Costa Concordia SINKING

[NormanW]

I'm not familiar with Costa Concordia, but on The Arcadia, a Vista class modern ship of about 87,000 tons, the Emergency Diesel Generator (EDG) provides up to 1.2MW to the 690V emergency switchboard.

 

Arcadia's three bow thrusters require 1.9MW each, and are powered from the 11kV bus.

 

There isn't a 690V to 11kV transformer, so I can't see how the EDG can provide power to the bow thrusters on Arcadia - and you wouldn't want to try doing so because all that would happen is that the EDG breaker would trip. I would guess (and it is a guess) that Costa Condordia's emergency electical system is configured in a similar manner.

 

VP

Important things in bold here. Definitely not going to get power to bow thrusters with just EDG. The distribution infrastructure just doesn't exist.

 

(drifting a bit off topic here) This reminds me of the scene near the end of Speed 2 where the men were cranking on a bow thruster wheel [sic] to steer the ship! Now I know Seabourne's vessels are like lifeboats compared to something like Oasis class but still! A very fit man can develop perhaps 1kW for VERY short periods of time. (and in the movie they had to do this while holding their breath underwater!) That's not going to do anything to ~10 tons of ship moving at 16 knots. ;)

 

Like I said it's pure speculation at this point. The official report when released will have what actually happened. :)

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[Silverado6x6]

 

Forgive me for showing this cutaway view at this time but I would like to show that where the gash happened on the port side seems to exactly where the main generators are located.

 

this is supposedly the Concordia Class model.

http://www.worldcruise-network.com/projects/costa-concordia/costa-concordia1.html

[JJSMaine]

I'm far from expert but I know they have referred to a topside emergency generator called the "Donald Duck" generator. Someone in the gCaptain page's comments also mentioned the disconnect between ability to use thrusters and the power outage. Perhaps the turning was achieved simply due to the wind and current (wind was blowing in the direction where they ultimately ended up).

 

 

That was me...

 

This video which is better resolution but no narration..

 

http://www.qps.nl/download/attachments/6718686/Grounding+Costa+Concordia.wmv

 

Which will download the 5mb video to your machine.. or it did to mine..

 

..has time stamps that are visible. Rock hit at approx 20:44 - ship beached and stationary at 21.54.

 

The question I asked on gCaptain was...

 

Would a 12 knot wind out of the NorthEast create the same motion as we see in the animation? ... without any thruster power?... seems if the power grid was shorted/blown out, as in the Splendor incident, which seems likely given complete compromise of the hull and seawater intrusion into he engine rooms and a more than two compartment breech ... I suppose they could have had one generator and the ability to feed the thrusters up front... but I dunno... again a bit on conjecture... but a lot of what we guessed has been accurate.... now back to catching up ...

 

Also .. I still think no anchor was deployed.... but again we'll see...

 

EDIT.. if they had power for thrusters, would they not have had power for the engines powering the props? )

[greg-nc]

CEO: Costa captain misled company, crew

 

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press – 1 hour ago

ROME (AP) — The chief executive of the company that owns the Costa Concordia cruise ship says the captain who grounded it off the coast of Tuscany did not relay correct information to the company or the crew after the vessel hit rocks.

 

CEO Pierluigi Foschi told Italian state TV Friday his company spoke to the captain at 10:05 p.m., some 20 minutes after the ship was grounded but could not offer proper assistance because the captain's description "did not correspond to the truth."

 

Capt. Francesco Schettino only said he had "problems" aboard but did not

mention hitting rocks.

 

Foschi said crew members were not informed of the gravity of the situation either. (more at url)

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hr8c74bg2FUyjewCNPkv-OwbsOgw?docId=0423aa28f2494ea9b87d610b6e173d25

 

Sounds like Costa is trying to separate themselves at much as possible from the captain.

 

One commentator said that the Italian legal system is different than the U.S., and that pinning blame on a single employee acting out-of-bounds would help clear an Italian company of civil liability from passengers.

 

The insurance for the ship is handled by companies that follow U.K. law; which allow the company to collect insurance money on the ship only their employees are acting responsibly in an accident.

