Costa Concordia SINKING

[Cindy]

Here's a picture of the Splendor (sister ship) that shows the lifeboat design...you can see the open Promenade deck, and the lifeboat deck is just above it. That deck is only open to passengers during Muster Drill.

 

 

This was taken during a crew drill on the Conquest, not the Splendor, but you can see how the lifeboats would load, and then go straight out before being lowered to the water. I can see how a significant list would make lowering the lifeboats difficult.

 

[Gathina]

With reference to your final comment about the captain staying..I've always thought that if a ship did sink, in the end crew would do what human nature would dictate..and try to save yourself first before anyone else. Most people are not so noble to save everyone else first IMO

 

Interview on Sky News with the captain about 20 minutes ago. Rough transcription of the English translation provided by Sky:

 

"While we were moving there was a lateral rock projection. Even though we were moving along the coast with the tourist navigation system, I firmly believe that the rocks were not detected that the ship was not heading forward but sideways, as if, underwater, there was this rock projection. I don't know if it was detected or not, but on the nautical charts it was marked just as water at some 100-150 meters from the rocks, and we were about 300m from the shore more or less."

 

-----------

Edit:

By the way, the man looked in a complete state of shock and was rambling a bit - I think the "black box" and any voice recorders will give a better indication.

-----------

 

For people saying that the captain should have stayed, I'm not certain I agree. If there were a bunch of people who were in no immediate danger being airlifted off, would it have made sense for him to make his way to them and add to the helicopter burden, rather than just accept assurances from whoever was on the scene that it was being dealt with?

 

 

 

My sarcasm obviously wasn't showing through - that's what I was referring to about a big bag of cash marked "Swag". I felt it was a ridiculous original statement :)

[jcl410]

I thought he was a purser? unless it's the same title :confused:

 

The purser on a ship is responsible for monetary and paperwork matters (e.g. dealing with Immigration officials.)

 

They are typically considered a ship's officer.

 

Aloha,

 

John

[Thoie]

eh.... i don't agree with that, I'm not about to form a lynch-mob against or anything but i believe that the captain of the ship/plane is ultimately responsible for his/her passengers, there for he/she should make sure everybody got off the ship/plane safely before they themselves evacuate. However, i know if it was me, i'd panic and run around in circle screaming 'we're all gonna die!' or curl up in fetal position and cry, and that's why i'm not a captain of anything (though i'm a fierce dictator at home :D)

 

I'm just thinking of the physical size of a cruise ship. Yes, in theory the captain could go room to room checking for everyone, but in practicality he has to delegate.

 

If it were me (and it's not :) ), I'd be more inclined to stay in one place, and check in with officers/crew in each "area" to ensure their area was cleared. Out of 4,000 people when it gets down to "There's xx people on the helipad (or wherever), and the helicopter is here lifting them right now", I'd be inclined to let them at it, unless I have magical helicopter guidance powers.

 

Sometimes being a manager involves leaving your experts (in this case the helicopter crew) do their job without hindrance. By the time he'd have made his way to the lifting spot, everyone could be gone anyway, and then he'd just be forcing the helicopter to come back again. Once he was reassured that the last passengers are being dealt with and are safe, what additional "good" can he do by remaining?

 

End of the day, everyone has a different style/expectations. I'd be disgusted if he was first off, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[SandDragon]

So does anyone know when the captain left the ship? Is it still the case that the fact of him leaving the ship is only evidenced by him being arrested for, among other things, abandoning his ship?

[guernseyguy]

Interview on Sky News with the captain about 20 minutes ago.... we were about 300m from the shore more or less."

 

more or less?

 

Well, the 'fast sail by Giglio' appears confirmed and the 'experts say power failure led to loss of steering' debunked.

 

And it would appear to have been 'less', rather than 'more'......

[missfrankiecat]

-----------

 

For people saying that the captain should have stayed, I'm not certain I agree. If there were a bunch of people who were in no immediate danger being airlifted off, would it have made sense for him to make his way to them and add to the helicopter burden, rather than just accept assurances from whoever was on the scene that it was being dealt with?

 

 

quote]

 

I agree completely. Give the Captain some credit for doing the right thing. It would have served no purpose to remain on board that had been effectively exacuated and was likely to capsize at any moment.

 

It's called doing the job you are paid and trained to do, in the difficult as well as rewarding times. I am shocked that people actually think it acceptable for a Naval Officer to abandon his crew and passengers, whatever the risk to himself. The burden of carrying ultimate responsibility and, let's be frank, the expectation of personal heroism, is why the Captain of a craft is highly trained, paid and accorded respect by those he/she commands. If it is true (as stated by the public prosecutor) that this Captain left the ship before midnight, we also know from numerous survivor accounts that there were dozens of pax and crew who were not rescued until 3 - 4am, so I would suggest one purpose to be served would be to maintain morale amongst very frightened people rather than rushing to give tv interviews.

