Black Label Photography

[JohnoUK1]

It is illegal to copy professional work regardless of whether or not you paid for a copy of it. You own the print, you do not own the image. The image belongs to the Photographer unless he gives up the right to it. It's called "Copyright Release".

 

Using an image of someone in an ad is a different story. If you're referring to the scenario where the folks got the card through the door with the image of their Grandkids then it is perfectly legal for the Photographer to use that image without asking permission. Cruise lines have legal disclaimers on their passage contracts that state any still or video images that are captured on board the vessel can be used for any purpose without permission. If the images were shot specifically for use in advertizing them they would have obtained model releases, but in this scenario, legally, they are not required.

 

In the above scenario, these folks simply copied an image that they hadn't even bought in the first place and it's still sitting in their living room in a frame! It still doesn't belong to them!

 

As far as a spa comment goes . . . . . well . . . . . apples to oranges again.

 

Everyone has a choice. Don't try to cheapen the product because you personally think it's expensive. Relative value is purely up to the individual. It's not for everyone. If it were, everyone would drive the same cars and live in the same houses!

[SAN415]

I have sold a few photos. landscapes for the most part. I have also sold some other types of art work.

I feel that if the photographer used pictures from a formal sitting to make an add, he or she should have asked and paid for the use of the kids modeling for them. I also have a problem with using children in adds as opposed to adults with out permission. I would have a fit if my kids or my granddaughter was in an add with out permission. Unless they are not likely to be recognized, ie: from the back.

If they sent an add to my home, they gave me that image on the add. I will do what I want with the add and the image that they gave me.

[caltnl]

You are right I did a no no but when the DW tells you she wants it What do you do?

[TV Dad]

I didn't intend to sound snarky (don't know what that word means, but I gotta admit I like it ).

 

Guess I am just baffeled that if something is so expensive, unless one is required, why one would still buy it. It's a photo...not exactly a necessity like food.

 

My sincere apoligies if I offended you, but I didn't intend to sound nasty.

 

-Matt

 

Gunther -- You did sound snarky. . . but you were quite the gentleman in apologizing. And you're right, snarky is such a cool word! So allow me to snark for a moment!

 

Even the $25 8x10s they push on you during portrait nights are overpriced in my mind. AND YET -- I end up buying 5-6 of them every cruise.

 

No-one holds a gun to my head. However, my daughter and her mom insist they have to have them. . . which may be worse than someone holding a gun to my head!! :D Just saying!

[BumperII]

That is the nice part of being homily. One more wrinkle one way or the other doesn't make much difference. I'm not the least bit interested in spending money to save this image for posterity. :D

[Boytjie]

I feel that if the photographer used pictures from a formal sitting to make an add, he or she should have asked and paid for the use of the kids modeling for them. I also have a problem with using children in adds as opposed to adults with out permission. I would have a fit if my kids or my granddaughter was in an add with out permission. Unless they are not likely to be recognized, ie: from the back.

If they sent an add to my home, they gave me that image on the add. I will do what I want with the add and the image that they gave me.

 

Was it an ad used all over the ship or one personalized card with the picture of their grandkids on it delivered to their cabin only?

[paulista1950]

Was it an ad used all over the ship or one personalized card with the picture of their grandkids on it delivered to their cabin only?

 

 

"Everyone has a choice. Don't try to cheapen the product because you personally think it's expensive"

I'm not trying to cheapen anything and I totally agree on relative value is purely up to the individual.

 

"As far as a spa comment goes . . . . . well . . . . . apples to oranges again"

May be so, but.... don't try to cheapen the product because you personally think it's expensive :D

What I was trying to say is:

Many people go to a bar, ask for a drink without asking it's price.

Everybody knows how much it's expected to cost. In a ship let's say from

7 to 11 dollars, right? Wouldn't you feel outraged if charged 50?

 

And I know, different situations, but my point is: relative value is purely up to the individual, BUT 99.99% of people would agree 50 bucks for a Martini is using the OP's expression highway robbery and, just IMHO, the same applies to $375 for 2 8x10s .

[SAN415]

Was it an ad used all over the ship or one personalized card with the picture of their grandkids on it delivered to their cabin only?

 

I don't think it matters, if someone gives you something, it's yours to use, keep or toss, as you see fit.

I am sure they are hoping that seeing the teaser that they gave yo will make you order from the rest of the sitting. I think people probably do just that, and change their mind and go back and purchase a package.

 

It's a risk that they must feel is worth it. But the teaser photo now belongs to the people they gave or sent it to. If they didn't want the goodwill of the use of the photo they would have put a transparent watermark on the picture.

[Boytjie]

I don't think it matters, if someone gives you something, it's yours to use, keep or toss, as you see fit.

