Why do we pay more for the SAME cruises?

[Charlie Chan]

If you book in Australia, you are covered by IATA if the agent is a member. This supposedly covers you if the TA is insolvent however a US poster on another thread said this was virtually useless. I was very impressed the time we booked with a US agent as the money went directly to HAL - not sitting in an AUS account for months. Unfortunately, we could not join that cruise because of the volcanic ash problems last year (stuck in Singapore), but all of our final boarding documentation had been issued by HAL and our AUS travel insurance refunded all costs.

 

The quoted fares in Australia do not cover gratuities. (We personally follow all US guidelines with regard to tipping.)

 

There have been some changes since HAL established its own office in Australia. We are on a 25 trans Pacific cruise at the end of the month and the price is virtually the same as in the US (we booked with a local agent). I think HAL is more negotiable on prices if the cruise is not super popular. Alaska is very popular with North Americans so there is no need to offer comparable prices to fill the ships on that route. We have contacted HAL in Australia about these unfair practices and they simply said it was a regional pricing policy. We also love HAL and will be 3 star mariners during our next cruise but cannot continue to cruise with them if the prices remain inflated. We have written numerous letters to newspapers, cruise magazines etc and can only encourage others to join in the battle.

 

I have researched a number of US agents who still maintain they can book people from outside North America. It's worth following Fannish's advice here. Apparently, they may be prepared to forgo the commission. We had no problems last year - but maybe things have changed since then.

 

I was able to check the prices of cruises while coming home this year. In Rome, the HAL site was a little more expensive, but in Singapore, it was priced in US dollars and identical to the US prices. So there is no logic involved.

[Bippie]

No answer, but you should also know that in the USA, you can be quoted different prices in different states. HAL and a few other cruise lines occasionally run regional specials based on the passenger's state of residency. When I can't access one of those fares, I feel exactly the same way you do.

 

I have not encountered this situation as much lately but have seen these price discrepancies in the past.

[Joy R]

We too have booked cruises with UK travel agents, and found the prices to be higher than those quoted in the US. We can't go to the cruise company's US site, all prices on their websites available to us are quoted in pounds sterling. What we have done is gone to a US (or for our forthcoming cruise, a Canadian) travel agent, who told us we have to have a US address. We have friends in the States who were happy for us to give their address, and that is what we have done. As the checking in and documentation process is all done online and by e- mail it makes no difference where we live! That way we get the lower price, can (and have) been able to benefit from a price drop before final payment, would not have lost our deposit if we had cancelled or changed, etc.

 

We also are free to arrange our own flights, transfers, etc. at times and places to suit us, which we could not have done if we had booked from here. Most of the cruises sold here are in "packages", especially the ones that involve flying, and on our first cruise, when we were novices and booked such a package, the hotel we were booked into overnight before the cruise, while nice, was very inconveniently located - no nice places to go for dinner, for example. And our journey home after the cruise was a nightmare! This way is a bit more effort, but I can do my research, book flights and hotels to suit us, and it also comes out cheaper.

 

But I agree - it seems grossly unfair that Australians and Europeans are penalised in this way.

[SunnyinDubai]

It is also not just the prices as well - the booking conditions are unfair to us as well - higher deposits which are non refundable even if we are way outside the cancellation period and don't even think about getting price drops. :( I recall when we cruised in 2010, we asked if we could move out cruise to the following year - postponing - not cancelling in full - and we were told it was going to cost us the deposit and a change fee - so we decided to not postpone...only to hear that HAL was offering people who had booked in the US incentives to cancel their trip and rebook another one...coz they had oversold...and it was available t to us here in Australia. Where is the logic in that - we were prepared to postpone our trip at no additional cost to HAL but HAL was then paying people to postpone their trip - go figure :confused:

[g-didi]

As the checking in and documentation process is all done online and by e- mail it makes no difference where we live! That way we get the lower price, can (and have) been able to benefit from a price drop before final payment, would not have lost our deposit if we had cancelled or changed, etc.

