why Americans don't travel(as much as others) overseas:why they have less passports

[William Dean]

You mean Austen and Eliot, don't you? ;) And you had to dig pretty deep to get Purcell, Britten and Elgar...GB has had more than its share of great writers, painters and architects, but great composers...most of those would have had to take the Chunnel to get to you.

 

I really am just teasing you!

 

On the spelling, Mea Culpa...

 

I'll take serious issue with you in respect of Britten, who I feel is one of the very greatest of the twentieth century composers - Purcell and Elgar I'll accept are not in the same league.

 

Whilst Britten isn't is the league of Beethoven, Schubert or Bach - let alone Mozart - I was trying to restrict myself to one country. It seemed a little unfair to pick and choose from the whole of the Western European culture.....

 

And Electriron - of course I've heard of most of those in your list. Which would you say is the equal of Shakespeare?

 

Anyway, I think the point is that Europe has a depth of culture that the US cannot equal, but I think we've also established that the US has natural wonders that Europe can only look on with awe. Therefore travel both ways across the Atlantic must be a good thing? Agreed?

 

WD

[electricron]

Now we know you know how to use Google. Whether or not you've actually read any of these folks is another question. ;)

 

I have a very extensive library at home...Yes, I've read some works from every one of the American authors mentioned earlier.

[William Dean]

Right on. Enormous NPS fan here also. I hope I live long enough to visit the many that are still on my list, but if I don't, I have superlative memories from the ones we've hiked. Many happy nights spent in the backcountry.

 

Agreed. Put me down as a fan of the US National Parks Service. One of the treasures of your country.

 

WD

[dockrocker]

I'll take serious issue with you in respect of Britten, who I feel is one of the very greatest of the twentieth century composers - Purcell and Elgar I'll accept are not in the same league.

 

Agreed. It's interesting to muse about what varying cultural factors might go into making great artists of one type or another. Why does the UK produce so many extraordinary authors and poets, but so few outstanding composers? Why has Germany created so little edible food ;) (and yes, I consider food a form of art!), but spawned so many superb composers? No simple answers, but it's kind of fun to compare different countries' and regions' artistic specialties, if you will.

 

Thanks for taking my teasing in the spirit in which it was intended. I lived in London for some time, have traveled extensively throughout the British Isles and am an enormous fan of the UK's cultural offerings of all sorts.

[electricron]

And Electriron - of course I've heard of most of those in your list. Which would you say is the equal of Shakespeare?

 

Anyway, I think the point is that Europe has a depth of culture that the US cannot equal, but I think we've also established that the US has natural wonders that Europe can only look on with awe. Therefore travel both ways across the Atlantic must be a good thing? Agreed? WD

 

Yes. I would suggest writing in rhymetic phrases is much like writing lyrics in musicals, therefore I would state Oscar Hammerstein was an equal to Bill Shakespeare. I'll add the Oscar did far more work in the theatre as well, owning and managing several productions simultaneously in all his theaters that Shakespeare didn't have to do.

[dockrocker]

We've decided that we would travel to far away places now, when we are physically able. Doing the great wall when we're 80 isn't a great idea.

 

:p So what do we do now? We cruise. haha:p

 

So book a cabin on the 3rd or 4th deck next to the medical center. Getting to the buffet via the stairs constitutes travel to a faraway place!

[dockrocker]

Yes. I would suggest writing in rhymetic phrases is much like writing lyrics in musicals, therefore I would state Oscar Hammerstein was an equal to Bill Shakespeare. I'll add the Oscar did far more work in the theatre as well, owning and managing several productions simultaneously in all his theaters that Shakespeare didn't have to do.

 

A little learning...

[cruisemom42]

I think some posting on this thread are being a bit Euro-centric, others perhaps focused more on the New World. I don't think any impartial archeologist would argue that at least the Inca and Maya civilizations rank up there with the great ancient civilizations of Egypt or some of the other early ancients. (Neither of which were in the area that is now the US, btw.) Whether or not they are the equals of the Greeks, who gave us philosophy, drama, and a democratic ideal can be debated .... ;) And of course there are the great early civilizations that are neither European nor American -- such as those in China and India.

 

The point, I think, that is being lost in this discussion is that some of us are not arguing that traveling in the US is either better or worse than traveling outside it. One should do both. It's a cliche, but travel really does broaden one's mind.

 

For the poster who asked what was wrong with not wanting to travel outside the US, my own opinion would be that it leads one to become insular. You only see the world from one viewpoint, and you only understand one "cultural" way of looking at a particular issue.

 

As an example: when I took my teen son to Japan for two weeks, he was amazed by this apparent contradiction in Japanese culture -- on the one hand, everything in the large cities is rush, rush, rush. Life moves at the speed of sound. On the other hand, the Japanese highly value a lot of traditional pastimes that put an emphasis on slow, careful, calm, repetitive actions (calligraphy, flower arranging, even some types of stylized martial arts). Some of the experiences he had in Japan that could not be duplicated here include staying in a traditional Japanese inn, having a lesson with an actual samurai swordsman (designated as a National Treasure), riding the bullet train, visiting a Samurai castle, and experiencing the crowded neon streets of Tokyo.