 

So in some strange way... it sounds like to get out of civil liability in Italy with the passengers, Costa needs to claim the captain was acting out-of-bounds. Costa will need to do the oppositte with the insurance companies and claim their captain was acting responsibly and the entire thing is an accident.

 

Please note that I am not any type of legal expert and am just trying to summarize information from others - the best I can.

[PelicanBill]

I found these specs on a different cruise ship:

Power for the Carnival Pride comes from six Wartsila generators that can generate a total of 62,370 kilowatt hours of power





Pure speculation:

Perhaps the Concordia has multiple generators and there was still enough power to operate one bow thruster, but the engines had shut down from loss of the total power needed... or from safety systems that detected water.



It's hard to verify, but the AIS data seems to suggest he had some rudder control too, at least for a bit. The data records should reveal all this.

[Cuizer2]

Okay folks, here is what you have been waiting for - the answers to all your questions ...

 

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/costa-concordia-disaster-become-discovery-channel-special-exclusive-100503601.html;_ylt=AjS3NSDsozuMNLGiMrvPkpl_o9EF;_ylu=X3oDMTQ2ZXJxM2k5BG1pdANNb3JlIG9uIFlhaG9vIFRWBHBrZwNkNzMwZWRlMS05ZTRjLTM5OTktOWJkYi0xODk0MzUyOWQ2M2MEcG9zAzMEc2VjA01lZGlhRmVhdHVyZWRDYXJvdXNlbAR2ZXIDNTA0ZWU1ZjAtNDM3OC0xMWUxLThlOWItZDgyNjJkNGNkZjkw;_ylg=X3oDMTJ0ajBmNm92BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDYjI4YzBhNDItMmU4My0zYTcyLTg5NWYtYTk4ZDNmMDU1MDVhBHBzdGNhdANuZXdzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=3

 

Well, okay, you have to wait until spring.

[Silverado6x6]

Well said, thanks for answering my question about your engines many posts ago. The on-topic discussion/speculation that we are having now concerns if thrusters were even available with the limited electrical power available from the top side emergency generator and if the output voltage (not just wattage) was even the right voltage for that bus. It is for the hydraulic pumps for the rudder, but the massive load that a thruster represents is the question. It is in the official transcripts that someone shared here, that the captain was patting himself on the back for his seamanship after the fact, but I suspect it was only the speed reducing turn that was timed properly that allowed wind and current to push the vessel to its final resting spot.

 

 

I had to drive into town, I am having internet problems, just a dialup here and the winds have been gusting over 50mph so i may be here one hour and then off again, plus i am digging through other data.

 

frankly I have nothing better to do as I manage a concrete batching facility, and its shut down until early spring so I am having a long seasonal vacation at the time being. And boats must be in my blood, my whole man cave is nothing but big wood sailing ships, a 5' long Gato class submarine, two Titanics, the Savannah Nuke ship) and the Queen Elizabeth ship model, a big one.

[King of Cool]

i

slandmandan Hey King of Cool, how about leaving politics out of this discussion!

That particular point was political CORRECTNESS - not politics. No desire whatsoever to raise politics, plenty of sites for that. Sorry if it offended.

[JJSMaine]

those souls that perished in this event, I think we can all agree on the incredibly horrific event this would have become had the CONCORDIA settled in deeper waters further from the shore.:o

 

 

Even if the captain had anchored at the northern point or before, there *may* have been ample time to evac the ship.

 

At 20:54, a full hour hour before the ship settled against the shore the ship was adrift at less than one knot and was not listing severe enough to have effect lifeboat loading,

 

I feel strongly that if they had called to get the passengers off, ASAP, we would have no more dead than the crew that likely died at impact, and those that mat have died frot he stress of the situation.

 

Certainly the French couple, the wife of whom got the life jacket and her husband perished in the water... they wouldn't have felt they had to jump.... and the folks found in their muster stations... found dead... having waited for someone to come tell them it was time to get into a life boat... it seems unforgiveable... why take the chance on waiting.. ?

