Costa Concordia SINKING

[ObscureAllure]

You are also not much of a cruiser. 3 cruise does not give you much cruise experince. I also notice that you only had 3 post before this board. I think you need more cruise experience before you act like you know a lot about cruising.

 

 

I do not know everything about cruising and have never, will never claim to. I made it quite clear that I don't, in fact, and even said my lack of knowledge would make me inept in this situation. My lurking on tis board for a few years before joining also does not affect my knowledge of cruising. Although, regardless of this fact, I fail to see what any of that has to do with the important thing everyone seems to keep pushing aside to bicker over petty things about: The Costa Concordia and the people who were affected by it.

[reallyitsmema]

This is the bit that got everyone's knickers in a twist:

 

 

I was disgusted when I read it. The implication was that any vessel without a US flag is some kind of 3rd world leaky bucket where no-one gives a damn about safety and the crew are incapable of managing a crisis. I found it highly insulting to any line or crew registered outside the US.

 

He backtracked later to clarify that was not what was meant, but it's certainly how I read it initially, and I obviously wasn't alone given the reactions from others.

Exactly. Plus posting his license in every other post and discussing how his union makes sure he has a pastry chef shows total disrespect to this situation. Just because a textbook says something, it doesn't always work that way in real life which any master who has actually had a command can attest to.

 

This thread should be about the accident, not a disgruntled deck officer.

[monicajay]

On another note:

 

My heart goes out to all the hard working staff of the Concordia who not only lost all their personal belongings but who find themselves suddenly unemployed. We know many of these hard working people are supporting large families in their home countries.

 

Hoping that Costa treats them fairly and is assisting them in every way possible.

[ObscureAllure]

In my opinion, and it is just opinion, it is highly possible that the ratio of experienced crew to new crew, to crew that has only been on board for a month or so is getting stretched to the point where an emergency of this magnitude produced problems.

 

One report I heard on German TV, was that a large portion of the staff could not speak Italian, German or French (just their own language and English) and that also hindered some of the communication. That is media speculation and the speculation of one of the interviewed Germans. I was not there.

 

 

I think you are probably right on both accounts. That is always an issue when having such a large group of people who speak so many different languages. It's near impossible to have interpreters who speak every language, or even half of them. I can see it being this way with the crew and that causing an issue... although so many people speak English now, I would hope that they would at least be able to both revert to that, but of course even that isn't always possible.

[run4rain]

Sounds to ME like Costa went out of its way to put 4,000 innocent people in harm's way, has (so far) taken minimal care of them, and has a 100,000-ton PR problem on its hands.

 

The poster is not responsible for the deaths, Costa is. Costa is also responsible for satisfying the poster. If Costa has a lot of issues on its plate right now it is solely Costa's responsibility, not any of its customers.

 

I know that each cruise line has customer service issues, but I've seen too many instances where this company does the absolute bare minimum (if anything at all) to help out its customers in awful situtations. This statement does NOT reflect on the crew by the way, I'm talking about their corporate office.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

Great post. Sad, infuriating and unforgivable if true. If Schettino truly abandoned ship and was asked to go back by the Italian Coast Guard and he refused, then throw the book at him.

 

That leaves me speechless. We were discussing what reasons might have seen the captain leave the ship before everyone else: perhaps to coordinate something on shore and then go back to the ship, etc. We didn't believe our own hypothesis, but were trying to play devil's advocate. To read that he was told to go back by Coast Guard and he refused? Well, he is finished.

[ObscureAllure]

On another note:

 

My heart goes out to all the hard working staff of the Concordia who not only lost all their personal belongings but who find themselves suddenly unemployed. We know many of these hard working people are supporting large families in their home countries.

 

Hoping that Costa treats them fairly and is assisting them in every way possible.

That is another thing to think about. Many might choose not to return to a cruise ship for obvious reasons, but even those that do... I can't imagine they'll have a new ship for them to be on next week. So many people were affected in so many ways. :( Hopefully Costa can find room for them on another vessel or even Carnival could help out with that.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

Costa has just thrown the captain under the bus...or the boat...as it were.

