NCL Dawn limping from port to port

[halos]

Let's just keep track of Dawn until drydock and see if her problems are fixed.

I hope for everyone's sake (INCLUDING the crew) that she is OK until the dry dock.

It makes me very sad that people had such a bad experience immediately after I had my best cruise....I hope that the issue is fixed enough that the next group has as great a cruise as I did.

 

So many of us had such a fabulous time that 4 out of our group already plopped our Future Cruise Rewards deposits right back ON the Dawn.

[Dr. Jack Daniels]

So many of us had such a fabulous time that 4 out of our group already plopped our Future Cruise Rewards deposits right back ON the Dawn.

 

I was so unhappy with my recent 9 day Southern Caribbean cruise that I felt compelled to book an 11 Day cruise on her for next February.:p

[halos]

My wife and I will be sailing on her in November, she will be fresh out of dry dock and I hope in complete working order.

 

 

This also brings to mind something else.

She goes to dry dock sometime in May...Personally, I wouldn't knowingly book a cruise until about 4 weeks after she's back in the water. I know from a few Carnival threads that there are sometimes 'bugs' that need working out immediately following a dry dock. I sailed the Fantasy about a month after a dry dock..the cruises prior to mine caused quite a bit of complaining over on the Carnival boards from what I recall......

 

 

I was so unhappy with my recent 9 day Southern Caribbean cruise that I felt compelled to book an 11 Day cruise on her for next February.

 

I wish I could do that one too!!!!!

*sigh*

[tiggerfan616]

I was so unhappy with my recent 9 day Southern Caribbean cruise that I felt compelled to book an 11 Day cruise on her for next February.:p

 

I'm right along with you!!!

 

I figure with all these people who have promised never to sail NCL or the Dawn again we wont have to worry about chair hogs and maybe they wont run out of lime for my corona on the last day again:D

[Globaliser]

... but I'd bet money you can't produce a quote from a cruiseline brochure that says they "hope to get to" a certain port.

Here they are:-

Itinerary Changes

In the event of strikes, lockouts, stoppages of labor, riots, weather conditions, mechanical difficulties or any other reason whatsoever, NCL has the right to cancel, advance, postpone or substitute any scheduled sailing or itinerary without prior notice. NCL shall not be responsible for failure to adhere to published arrival and departure times for any of its ports of call. NCL may, but is not obliged to, substitute another vessel for any sailing and cannot be liable for any loss to passengers by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement or substitution. Reservations are subject to change or cancellation in the event of a full-ship charter, and in such event, NCL shall refund all passage moneys paid by the passenger.

 

6. Vessel and Voyage:

(a) Risk of Travel: The Guest admits and acknowledges that travel by ocean-going vessel occasionally presents risks and circumstances that may be beyond the ability of the Carrier to reasonably control or mitigate. The Guest's understanding includes all risks of travel, transportation, and handling of Guests and baggage. The Guest therefore assumes the risk of and releases the Carrier from any injury, loss, or damage whatsoever arising from, caused by, or in the judgment of the Carrier or Master rendered necessary or advisable by reason of: any act of God or public enemies; force majeure; arrest; restraints of governments or their departments or under color of law; piracy; war; revolution; extortion; terrorist actions or threats; hijacking; bombing; threatened or actual rebellion, insurrection, or civil strife; fire, explosion, collision, stranding or grounding; weather conditions; docking or anchoring difficulty; congestion; perils of the sea, rivers, canals, locks or other waters; perils of navigation of any kind; lack of water or passageway in canals; theft; accident to or from machinery, boilers, or latent defects (even though existing at embarkation or commencement of voyages); barratry; desertion or revolt of the crew; seizure of ship by legal process; strike, lockout or labor disturbance (regardless whether such strike, lockout or labor disturbance results from a dispute between the Carrier and its employees or any other parties); or from losses of any kind beyond the Carrier's control. Under any such circumstances the voyage may be altered, shortened, lengthened, or cancelled in whole or part without liability to the Carrier for a refund or otherwise.