 

I hate to beat the horse any more, but I keep coming back to that they must have known the ship was doomed very soon after..... I cannot fathom that within 10 minutes they didn't know the hull was breached and water was pouring in... but I wasn't there... I so wish the court would publish a set of dry facts that would give us the real timeline... but I will be grasshopper and wait... :)

[deckofficer]

To use the thrusters then, the second engine room must have been operational, at least for a period of time, you think? I am wondering would it have been better if the ship just dropped anchor at the point where the turn was made. If they had done that, they still were not too far from shore and the ship might not have developed the list to starboard? Just a thought.

 

This is a question I hate to respond to because it upsets so many folks on this forum. The captain might have been arrogant, but was no dummy. He knows how tender the positive stability of any cruise ship is, and the clock was ticking for the loss of positive stability and a capsize. If in deeper water, 1000's would have lost their lives, if semi beached and supported by the seabed, many if not all could be saved. At least that is how I would have reacted if I delayed the abandon ship alarm as long as he did. You have to remember he also delayed any shore side response with the claim of "only experiencing an electrical problem" when first contacted by port authorities who were contacted by passengers using their cell phones.

[SomeBeach]

Just an FYI:

ABC's 20/20 will feature some or all of its show tonight on the Concordia.

[NormanW]

I found these specs on a different cruise ship:

Power for the Carnival Pride comes from six Wartsila generators that can generate a total of 62,370 kilowatt hours of power



 

Pure speculation:

Perhaps the Concordia has multiple generators and there was still enough power to operate one bow thruster, but the engines had shut down from loss of the total power needed... or from safety systems that detected water.

 

It's hard to verify, but the AIS data seems to suggest he had some rudder control too, at least for a bit. The data records should reveal all this.

 

There's too much interpolation between points for accuracy to make a judgement call. Our VDRs read GPS at 5Hz. That's pretty revealing in comparison. ;) Unfortunately accident reports take 12-18 months to be release. :(

 

Oh generator power output is measured in kilowatts or megawatts (1MW = 1,000kW). Kilowatt-hours are a measure of consumption where 1 unit represents 1,000 watts load running for one hour OR 1 watt load running for 1000 hours.

 

p.s. We hail ahoy to M/S Pride, callsign H3VU in Baltimore at every passing. Nice "little" ship! If I were female I'd be inclined to use the word cute. :D

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[kwbound]

My question is about the ship listing over in her final landing place. Did butting up against the shallow seabed close to shore cause her to list all the way over on her side like that? Or would the same thing have happened in deep water and the shallow seabed actually kept her from going all the way over? If a ship like that keels overs all the way in deep water, would it then sink quickly, or would it float upside down?

[jcl410]

Here are a couple of questions to discuss....

 

1) Has any one seen a report as to which compartment(s?) were breached by the rock?

 

2) Based on reports from the Carnival Splendor fire, we know that the Costa Concordia has two engine rooms each containing 3 diesel generators and a high voltage (11KV? 6kV?) switch board. The two switch boards are supposed to be able to work either together or independently, but in the Splendor's case, that didn't happen; the fire in the aft engine room caused both switch boards to be unusable. (Why that is is still being investigated.)

 

3) Does any one know if the two main propulsion motors were in a separate compartment? Or maybe one in the forward engine room and one in the aft?

 

4) Have there been any reports from any of the the engineers on board? Does Costa man the engine room 24 hours a day?

 

5) Is it possible that the hotel power went out but not the high voltage bus(es)?

 

Aloha,

 

John

[deckofficer]

Here are a couple of questions to discuss....

 

1) Has any one seen a report as to which compartment(s?) were breached by the rock?

 

2) Based on reports from the Carnival Splendor fire, we know that the Costa Concordia has two engine rooms each containing 3 diesel generators and a high voltage (11KV? 6kV?) switch board. The two switch boards are supposed to be able to work either together or independently, but in the Splendor's case, that didn't happen; the fire in the aft engine room caused both switch boards to be unusable. (Why that is is still being investigated.)

 

3) Does any one know if the two main propulsion motors were in a separate compartment? Or maybe one in the forward engine room and one in the aft?

