Costa Concordia SINKING

[SomeBeach]

How many more Captains in the world are under the same assumption that they can shirk clear duties.

 

The cruise industry better review clearly with each Captain and top officers that they swear true allegiance to their required duties, or if they cannot truly perform, then, resign their position.

 

 

I feel as consumers of cruise vacations, we must REQUIRE that cruiselines hire the best competent leaders to Master their ships. There should be some type of database out there (similar to what they have for doctors) for the cruiser to review a Master's past experience, accomplishments, near misses, performance, etc. We should be able to sail with ONLY the best Masters regardless of what country they come from or on what part of the world they are sailing. These ships are not toys and passengers should not be expendable.

 

I understand what you are saying but the problem is no one can know for certain how they would react under these exact type of circumstances until they are actually in that exact type of situation. How many times have you done something and then in hindsight realized you could have done it better.

I'd bet if this Captain could go back in time, with what he knows now, he wouldn't have cruised so close to the island. Of course we can't go back, some things in life just do not allow a "do-over." We can only hope that lessons are learned so that things like this are not repeated.

[Milaandra]

....just read that two of the casualities were a father and his 5 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. How tragic!

 

Casualties or still on the missing list?

[cruiserfanfromct]

Originally Posted by JJSMaine

Very much looking at what he might be going through.. I have been in similar horrific incidents.... think of a bad car accident with roll over... I was at fault.. I was a teenager and did something stupid... the fear that courses through your body... the feeling that it is just like a falling/crashing dream, only you don't wake up.. it is real and no dream ... and the denial approaches.. thoughts of a way to explain it away... fear of repercussion from totaling the parents car, of hurting friends in the car... of the police etc etc... Magnify these feelings 4200 times and I could easily see the Captain crumbling under the weight of the realization of his own stupidity and incompetence.

I don't mean to be close minded but I fail to see the similarities with a teenager crashing daddy's Porsche and a 52-year-old (seasoned?) captain responsible for a half a billion dollar vessel and over 4,000 passengers and crew members. Would we have overlooked Captain 'Sully' Sullenberger actions if he would have ditched his plane and swam across the Hudson to safety leaving his crew and passengers stranded to fend for themselves? I think not!

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

@milkalsen..thanks for posting the transcript.

 

I also read it on the yahoo news feed. Thank god the coast guard was recording the conversation with the captain!

 

What bothered me the most was when the captain said he had his first officer with him. Okay, I understand the stress but that's an individual decision/experience but the first officer too?? So the passengers & crew were left to fend for themselves with no senior leadership??? Damn.

 

He made the decision, that very fateful one and now he will have to live with it for the rest of his life. Very sad indeed.

 

That is very shocking. The Captain is somehow incapacitated (in the broad sense of being unable to function in his role as leader)......and his first officer left the ship with him. ???

 

I think the thing that bothered me most was hearing the Captain try to get out from under his order to return to the ship via a boat by explaining that it was DARK over there where his waitstaff was putting people into lifeboats and his entertainers were climbing down rope ladders and his passengers and crew were swimming in the cold black sea to shore

 

I still have a little room in my heart to pity someone who is so destroyed that he is THAT delusional.

[mcrcruiser]

It will take a long time before all the facts are known about this tragic incident .Where lives are lost that shouldn't have been lost is beyond comprehension

[mferris77]

How horrible! Unless the remaining missing are somehow trapped in areas above the waterline, then there's no hope of finding them alive. If not for drowning, hypothermia would have claimed them a few hours or so after being in very cold water. I hope that the remaining lost are in a dry area. It's a possibility that with all of the devastation to the vessel that it is very difficult to search every nook and cranny on that ship, especially as it lies on its side.

 

Unfortunately, I believe it has been reported that all dry areas of the ship have already been searched. So if anyone's left on board, they're under the water line. Doesn't look good for finding anyone else alive at this point.

[4kids3dogs2cats&fish]

I agree he didn't want to block the harbor.

 

The stupidity of the fly by pass still is incredible to me. Even a 10 knot easterly wind could have been enough to push him that extra 30-50 meters that put him on the rocks.

 

Bad for the industry when people realize they're putting their lives in the hands of people making peanuts.

 

Reports (a few pages ago on this thread) are that the exact same "fly-by pass" was done back in August by a different Captain. Schettino must have thought he could do it too.

 

I guess this might put to an end other "scenic maneuvers", such as the 360 degree spin that RCL ships take when passing the Pitons of St. Lucia. Darn shame if it gets eliminated.

[Bellacruz54]

The article said they had died. I need to find the exact article and I will post......but it said a father and 5 year old daughter were among the casualities.....

