Costa Concordia SINKING

[patrioticgirl]

So very true...I am surprised the poster's crude, hurtful and inflammatory posts haven't been pulled.

I am quite in agreement..... the offensive posts should be removed, as was was the initial offending generalization that stirred up some of this ugly ruckus. Unfortunately, the initial generalization that some found offensive can still be found quoted in post 5022. Hopefully, the moderators will remove the quoted original statement as well.

I must share that part of my frustation with this thread is that it often veers from the topic. I will admit that I too have shared in the diversion in the few posts I have made to clarify mis-information shared about the Mason-Dixon Line and the generalizations made about those living below it, and for that, I offer my sincerest appologies.

If the sidebar discussions continue, the thread may indeed be moved to the floataway lounge, or even worse, locked due to mud slinging. Let's not let that happen. With that, I suggest that we all make an effort to keep the discussion from this point forward related to information related to sinking of the Concordia, which is the topic thread. The thread has indeed been very helpful for those of us who wish to keep abreast of the latest information about the status of the ship, the evacuation and recovery efforts, and the stories associated with all involved. Keeping on topic, without the added discussions or opinions, will ensure that it remains so, especially if civility is practiced.

[Uniall]

When you first added the bit about undecideds not being included, I thought you meant that they weren't considered as a yes or a no, not that they would be considered a non-vote.

 

Which means that the question was solely for people who had already judged Schettino. Which is odd, considering the law is based on the premise that the accused is innocent until proven guilty (or in the case of Italian law, non-guilty until proven guilty) and a reasonable doubt is interpreted as a non-guilty verdict.

 

There were many clear and unequivocal "no" answers. By all means consider those as verdicts in your public opinion trial. But to ignore the undecided vote (okay...yes...me) and say that 100% of people found him guilty is contrary to the rules of mathematics and the rules of law. According to criminal law, if we were a 16 member jury making a verdict, my answer would, in fact, make it impossible for a guilty verdict, wouldn't it? (Based on my extensive knowlege of the law gleaned from Hollywood blockbusters and the novels of John Grisham :D)

 

While I don't expect to be considered as hanging the jury, I do think that my answer should have been considered as a "non no".

 

Your conclusion was that of those who responded to the question, 100% found him guilty. Since I responded and I didn't find him guilty, I refute that percentage.

 

So there! :D

 

Milaandra

 

The point I was trying to make is there are three types of courts: Criminal Court (Jail),

Civil Court (money damges) and

Court of Public Opinion (scorn, ridicule, animosity, hatred, loathing. etc).

 

Each one has a lower threshold of evidence necessary to prove guilt. The amount of proof to convict someone in the Court of Public Opinion may only be reasonable suspicion or probable cause in a criminal court.

 

Several examples might be: OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony (I wonder if they are dating :eek:) They were found not guilty in a crimianl court, OJ was convicted in civil court (but has most of his assets untouchable) but both are widely dispised as guilty by the public.

 

John

 

PS

Using your mathematical model, people who refused to answer would be considered undecideds. Even with that adjustment the majority of the responses still find Costa guilty and over 90% find the Captain guilty.

[IRL_Joanie]

Fuel removal suspended due to incoming bad weather. Though from the web cam the recovery (I have to be realistic, sadly) teams are still at the aft/stern of the ship.

 

http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440922/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto.html

 

and

 

http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

Salvage workers have also postponed attempts to extract fuel from the wreck, which is lying on its side. Efforts to pump around half a million gallons from the liner were shelved when high seas partially dislodged a barge hitched to the hull to serve as a staging platform for removing fuel.

 

The Dutch salvage firm Smit had intended to start pumping fuel out on Saturday to prevent it from leaking and polluting the coastline. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/28/costa-concordia-divers-find-body?newsfeed=true

 

 

Joanie

[Feelin' Nauti']

Another woman found on the sixth deck. No additional information at this point.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/28/costa-concordia-divers-find-body?newsfeed=true

This is why I come to this thread to see if there are any updates.

Not about nasty posters or dixie line. :rolleyes:

 

:DJust noticed your Signature:

 

COSTA CONCORDIA - 5 hours Friday 13th January 2012

Could not help but laugh (AFTER I cleaned the coffee off of my monitor and keyboard):D

 

Love your sense of humor Michelle, absolutely LOVE IT!!

 

Totally hilarious!

[cruiserfanfromct]

Thanks blackshirtuk - lovely song!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon, were British astronomers / surveyors sent to America to survey the border between Pennslyvania and Maryland to settle a territorial dispute. The line did not extend farther east or west than the borders of Pennslyvania.

 

I believe the original line had nothing to do with dividing the Northern and Southern states into slave / no-slave states and was drawn 100 years before the Civil War.