[Iluvcruising2]

 

Sobering video.

[Aplmac]

Really? With a 14 hour transit and 195 nautical miles to cover she'd only need

to average 14 knots - so going at ±15 to allow for manoeuvring either end

does not strike me as 'far slower than she would normally'.

I agree.

 

Many folks think that, because a ship is capable of 21 kts. top speed

that they go whizzing around the oceans at/near that speed.

 

Far from it.

The bean-counters at Carnival are counting fuel costs

and the bridge team is well aware of that constraint!

 

Cruisers don't realize how much of their cruise is being done eeaassyy on da gas, to save fuel. ;)

 

If she was doing 15 kts. (about 17-19 mph? she was going at a fair clip! ..making time.

[Thoie]

More accurate transcript of the captain's interview from Sky News I posted earlier (they just replayed the snippet so caught things I missed the first time):

 

What happened is that while we were moving with the tourist navigation system, as you can see by the hole in the ship, there was a lateral rock projection. Even though we were sailing along the coast with the tourist navigation system, I firmly believe that the rocks were not detected, as the ship was not heading forward but sideways, as if, underwater, there was this rock projection. I don't know if it was detected or not, but on the nautical charts it was marked just as water at some 100-150 meters from the rocks, and we were about 300m from the shore more or less. We shouldn't have had this contact.

[Iluvcruising2]

So does anyone know when the captain left the ship? Is it still the case that the fact of him leaving the ship is only evidenced by him being arrested for, among other things, abandoning his ship?

 

The Italian prosecutors have alleged that the Captain left the ship very early, though the Captain insists that he was among the last to leave.

[christi1805]

Discussion on German prime TV station ARD revealed by their reporter on scene:

it is quite common for Costa ships to substantially deviate from normal course and sail very very close and parallel to the Giglio Island harbor town in order to pay homage to the families of some crew and a Costa commodore living on Giglio Island. The deviation about 4 miles from normal course start when they steer the ships left, directly towards Giglio and at a close range steer to the right and sail parallel to the harbor town. This video http://video.corriere.it/nave-concordia-al-giglio-/9dfa5ea6-3e9b-11e1-8b52-5f77182bc574

shows another Costa ship doing this "panorama-reverence/salutatory tour". It is said by a German eyewitness from onboard that first they realized a hard right maneuver and then heard the bang.

After they ripped off their left side during the last resort right-turn the ship either got a spin and ended up 180 degrees opposite the suggested course , or as also discussed completed a so called "Greek anchor maneuver" which is obviously a method to stop the ship fast by dropping the anchor and swinging 180 degrees.

So this theory suggests that the ship just hit the most outward of the 2 rocks. This does not exclude that the ship could also tried navigating in between the 2 rocks. Anyway the video shows such a criminal maneuver happened before.....

[Red Mini Stapler]

If it were me (and it's not :) ), I'd be more inclined to stay in one place, and check in with officers/crew in each "area" to ensure their area was cleared. Out of 4,000 people when it gets down to "There's xx people on the helipad (or wherever), and the helicopter is here lifting them right now", I'd be inclined to let them at it, unless I have magical helicopter guidance powers.

 

Sometimes being a manager involves leaving your experts (in this case the helicopter crew) do their job without hindrance. By the time he'd have made his way to the lifting spot, everyone could be gone anyway, and then he'd just be forcing the helicopter to come back again. Once he was reassured that the last passengers are being dealt with and are safe, what additional "good" can he do by remaining?

 

End of the day, everyone has a different style/expectations. I'd be disgusted if he was first off, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

when i wrote 'make sure everybody got off the ship', i didn't mean it by captain himself heroically kungfu kicking each cabin door and checking everyone's out (although that's what i'm thinking about now), but like you said have the assigned crew members checking in each corridors and rooms, while controlling the situation at the bridge, at least that's how they did it while the docked hotel ship i worked caught on fire (queen of scandinavia in 09), the captain remained in the bridge while crew members were checking the cabins, which one of the crew had issue with smoke inhalation and had to be checked into the hospital.

 

I know this is entirely different situation, but i still think captain should've stayed at the "chopper lifting area" and made sure at least the last visible passenger gets safely out of the ship and evacuate with them or whatever.