[cmaygar]

I agree it seems that the captain is scared and incoherent and is unable to cope. The commander is yelling at him and threatening him at no avail. They should have stopped ordering him to go back to the ship and sent the police to get him right away as he was pretty much useless based on conversation. I wonder if the port authority just could not believe that a captain could be so incoherent and just kept trying to hold him responsible. I can't help but think of another captain in desperate times, the famous Captain Sully, who landed the plane in New York on the water and managed to save all his passengers. This was another situation that could have ended in disaster but did not because of Captain's actions. This was an underpaid Captain in a desperate situation with lots of panicking passengers (ok, not 4,000). However, his calm command, clear head, and calm organized crew saved everyone and he became a hero rather than a villain.

 

Sully was a hero. He dealt with a situation that he did not cause on purpose, unlike the Captain in this tragedy, and safely landed a huge airliner on the Hudson. He also ensured that he was the last person that was rescued from the plane as he assisted all passengers to safety before he was brought to shore.

 

By contrast, "Captain Uncourageous" here caused the accident himself by purposefully taking an unapproved course and running a cruise liner aground in an area that is noted as having a very rocky and dangerous coastline. The area is marked on navigation maps that he also seemed to totally disregard. His gross misjudgment was then worsened by delaying the abandon ship order by an hour from the moment of impact. This resulted in many of the lifeboats not being able to be lowered because the ship was listing precariously at this time. He then failed to notify the Coast Guard for assistance in rescuing passengers. He did not issue a "mayday" signal. He then left the boat with his 2nd in command while the botched evacuation was underway, not showing one care or concern for the passengers that he placed in peril due to his own reckless stupidity. This also happened after "Captain Clueless" did not hold a muster station drill at the beginning of the voyage, which may have saved some of those that perished because perhaps they could have been in a place where assistance could be rendered. When he reached land, he asked a taxi driver to take him far away in what looks like a futile attempt to evade authorities.

 

The only two similarities between Sully and this idiot is that they both had the word "Captain" in their titles. The similarity ends there.

[ghstudio]

Reports (a few pages ago on this thread) are that the exact same "fly-by pass" was done back in August by a different Captain. Schettino must have thought he could do it too.

 

I guess this might put to an end other "scenic maneuvers", such as the 360 degree spin that RCL ships take when passing the Pitons of St. Lucia. Darn shame if it gets eliminated.

 

Don't jump to conclusions. There is no reason to change current scenic maneuvers such as turning the ship off glacier bay or other areas where it is known to be safe....and the turns are left to the captain's discretion.

 

This was very different...and yes, it will stop a captain from doing a close "fly by" of land if it isn't planned carefully.

[JJSMaine]

I don't mean to be close minded but I fail to see the similarities with a teenager crashing daddy's Porsche and a 52-year-old (seasoned?) captain responsible for a half a billion dollar vessel and over 4,000 passengers and crew members. Would we have overlooked Captain 'Sully' Sullenberger actions if he would have ditched his plane and swam across the Hudson to safety leaving his crew and passengers stranded to fend for themselves? I think not!

 

 

I was trying to describe how I could try to put myself in the Captains shoes and I referred to a horrific incident where I rolled over my Mothers Saab 99 doing something stupid. I think it compares quite well... we both did something Stupid... thankfully I was a teenager and learned from it.

 

It is comparable because I was ignorant and had bravado I could not back up with skills.... this captain also did something ignorant as a result of bravado.. the big difference is our ages... one doesn't expect this kind of action from a 52 yr old captain, but it happens all the time with teenagers as part of growing up...

 

I was and am in no way trying to defend the captain, I was just trying to help people understand his state of mind.....

[alwayshappytocruise]

Alone, in a dark ship with rising water. This is not how anyone would want an elderly relative to die. Limited mobility, or a spouse with mobility issues, may well have decreased a person's chances of surviving what was supposed to be the trip of a lifetime.

 

Horrible equation to this.... do you remember the elderly that were left to die in at least one nursing home in New Orleans during Katrina? Nothing else to add to that......:mad:

 

Lynda

[mferris77]

I don't mean to be close minded but I fail to see the similarities with a teenager crashing daddy's Porsche and a 52-year-old (seasoned?) captain responsible for a half a billion dollar vessel and over 4,000 passengers and crew members. Would we have overlooked Captain 'Sully' Sullenberger actions if he would have ditched his plane and swam across the Hudson to safety leaving his crew and passengers stranded to fend for themselves? I think not!

 

Some people can keep their cool in a stressful situation. It's worth mentioning that Sully took control in an accident in which he had no control. Schettino was facing a nightmare scenario caused by his own doing.