I am sure they are hoping that seeing the teaser that they gave yo will make you order from the rest of the sitting. I think people probably do just that, and change their mind and go back and purchase a package.

 

It's a risk that they must feel is worth it. But the teaser photo now belongs to the people they gave or sent it to. If they didn't want the goodwill of the use of the photo they would have put a transparent watermark on the picture.

 

You missed my point: did they use the kids' picture as a general ad or a once only for that particular family. If it is a once only for that family I don't see how getting permission is a big issue.

[catl331]

You are right I did a no no but when the DW tells you she wants it What do you do?

IMO you did nothing wrong. Just like anything else that is sent to you in the mail unsolicited, the sender gave you the right to do whatever you like with the image - including enlarging it.

[caltnl]

The card appeared on our dresser in the cabin.

 

And DW framed the card and it sits on her dresser.

 

Have to say I agree that it was a gift for us to use as we wished.

Edited May 15, 2011 by caltnl

[SAN415]

Sorry Boytjie,

I didn't know if it was an add that was only for the op. And yes that does make a difference. I see that they have responded that the card was left in their cabin so perhaps the add is specific to each individual. Probably that would be the case, only makes sense. So I guess its acceptable for them to use the kids as models.

[Zoey1]

I've often wondered about the Black Label pictures. Usually, I hate any pictures taken of me and my husband isn't thrilled with his either. This has been a great money saver for us.

 

However, we would be willing to pay for a really good picture. Has anyone else who feels this way tried Black Label? I'd be really interested in hearing what you think.

 

Marnie

 

Marnie, DH and I are exactly the same but we figured what the heck let's see what she comes up with and they are really lovely/arty type shots, count us in for getting suckered punched for 6 pics, hope when they arrive we like them as much as we thought we did there..lol

[BruceMuzz]

Yes, we did it too,and purchased $550 of pics! We really suffered sticker shock. We did submit a comment to Holland America and got no response, zero, zilch. At least you got some action. I think they would get twice the number of purchasers and twice the number of happy purchasers if they lowered their prices by half!

 

I think that the Ferrari company would get twice the number of purchasers and twice the number of happy purchasers if they lowered their prices by half!

 

I think that McDonalds would get twice the number of purchasers and twice the number of happy purchasers if they lowered their prices by half!

 

I thnk that the airlines would get twice the number of purchasers and twice the number of happy purchasers if they lowered their prices by half!

 

I think it's a crying shame that people like us - who really know how the world should be run - are too busy taking cruises and posting on Cruisecritic, while those know-nothings are in charge of everything instead.

[paulista1950]

Ferraris right to charge what they want for their cars,

McDonalds right to charge what they want for their food.

airlines right to charge what they want for their flights and

photographer's right to charge what they want for their photos

 

But that being said, I'd like to ask BruceMuzz:

How much does it cost Ferrari's a car?

How much does it cost McDonalds a burger?

How much does it cost an airline a flight?

How much does a photo costs to a photographer?

 

I really don't know how the world should be run, but I know when a price is exaggerated big time, don't you?

[BruceMuzz]

Ferraris right to charge what they want for their cars,

McDonalds right to charge what they want for their food.

airlines right to charge what they want for their flights and

photographer's right to charge what they want for their photos

 

But that being said, I'd like to ask BruceMuzz:

How much does it cost Ferrari's a car?

How much does it cost McDonalds a burger?

How much does it cost an airline a flight?

How much does a photo costs to a photographer?

 

I really don't know how the world should be run, but I know when a price is exaggerated big time, don't you?

 

Mario,

 

Perhaps you don't really know when a photo price is being exaggerated big time.

 

Those Black and White photos must be hand printed and hand developed in large quantities of photo chemistry.

When you buy a black and white photo at Walmart, they just dump the used chemistry down the drain when they are finished. It costs them nearly nothing.

On my ship we must pay local waste handlers US$85 per gallon to dispose of our waste chemistry. Last cruise we disposed of 850 gallons at a cost of over US$72,000.

Should we increase your cruise price, or the price of your drink to pay for that, or should we charge the people who want the photos?

 

By the way, the cost of making a McDonalds burger is the same as the selling price.

A large Coke at McDonalds costs less than 5 cents to make and they charge you $2.

Edited August 4, 2011 by BruceMuzz

[K&RCurt]

As far as I am concerned the Black label photos are very much overpriced. But then, so is just about everything else you buy on a cruise ship. You are paying not only for the quality of the photos but also for the extra costs of doing the photography, processing, review of photos etc within a compressed time frame.

 

When our DDs were at the end of their Jr years of HS we had their "graduation" photos taken by a local photographer. The actual taking of the photos in his studio was a bit over an hour, and he took a ton of pictures. It was over a month between the time the photos were taken and when the proofs were ready to be reviewed. We selected the proofs we wanted printed and if was another month and a half before they were ready. The total cost (sitting fee plus photos purchased) was around $500.00. Now this included many more photos than you would received from Black Label for the same price BUT we didn't get the photos until almost 3 months after they were taken!