[Thoie]

when i wrote 'make sure everybody got off the ship', i didn't mean it by captain himself heroically kungfu kicking each cabin door and checking everyone's out (although that's what i'm thinking about now),

 

I think that should be a scene in the made-for-TV movie too!

 

I know this is entirely different situation, but i still think captain should've stayed at the "chopper lifting area" and made sure at least the last visible passenger gets safely out of the ship and evacuate with them or whatever.

 

The problem with that is presumably the reason they were being chopper lifted is that they couldn't get to lifeboats (just an assumption, may not be the case). If the captain could get to a lifeboat, that would indicate he couldn't get to the chopper spot (otherwise the pax there would be able to get to a lifeboat). He could have stayed shouting encouraging slogans over the intercoms, but the noise of the helicopter might have drowned it out.

 

Equally, he may have leapt into his gold plated escape shuttle at the first sign of trouble, clutching bags of cash to his chest while yelling "You'll never catch me now", but at this stage it's all just supposition.

[Aplmac]

Discussion on German prime TV station ARD revealed by their reporter on scene:

it is quite common for Costa ships to substantially deviate from normal course

and sail very very close and parallel to the Giglio Island harbor town

in order to pay homage to the families of some crew and a Costa commodore living on Giglio Island.

 

The deviation about 4 miles from normal course start when they steer the ships left, directly towards Giglio

and at a close range steer to the right and sail parallel to the harbor town.

This video http://video.corriere.it/nave-concordia-al-giglio-/9dfa5ea6-3e9b-11e1-8b52-5f77182bc574

shows another Costa ship doing this "panorama-reverence/salutatory tour".

 

So this theory suggests that the ship just hit the most outward of the 2 rocks.

This does not exclude that the ship could also tried navigating in between the 2 rocks.

In between the two rocks? :eek:

 

 

You might want to take a look at this website

http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/74284/Costa-Concordia-accident-navigational-error/

no verification if this is true or not.

 

 

* I badly want to believe that the ship's course shown on this website

is someone devising a conspiracy theory, but nothing would surprise me.

Truth is often stranger than fiction. ;)

.

[boscobeans]

While ship owner Costa has insisted it was following the same route it takes every week between the Italian ports of Civitavecchia and Savona, residents on the island of Giglio said they had never seen the Costa come so close to the "Le Scole" reefs and rocks that jut out off Giglio's eastern side.

 

"This was too close, too close," said Italo Arienti, a 54-year-old sailor who has worked on the Maregigilo ferry service that runs between the island and the mainland for more than a decade. A now-retired Costa commander used to occasionally do "fly-bys" on the route, nearing a bit and sounding the siren in a special salute for his hometown, he said.

 

Such a fly-by was staged last August, but there was no incident, he said.

 

He said the cruise ship always stayed more than five to six nautical miles offshore, well beyond the reach of the "Le Scole" reefs, which are popular with scuba divers.

[Flying is for Planes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZQKpFHbZ04&feature=g-all-c&context=G204f399FAAAAAAAAAA

 

Seems to have been lost with this accident's news. MSC Poesia ran aground on the reef some two miles off Grand Bahama around 6:00 a.m. last Saturday morning.

 

According to boat captains that were in the Port Lucaya area Saturday, the ship docked in some 14 feet of water during low tide.This was heavily criticized as several persons noted that the vessel should not have been d in less than 30 feet of water.

 

So why all of a sudden are cruise ships running aground in shallow water?

 

 

http://cruiseradio.net/cruise-ship-runs-aground-off-bahamas/

[Topsham]

So does anyone know when the captain left the ship? Is it still the case that the fact of him leaving the ship is only evidenced by him being arrested for, among other things, abandoning his ship?

 

 

The term 'abandoning his ship' is more of a legal term and probably should not be taken too literally.

 

When a ship is abandoned by her master and crew it means that she becomes the property of the underwriters and ceases to be the property of the owners.

[ChrisYMQ]

I posted earlier but I'll post again...

 

My brother-in-law is the Senior Salvage Master for Titan Salvage (under contract with Carnival Corp.). He and his crew flew to Italy early this morning, rented a tugboat and boarded the ship shortly after.

 

Anyway, just talked to my brother-in-law and he just got off the ship after being on it for a while and says, "The pictures make it look a lot worse than it really is. The entire ship will have to be re-upholstered and such. I'll probably get all the stuff out [stuff being beds, chairs, fuel, etc.], patch `er up, pump the water out, and tow her to where ever Carnival wants me to, and then get paid." He also said that it will probably cost Carnival $150 million+ and take him a few months.