 

I havent taken a cruise yet - how does this documentation process work? Check in online and then you just have a your ID checked before you board to prove you are who you say you are? (not a check to see that you reside somewhere specific?) One poster mentioned proving residency by way of a library card?

 

I live in Canada and have booked via a US online agent. I chose this agency after getting some bids from other agents via a certain website. I might have just booked online, but decided to make contact with the agency to follow up on a few questions (like who would process my CC etc.) I phoned the agent, asked some questions and let her know I wished to book a room for 3 of us from Canada and then a second room for a resident of South Africa - possibly 2 people, but for now just one. I (using my Canadian card) would be paying for all of the bookings. No problem, she took our booking, charged the deposits on my card. (2 bookings because it seems you cant put multiple cabins under one booking.)

 

Now I read this thread and am a bit perplexed. Are we likely to encounter any problems with two different residencies?

[fann1sh]

I seriously doubt you will find a US Travel Agent that will book your cruise unless one when you do your on line check in you state you have a US or Canadian residence and can prove it when you state you have a Australian Passport.

 

Lisa, I can't imagine an agent risking doing the work and not getting paid.

 

This CEO (who didn't impress me at all - but it was mutual!) claims their competing cruise agents do it all the time. :eek:

 

g-didi- Lisa's the one who really knows the answer. My suspicion: the issue will never come up.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I havent taken a cruise yet - how does this documentation process work? Check in online and then you just have a your ID checked before you board to prove you are who you say you are? (not a check to see that you reside somewhere specific?) One poster mentioned proving residency by way of a library card?

 

I live in Canada and have booked via a US online agent. I chose this agency after getting some bids from other agents via a certain website. I might have just booked online, but decided to make contact with the agency to follow up on a few questions (like who would process my CC etc.) I phoned the agent, asked some questions and let her know I wished to book a room for 3 of us from Canada and then a second room for a resident of South Africa - possibly 2 people, but for now just one. I (using my Canadian card) would be paying for all of the bookings. No problem, she took our booking, charged the deposits on my card. (2 bookings because it seems you cant put multiple cabins under one booking.)

 

Now I read this thread and am a bit perplexed. Are we likely to encounter any problems with two different residencies?

Living in Canada you have absolutely nothing to worry about for you :) but the person from South Africa if booking a HAL or Princess cruise will in fact be a problem. The agent that took the booking most likely did not realize. HAL will not pay the agency a dime in commission and if they offered any discount that agency could in fact be in the hole and will be wanting to collect extra money from you.

Now if the person from South Africa was in a cabin with you from Canada then there is no problem at all and I would almost suspect that if the agent/agency knows what they are doing this is what they did or should do and you can later once you have checked in to the ship go to the front desk and change cabins. You may want to check who's name is on which booking number.

Also depending on where you are cruising the person from South Africa may need to check on Visas as well.

[g-didi]

We are up on the visa requirements.

 

When booking I was clear to the agent who would be in which cabin. Our booking shows 3 Canadians in one and the other cabin has the SAfrican in it. At the bottom of the invoice it shows that this booking is travelling with the other booking. SO long story short, the Canadian is not in the same cabin as the SAfrican..... I am actually the person purchasing the cruise for the South African. My money, my billing address etc.

 

I am guessing you suggest we switch someone from the one cabin to the other? For now I will just ponder this for a bit - perhaps email our TA and get something back from her in writing that our booking will be ok. We had a very reasonable rate locked in. Is the potential fallout being denied boarding? Has anyone ever had that happen?

 

Unofficially, any hint as to when Princess will lift their ban.... hopefully followed by HAL? We are still 11 months out from sailing!

 

Thanks for the input.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

We are up on the visa requirements.

 

When booking I was clear to the agent who would be in which cabin. Our booking shows 3 Canadians in one and the other cabin has the SAfrican in it. At the bottom of the invoice it shows that this booking is travelling with the other booking. SO long story short, the Canadian is not in the same cabin as the SAfrican..... I am actually the person purchasing the cruise for the South African. My money, my billing address etc.

