Costa Concordia SINKING

[deckofficer]

So why did it happen that no bridge offficers took any action when previous dangerous sail bys of the island took place, just a few metres from where the Concordia was impaled? Was it due to some aspect embedded in human psychology that sends people into a kind of denial when extreme peril occurs?

 

 

From my experience it is rather simple, as a deck officer you don't question the "old man" and his actions.

[dwaynesworld]

And one shot from a vessel nobody would want to cruise on, it shows watertight door status, fire alarm status, and the lower main board are tanks with pump control to keep vessel level.

 

 

sub?

 

so the questions of hour (or minute, really) are did the (AH) captain not order abandon ship b/c the ship was moving too quickly and turning around, and if he had slowed in deeper water to abandon would she have capsized with more fatalities?

[Milaandra]

 

Interesting read ~

 

 

http://www.law.washington.edu/Directory/docs/Allen/Publications/Article_1994_CaptainsDutySinkingShipTake2.pdf

 

I had read that article and I just read it again to make sure I hadn't misunderstood.

 

But the Handbook isn't law.

 

Here's a really good article about the whole issue, which includes the information about the Italian Code of Navigation Article 1097, which Schettino has been charged with.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371

 

Schettino has also been charged under the penal code for neglect of minors or incapacitated persons (outlined in the following article on page 8)

 

http://www.inthenameofthemother.com/doc/Report_elder_abuse_in_Italy.pdf

 

In this article, a US maritime trial lawyer admits he doesn't know if a captain abandoning his ship is illegal, but says it is protocol.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/01/alleged-actions-by-cruise-ship-captain-unforgivable-maritime-lawyer-says/

 

Here is another article:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-italy-ship-maritimelaw-idUSTRE80J1R020120120

 

And since my eyes are now bugging out of my head from too much internet research too quickly, I'll leave it at that. :p

[Highlander0108]

Here is a photo of the camera shots from the RCI Monarch of the Seas. They are of the engine room, as seen on the monitors in the adjacent engine control room. These same camera shots are viewable from the bridge. I chose the Monarch shots because that ship is about 15 years older than the Concordia.

 

 

 

Here is a bank of monitors showing 9 monitors, 4 separate cameras on each monitor. They are showing engine room, elevators, laundry area, smokestacks, and a variety of other areas.

 

 

One point about the monitors; would they have gone black due to lack of power and/or lighting if the hit was directly at the engine room? The bridge would not know exactly the extent of damage (power failure ala Splendor, but would that really have caused the ship movement?) and would need to have visual or eyewitness reports from that area of the ship. Pray that no crew were in that area at the time of impact.

[Milaandra]

There are photos early in this thread where the ship was low in the water and it was not listing 20 degrees.

 

Of course the captain has to say more than 20 degrees. That's the magic number where they don't necessarily have to work.

 

Wait, wait, wait! I never said that Shettino said it was 20 degrees! I said there were reports.

 

Were you ever a reporter? :D:D (just teasing)

 

I don't suppose you could easily find the photos? I'll see what I can find on this end to confirm the estimated degree of list.

 

I'm just not sure I'm up for it tonight.

[jopocop]

When will the Italian authorities place a warning buoy out on Le Scole Rocks given what happened?

Sure, the whole marine world now knows about these rocks to stay clear of them, but, it seems that those rocks where deserving of a buoy anyway given how they extend fairly out from the shore.

In fact, maybe this is a wake up call for more surveys along well travel areas that have potential under water dangers where they insert more buoys.

That Le Scole rocks seem such a hazzard, even for smaller craft that come in that area from the mainland.

[reallyitsmema]

[quote name='Milaandra']Wait, wait, wait! I never said that Shettino said it was 20 degrees! I said there were reports.

Were you ever a reporter? :D:D (just teasing)

I don't suppose you could easily find the photos? I'll see what I can find on this end to confirm the estimated degree of list.