 

Please understand: I am not saying anyone has to travel or must travel or should want to travel. All I'm saying is that travel outside the US does provide some things that travel within the US cannot.

 

And count me among those who will not wait until retirement to travel. My grandmother did that, and she died at 68, three years after retiring. :( Also, I have seen far too many people on cruises who (due to age, infirmity, etc) cannot fully access the places I want to see -- places like Macchu Pichu or Petra or even the Acropolis which requires an ascent of nearly 200 steps.

[Warm Breezes]

And I sincerely hope it all works out as you planned. I've learned from the untimely and premature deaths of relatives and friends, and our increasingly obvious inability to control a lot of other factors in the world around us, that we don't always have the time we think we have. We also can't guarantee what kind of health we're going to be in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years from now, and despite our best planning, we don't have total control over what our funds will be then. So my spouse and I try to live our travel lives the way we live the rest of our lives -- not putting off things that are important to us waiting for a better or more convenient or more relaxed or wealthier time.

That's the point...you are doing the travel that is interests you now...just like I am doing the travel that interests me now. Sure I'd like to see the world someday...but if it doesn't happen I am ok with that too. There are too many places I want to see in the USA first. I only have so much time to travel right now. That's life. So I will fill my travel time going to places I currently want to see and right now, I have a long list of places right here in the USA on my wish list.

[dockrocker]

I think some posting on this thread are being a bit Euro-centric, others perhaps focused more on the New World...Also, I have seen far too many people on cruises who (due to age, infirmity, etc) cannot fully access the places I want to see -- places like Macchu Pichu or Petra or even the Acropolis which requires an ascent of nearly 200 steps.

 

A truly excellent post from start to finish. And I loved the bonus of your talking about your experiences in Japan, since last night my spouse and I started researching a trip there for next year.

[Mooder]

but great composers...

 

Hard to top Lennon and McCartney! ;)

[dockrocker]

Hard to top Lennon and McCartney! ;)

 

You got me there, girl.

[William Dean]

Yes. I would suggest writing in rhymetic phrases is much like writing lyrics in musicals, therefore I would state Oscar Hammerstein was an equal to Bill Shakespeare. I'll add the Oscar did far more work in the theatre as well, owning and managing several productions simultaneously in all his theaters that Shakespeare didn't have to do.

 

I'm afraid that if you are serious, you have lost any credibility with me. I'm sorry.

 

WD

[DMH15]

1:

Our favourite place? Italy (which we've visited a half dozen times).

While there, you suck up La Dolce Vita. :)

2:

We got us two kids and six grandkids near Dallas.

(In a few months we're takin' 'em to Great Wolf Lodge in Grapevine.)

 

1.

That's wonderful. I was curious. I have to say, of all of my cruise ports, excursions, etc. I adored the Amalfi Coast drive and my time in there the most wonderful of any. I found it so very special. I told my mother to go on without me and just send my things! Oh well, I carried on with the cruise anyway. But I adored that place!

2.

Have a great time in DFW. I have not visited GWL but have heard good things about it.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[William Dean]

Hard to top Lennon and McCartney! ;)

 

Who? ;)

[dockrocker]

Who? ;)

 

Ah, the Wings years were traumatic for your ears. Well, so they were for all of ours.

[DMH15]

P.S.

'course, more vacation => more travel, eh?

 

Ooh la la!!! I am feeling a little French today. I have a very generous vacation. Last year I had 39 days and this year I will have about the same. (Waiting for my little 2011 vacation card from HR, it might be 40 or more.)

 

I have worked here for 20 years. It was after about 15 years a lady joined our company from Uruguay and she took two weeks off to go home for a visit. I had never considered taking that much time off at once. But when the opportunity came for me to go on the Jewel TA from Miami to Athens, I asked for two weeks off and was gone 17 days counting weekends. Whoo hoo. Then in 2009 I was on the Sun for the SA 'Round the Horn cruise and was off for two weeks. I honestly have to say this is the way I love to vacation. You have an opportunity to really get R&R. With 7 days, it goes by so fast. I still love any getaway, even long weekends, but the long ones are the best!!!

[cruisemom42]

I just wanted to add that this is one of the most interesting threads that I've read and participated in on Cruise Critic in a long time. Great thoughts and ideas raised by many people without -- for the most part -- anyone taking serious offense. I have enjoyed all the contributions.

[Sea Monster 2]

I absolutely LOVE this thread-- I think it is the most interesting and thoughtful one I've seen on CC. I am concerned that it has deteriorated to "my version of culture is better/more valuable than your version of culture." Surely, as we are all travelers, we all realize that different people have different interests, and depths of interest, and that this is one of great things about seeing different places-- you never know what will tickle your culture buds!!! Even the experts often disagree on who or what is the "greatest" building/person/place/art/music etc. in a given specialty. I think instead of arguing about which is the greatest, we should discuss WHY they are great-- who knows, maybe we will motivate someone to explore something new!!

[Mooder]

Who? ;)

 

Ah, the Wings years were traumatic for your ears. Well, so they were for all of ours.

 

Copter!