 

I am guessing you suggest we switch someone from the one cabin to the other? For now I will just ponder this for a bit - perhaps email our TA and get something back from her in writing that our booking will be ok. We had a very reasonable rate locked in. Is the potential fallout being denied boarding? Has anyone ever had that happen?

 

Unofficially, any hint as to when Princess will lift their ban.... hopefully followed by HAL? We are still 11 months out from sailing!

 

Thanks for the input.

 

There are no exact dates when and "IF" HAL will lift the restrictions but I can tell you that the problem will not come up till shortly after you make Final payment and the agency is to receive their commission. What you may want to do is call HAL and see if they would book this, if they tell you no then proceed from there. You paying for the cabin unfortunately makes no difference.

[Himself]

There are no exact dates when and "IF" HAL will lift the restrictions but I can tell you that the problem will not come up till shortly after you make Final payment and the agency is to receive their commission. What you may want to do is call HAL and see if they would book this, if they tell you no then proceed from there. You paying for the cabin unfortunately makes no difference.

 

Lisa, that is very good advice.

[cjcpopnan]

Well - I've decided after all this great advice and agreement (that some of us are being ripped off by this 'regional pricing policy') that I am going to book NCL. (Yes I understand the differences between cruise lines)

 

So looking forward to a casual cruise with good friends and BOTH of us paying the same prices.

Thanks all for your participation and good advice.

 

Cheers :D

[Philip217]

Can someone explain to me why when I book a flight from Beijing to Sydney, QANTAS charges me far more than they charge an Australian booking a flight from Sydney to Beijing?

 

Looks like racial discrimination to me.

 

I book China Southern instead.

It's a better airline and they do not discriminate against me.

[cjcpopnan]

Can someone explain to me why when I book a flight from Beijing to Sydney, QANTAS charges me far more than they charge an Australian booking a flight from Sydney to Beijing?

 

Looks like racial discrimination to me.

 

I book China Southern instead.

It's a better airline and they do not discriminate against me.

 

A better airline?? Better look at the current safety records Phillip.

[Globaliser]

Can someone explain to me why when I book a flight from Beijing to Sydney, QANTAS charges me far more than they charge an Australian booking a flight from Sydney to Beijing?

 

Looks like racial discrimination to me.

Looks like an oddity to me. You'd normally expect Qantas to charge more for a booking for a trip originating in Sydney, as this is a common home market phenomenon.

 

You're not comparing like with like in any event. A Beijing-Sydney-Beijing flight is assuredly not comparable to a Sydney-Beijing-Sydney flight, for all sorts of reasons.

 

OTOH, what the cruise lines do does allow you to make a direct comparison. Someone in Australia booking a VA cabin on a 7-night cruise departing on 30 February 2012 on the Wotsitdam is booking exactly the same thing as someone in the US booking a VA cabin on a 7-night cruise departing on 30 February 2012 on the Wotsitdam.

 

Part of the difference in pricing can be explained by the cruise line having to provide a higher level of consumer protection to the person booking in Australia.

 

But there are no good reasons why the cruise line could not also allow the Australian to book through a US agent, if the passenger chose to accept the currency risk, transaction costs, the different level of consumer protection etc. Certainly, there is no illegality involved in doing so, because other cruise lines (including other cruise lines owned by the same company) are happy to take such bookings. And lines like HAL will take bookings from UK residents - provided that they happen to hold US or Canadian citizenship. So it's clear that there are no regulations that prevent HAL from allowing this.

 

I've ventured the suggestion before that Princess (and possibly HAL) are acting illegally under UK law (unjustifiable differential treatment by reference to nationality) in their current policy. It would be great to see a change in policy. The vast majority of the UK market would continue to book in the UK at UK market prices for all sorts of conventional market behaviour reasons. And those who choose to book in the US would probably be repeaters, and be more sophisticated purchasers. It's encouraging to hear that Princess might be changing soon.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

 

Part of the difference in pricing can be explained by the cruise line having to provide a higher level of consumer protection to the person booking in Australia.