 

© Itinerary Deviation: The Guest agrees that the Carrier has the sole discretion and liberty to direct the movements of the vessel, including the rights to: proceed without pilots and tow, and assist other vessels in all situations; deviate from the voyage or the normal course for any purpose, including, without limitation, in the interest of Guests or of the vessel, or to save life or property; put in at any unscheduled or unadvertised port; cancel any scheduled call at any port for any reason and at any time before, during or after sailing of the vessel; omit, advance or delay landing at any scheduled or advertised port; return to port of embarkation or to any port previously visited if the Carrier deems it prudent to do so; substitute another vessel or port(s) of call without prior notice and without incurring any liability to the Guest on account thereof for any loss, damage or delay whatsoever, whether consequential or otherwise.

If all that doesn't mean that the list of planned ports is a statement of hope rather than expectation, I don't know what is.

 

Of course, it's always true that if you choose to ignore all the things that say X, then you'd conclude that nowhere is X stated.

[swedish weave]

John,

I was on the same Dawn cruise and was very disappointed with the change in itinerary and the fact the we got $200 OBC! It annoys me that people who were in an inside cabin, we we're in a suite, received the exact same OBC amount! THEN on top of that we had to endure a fire on board late Thursday night. Imagine waking up and hearing that announcement.

Definitely my last cruise with Norwegian!

 

I was not aware that the Star had suites on decks 4 and 5. Or were other decks evacuated because of the fire ?

[oldguysandgalls]

November it is for us too.

Hopefully this Dawn "Punch and Judy Show" will be replaced with a fine banquet of glowing reports of a truly wonderful, spectacular, amazing and exquisite cruise through the Caribbean....

 

8 more months to go folks ! :)

(Guilty! Yes... we ARE eternal optimists) :D

 

My wife and I will be sailing on her in November, she will be fresh out of dry dock and I hope in complete working order.

[Sea Monster 2]

I'm very surprised that there are so many people in the world who have no expectations of service when they purchase something-- I wish my professional life was filled with people like them!! Life would be so easy!! :rolleyes: I think one thing that has been largely lost in this discussion is the fact that very few cruisers are members of CC, and most pax cruise only occasionally, or even just once or twice in their lives. I suspect that ports are a factor for this largest cruising population, because this is such a rare opportunity for them and they want to maximize it. People who have cruised the Caribbean umpteen times can afford to be blase about it, but for most cruisers I think it is a very special experience and they don't want to be disappointed because there may never be a "redo."

 

If the ports were not actually an integral part of cruising, as so many of you claim, wouldn't the cruise lines simply advertise "round trip from port X, perhaps with some stops in the middle?" That would truly reflect the ports-optional experience that so many of you seem to consider normal.

[Newleno]

I'm very surprised that there are so many people in the world who have no expectations of service when they purchase something-- I wish my professional life was filled with people like them!! Life would be so easy!! :rolleyes: I think one thing that has been largely lost in this discussion is the fact that very few cruisers are members of CC, and most pax cruise only occasionally, or even just once or twice in their lives. I suspect that ports are a factor for this largest cruising population, because this is such a rare opportunity for them and they want to maximize it. People who have cruised the Caribbean umpteen times can afford to be blase about it, but for most cruisers I think it is a very special experience and they don't want to be disappointed because there may never be a "redo."

 

If the ports were not actually an integral part of cruising, as so many of you claim, wouldn't the cruise lines simply advertise "round trip from port X, perhaps with some stops in the middle?" That would truly reflect the ports-optional experience that so many of you seem to consider normal.

 

thank you it seems like some just dont get it

[Fergus29]

To the previous poster who is going to see the mayan ruins at "end of calendar", cancel your cruise and fly in a few days earlier just in case there are flight issues. .

 

Extra bonus: Only have to buy one-way airfare! :rolleyes::p:eek:

.

 

Only took me a second to get it!:D

 

 

We are departing Miami on April 8th with our daughter and her boyfriend, and four US friends on the Dawn. We will be travelling all the way from Australia to participate in this cruise and have no intention of cancelling or changing our plans at all. Having come all this way, what would we do to fill in those nine nights that included transportation, room and board? I doubt that we would be able to get onto another ship in that sort of time frame, without spending a lot more money.