 

Charlie and Jere - hope you are not reading CC - you'd both be turning in your graves! :eek:

 

Here are some of the lyrics:

 

A glass of wine with you sir and the ladies.

 

ll enjoy All Durham and Northumberland is measured up by my own hand

 

It was my fate from birth to make my mark upon the earth

 

 

He calls me Charlie Mason a stargazer am I

 

It seems that I was born to chart the evening sky

 

They'd cut me out for baking bread but I had other dreams instead

 

This baker's boy from the west country

 

would join the Royal Society...

 

Lyrics www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/mark_knopfler/

 

 

We are sailing to Philadelphia a world away form the coaly Tyne

 

Sailing to Philadelphia to draw the line

 

The Mason-Dixon Line

 

 

Now you're a good surveyor Dixon but I swear you'll make me mad

 

The West will kill us both you gullible Geordie lad

 

You talk of liberty how can America be free

 

A Geordie and a baker's boy in the forests of the Iroquois...

 

 

 

Now hold your head up Mason see America lies there

 

The morning tide has raised the capes of Delaware

 

Come up and feel the sun a new morning is begun

 

Another day will make it clear why your stars should guide us here...

 

We are sailing to Philadelphia...

 

 

Just to lighten the mood, one of my favourite songs from my favourite guitarist Mark Knopfler

 

All about the Mason Dixon line!

 

[patrioticgirl]

This is why I come to this thread to see if there are any updates.

Not about nasty posters or dixie line. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

The thread has indeed been very helpful for those of us who wish to keep abreast of the latest information about the status of the ship, the evacuation and recovery efforts, and the stories associated with all involved. Keeping on topic, without the added discussions or opinions, will ensure that it remains so, especially if civility is practiced.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Back to the Concordia and to the topic ;)

 

Did anyone get this ad from American Express to immerse yourself? Really?!! One would think they could have pulled the ad especially since it arrived over a week later!!

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/costa-concordia-cruises-american-express-offer-immerse-yourself/2012/01/25/gIQAnntJQQ_blog.html

[BalconyBumz]

Rita Klein

 

This morning, at Bridge 6 was discovered a woman's body. It is now confirmed, it's Ms. INGE SCHALL.

 

may Inge rest in peace

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/bettina.hatami#!/pages/Costa-Concordia-Tragedy-/253330351406535

[cruiserfanfromct]

On a lighter note - here's Letterman's take on the situation:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsYQK-VaHI&feature=fvst

[captainmcd]

The thread has indeed been very helpful for those of us who wish to keep abreast of the latest information about the status of the ship, the evacuation and recovery efforts, and the stories associated with all involved. Keeping on topic, without the added discussions or opinions, will ensure that it remains so, especially if civility is practiced.

 

I agree! This thread is the most active on the subject, and it is important for us to discuss and work through this tragedy that has profound impact on the cruise industry, and has for me been a real black eye on my profession. There is no need to ever personally attack anyone on any post. We can disagree but be civil and try to understand other views.

[SomeBeach]

Rita Klein

 

 

This morning, at Bridge 6 was discovered a woman's body. It is now confirmed, it's Ms. INGE SCHALL.

 

may Inge rest in peace

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/bettina.hatami#!/pages/Costa-Concordia-Tragedy-/253330351406535

 

Ms Schall is from Germany and was found earlier this past week.

The person found today is believed to be the missing crew member from Peru.

That is what I got from reading La Repubblica.

[HelloHelloHola]

Ms Schall is from Germany and was found earlier this past week.

The person found today is believed to be the missing crew member from Peru.

That is what I got from reading La Repubblica.

 

I also read it from La Repubblica. The article said the victim is a woman, a crew member and was not wearing a life jacket. Since only one crew member has not been accounted for, it was thought this victim would be the missing Peruvian crew member. This is what I got out out the article with a translator.

[SomeBeach]

Coming up at noon ET CNN is doing a segment on the legal action taking place about Concordia.

Not sure that it will be lead story as another story is mentioned to be talked about too.

 

CNN saying the story will be at 12:20 ET.

Now they are saying it's the next story. Wish they'd makeup their minds.

[Cuizer2]

"Thrown out" is not a term of art, so what do you mean?

 

Lack of subject-matter jurisdiction: think again.

 

Lack of in personam jurisdiction: maybe, but not likely.

 

Failure to state a claim for relief: gimme a break.

 

Geez, everybody is a lawyer....

 

Everybody is an expert on all things. The less they actually know the more they think they know.

[Cuizer2]

Back to the Concordia and to the topic ;)

 

Did anyone get this ad from American Express to immerse yourself? Really?!! One would think they could have pulled the ad especially since it arrived over a week later!!