 

But there are no good reasons why the cruise line could not also allow the Australian to book through a US agent,

I have done some further checking and yes the part about the cost of the comsumer protection is a very big majority of it.

Basically this Rule went into effect about a year and a half ago but started to be strongly enforced starting in January 2011. What was happening was that so many from all parts of the world due to the ease of the internet were purchasing cruises on line in US Dollars from US agencies and by passing travel agents in the country they reside. In order to protect these agencies both Princess and Holland agreed they would not allow those living outside the US and Canada to purchase from a US or Canadian agency. The penalty to the US and Canadian agencies if they do sell to a resident outside the US was to strip them of commission on that booking.

Unknown if this will be lifted anytime soon :confused: Princess may be looking at testing to allow certain agencies that are not allowing internet booking that instead require that you talk with an agent to do this in cases similiar to g-didi but right now HAL is firm on their postion. Also right now the rule is as long as one person in the cabin is a US or Canadian resident then all is fine but I had an occasion this summer where we had to fight for half our commission being recalled, the way it was booked one person was a US citizen with a green card and passport from India the other was from India, they wanted to strip half the commission because of the one person from India. This was a large party of numerous cabins 1/3 of the passengers were visiting family in the US and were from India. It was being paid and billed by one person who was family but lived here in the US with a US passport. I had to make sure that each person from India was booked in a cabin with a US resident. HAL did not attempt to strip the commission till after the cruise ended.

[Grandma Gilly]

We too have booked cruises with UK travel agents, and found the prices to be higher than those quoted in the US. We can't go to the cruise company's US site, all prices on their websites available to us are quoted in pounds sterling. What we have done is gone to a US (or for our forthcoming cruise, a Canadian) travel agent, who told us we have to have a US address. We have friends in the States who were happy for us to give their address, and that is what we have done. As the checking in and documentation process is all done online and by e- mail it makes no difference where we live! That way we get the lower price, can (and have) been able to benefit from a price drop before final payment, would not have lost our deposit if we had cancelled or changed, to suit us, which we could not have done if we had booked from here.

Joy R

 

 

 

Thank you for this info. We too could use a relative's address in the US but the billing address on our credit card would be different. Does this matter?

[aquasat]

I'm currently looking at the fjord cruise on the eurodam departing on 10/8/2012.

The cheapest price i find is 2050€ for 2 adults and 2 children, and this is on the hal site.

It clearly states that it is an american site, and that american law is used and the law from the country of the customer.

 

So are there even cheaper prices in the us?

[Globaliser]

What was happening was that so many from all parts of the world due to the ease of the internet were purchasing cruises on line in US Dollars from US agencies and by passing travel agents in the country they reside. In order to protect these agencies both Princess and Holland agreed they would not allow those living outside the US and Canada to purchase from a US or Canadian agency.

"Protecting these agencies" would be more a credible reason for HAL's actions if HAL tried to ensure that passengers in these countries were not systemically disadvantaged, and moreover disadvantaged in a way which nets both the agencies and the cruise line more money.

[fleckle]

Can someone explain to me why when I book a flight from Beijing to Sydney, QANTAS charges me far more than they charge an Australian booking a flight from Sydney to Beijing?

Sorry, I know nothing about fares between Beijing and Sydney, in either direction.

But it is possible that there may be taxes/fees added to the fare in one direction that do not apply in the other direction.

 

For example, it costs us more to fly from Vancouver, Canada back to the USA than going the other way. That is because there are additional charges tacked on to our fare when flying into the USA that are not imposed on flights going out of the USA to Vancouver.

 

As for cruise prices, it would be equitable to charge everyone who books at the same time the same price for the same category cabin. But that is not the way they do it. Even people who live in the same country get charged different prices, with discounts being given to some but not to others.

[cjcpopnan]

I have done some further checking and yes the part about the cost of the comsumer protection is a very big majority of it.

