the vendor-consumer relationship on so many levels.

 

I understand your point though, and it is a good one. We should be aware of the law of the land. It seems very sad however that fundamental principles related to freedom vs. security are (apparently) being arbitrarily adjudicated by under-paid, under-trained airport security personnel.

 

Its the times we live in.

 

Smooth sailing...

[LiftLockCouple]

The poster used the term "consumer", I just responded using the apparent preferred choice of terminology.

The issue of our security forces, their pay scale, and training are likely to large an issue for this thread.

In conclusion to my previous comments, I submit that the security agents at the airports are doing a professional job and are doing their best to perform their duties given the situation that they find themselves in. They do not deserve the " broad brush " of contempt and ridicule so often heaped on them. My observation from coast to coast is that the agency responsible has done a pretty good job of providing a consistant standard that we can expect in every airport we go to. The expectations are well documented and readily available to all who want to know. Whether that agency and agents are "coercive agents of state" or not is a political argument that I have not intention of engaging. The same goes for any argument put forward regarding "principals of freedom" vs "security". Cheers citizen........

[LiftLockCouple]

Just for clarity, I am not employed by any airline, airport or government agency. I am fortunate that I have been able to travel quite a bit for pleasure the past few years and extra fortunate that the majority has been within Canada with limited travel to a couple of US destinations. cheers citizens.........

[sail7seas]

I don't know if you are located in Moncton or not, so I will assume not.

It takes about 1 1/2 hours to drive to Saint John from Moncton. When we used to drive to Florida we would leave here at 7:00 AM Eastern time (8:00 Atlantic) and we would arrive at the intersection of I-495 and the Mass Pike around 4:15 PM to 4:30 Eastern time. This is with stops, roughly within the speed limit and assuming average traffic. I don't know how long it takes to get to downtown Boston from the intersection with the Pike because we used to turn west at that point and head out to Sturbridge. I am sure S7S can weigh in here and help.

 

This is with crossing the border at the St. Stephen/Calais crossing and taking Rte 9 (the Airline) down to meet I-95 at Bangor. If you get the Auto club to do a Trip Tik for you they tend to route you way up to the Woodstock/Houlton crossing to pick up the 95 there. That is way out of your way so request crossing at St. Stephen.

 

 

I asked my DH about driving time from the end of the Mass Pike to Black Falcon cruise terminal on the waterfront. Both of us are vague as to whether you exit the Pike at Prudential or Kenmore Square but there is not much difference in terms of driving time.

 

With City of Boston traffic, no one can ever say for sure how long to get to anywhere as it can back up, particularly at rush hour. Assuming clear weather, no bad holdups in traffic, you should be able to drive from exiting the Mass Pike to Black Falcon in about 20 minutes. Obviously city traffic, lights, conditions can make it variable.

 

Major landmark to look out for to get to Black Falcon would be South Station (Railroad Station). That is the direction you are heading to reach the waterfront.

[cruz chic]

Just for clarity, I am not employed by any airline, airport or government agency. I am fortunate that I have been able to travel quite a bit for pleasure the past few years and extra fortunate that the majority has been within Canada with limited travel to a couple of US destinations. cheers citizens.........

Thanks for clarification on that because you sure sound as though you are. I'm wondering why it bothers you if people say they don't want to go through a certain airport. That their choice.....not yours. I will avoid the Toronto airport if at all possible. I have not had good experiences there. I wouldn't blame people if they didn't want to go through Calgary after seeing this video. That is my home airport. I take no offence to that. The security is totally overboard these days and totally reactive instead of proactive. I don't know how you can defend that.

[kazu]

I don't know if you are located in Moncton or not, so I will assume not.

It takes about 1 1/2 hours to drive to Saint John from Moncton. When we used to drive to Florida we would leave here at 7:00 AM Eastern time (8:00 Atlantic) and we would arrive at the intersection of I-495 and the Mass Pike around 4:15 PM to 4:30 Eastern time. This is with stops, roughly within the speed limit and assuming average traffic. I don't know how long it takes to get to downtown Boston from the intersection with the Pike because we used to turn west at that point and head out to Sturbridge. I am sure S7S can weigh in here and help.

 

This is with crossing the border at the St. Stephen/Calais crossing and taking Rte 9 (the Airline) down to meet I-95 at Bangor. If you get the Auto club to do a Trip Tik for you they tend to route you way up to the Woodstock/Houlton crossing to pick up the 95 there. That is way out of your way so request crossing at St. Stephen.

 

Sapper 1 has covered this very well - my only question - when are you planning on cruising. No matter where you are in the Maritimes, I wouldn't try this in the middle of winter.

 

too many different weathers coming in and too much snow and too many Nor 'Easters.

 

Spring, Summer, Fall fine, but not when we are hitting this stuff (aka snow).