 

No. We are not going in with rose coloured glasses.

 

Yes. We are researching the ports we are scheduled to visit and have plans in each one.

 

Yes. We are looking forward to cruising in the Caribbean with beautiful ports and warm days.

 

To us this cruise is about the friends we will be travelling with, the experiences we will chalk up, the meals we will share and enjoy together, the many (many) drinks we will enjoy, and the whole atmosphere of being on a holiday and away from the humdrum and hassles of life at home. This is about being on a ship, at sea, and seeing places that we would not otherwise manage to see without the comfort and ease of going to bed each night and waking up in a new location. It's about having a laugh with your room steward and the other fantastic staff who do their best to ensure you have a great time, meeting the friends you have made on Cruise Critic and finally putting faces to names at the meet and greet, finding your way around and exploring all the areas available to us, seeing the shows, participating in the games and activities, and laughing at the Quest Game Show:) Isn't that what we cruise for?;)

 

You know, I totally understand the feelings of those people who missed out on ports, and I sympathise with them. They have a right to be angry and disappointed. A lot of work goes into choosing a cruise. Most of that work is based on choosing the ports of call, followed by dates and ship. It is certainly the case for us. We have a long way to go to see the sights that we want to, so we try to do those things that are on the top of our wish list. I would have been devastated not to have been able to visit St Petersburg on our Baltic Cruise. So guys, I hope that you will cruise again, and that next time will make up for the bitterness and disappointment you feel now.

 

I would like to think that NCL are going to to the best that they can to ensure that our cruise is a positive experience, with minimal or no hiccups. I myself will be making the best of what happens, and am fortunate enough to have six other people who will help to lessen the blow if it comes. It will still have been a cruise to the Caribbean for 9 nights with a group of people we love to bits, (with maybe a few hazy recollections from at the bar...).

[leekel619]

Only took me a second to get it!:D

 

 

We are departing Miami on April 8th with our daughter and her boyfriend, and four US friends on the Dawn. We will be travelling all the way from Australia to participate in this cruise and have no intention of cancelling or changing our plans at all. Having come all this way, what would we do to fill in those nine nights that included transportation, room and board? I doubt that we would be able to get onto another ship in that sort of time frame, without spending a lot more money.

 

No. We are not going in with rose coloured glasses.

 

Yes. We are researching the ports we are scheduled to visit and have plans in each one.

 

Yes. We are looking forward to cruising in the Caribbean with beautiful ports and warm days.

 

To us this cruise is about the friends we will be travelling with, the experiences we will chalk up, the meals we will share and enjoy together, the many (many) drinks we will enjoy, and the whole atmosphere of being on a holiday and away from the humdrum and hassles of life at home. This is about being on a ship, at sea, and seeing places that we would not otherwise manage to see without the comfort and ease of going to bed each night and waking up in a new location. It's about having a laugh with your room steward and the other fantastic staff who do their best to ensure you have a great time, meeting the friends you have made on Cruise Critic and finally putting faces to names at the meet and greet, finding your way around and exploring all the areas available to us, seeing the shows, participating in the games and activities, and laughing at the Quest Game Show:) Isn't that what we cruise for?;)

 

You know, I totally understand the feelings of those people who missed out on ports, and I sympathise with them. They have a right to be angry and disappointed. A lot of work goes into choosing a cruise. Most of that work is based on choosing the ports of call, followed by dates and ship. It is certainly the case for us. We have a long way to go to see the sights that we want to, so we try to do those things that are on the top of our wish list. I would have been devastated not to have been able to visit St Petersburg on our Baltic Cruise. So guys, I hope that you will cruise again, and that next time will make up for the bitterness and disappointment you feel now.

 

I would like to think that NCL are going to to the best that they can to ensure that our cruise is a positive experience, with minimal or no hiccups. I myself will be making the best of what happens, and am fortunate enough to have six other people who will help to lessen the blow if it comes. It will still have been a cruise to the Caribbean for 9 nights with a group of people we love to bits, (with maybe a few hazy recollections from at the bar...).