 

4) Have there been any reports from any of the the engineers on board? Does Costa man the engine room 24 hours a day?

 

5) Is it possible that the hotel power went out but not the high voltage bus(es)?

 

Aloha,

 

John

 

John,

 

Can only answer #4 with certainty, the engine room (inside a nice A/C room with consoles) is manned by an engineer, Chief thru 3rd, depending on the watch rotation.

[Enigm@]

 

Frankly I wish more people would give credit to where its due and that was the seamanship of getting a vessel of this size mortally wounded, its belly ripped out, probably lost all its main power and yet the captain managed to get this monster of a ship to shore before it sank stern first.

 

Myself I have to look at this before what the mainstream media is trying to pin on him and a lot of people want to blame him, but he did his job after his mistake. Until we get the official transcripts of every single minute I am just staying a bit neutral, I can blame him possibly and eventually but not just yet. Too much of a lynch mob mentality going on.

 

I totally agree, I've thought about the skill of getting the ship to shore more or less since the beginning. I'm also trying to keep reasonably open minded & await the full details. There must be an element of chinese whispers about all the reports we are reading.

However...I'm not so sure now it was the Captain who took this action. Reports at present seem to indicate that he spent in the region of an hour on the 'phone after hitting the rocks. Someone was responsible for handling the ship during this time though, & whoever it was, (if not the Captain maybe Bosio or another officer?), did their best to save lives & the ship and should be commended for this action at least.

 

I can't help feeling though, if the abandon ship had been given, (Captain's responsibity of course so the hands of the other officers were tied at this point), then & there..meaning as soon as the extent of the damage was known, engine rooms flooded etc etc, then the evacuation could have been carried out safely. Then again...what do I know? I'm just a dummy whose only knowledge of ships is that they travel on water.

[fourkittys]

That has got to feel weird for those on board. I know I'm going to feel a bit odd boarding my cruise in April. It will be impossible to get this accident out of my mind, especially since I'll be sailing on April 14, the 100 year anniversary of when the Titanic hit the iceberg :eek:

 

I chose that date for a reason though, so I could be at sea to remember the victims of that tragedy. Now, I have one more remembrance to add. :(

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the other ship IS NOT four miles out but is taking a similar route the Concordia took, could that be?????:D

[ghstudio]

Iquote]

 

We have no facts on who was on the bridge, who was in control of the ship at any point, what was said on the phone.....all is conjecture or questionable "eye witness" reports which are notoriously inaccurate. we have the captain on the bridge, on a lifeboat, on a reef, on shore at some (undefined) time after the ship stopped on it's side. We have a GPS route missing several points, yet we have a few fancy presentations on the route of the ship with a timeline that also hasn't really been substantiated by many facts.

 

Most of what you are reading is typical newcasting.....the captain is one step worse than the devil, etc. Costa is happy to have all fingers pointing to the captain...so is Carnival Holding Company....after all, this could actually effect bookings.

 

we have those that say that legal action can only occur in the US, and we have a group already identified that will be filing legal action in the US next week.

 

Hey folks...it's a mess and we have few facts. However we will continue to see more "facts" (intentionally in quotes) on TV on tonight's special and in the news. This will takes years to work out....and costa is hoping that it will die down and not effect their other bookings. That's the big issue....that's the key issue for Costa....and so far they have been very successful in convincing the press that they were just innnocent bystanders in all this.

 

Congratulations CostaHQ......and shame on the news media.

[suzski]

I totally agree, I've thought about the skill of getting the ship to shore more or less since the beginning. I'm also trying to keep reasonably open minded & await the full details. There must be an element of chinese whispers about all the reports we are reading.

However...I'm not so sure now it was the Captain who took this action. Reports at present seem to indicate that he spent in the region of an hour on the 'phone after hitting the rocks. Someone was responsible for handling the ship during this time though, & whoever it was, (if not the Captain maybe Bosio or another officer?), did their best to save lives & the ship and should be commended for this action at least.