 

Our DDs are a year apart in age / class year. When the time came for DD #2 to have her graduation photos taken we went by the photographer's studio to make an appointment. He had just started advertising that it was time to make graduation photo appointments. We walk up to his studio...and in the window is a framed 16' x 20" photo of DD#1 as part of the ad campaign. We understood (unlike some here on this thread) that as he took the photo, he owned the copyright. Rather than being upset, we were delighted that he decided to use her photo in that manner. Even better, he offered to sell it to us at a huge discount once he was done with the ad campaign. Actually it was fun for a couple months when everyone in town had to tell us "We saw Allie in the window at the photo studio".

 

One other note, to the person who scanned and enlarged to photo from a postcard. You said that DW wanted it, so what could you do? You COULD say "No honey, it's illegal to steal material protected by copyright laws". Everyone comes across as up in arms when stories of Chinese manufacturers making counterfeit goods, violating trademark and copyright laws are reported. Yet, when they are called on violating the same set of laws, brush it off saying they they felt that they should have the right to use other's work. If you are anywhere outside of your own home OR if even if you allow someone to take photos of you IN your home...ANY photo taken of you is the property of the photographer. U.S. and International copyright law is VERY clear on this. You can not copy any photo for any use without permission of the copyright owner.

[paulista1950]

Mario,

 

Perhaps you don't really know when a photo price is being exaggerated big time.

 

On my ship we must pay local waste handlers US$85 per gallon to dispose of our waste chemistry. Last cruise we disposed of 850 gallons at a cost of over US$72,000.

Should we increase your cruise price, or the price of your drink to pay for that, or should we charge the people who want the photos? .

 

I'd have never imagined this,:eek: tks for the info.

[jkrislc]

I do think the photos were very artistic and are well produced based on the samples I viewed. However, I wasn't thrilled with the photographer who didn't seem to have much experience with small children (or was having an off day). In addition, she didn't listen to our requests; as a result, when we viewed the final photos there were very few that we actually wanted and didn't like enough of them to form a package.

 

I knew the costs going in, so I can't say that I was shocked or surprised when I was told the price as I had seen this thread before leaving for our cruise. I just wish we had had a better experience with the photographer.

[jschm27]

OK. This question is sorta on track. I have an expensive camara that I intend to use to take photos of our family and friends at various places on ship including the MDR. I know the ship's photog roams around and takes photos that you can purchase. I don't think I am violating any rules by doing this but I am violating some unwritten cruise unwritten rule? I did it once before and no one said anything.

 

John

[RuthC]

OK. This question is sorta on track. I have an expensive camara that I intend to use to take photos of our family and friends at various places on ship including the MDR. I know the ship's photog roams around and takes photos that you can purchase. I don't think I am violating any rules by doing this but I am violating some unwritten cruise unwritten rule? I did it once before and no one said anything.

People take photos on the ship all the time---both of the ship, and of people posed in front of chosen settings. I don't see taking pictures in the dining room as being any different.

I would not take pictures of people posed in front of the photographers backdrops, however. That does seem to cross a line.

[Bearnaise]

How much does a photo costs to a photographer?

 

I really don't know how the world should be run, but I know when a price is exaggerated big time, don't you?

You could say the exact same thing about the auction art. How much does canvas and paint cost? $50 at most? So why do they want thousands for a painting?

 

Clearly some people believe that art has intrinsic value beyond the cost of the physical components.

[dylan63]

I've got some questions and some comments about Black Label Photography.

 

Is it available on all cruises?

 

Is the price list available on request? I can't see why it shouldn't be.

 

Is hair and makeup done?

 

How do you pay for it?

 

Is there a disc of photos offered too?

 

I've just looked at my local (Australian) Starshots Photography prices (this looks to be a similar product) and they charge AUD $49 single, $79 couple and $99 family for makeup, hair and sitting fees and the price for the actual photos/art work start at $225 for an unframed 8 x 10 photo. I don't think they sell a disc of photos.

 

From the prices that people have quoted on here Black Label appears to work out less expensive.

 

From the images that I've seen here and on HAL's facebook discussion about this, the Black Label product appears to be much, much better than those discount/department store family photo shoots.

[jschm27]

I would not take pictures of people posed in front of the photographers backdrops, however. That does seem to cross a line.

 

RuthC - Yah, that would be pretty tacky. Hmmm.... Not a bad idea. :D

 

John

 

PS: Just kidding everyone.

[localady]

Where the photos that my family had taken by Black Label expensive?

Absolutely! ;)

But priceless is the fact that I actually got the entire family to sit through the session, with spectacular results that made even me look good! :D