 

He said he can't really say any more (in terms of how it happened and what he's seeing because it's being investigated) and the above way he will be handling things is preliminary (of course). But he says if the same thing were to happen to him (he has his unlimited masters license) he would have "high tailed 'er outta there." Now he is probably extremely busy, and called my wife to let her know he was safe, so I probably won't talk to him for a few days. But I'll keep y'all updated.

 

Well thanks for the update. Question is though whether Titan Salvage will still have the contract after you posted all this in here.:eek: Carnival won't like family members of the salvage folks to post any details on cruise critic, that's for sure. Suggest to delete your post... and not post any further updates from him....

[ChrisYMQ]

sounds like Carnival corp will then transfer Carnival Splendor (identical to Concordia) over to Costa to fill the gap. Revenues in the Med are much higher than LA to Cabo... Carnival Spirit could then remain at LA replacing Splendor while delaying the launch of Carnival's Australia program for a year or two...

[NormanW]

It's just all assumption at this point and who knows when VDR translation (the explanation of voyage data recorder...the so named "black box") takes place for public digestion.

 

Capt BJ's theorized chronology makes sense based on what's available. However what PAX have said (boom) and loss of power is important. When the loud noise was heard/felt did the power go out immediately or was there a delay? Perhaps the power went out before the noise occurred? The timing of those events is critical to determine if a mechanical mishap occurred causing change of course and then contact with submerged rocks. Oh and that rock in the pictures is a boulder! That's huge! :eek:

 

In any case it's a tragedy and I'd have to say with the number of persons aboard vs. casualties they were very fortunate for the number of deceased to be as low as it was.

 

Hopefully good news comes for the unaccounted.

 

Well thanks for the update. Question is though whether Titan Salvage will still have the contract after you posted all this in here. Carnival won't like family members of the salvage folks to post any details on cruise critic, that's for sure. Suggest to delete your post... and not post any further updates from him....

 

Even if he would delete that it's still quoted. ;)

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[guernseyguy]

The Prosecutor now says the ship was 150 metres from the shore - and that unaccounted for now number 17.....or looked at another way, tragic though 17 deaths (if confirmed) would be...99.6% got off....

[MorganMars]

Morgan:

 

The marine traffic website tracking the Costa Concordia shows the vessel moving northwest however it does not track through the small islands approximately a half mile from Giglio port.

 

The Turkey SeaNews website may be wrong on the AIS positions. I do not believe the Costa Concordia would have gone in between those two rock islands as they are less than 200 feet apart.

 

Time (UTC) Vessel's Name Position Type Port Area Latitude / Longitude Speed Course

2012-01-13 21:02 COSTA CONCORDIA Midnight position Mediterranean 42.3717 10.92602 1.1 13

2012-01-13 20:21 COSTA CONCORDIA In Range Mediterranean 42.32781 11.06087 15.7 278

2012-01-12 23:48 COSTA CONCORDIA Midnight position Mediterranean 40.86274 12.21922 16.9 339

2012-01-12 23:48 COSTA CONCORDIA In Range Mediterranean 40.86274 12.21922 16.9 339

2012-01-12 13:58 COSTA CONCORDIA Midday position Mediterranean 38.26645 13.40233 16.9 339

 

 

MMSI: 247158500

 

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/datasheet.aspx?datasource=ITINERARIES&MMSI=247158500

 

I, too, question the course through the rocks that is shown on that site, but was willing to admit to a lack of local knowledge. While it did not seem to be a viable course considering all the open water to the east, the Turkish site provided images of the actual nautical charts. Wish I had a set of charts for the area.

 

Thanks, for your input.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

[rubrrick]

You are correct and I accept it. You and I could postulate to our heart's content on a professional, closed to public forum. I did mention until the news media catches up to what has been stated over at MM&P, I was going to lay low on this forum, so we think alike.

 

As a supposed "professional", a quick question. Why would you taunt anyone on an amateur board such as this one? You have not given us one shread of evidence, or your thoughts, so, why even post here??

 

We not only look at the human side of this story, there are some here that are quite knowledgeble, that are willing to share their opinion, while you give gobeldegook!:rolleyes:

 

If you cannot share with open minded people of Cruise Critic, please keep your posting to Maritime Masters & Pilots, or whatever MM&P stands for.

 

Thanks

[Thoie]

According to BreakingNews.ie the 17 missing are 11 passengers and 6 crew.

 

Read more:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/cruise-ship-captain-did-not-expect-rocks-in-area-of-grounding-536012.html#ixzz1jXZ6Wvj9

 

Hopefully they're all safe somewhere, and just not crossed off a list.