 

If the captain didn't want to save the boat or the passengers, Costa will now try and save itself.

[reallyitsmema]

On another note:

 

My heart goes out to all the hard working staff of the Concordia who not only lost all their personal belongings but who find themselves suddenly unemployed. We know many of these hard working people are supporting large families in their home countries.

 

Hoping that Costa treats them fairly and is assisting them in every way possible.

I hope none lost a stash of tips that they were going to take and wire the funds home at the next port. I know Carnival put crew up in hotels after the Splendor fire and honored contracts. Hopefully, Costa will do the same thing with its crew.

[cubella59]

Hi Obscure, I've been on Facebook this morning and have connected with everyone now but two remaining friends. Thankfully, all have made it out alive and uscathed.

 

Thank you for setting up that thread. I will post the names of the two remaining friends there as soon as I'm done catching up on this one.

 

 

Also glad to hear!

 

 

I wonder if Cubella59 ever got in touch with their friend?

[Isklaar]

This is the bit that got everyone's knickers in a twist:

 

 

I was disgusted when I read it. The implication was that any vessel without a US flag is some kind of 3rd world leaky bucket where no-one gives a damn about safety and the crew are incapable of managing a crisis. I found it highly insulting to any line or crew registered outside the US.

 

He backtracked later to clarify that was not what was meant, but it's certainly how I read it initially, and I obviously wasn't alone given the reactions from others.

 

Yes, Thoie, my feelings exactly and that is why I have no intention of giving an apology. I'm rather surprised that it's even been suggested.

 

That said, I did miss the backtrack post, so if I can be bothered later I may search for it, in the meantime I have to sort out my scarf drawer ;)

[AUDirt]

I'm not one for telling people how to do their jobs, but where are the forum moderators?

 

We seem poised to witness a food fight in what has been an otherwise informative and interesting thread discussing a real tragedy.

[BalconyBumz]

I know that each cruise line has customer service issues, but I've seen too many instances where this company does the absolute bare minimum (if anything at all) to help out its customers in awful situtations. This statement does NOT reflect on the crew by the way, I'm talking about their corporate office.

I so agree. I actually feel sorry for the crew, it's not their fault and to me, it's up to the Captain of the ship to give out the orders and do the best they can under the circumstances, not high tail his you know what outta there! Then, it should be up to corporate to put people and their customers first and help them in any way possible. Evidently, but not showing that effort, that will hurt them even more in the long run versus the accident.

[EVALUATOR]

I would blame the Italian EMS system. The crew of the ship were victims just like the passengers and would be disorientated themselves once reaching shore. This is where the local government has to be able to activate an EOC (Emergency Operations Center) and take over for accounting for people. Once the representatives from Costa get there the EOC should be able to provide them with rosters. (And in fact the EOC should have been on the phone with Costa first thing asking for a manifest.)

 

I don't think the Italian EMS system is to blame. On a normal embarkation day, it usually takes 30 check in agents 5 hours to get everyone checked in. That's through a nice computerized terminal.

 

This was an island of about 1100 residents that had a cruise ship basically crash land on their doorstep at midnight. Life boats were arriving at shore, at night. People were jumping off the ship and swimming ashore.

 

Not like getting out of a taxi, handing your bags to the porter, and walking inside with your cruise documents in hand.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

There's talk that this won't hurt the industry much. I tend to disagree. If any of the major media outlets actually go through and do stories on the safety in the industry and the fact that most of the crews make next to nothing.....this isn't airliners with highly paid stewardesses and flight crews. This is people making a few thousand a year working unbearable hours.

 

JMHO, the aftermath if this is proven to be gross negligence will be bad for the industry.

 

We agree with you 100%!