Nice viewpoints. We'll be on the Dawn in May...after the dry dock.

I can't wait!!

[CruisinGerman]

Globaliser, first of all, despite my screen name, I live and practice law in Madrid and Barcelona, Spain.

 

My legal analyses always refer to Spain. Sometimes I quote the UK versions of the cruise contracts because Cruise Critic is an English speaking message board.

 

Spain's version of the Package Travel Directive was updated a few years ago and was written into a new law called "Law for the Defense of Consumers and End-Users". In this law, the definition of package has been liberalized and now basically includes nearly anything except purchasing airline tickets from an Internet Portal (that will probably come in the next revision, since the last time the law was updated it was not a popular way to purchase tickets).

 

The clauses you always quote are the U.S. clauses. Those clauses basically say that the cruise line can do anything and is not liable.

 

In the UK version of the cruise contracts (I refer to the RCCL contract because NCL seems to publish the same U.S. contract on all of its worldwide websites), it also says that the cruise line sometimes must change itineraries and ports and can change itineraries and ports.

 

However, unlike the U.S. contract, the UK (and EU) contract goes on to elaborate the circumstances (because they are prescribed by law) under which the cruise line must indeed provide compensation and take responsibility.

 

The UK contract then goes on to say that the cruise line will not take responsibility and assume liability for things beyond its control (weather and sudden, unforeseen circumstances).

 

In another clause it goes on to explain that a mechanical difficulty that is foreseen or foreseeable is indeed a circumstance that is within the scope of the cruise line's liability.

 

Furthermore, under EU travel law, whatever is written in a brochure is also considered contractual, which is why in RCCL's UK contract the cruise line makes sure to say that a consumer must look at the most recent brochure, which can always be accessed at such and such address.

 

Finally, under Spanish consumer law (and this is especially true in matters of banking and travel), there are a certain set of clauses that are considered abusive by law and are automatically thrown out and considered void, whether or not the consumer signed anyway, or whether or not the consumer acquiesced by taking the trip.

 

In any case, this thread is really not a matter of analyzing the legal details of each jurisdiction.

 

It is about somebody purchasing a cruise and having a reasonable expectation of being taken to the ports scheduled on the itinerary, on a ship that is in working order.

 

You seem to deny that a passenger has that reasonable expectation, which is what I find surprising about your posts.

 

Sure things happen, but a good company takes responsibility for those things, no matter what it purports to exclude in its contracts.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Tanless]

Spain's version of the Package Travel Directive was updated a few years ago and was written into a new law called "Law for the Defense of Consumers and End-Users". In this law, the definition of package has been liberalized and now basically includes nearly anything except purchasing airline tickets from an Internet Portal (that will probably come in the next revision, since the last time the law was updated it was not a popular way to purchase tickets).

 

 

Wow - seems like the US got gipped on the contracts thing. If the ship turn out to be a lemon, we just keep rowing the lifeboat and remembering any day at sea beats a day at work (not really true - have had some Great days at work).

[tiggerfan616]

I think one thing that has been largely lost in this discussion is the fact that very few cruisers are members of CC, and most pax cruise only occasionally, or even just once or twice in their lives..

 

It is truly amazing how many cruisers are not members before the go, but when the "ship" hits the fan they manage to find their way here!

[david_sobe]

I'm very surprised that there are so many people in the world who have no expectations of service when they purchase something-- I wish my professional life was filled with people like them!! Life would be so easy!! :rolleyes: I think one thing that has been largely lost in this discussion is the fact that very few cruisers are members of CC, and most pax cruise only occasionally, or even just once or twice in their lives. I suspect that ports are a factor for this largest cruising population, because this is such a rare opportunity for them and they want to maximize it. People who have cruised the Caribbean umpteen times can afford to be blase about it, but for most cruisers I think it is a very special experience and they don't want to be disappointed because there may never be a "redo."

 

If the ports were not actually an integral part of cruising, as so many of you claim, wouldn't the cruise lines simply advertise "round trip from port X, perhaps with some stops in the middle?" That would truly reflect the ports-optional experience that so many of you seem to consider normal.