 

The teenage car crash is a good analogy, in my opinion. The sudden realization that you have done something terribly, terribly wrong and reach a point of panicking denial and wishing that it was only a dream - "This can't be happening". I don't think any of us can sit here comfortably in front of our computers and say what we'd do in a situation like that. Some people would take charge and some people would mentally 'check out'. Fight or Flight and all that.

[vamartha]

Yes, being Italian had a great deal to do with this whole ordeal and how the audio tapes show the exchange with authorities.

 

First, this is an Italian Captain in his home country. He is on his own turf. Italian Captains are an elite breed and proud and fairly conceded people.

 

 

I really don't think you said what you meant to say.

 

Conceded means (in a nutshell) that you "throw in the towel". Maybe Webster can explain it better.

 

1. conceded past participle, past tense of con·cede (Verb)
    
   Verb:
   
   • Admit that something is true or valid after first denying or resisting it.
     
   • Admit (defeat) in a contest: "he conceded defeat".
     

More info »Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary

 

 

 

I think what you may have been trying to say was conceited.

 

 

 

1. con·ceit·ed/kənˈsētid/
    
   Adjective:Excessively proud of oneself; vain.
   Synonyms:arrogant - vain - overweening - haughty - uppish - proud
   More info »Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster
   

 

 

And I don't think that either are correct. This particular Captain may very well have been conceited however I don't think that you can make that blanket statement about Italian Captains in general.

 

 

That is like saying that all women are helpless, or all Native American Indians have a drinking problem or all Hispanics work in the service industry. You cannot make those generalizations.

 

 

[Milaandra]

Ah, well. It's not like I'm going to run for Miss Congeniality or anything...

 

I think the thing that bothered me most was hearing the Captain try to get out from under his order to return to the ship via a boat by explaining that it was DARK over there where his waitstaff was putting people into lifeboats and his entertainers were climbing down rope ladders and his passengers and crew were swimming in the cold black sea to shore

 

The captain answered that it was dark in response to the commandant telling the captain that he should be telling the commandant how many dead bodies there were. To me it doesn't read like his mind was slipping...it reads like the patient version of "How the f--- am I supposed to know? It's dark and I can't see f--- all!"

 

In response to the repeated demands to go up the rope, the captain was trying to explain something about another boat. We never get to hear what he would have said because he was interrupted by the commandant.

 

I would like to hear from the other officers on board the lifeboat.

[foxontherun]

Reports (a few pages ago on this thread) are that the exact same "fly-by pass" was done back in August by a different Captain. Schettino must have thought he could do it too.

 

I guess this might put to an end other "scenic maneuvers", such as the 360 degree spin that RCL ships take when passing the Pitons of St. Lucia. Darn shame if it gets eliminated.

 

We've been to St.Lucia 2 x in the last 18 months on Serenade and they didn't do the 360 which Serenade did the first 2 times we took that route.... AND when we left port at St. Lucia we were much further out from the shoreline more quickly. I don't think it's the same issue bc the drop off at St.Lucia is huge-it gets deep very quickly. I thought this was a gas savings thing, but I expect every cruise from every port will now eleminate any "scenic" departures. My question for Costa is: what's the record of this Captain? I don't think he's toed the line and suddenly screwed up, I bet when close examinations of the records are made, he has a history of minor infractions and rule bending.

[Mercury]

Sheer panic, the Captain would be in a very complex situation. He has just run a £320m vessel aground, he has 4200 pax/crew onboard. His career has just gone pear shaped. He has thoughts on how to save his vessel, getting all the relevant sorted out, what is a red herring, what is real, what is the true situation, he has various people asking for instructions or telling him information. I dont think 'drunk' will come into it - I would be thinking he is under great pressure and might be on the point of being unable to cope.....

 

Im not defending him I am just looking at what he might be going through, unless you are in these types of circumstances its kind of hard to appreciate the pressures. It is my opinion that he has been negligent through his actions and the full force of the law will be levied against him for it.

 

rgds

 

I'm with you on this. I can only imagine the panic that set in when he realised the enormity of what he'd done. He probably also went into denial. I am in no way condoning his behaviour but as they say, it is very difficult to judge someone when you are not in their shoes.

 

I hope the cruise lines learn from this and evaluate potential captains not only on their maritime knowledge but on their EQ as well. There needs to be personality profiling so that someone who likes taking risks (as this captain himself said in an interview in 2010) is quite simply NOT allowed to be the master of a cruise ship. I really think this is important and the cruiselines should hire the right psychologists to test all potential captains.