 

Things have been sneaking up on the cruise industry for a while now. More and more reports about people going missing at see, articles about the crazy antics on some ships and the inability of the ship's security to deal with it. Reports about environmental abuses have been filling the German airwaves for the past weeks with another Carnival subsidiary, Aida, being accused of spewing more than 5 million cars doing the same route http://www.nabu.de/aktionenundprojekte/dinodesjahres/

 

Those of us who cruise a lot are aware of the working conditions on board, and while I do not blame any of them for this crisis, an honest and thorough investigation may reveal shocking things with many lines. Those findings can affect all lines.

[ObscureAllure]

Hi Obscure, I've been on Facebook this morning and have connected with everyone now but two remaining friends. Thankfully, all have made it out alive and uscathed.

 

Thank you for setting up that thread. I will post the names of the two remaining friends there as soon as I'm done catching up on this one.

 

 

I'm so glad to hear you got in touch with some of them, hopefully you get in touch with the rest!

 

I think that thread is a bust as someone pointed out, most people are using other methds of contact (like facebook).

 

Good luck hon!

[mferris77]

Well, I decided to put on my Internet Investigator Hat to look into the whole "where did she hit" question.

 

The idea that the boat went between those two large rocks just south of the port seemed a bit silly to me. I couldn't imagine anyone even considering doing that.

 

So I found the GPS path someone has already posted to CC. Consider the following path:

 

 

...so we see that the ship comes in towards the island to do its little fly-by, then turns to the right to run nearly parallel to the shore. At no time does it ever come close to those two rocks. There is, however, a gap in the data points - GPS data seems to be missing from the point where they actually turned and where the last few points were where it came to rest.

 

I also found this video which maps out the timestamps and which has better detail of the coastline.

 

So it seems that the ship continued past the port and got a little too close to the island, sharply veered off to the right, then turned around to come back to the coastline and fell over where she now lays. The point where she veered off is very close to where she now lays, as well.

 

So I looked at this area closely in Google Maps, and you can make out something under the water very close to where the sudden turn occured. To me it looks like some rocks very close to the surface. So perhaps this is a case of them not turning soon enough - they begin to turn away from the island but are closing in on that submerged rock. The ship continues turning, but given the way ships turn (not like a car but more like a sideways slide), the side of the ship collides with this submerged rock. They continue out a ways, but as things start looking bad they turn around and end up where the ship now lays.

 

Just a theory but it kind of makes sense to me. Moreso than the 'threading the needle' theory with those two other large rocks. What do you think?

[Loonbeam]

I was speaking to someone here who was a former cargo ship Captain, and here's how he translated/interpreted the Italian Law (he speaks and reads fluent italian)..

 

The Captain, or if incapacitated the senior deck officer, is to remain on board until it is reasonably certain that all souls aboard have been evacuated or otherwise accounted for, unless ordered to leave by rescue personnel.

 

IF he left while the evacuation was still ongoing (which speaks to the first part) and IF the Coast Guard ordered him back and he refused (which speaks to the second), he can and should be charged as he was. There's not enough information other than hearsay to say what the true situation is but if a Coast Guard Cmdr. is making public statements, I am inclined to think there is legal jeopardy here.

 

Where this gets interesting is Costa's liability for the Captain's actions (legally only, not a public relations standpoint)

. Do we have anyone with experience in Italian civil and criminal liability laws? I can take a good shot from US side, but I don't know how similar they are.

 

 

 

That leaves me speechless. We were discussing what reasons might have seen the captain leave the ship before everyone else: perhaps to coordinate something on shore and then go back to the ship, etc. We didn't believe our own hypothesis, but were trying to play devil's advocate. To read that he was told to go back by Coast Guard and he refused? Well, he is finished.

[BalconyBumz]

Yes trouble and crime and deaths and more stuff happen at sea, but they don't happen in your own city? That just makes no sense to me for people saying cruises are getting scary, etc.

[Enigm@]

so there are still no news whether the ship will be salvaged or not?

 

You know, I just don't get this.

I've dipped in & out of this thread, not read all of it by any means, but each time I check on the last few pages there always seems to be this question. Why?