I'm just not sure I'm up for it tonight.[/quote]
[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57885000/jpg/_57885636_013702595-1.jpg[/IMG]

[deckofficer]

[quote name='dwaynesworld']sub?

so the questions of hour (or minute, really) are did the (AH) captain not order abandon ship b/c the ship was moving too quickly and turning around, and if he had slowed in deeper water to abandon would she have capsized with more fatalities?[/QUOTE]

Not a sub, 32,000 ton drill ship.

Had I been the captain, after the flooding alarms and knowledge of what spaces have been compromised, I would have ordered abandon ship. There are no vessels with less positive stability than a cruise ship. As the vessel was slowing from lack of propulsion the lifeboats would be loading, and as soon possible when all vessel speed is gone, would lower the already loaded lifeboats. I know this is Monday night quarterbacking, but you have to remember, due to very low positive stability, time to capsize is accelerated.

[EVALUATOR]

[quote name='Milaandra']Wait, wait, wait! I never said that Shettino said it was 20 degrees! I said there were reports.

Were you ever a reporter? :D:D (just teasing)

I don't suppose you could easily find the photos? I'll see what I can find on this end to confirm the estimated degree of list.

I'm just not sure I'm up for it tonight.[/quote]

Try post 9. That's close to 20 degrees. It's hard to tell. But in that one most of the life boats are already launched.

I wouldn't bet on the list amount though. I'm guessing 19 7/8.

[deckofficer]

[quote name='Highlander0108']One point about the monitors; would they have gone black due to lack of power and/or lighting if the hit was directly at the engine room? The bridge would not know exactly the extent of damage (power failure ala Splendor, but would that really have caused the ship movement?) and would need to have visual or eyewitness reports from that area of the ship. Pray that no crew were in that area at the time of impact.[/QUOTE]

On critical instruments and monitors, they have battery back-up through an inverter, so at most they might have flickered. At this point the top side emergency generator kicks in and takes over charging those batteries. In an emergency, bridge personal do not need the distraction of losing power till the emergency generator kicks in.

[HelloHelloHola]

[quote name='deckofficer']On critical instruments and monitors, they have battery back-up through an inverter, so at most they might have flickered. At this point the top side emergency generator kicks in and takes over charging those batteries. In an emergency, bridge personal do not need the distraction of losing power till the emergency generator kicks in.[/QUOTE]

Was wondering about the batteries for a while. Are these batteries connected to those thrusters (and rudder) that some thought took the ship to shore?

[Aplmac]

[quote name='jopocop']When will the Italian authorities [COLOR=Black]place[B] a warning buoy[/B] [/COLOR]out on Le Scole Rocks given what happened?[/quote][COLOR=Black][B]Maybe even a lighthouse!![/B][/COLOR] :cool:

[COLOR=Black]Using Google Earth, I've had a decent look at the island
and didn't notice any lighthouses along its coastline..

Hope I'm wrong..[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=White].[/COLOR]

[EVALUATOR]

[quote name='Highlander0108']One point about the monitors; would they have gone black due to lack of power and/or lighting if the hit was directly at the engine room? The bridge would not know exactly the extent of damage (power failure ala Splendor, but would that really have caused the ship movement?) and would need to have visual or eyewitness reports from that area of the ship. Pray that no crew were in that area at the time of impact.[/quote]

That's hard to say on the video monitors. I don't think people said the power went out at the instant of impact. Also, the captain said he saw the foam from the water hitting his "uncharted" rock and steered hard to starboard to keep from hitting it head on. He knew it was going to hit. The flood alarms should have been screaming before the 12 or so seconds the hull of the ship was being ripped open had passed.

[EVALUATOR]

[quote name='aplmac'][COLOR=Black][B]Maybe even a lighthouse!![/B][/COLOR] :cool:

[COLOR=Black]Using Google Earth, I've had a decent look at the island
and didn't notice any lighthouses along its coastline..

Hope I'm wrong..[/COLOR]
[COLOR=White].[/COLOR]
[COLOR=White].[/COLOR][/quote]

Then he would have said he was blinded by the lights.:eek:

[frediver]

[quote name='Silverado6x6']With all due respect the technology exists, its the simplified mass production and integration that has yet to be addressed. It was only in the last two or so years we have even seen highly efficient tablets, smartphones, I personally own two Kindle Touch tablets with over 100 books stored on each one, they connect by 3G, they can actually give me a map or a book in less than ten seconds, and are affordable.