[HelloHelloHola]

I agree it seems that the captain is scared and incoherent and is unable to cope. The commander is yelling at him and threatening him at no avail. They should have stopped ordering him to go back to the ship and sent the police to get him right away as he was pretty much useless based on conversation. I wonder if the port authority just could not believe that a captain could be so incoherent and just kept trying to hold him responsible. I can't help but think of another captain in desperate times, the famous Captain Sully, who landed the plane in New York on the water and managed to save all his passengers. This was another situation that could have ended in disaster but did not because of Captain's actions. This was an underpaid Captain in a desperate situation with lots of panicking passengers (ok, not 4,000). However, his calm command, clear head, and calm organized crew saved everyone and he became a hero rather than a villain.

 

My guess is the commander was in disbelief when he learned the captain was on shore. He kept giving the captain opportunities to correct himself, even threatening him to make him miserable if he doesn't go back. I do agree that at some point, the captain showed he was incoherent and was not longer capable of leadership.

 

The root cause of the US Airways Flight 1549 is obviously different. However, it did illustrate Capt. Sully's qualities under pressure. The rest is legendary.

[cruiserfanfromct]

I was trying to describe how I could try to put myself in the Captains shoes and I referred to a horrific incident where I rolled over my Mothers Saab 99 doign something stupid. I think it compares quite well... we both did soemthing Stupid... thankfully I was a teenager and learned from it.

 

It is comparable because I was ignorant and had bravado I could not back up with skills.... this captain also did something ignorant as a result of bravdo.. the big difference is our ages... one doesn't expect this kind of action from a 52 yr old captain, but it happens all the time with teenagers as part of growing up...

 

I was and am in no way trying to defend the captain, I was just trying to help people understand his state of mind.....

Okay JJSMaine - no worries - I'll give you that one. We both agree that a 52 year old should have more sense and known better and we'll leave it at that.

 

Glad you were able to learn from your mistakes - doesn't look like this captain will ever be given a second chance for this extremely costly and asinine mistake - sad for him and his family not to mention the dead and wounded.

[Bellacruz54]

"Though the identities of the bodies recovered on Tuesday have not been released, identities of missing individuals are slowly coming to light. Italian William Arlotti, 34, along with his five-year-old daughter Dyana are among those passengers unaccounted for as are Gerald and Barbara Heil, a retired couple from Minnesota. Maria D'Introno, a 30-year old Italian on the cruise with her new husband and members of their families has also not been seen since Friday night. And appeals have been made on behalf of crewmember Erika Soria, 26, a tourism student, by her father Saturnino to TV news outlets in their home country of Peru, according to SKY News."

 

.... sorry I listed them as dead and the article states unaccounted for. I pray to God they are found......

[Red Mini Stapler]

The captain answered that it was dark in response to the commandant telling the captain that he should be telling the commandant how many dead bodies there were. To me it doesn't read like his mind was slipping...it reads like the patient version of "How the f--- am I supposed to know? It's dark and I can't see f--- all!"

.

 

 

Maybe someone should let him know that the wonderful invention called a "flashlight" which helps people see in the dark. :rolleyes:

[guernseyguy]

My question for Costa is: what's the record of this Captain? I don't think he's toed the line and suddenly screwed up, I bet when close examinations of the records are made, he has a history of minor infractions and rule bending.

There were suggestions in the Italian press today that "he has previous" as they say in the courts - the cited example was a questionable departure from Marsailles last year in high winds....I'm sure it will all come out in the enquiry.....but then there's nothing quite like being "wise after the event" - when did a "one off" become "a pattern"?

[umieesa]

Globetrotter..thank you.

 

It is not easy after listening to the whole thing since some parts are kind of muffled. How frustrating it must've been for the Port Captain and others trying to help when there's not even a Captain or Commander on board giving any orders! :eek:

 

I'm really interested to hear how things unfold and how the Captain tries to defend himself when obviously the evidence seems clearly against him.

[Isklaar]

Some people can keep their cool in a stressful situation. It's worth mentioning that Sully took control in an accident in which he had no control. Schettino was facing a nightmare scenario caused by his own doing.

 

The teenage car crash is a good analogy, in my opinion. The sudden realization that you have done something terribly, terribly wrong and reach a point of panicking denial and wishing that it was only a dream - "This can't be happening". I don't think any of us can sit here comfortably in front of our computers and say what we'd do in a situation like that. Some people would take charge and some people would mentally 'check out'. Fight or Flight and all that.

 

Very well said.

[4kids3dogs2cats&fish]

We've been to St.Lucia 2 x in the last 18 months on Serenade and they didn't do the 360 which Serenade did the first 2 times we took that route.... AND when we left port at St. Lucia we were much further out from the shoreline more quickly. I don't think it's the same issue bc the drop off at St.Lucia is huge-it gets deep very quickly. I thought this was a gas savings thing, but I expect every cruise from every port will now eliminate any "scenic" departures.

 

It probably won't be the cruise lines that will eliminate it, it will be their insurers who will demand that they eliminate it.