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/costa-concordia-cruises-american-express-offer-immerse-yourself/2012/01/25/gIQAnntJQQ_blog.html

 

As noted ...

 

I called American Express and a representative explained that it takes between six and eight weeks from when a brochure is put into creative to when it reaches mailboxes, making it too late to pull the mailing. “Obviously that offer is not valid,” she said.

[blackshirtuk]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon, were British astronomers / surveyors sent to America to survey the border between Pennslyvania and Maryland to settle a territorial dispute. The line did not extend farther east or west than the borders of Pennslyvania.

 

I believe the original line had nothing to do with dividing the Northern and Southern states into slave / no-slave states and was drawn 100 years before the Civil War.

 

No need for correction spot on!

[IRL_Joanie]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon, were British astronomers / surveyors sent to America to survey the border between Pennslyvania and Maryland to settle a territorial dispute. The line did not extend farther east or west than the borders of Pennslyvania.

 

I believe the original line had nothing to do with dividing the Northern and Southern states into slave / no-slave states and was drawn 100 years before the Civil War.

 

No need for correction spot on!

 

 

See, my point exactly!! If I, as a US citizen, born and educated here, did not even realize/know the true history of the Mason Dixon Line, how can we expect someone from another country to do so??

 

Thank you to all who have corrected me and my lack of historical knowledge.... And I thought I was a history buff.... NOT anymore, as proven by my fellow Cruise Critic family!!:)

 

Joanie

[Charles4515]

As noted ...

 

As you noted it is explained in the blog. I got that brochure and it was not sent first class, the class of mail by which it was sent has a low priority. It can take a while after being dropped at the post office to get delivered.

[Milaandra]

The amount of proof to convict someone in the Court of Public Opinion may only be reasonable suspicion or probable cause in a criminal court.

 

I'm fine with saying that of those who responded, the majority feel he is guilty. That's accurate, IMO. Even if you had offered a "waiting to see" category, I think you'd still get a majority saying "guilty".

 

It is interesting that public opinion requires so much less proof. It makes the media very powerful, doesn't it?

[Feelin' Nauti']

Wonder how many are going to accept the $14,460?

Like to know how they came up with that figure.

They couldn't round it to say $15,000?

 

Trauma distress, cost of the cruise, travel expenses, lost documentation, plus all of the personal property that was lost (clothes, jewelry, electronics, suitcases, toilette's, etc.) can add up QUITE fast, and in my opinion, can be much greater than $14,460… I don't know If I would settle for that.

To me it's chump change for the huge cruise line industry.

Sounds like they're gonna have to up that amount if they're trying to avoid lawsuits!

I am not a fan of class-action lawsuits, but I think Costa needs anti up the amount.

[H82seaUgo]

Wonder how many are going to accept the $14' date='460?

Like to know how they came up with that figure.

They couldn't round it to say $15,000?

 

Trauma distress, cost of the cruise, travel expenses, lost documentation, plus all of the personal property that was lost (clothes, jewelry, electronics, suitcases, toilette's, etc.) can add up QUITE fast, and in my opinion, can be much greater than $14,460… I don't know If I would settle for that.

To me it's chump change for the huge cruise line industry.

Sounds like they're gonna have to up that amount if they're trying to avoid lawsuits!

I am not a fan of class-action lawsuits, but I think Costa needs anti up the amount.[/quote']

 

i must say, if the extent of my grief was donning a lifejacket, getting into a lifeboat, and getting onto that island, i would gladly accept that offer.

[Boy Blue]

i must say, if the extent of my grief was donning a lifejacket, getting into a lifeboat, and getting onto that island, i would gladly accept that offer.

 

 

Me too

[cruiserfanfromct]

IIRC - the original discussion was less focused on history and had more to do about stereotyping people according to certain US geograhical locations. Some of us came forward to correct the misconception in a civilized manner and some chose to spar in an ugly way. Anyhow I think the matter has been cleared up and we can move on. G'day, mate! :)

 

See, my point exactly!! If I, as a US citizen, born and educated here, did not even realize/know the true history of the Mason Dixon Line, how can we expect someone from another country to do so??

 

Thank you to all who have corrected me and my lack of historical knowledge.... And I thought I was a history buff.... NOT anymore, as proven by my fellow Cruise Critic family!!:)

 

Joanie

[sylmack]

Wonder how many are going to accept the $14' date='460?

Like to know how they came up with that figure.

They couldn't round it to say $15,000?

 

[/quote']

 

The actual amount offered was in Euros, so the $14,460 is a result of the conversion.

[Feelin' Nauti']

The actual amount offered was in Euros, so the $14,460 is a result of the conversion.

Thanks for clarifying.