Look at it like this, the ship issues its version of a smartphone but its an in house system, it announces events, docking times, muster calls etc, plus a personal identifier.

You will get charged for it if lost or not returned when you disembark.

Think of it as the e-ships pursor. Sorry if the future approaches too fast, at my age I even have problems with it:D[/quote]
No they do not work UNDERWATER. Any system that might be used UnderWater will require a very large power supply, not anything you will be able to put in your pocket,wallet or purse!

[deckofficer]

[quote name='HelloHelloHola']Was wondering about the batteries for a while. Are these batteries connected to those thrusters (and rudder) that some thought took the ship to shore?[/QUOTE]

This has been discussed on this thread. Batteries do not have the storage energy for powering a thruster. I doubt the thrusters were used unless some of the main generators were still running. A thruster takes over a megawatt of electricity. The motors that run the hydraulic pumps that move the rudder are able to run on the top side generator.

[cruiserfanfromct]

[IMG]http://www.intoon.com/toons/2012/KeefeM20120120.jpg[/IMG][quote name='deckofficer']Not a sub, 32,000 ton drill ship.

Had I been the captain, after the flooding alarms and knowledge of what spaces have been compromised, I would have ordered abandon ship. There are no vessels with less positive stability than a cruise ship. As the vessel was slowing from lack of propulsion the lifeboats would be loading, and as soon possible when all vessel speed is gone, would lower the already loaded lifeboats. I know this is Monday night quarterbacking, but you have to remember, due to very low positive stability, time to capsize is accelerated.[/quote]

[HelloHelloHola]

[quote name='deckofficer']This has been discussed on this thread. Batteries do not have the storage energy for powering a thruster. I doubt the thrusters were used unless some of the main generators were still running. A thruster takes over a megawatt of electricity.[/QUOTE]


Sorry, I thought the EPG was not capable. Thanks for the correction.

[BalconyBumz]

[quote name='deckofficer']Not a sub, 32,000 ton drill ship.

Had I been the captain, after the flooding alarms and knowledge of what spaces have been compromised, I would have ordered abandon ship. There are no vessels with less positive stability than a cruise ship. As the vessel was slowing from lack of propulsion the lifeboats would be loading, and as soon possible when all vessel speed is gone, would lower the already loaded lifeboats. I know this is Monday night quarterbacking, but you have to remember, due to very low positive stability, time to capsize is accelerated.[/quote]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkOrchid]Had I been the Captain, I wouldn't have done something so foolish in the first place.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[BalconyBumz]

[quote name='EVALUATOR']Then he would have said he was blinded by the lights.:eek:[/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkOrchid]
That would have taken place before he tripped and fell, yes?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[deckofficer]

[quote name='HelloHelloHola']Sorry, I thought the EPG was not capable. Thanks for the correction.[/QUOTE]

You are correct the EPG is not capable of powering the thrusters.

[deckofficer]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct'][IMG]http://www.intoon.com/toons/2012/KeefeM20120120.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

My tail isn't that long.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Interesting legal perspective from an attorney. A radio show concerning the legalities to air tomorrow morning on the internet:

[URL]http://blog.myphillylawyer.com/2012/01/21/court-radio-cruise-ship-accident-in-mediterranean-highlights-what-you-need-to-know-about-travel-law/[/URL]

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='deckofficer']My tail isn't that long.[/quote] But your "tales" are :D

[Aplmac]

[quote name='Highlander0108'] Pray that no crew were in that area at the time of impact.[/quote][COLOR=Black]This is likely where the 20 or so unaccounted-for will be found.

Crew working down in the bowels of the ship (Laundry and suchlike?)
would have been [I]immediately [/I]flooded with [I]seconds [/I]to react, if at all.
Not a chance, poor sods.

I saw one shot of the damaged area clearly showing the turquoise-painted internal bulkheads.
This was no small hole.
This was big enough for serious sunlight to get in there and show what is never seen by me and you.
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