 

I can't help feeling though, if the abandon ship had been given, (Captain's responsibity of course so the hands of the other officers were tied at this point), then & there..meaning as soon as the extent of the damage was known, engine rooms flooded etc etc, then the evacuation could have been carried out safely. Then again...what do I know? I'm just a dummy whose only knowledge of ships is that they travel on water.

 

I can't help but be part of the lynch mob. First off, my moms were going to be joining the ship in Savona so that was a close call. Second, I was on the USS Cole when it was bombed in Yemen and MY Captain would have NEVER abandoned the ship....without going into too much suffice to say I know that his #1 priority was for the safety of the crew first and then the ship... The fact that this Captain obviously did not see things the same way is what damns him in my eyes....forget all the other mistakes he made (not having the passengers go to muster as a precaution as soon as this occurred, etc.)

[degarr]

iThat particular point was political CORRECTNESS - not politics. No desire whatsoever to raise politics, plenty of sites for that. Sorry if it offended.

 

Agree, it was noting a news story on the a polititon's comments on the Concordia not the poster offering any political opinion

[Leadft]

I totally agree, I've thought about the skill of getting the ship to shore more or less since the beginning. I'm also trying to keep reasonably open minded & await the full details. There must be an element of chinese whispers about all the reports we are reading.

However...I'm not so sure now it was the Captain who took this action. Reports at present seem to indicate that he spent in the region of an hour on the 'phone after hitting the rocks. Someone was responsible for handling the ship during this time though, & whoever it was, (if not the Captain maybe Bosio or another officer?), did their best to save lives & the ship and should be commended for this action at least.

 

I can't help feeling though, if the abandon ship had been given, (Captain's responsibity of course so the hands of the other officers were tied at this point), then & there..meaning as soon as the extent of the damage was known, engine rooms flooded etc etc, then the evacuation could have been carried out safely. Then again...what do I know? I'm just a dummy whose only knowledge of ships is that they travel on water.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I mean, yes, the Captain did a good thing by beaching the ship where he did. I will give him credit for that. But that doesn't make him any sort of hero and he still deserves massive punishment. This was HIS FAULT, even if he somewhat corrected it in the end. More than 30 people are still dead.

 

If a serial killer killed 30 people, then donated his blood and bone marrow to save the lives of hundreds -- he still needs to be in jail for being a serial killer. In my opinion, the captain deserves to be vilified.

[jopocop]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/01/google-earth-costa-concordia.html

 

Track the Costa Concordia's course via a digital simulation

 

 

A New Zealand-based company has created a Google Earth simulation of the path of the Costa Concordia, the cruise ship that went aground last week off the coast of Tuscany.

 

PlanetinAction.com owner Paul van Dinther created the model using cruise ship tracking data from Cleancruising.com.au and a radio system that transmits ship course and speed to other vessels. He had already visualized cruises for Cleancruising.com.au in the past, creating digital tours to sell cruises.

 

"When the Concordia went down, we thought, 'We have this model, maybe we can do something with it,'" Van Dinther said in a phone interview from New Zealand. He said he plans to use his technology to do more simulations of news events.

 

Credit goes to PlanetInAction.com and Cleancruising.com.au:

[degarr]

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I mean, yes, the Captain did a good thing by beaching the ship where he did. I will give him credit for that. But that doesn't make him any sort of hero and he still deserves massive punishment. This was HIS FAULT, even if he somewhat corrected it in the end. More than 30 people are still dead.

If a serial killer killed 30 people, then donated his blood and bone marrow to save the lives of hundreds -- he still needs to be in jail for being a serial killer. In my opinion, the captain deserves to be vilified.

 

Should the highlighted bit be corrected, there is a search and rescue happening albeit dire at this stage

[glrounds]

iThat particular point was political CORRECTNESS - not politics. No desire whatsoever to raise politics, plenty of sites for that. Sorry if it offended.

 

Well said, King.

 

And McQueen truly is the King of Cool. :D

 

[Leadft]

Should the highlighted bit be corrected, there is a search and rescue happening albeit dire at this stage

 

No, they have announced the search and rescue operation is over and it has officially become a recovery operation.