[dockrocker]

Copter!

 

I feel certain that is hilarious, but I didn't get the reference!

[sjbdtz]

I think some posting on this thread are being a bit Euro-centric, others perhaps focused more on the New World. I don't think any impartial archeologist would argue that at least the Inca and Maya civilizations rank up there with the great ancient civilizations of Egypt or some of the other early ancients. (Neither of which were in the area that is now the US, btw.) Whether or not they are the equals of the Greeks, who gave us philosophy, drama, and a democratic ideal can be debated .... ;) And of course there are the great early civilizations that are neither European nor American -- such as those in China and India.

 

The point, I think, that is being lost in this discussion is that some of us are not arguing that traveling in the US is either better or worse than traveling outside it. One should do both. It's a cliche, but travel really does broaden one's mind.

 

For the poster who asked what was wrong with not wanting to travel outside the US, my own opinion would be that it leads one to become insular. You only see the world from one viewpoint, and you only understand one "cultural" way of looking at a particular issue.

 

As an example: when I took my teen son to Japan for two weeks, he was amazed by this apparent contradiction in Japanese culture -- on the one hand, everything in the large cities is rush, rush, rush. Life moves at the speed of sound. On the other hand, the Japanese highly value a lot of traditional pastimes that put an emphasis on slow, careful, calm, repetitive actions (calligraphy, flower arranging, even some types of stylized martial arts). Some of the experiences he had in Japan that could not be duplicated here include staying in a traditional Japanese inn, having a lesson with an actual samurai swordsman (designated as a National Treasure), riding the bullet train, visiting a Samurai castle, and experiencing the crowded neon streets of Tokyo.

 

Please understand: I am not saying anyone has to travel or must travel or should want to travel. All I'm saying is that travel outside the US does provide some things that travel within the US cannot.

 

And count me among those who will not wait until retirement to travel. My grandmother did that, and she died at 68, three years after retiring. :( Also, I have seen far too many people on cruises who (due to age, infirmity, etc) cannot fully access the places I want to see -- places like Macchu Pichu or Petra or even the Acropolis which requires an ascent of nearly 200 steps.

 

 

This is a fascinating thread. I'm feeling mildly guilty at my post which started the cross-continental confrontation, but the part of that post by Graphicguy(?) that I was really rebutting was the notion that one needn't look past one's borders, just because of the excellence within them.

 

Canada's native history, the history of the early traders, my own family (dad's side) came to Canada in 1646 (although my mother is an immigrant from Europe), the natural wonders of the Canadian shield, the Great Lakes, Niagara Falls, Quebec City, Signal Hill, and the vastness of the prairies are all incredible things which should be experienced by all Canadians.

 

The joie-de-vivre in Montreal, the multi-culturalism of Toronto, the Texas-ness of Alberta, and the dogged resiliance of the Quebecois.... Canada has completely different cultures in every province.

 

I was fortunate, as a younger man I worked for the railway for a few years, and benefited from free travel across the country.

 

Since then I've worked in jobs where I was a National Sales Rep (both US & Canada...in separate gigs). My North American travel has been predominately work-related, although I've always found time to explore new sites.

 

 

But despite having visited all of these places, it was during my couple of years as a global sales manager that I got to experience things which were entirely different.

 

 

 

Cruisemom: your Japanese experiences sound awesome. Wish I could have done some of those things.

 

Dockrocker: Just remember that each island in Japan has it's own culture, too...well, the 4 main islands, anyway.

 

 

 

Lastly, Hammerstein as an equal to Shakespeare???? LOL.

 

 

 

.

[Mooder]

I feel certain that is hilarious, but I didn't get the reference!

 

Not hilarious. Just my shorthand. Started out as ROFL (rolling on floor laughing), later evolved to ROFL-copter (rolling on floor laughing with arms and legs gyrating in the air). Now I just say copter. Sorry for the obscure abbreviation. :o

 

This shorthand works great on the boards, but then when fellow cruisers make you do it in the middle of the casino floor, one has regrets!

[faymuiheng]

For those of you who live in the lower mainland of Vancouver, you'll understand this implicitly. The lower mainland is divided into serveral cities and districts by bridges. Some of these bridges, (like the Lions Gate Bridge- it's the bridge you go under when leaving Vancouver port), are 3 lanes only. The middle lane changes direction following traffic flow.

 

Some people here, don't cross these bridges, either to work, play, or shop for groceries. It's a funny thing, and it's based on comfort level. The main argument, is that if the bridge is closed for one reason or another, you're stuck on the other side, and that could amount to several hours.

 

So I understand when people travel, why they choose the places they choose. Some don't want the hassle of taking a long flight, others prefer to visit places close to home. I totally understand.

[PJames]

This hatchet job of an article is a joke. America at 30% is more people than 70% of france. First off There is a reason why America is #1 in all things, HARD WORK.

 

Well ... not in all things, eh?

 

P.S.

Wanna see / experience somethin'?

How about the pyramids, the grand canyon, the Amalfi coast, Niagara Falls, The Roman coliseum, the Taj Mahal, the Great Wall of China, Machu Picchu

... and TexMex food!!