 

(:eek: get me out of here and my cruise is not until November :eek:

[sail7seas]

If they are sailing HAL from Boston, it would be spring, summer or fall as that is when Maasdam is here doing her Canada/New England cruises. No HAL ships sail from Boston in the winter..... unfortunately. ;) We'd love to hop aboard for a trip south to the Caribbean.

 

[kazu]

If they are sailing HAL from Boston, it would be spring, summer or fall as that is when Maasdam is here doing her Canada/New England cruises. No HAL ships sail from Boston in the winter..... unfortunately. ;) We'd love to hop aboard for a trip south to the Caribbean.

 

 

 

my faux pax - apologies. :o

[world~citizen]

...I submit that the security agents at the airports are doing a professional job and are doing their best to perform their duties given the situation that they find themselves in. They do not deserve the " broad brush " of contempt and ridicule so often heaped on them....

 

I think the contempt you recognize is for the nature of pax experiences.

 

I do not know what the answer is.

 

Smooth sailing...

['The Bear']

'Kazu' --- You're right about the weather ---- I drove down this week for my Maasdam cruise tomorrow, and had to deal with the ice storm in the 'Carolinas'! Quite a treacherous drive BUT -- no TSA issues!! ;)!

 

'Sail' --- What happened to our Pats. That's twice lately that they've collapsed in the playoffs against N Y teams!! :(

[sapper1]

'Kazu' --- You're right about the weather ---- I drove down this week for my Maasdam cruise tomorrow' date=' and had to deal with the ice storm in the 'Carolinas'! Quite a treacherous drive BUT -- no TSA issues!! ;)!

 

[b']'Sail' ---[/b] What happened to our Pats. That's twice lately that they've collapsed in the playoffs against N Y teams!! :(

Have a wonderful cruise!!! It's -14C here today so you're not missing a thing.:eek:

[GeriatricNurse]

Have a wonderful cruise!!! It's -14C here today so you're not missing a thing.:eek:

 

 

It's -28C where I live Sapper1 with a chilly wind from the north!:eek:

[sapper1]

It's -28C where I live Sapper1 with a chilly wind from the north!:eek:

I think we all need a cruise. My husband likes to take our cruises later in the spring because then we can come home to nicer weather. He hates returning from the sunshine to the ice and snow. Me---I could live with it to get away for a few weeks.

[cruz chic]

Have a wonderful cruise!!! It's -14C here today so you're not missing a thing.:eek:

Good to hear the "banana belt" has cooled off. Misery loves company:D.

[sail7seas]

'Kazu' --- You're right about the weather ---- I drove down this week for my Maasdam cruise tomorrow' date=' and had to deal with the ice storm in the 'Carolinas'! Quite a treacherous drive BUT -- no TSA issues!! ;)!

 

[b']'Sail' ---[/b] What happened to our Pats. That's twice lately that they've collapsed in the playoffs against N Y teams!! :(

 

 

It was pretty ugly, Bear. Groan......... :(

 

Have a great time and take good care of the beautiful Maasdam. :)

[kazu]

Good to hear the "banana belt" has cooled off. Misery loves company:D.

 

 

You are mean :rolleyes: It's actually colder than Sapper reported in her post as we are in the Valley - wind chill is bad. They are hoping it gets to a high of -8.

 

I dread walking the dogs this afternoon. I need an escape:) Next year, definitely, we are doing an escape cruise :)

[Jo-Bob]

Thanks Sapper, Kazu and S7S....it has taken awhile for me to get back.

 

I actually live in BC, but in the very early stages of planning a holiday for September, which may include the 7 day cruise either from or to Boston, or Montreal....not sure, there are many choices.

 

DH spent time in Oromocto, Doaktown, Boisetown in his youth....etc, etc...and has always wanted to go back. But we'd want to include PEI, NS,a few days in Montreal, so really not sure at all which way we will go.....and it really depends on the health of our dogs whether we both travel at that time or not. I have always been very keen on the Canada/New England cruises.

 

I think I underestimated the distance, my geography's never been that great....despite being Canadian;) Thanks again. (oh, and -30 with the wind:eek: and it can STOP snowing anytime now!!!!)

[mina]

I am so sorry that this happened. There are really two issues -- how the woman was treated (unacceptable) and whether such an intense security screen should be done. Let's assume there are two planes departing. The first requires full screening of ALL passengers. The second, maybe a minor quick check over. Which plane would you want your child or grandchild to fly?

[cruz chic]

You are mean :rolleyes: It's actually colder than Sapper reported in her post as we are in the Valley - wind chill is bad. They are hoping it gets to a high of -8.

 

I dread walking the dogs this afternoon. I need an escape:) Next year, definitely, we are doing an escape cruise :)

I just hate dealing with my minus -100 all alone. Sapper knows I'm kidding. We do know each other.

[kazu]

I just hate dealing with my minus -100 all alone. Sapper knows I'm kidding. We do know each other.

 

 

I was teasing, really. sorry if it didn't come off that way :o