Excellent points

I just think those stating OBC is satisfying for a broken ship and missed ports is a bit crazy. Only 10% discount on a future cruise? LOL

I would bet if you could do a poll of people on the Dawn, the overwhelming majority would choose the ports over a 10% discount and OBC. I also think the majority of people on this board would feel the same. I love NCL but am not that brand loyal to not stick up for passengers who spend hard earned money on a cruise. OBC is not a refund. It is ship money that must be spent on the ship. A 10% discount is hardly anything.

[halos]

November it is for us too.

Hopefully this Dawn "Punch and Judy Show" will be replaced with a fine banquet of glowing reports of a truly wonderful, spectacular, amazing and exquisite cruise through the Caribbean....

 

8 more months to go folks ! :)

(Guilty! Yes... we ARE eternal optimists) :D

 

I'm sure, come November if we look around the CC boards we'll find an exact replica of this thread somewhere about another ship....and maybe one or two in between now and then.

 

I hope your Nov cruise on the Dawn is spectacular :)

[david_sobe]

One thing I forgot to post.

It is important to remember that the Dawn has had several engine problems for almost a year. This is not a sudden and unexpected break down. It is a risk to take a cruise on a ship like this. But NCL kept selling and sailing the Dawn.

Therefore, this is the reason I dont go for the normal remedies of OBC or a tiny discount on a future cruise. A cruise line must stand behind the intregrity of their ships and statements about those ships.

I am sure many who booked the cruise were reassured by NCL that the broken engine was not a problem.

I am not sure what the remedy is but a 10% discount on a future cruise that many will not take is not one of them.

[halos]

One thing I forgot to post.

It is important to remember that the Dawn has had several engine problems for almost a year. This is not a sudden and unexpected break down. It is a risk to take a cruise on a ship like this. But NCL kept selling and sailing the Dawn.

Therefore, this is the reason I dont go for the normal remedies of OBC or a tiny discount on a future cruise. A cruise line must stand behind the intregrity of their ships and statements about those ships.

I am sure many who booked the cruise were reassured by NCL that the broken engine was not a problem.

I am not sure what the remedy is but a 10% discount on a future cruise that many will not take is not one of them.

 

What you are saying makes 100% sense.

The issue is that this is not only the Dawn and it is not only NCL.

 

Because I have been a member of CC for a billion years and have the 5000+ posts that some people scorn, I have been around long enough to know that this happens ALL the time on every line.

 

In my heart and in my head, I believe that the cruise lines do their best, in the best way they can to do the right thing. I think people think it's simple to just take a ship out of commission and 'fix it. And i think they are mistaken.

 

The cruise lines are not out to allienate people. They choose the best of the options available in a no win situation.

 

Back in 2006 when the Celebrity Infinity sailed for months limping, I was irate as well. I didn't understand it...but I realized that there is more to it than just pulling a massive ship out of operation to fix it.

Because I love cruising for the sake of being on the sea, I accept this. IF I were a person who sailed more for the ports, knowing what I know and understand now, there is an absolute certainty that I would not be cruising for my vacation time.

 

This is about knowledge, the power that comes with it and knowing and understanding exactly what you are buying.

[leekel619]

What you are saying makes 100% sense.

The issue is that this is not only the Dawn and it is not only NCL.

 

Because I have been a member of CC for a billion years and have the 5000+ posts that some people scorn, I have been around long enough to know that this happens ALL the time on every line.

 

In my heart and in my head, I believe that the cruise lines do their best, in the best way they can to do the right thing. I think people think it's simple to just take a ship out of commission and 'fix it. And i think they are mistaken.

 

The cruise lines are not out to allienate people. They choose the best of the options available in a no win situation.

 

Back in 2006 when the Celebrity Infinity sailed for months limping, I was irate as well. I didn't understand it...but I realized that there is more to it than just pulling a massive ship out of operation to fix it.

Because I love cruising for the sake of being on the sea, I accept this. IF I were a person who sailed more for the ports, knowing what I know and understand now, there is an absolute certainty that I would not be cruising for my vacation time.