Basically this Rule went into effect about a year and a half ago but started to be strongly enforced starting in January 2011. What was happening was that so many from all parts of the world due to the ease of the internet were purchasing cruises on line in US Dollars from US agencies and by passing travel agents in the country they reside. In order to protect these agencies both Princess and Holland agreed they would not allow those living outside the US and Canada to purchase from a US or Canadian agency. The penalty to the US and Canadian agencies if they do sell to a resident outside the US was to strip them of commission on that booking.

 

Thanks Lisa (your replies are great)

 

So I was 'almost' right in my first summation - we are paying commissions to Australian Travel agents - along with the obligatory fees/charges/taxes. I'm damn sure that any cancellations would be covered by personal travel Insurance and NOT the agencies....so to my mind - it's still a crock.

Recently I tried contacting an agency in Australia about a 50 odd night cruise on HAL (the one on their web site number) and you know what - they NEVER GOT BACK TO ME. So not only do we get restricted trading terms - we also get CRAP SERVICE. AND shop front retailers are wondering why more people are using the internet to shop. WAKE UP!!! and give us what we want.

 

(recent case in point - tried to purchase an item through 3 various shop front stores in Australia. NO RESPONSE. Sent an email to the guy listed on the site as the 'man to go to for everything' and presto - within 5 minutes an internet store in another state had the goods on a courier to me and I received them next day saving me a bundle in petrol and time to drive to the other side of Sydney where they didn't even care about making the sale)

[Cristiano]

I am not sure if I should write this but here goes anyway....

 

I have for the last 6 years travelled 3 times on HAL; a black sea cruise and 2 TA's booked though a fabulous US agency and on all occasions paid almost half of what I would have paid here in Sydney !

 

2 years ago I paid for my cousin in Italy to do the last 12 days of our TA and absolutely no problems.

 

This year on our TA I booked 2 SA cabins and no problems whatsoever.

 

HAL knows where I am from, they know who I book through and the money is directly paid to them with my credit card.

 

Never any issues with paying, boarding or with HAL.

 

HAL have been fantastic....ships, crew, officers, food, ports of call etc....all to us were great!

 

To be fair I am not sure if the so called "rule" of protecting agencies within their own countries is now being more strictly enforced.

 

Having said that, why is that in Australia's case the same cruise/cabin fare can be twice what it cost in the US ?

 

If the Australian agencies want my business (and I would be more than happy to do that) then be competitive !

 

What we need to know (and it would be near impossible) is what HAL charge the agencies in the US and Australia; what commission rate is charged by the respective agencies so apples could be compared with apples.......factoring in exchange rates.

 

On the same topic of disparity.....noting this was done earlier this year with exchange rate at 75c Aus to the Euro.....

 

Flights:

 

EMIRATES ITALY:

Venice ~~ Dubai ~~ Dubai ~~ Sydney ; Sydney ~~ Bangkok ~~ Bangkok ~~ Dubai ~~ Venice

Business Class for 2 people @ EUR 5,957.32 at ex rate of say 75 Euro cents = $7,943 AUS or $3,971 AUS each BUSINESS CLASS return!!

 

 

 

 

EMIRATES AUSTRALIA:

Sydney ~~ Dubai ~~ Dubai ~~ Venice : Venice ~~ Dubai ~~ Dubai ~~ Sydney

Business Class for 2 people @ AUS $16,221.08 or $8,105.54 AUS each BUISNESS CLASS return!!

The only issue here was that I could not book a flight from Sydney to Venice return on the Italian web site as it would redirect to the Aussie one!

 

The bottom line here is that this was not an agency but the Airline Emirates itself!!

 

So why should I have to pay an approx 50% premium for booking here in Australia!

 

I firmly believe that somewhere in all this must be a "rule" regarding free trade...or really is it just 'screw" the customer they will pay what we say!.

 

I knew I should not have started this!!!!!

 

Ciao,

 

Cristiano.

 

 

 

 

 

[jayteeaitch]

This whole question of overcharging Australians is becoming real PAIN and politicians should be taking note:eek::eek:

 

It doesn't only apply to Cruises and Air flights - but all through the spectrum of overseas purchases.:mad:

 

DW and I did a 2 week tour of Europe recently and the price quoted on the company website in the UK - was 2/3 rds the price in OZ.