 

My own personal feeling, nothing more, is that it should be scrapped. I've sailed on Concordia before, but I for one would never feel comfortable again on this particular ship for so many reasons. Why they would wish to patch it up & send it back out on it's travels is beyond me. I think they should just cut their losses.

 

This is all probably academic anyway. It seems it will need to be "chopped up" as it's too big to be moved in one piece.

 

Can you perhaps explain to me though why this issue is so important to you? As I have said, I just don't understand.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

The Titanic sunk in addition to several other things happening on cruise ships or with cruise ships over the years, but is it really any different with anything else? Flying? People still fly. Car wrecks? People still drive and ride in cars. Horses? People still get back up and ride again. Accidents/tragedies happen in every walk and activity of life. This isn't going to take the cruise industry down by any means. It's not like this stuff happens every day.

 

I am not sure why people keep comparing this to the Titanic other than it was also a liner that had a gash in the side and sunk. That is where the similarities end... other than our public fascination with it.

 

Here is why it is different, in my humble opinion. The Titanic sank 100 years ago. People do not make vacation decisions based on what happened 100 years ago, they make emotional decisions today based on what is in their foremost consciousness. Out of 10 people who are thinking of booking a vacation right this second, you can be sure that at least one of them (within a 2 person decision making team) is going to say..."No, honey, I am NOT going on a ship right now. Did you SEE the Costa ship on TV?" That is a loss of 10% for the cruise industry in general. From the other 9, there will be at least one that will say... "A cruise is ok, but NOT Costa - people on that ship said the emergency response was bad. People died." A loss for Costa. This is not a scientific poll of course, but after watching people make vacation purchasing decisions for almost 20 years, it is my gut reaction.

 

I always tell my partner... "Just because you are exceptional, does not mean the general public is".

[moniquet]

Oh Gawd, Absolutely overwhelmed with this topic, all the theories, all the experts...scottie beam me up:D

[Loonbeam]

On other note from the same Captain who as you can guess has been keeping a close eye on this..

 

"Unless the ship is on fire or is facing complete immersion, you are generally better off NOT jumping into the water - if the ship was a further out from land many more people would have died. Instead, try to find a stable area out of the water and await rescue."

[Mark+Anne]

Actually, the lack of a muster drill reflects a corporate culture of lack of training/caring/ safety. I was on the Serena last month, going from Rome to Savona, and we had no muster drill either. I've not been on any other ship that failed to have a prompt and thorough muster drill.

 

But enough about the muster, for those of you who have experienced Costa, the lack of staff training throughout the line is quite evident, from the reservation office, to on-ship demeanor.

 

Despite these failures, I'm sure there was plenty of heroism by staff and passengers, as so many thousands made it out alive. A job well done by those who performed well under the toughest conditions.

 

I hope that the rest of cruise industry learns from this disaster.

 

We just got off a 10 night Caribbean cruise on Costa Atlantica and did not only have one but two muster drills during the cruise. The first one took place the day after we left Miami - we did not leave until midnight because they were still waiting for some late passengers flying in from Europe. The second muster drill took place 6 days into the cruise. We have done quite a few 10 to 14 night cruises and had never heard of two muster drills during a 10 plus night cruise, but we were assured by several people on board that this is what Costa usually does during cruises longer than 7 nights - however, maybe not in the Mediterranean??

 

Anne

[AAAAmerican]

 

People say many words yet.... things do happen otherwise .

 

SHIP HAPPENS ::::

 

 

Did you know more words are in English than French ?

 

 

Did you know the TITANIC never had a GOD-Mother?

It was also never Christened!

 

 

 

Who was the God-Mother of this wrecked, twisted ,ripped, and sunken COSTA Ship?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Director General of Costa Crociera Gianni Onorato speaking to journalists at the port of Porto Santo Stefano.

 

Onorato said the liner was on its regular, weekly route when it struck a reef.

 

"The ship was doing what it does 52 times a year, going along the route between Civitavecchia and Savona,"