 

This is about knowledge, the power that comes with it and knowing and understanding exactly what you are buying.

 

I agree:). In reality I don't think it happens that often that ports are missed anyhow, when you look at the big picture and the constant sails worldwide. If that were the case we'd have an uprising on CC.

 

Also, I agree with an earlier statement that not many cruisers are on CC or even know about it. When you look at a roll call for instance... and know they're weekly and most sailings have X number of passengers per week, you see that only about 20-50 average, if that, are online, or interested in their roll call. That's just one tiny example.

 

I love cruise critic and all my interesting reading and tips I get about cruising! (and lots of other things...! I have a folder of things I copy and paste:rolleyes:) I use that power of knowledge.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to invalidate someone's upset of missed ports. That's what cruise critic is here for. People to talk about what they like or not about their cruising experience.

 

Thanks for your comments:)

 

~Cindy

[swedish weave]

I read with interest all of the rants, complaints, and suggestions for legal remedies for the recovery of money spent for the cruise.

 

No one has addressed the cost of taking their complaints through the legal system and the much greater cost of handling this as individuals. Since the contract prohibits class action, a trip through the legal jungle would enhance a lawyer's ability to live a much better life !!

[Squidward Q Tentacles]

If you owned a cruise ship and new it had engine troubles but was still able to cruise at 75% speed and new to fix it would take 2 weeks down time what would you do?

 

You have thousands of passengers booked on the ship at any given day for the next 12 months.

 

Would just cancel everyone for a three week period and refund them their money, or would you pick a three week period in the future and not sell any cruise packages for that period?

[oldguysandgalls]

How true halos...how very true. But the upside is we have seven seas with many, many cruise ships and many, many happy passengers just like you and us and.... a few 100,000's like us.

 

Spectacularly Happy Cruisers here...just like you halos and a few 100,000 or so happy cruisers just like us :)

 

Don't ever change halos, your posts are a joy and an ispiration to read and to book another cruise, oh wait..we already did. :D

 

 

I'm sure, come November if we look around the CC boards we'll find an exact replica of this thread somewhere about another ship....and maybe one or two in between now and then.

 

I hope your Nov cruise on the Dawn is spectacular :)

[ussenterprise]

If you owned a cruise ship and new it had engine troubles but was still able to cruise at 75% speed and new to fix it would take 2 weeks down time what would you do?

 

You have thousands of passengers booked on the ship at any given day for the next 12 months.

 

Would just cancel everyone for a three week period and refund them their money, or would you pick a three week period in the future and not sell any cruise packages for that period?

 

Personally, I'd cancel (obvoiusly with a full refund and percentage off another cruise), get the ship into dry dock and fix it. Probably lose some customers, but you'll lose some anyway if you keep missing ports (regardless of what the contract says, some people are just never happy) and others will understand and reschedule.

[halos]

Personally, I'd cancel (obvoiusly with a full refund and percentage off another cruise), get the ship into dry dock and fix it. Probably lose some customers, but you'll lose some anyway if you keep missing ports (regardless of what the contract says, some people are just never happy) and others will understand and reschedule.

 

 

LOL...easy as pie huh??

 

 

Oh my.....

[swedish weave]

OK...so if we are discussing hypotheticals, if it is acceptable to sail a cruise ship with only two working engines out of four, can the same be said for an airplane with four engines?

 

How about one engine? Is it OK to sail with only one working engine as well?

 

Oh my beloved NCL Dawn....how far you have fallen....

 

If you are talking about safety, it is perfectly safe to sail with one engine working. Maybe not the comfort you are seeking on a cruise ship, but safe.

 

The four engines pull generators capable of producing 58.8 total mega-watts of power, and the propulsion motors use 20 mega-watts each at full speed.

 

The redundancy of the power systems allow sailing at full speed with all other systems working with three of the engines running. Therefore, it does not hinder the operation of the ship when one engine or generator fails. The available power with two of the engines down is not enough to run at full speed and power the other systems on the ship, but it is still safe.

 

I hope this helps with your questions.