 

When I tried to book the trip on the UK company site - I was told the booking had to be made in Australia thro' a TA. Eventually - I found out that 1/2 the people on the tour were Australians - and the Americans had only paid 1/2 our price.:mad:

 

Yesterday - I decided I wanted to buy a new model Panasonic camera.

The price on Amazon US - was $US467 - Amazon UK - $ US550 - lowest in Australia - $US750 - all converted at yesterdays rates.:(

 

Neither Amazon US - or UK - will accept an order from me yesterday for delivery in Australia

 

To add a little more - all our books - music - Kindle books all cost more than US prices - on the internet

 

Free Trade'?? - its just a joke to us poor Aussies - and it's definitely not taxes - we have just one tax - 10% which - by law - must be included in the price shown.

[granlea]

I just posted something similar in a different thread, but it would seem that at least some online US travel agencies have decided to protect themselves from being stripped of their commissions when those "not supposed to" book with them do.

 

Here is a quote, found in the travel agencies' terms and conditions, very first item listed, bold theirs:

 

 

IMPORTANT INFORMATION

Princess/Holland America guests

Pricing is based on at least one passenger per reservation being US/Canada/Mexico residents. Any reservation not pre-registering with at least one passenger from these countries is subject to immediate cancellation or fare increase of up to 20% of the total trip cost.

[Globaliser]

On the same topic of disparity.....noting this was done earlier this year with exchange rate at 75c Aus to the Euro.....

 

Flights:

 

EMIRATES ITALY:

 

Venice ~~ Dubai ~~ Dubai ~~ Sydney ; Sydney ~~ Bangkok ~~ Bangkok ~~ Dubai ~~ Venice

 

Business Class for 2 people @ EUR 5,957.32 at ex rate of say 75 Euro cents = $7,943 AUS or $3,971 AUS each BUSINESS CLASS return!!

 

EMIRATES AUSTRALIA:

 

Sydney ~~ Dubai ~~ Dubai ~~ Venice : Venice ~~ Dubai ~~ Dubai ~~ Sydney

 

Business Class for 2 people @ AUS $16,221.08 or $8,105.54 AUS each BUISNESS CLASS return!!

 

The only issue here was that I could not book a flight from Sydney to Venice return on the Italian web site as it would redirect to the Aussie one!

 

The bottom line here is that this was not an agency but the Airline Emirates itself!!

 

So why should I have to pay an approx 50% premium for booking here in Australia!

Here, you're not comparing like with like. A Sydney-Venice-Sydney air ticket is not the same product as a Venice-Sydney-Venice air ticket. In such a case, the markets in which the tickets are sold may be very different from each other. Air tickets are not priced by distance flown, but by market forces including supply and demand in the markets for which the tickets are intended (Australia and Italy respectively). Those forces may result in very different prices for trips which happen to have the same overall distance.

[RDC1]

I cannot comment on the Quantas case here, but I can comment that when traveling from LA to Aukland on Air New Zealand the fare charged to a US resident booking on the Air New Zealand web site was higher then for a New Zealand resident. We travel frequently between the two countries.

 

The residence restriction was reinforced when my wife, while visiting family in New Zealand, booked a ticket to go from Aukland to Queenstown. She used the New Zealand site which quoted in New Zealand Dollars. When she showed up to board the flight she was told that the site and fare only applied to New Zealand residents and that she should have used the site that quoted in US dollars which was higher.

 

Sorry, I know nothing about fares between Beijing and Sydney, in either direction.

But it is possible that there may be taxes/fees added to the fare in one direction that do not apply in the other direction.

 

For example, it costs us more to fly from Vancouver, Canada back to the USA than going the other way. That is because there are additional charges tacked on to our fare when flying into the USA that are not imposed on flights going out of the USA to Vancouver.

 

As for cruise prices, it would be equitable to charge everyone who books at the same time the same price for the same category cabin. But that is not the way they do it. Even people who live in the same country get charged different prices, with discounts being given to some but not to others.