Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Tranquil Waters]

What an ASSUMPTION ! ! :eek:

 

 

Nope. It is known as critical analysis of what you are reading. I was taught that lesson while still in school in relation to "research" articles.

 

You have to know who is doing the study/ story and what objective data they are using, how the data is being interpreted, and what biases the author comes with that may be affecting objectivity.

 

BTW, exactly what did I assume? It is fact that CCL is a major advertiser. And otherwise I only stated that one needs to look for any agendas in reported articles. Not an assumption anywhere!

Edited February 27, 2012 by Tranquil Waters

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Its not exactly hard to make that 'assumption' is it !!!

 

Both the sites are heavily subsidised by the advertisements from the Cruise lines, you even get emails from them about future cruises. The last one I got was for 'Saga'

 

Nope think that Tranquil waters is spot on !!!

 

rgds

:)

[glrounds]

Interesting article refering to Concordia disaster as "media massacre".

 

http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/feature/Costa-Media-Massacre-in-Europe-120227.cfm#axzz1nahvf4rj

 

Very good article. Those speculators and dooms-dayers talking about bankruptcy and prison sentences for corporate executives should read the Athens Convention, the Death on High Seas Act, and look into the insurance protection COSTA has for all their other costs. A 35% downturn in bookings is going to be a tough road to recover from, however.

 

In earlier posts on the closed thread, some 5 weeks ago, many insurance authorities were commenting that the major hit to COSTA is the lack of insurance for "loss of business" or "business interruption" costs which the CONCORDIA is causing by not being able to sail and generate revenue. Because it is such a hassle to prove and document all these costs many companies don't insurance against this and usually absorb this loss themselves. According to these insurance people COSTA/CCL has excellent insurance for the other costs associated with this tragedy.

 

Edited February 27, 2012 by glrounds

[Dmetrius]

I just read than another Costa ship.....the Allegra.....had a small fire aboard and has lost power and is adrift off Seychelles. The fire is out but the engines aren't running.....some cargo ships are responding. This looks like an older, smaller ship with only 600+ passengers and 400+ crew. Hopefully they'll get the engines running. It doesn't sound like there was much damage but this is the last thing Costa needs right now.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/27/costa-allegra-on-fire-off_n_1303972.html?ref=travel&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl15%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D138792

Oh wonderful! All we need now is the Somali Pirates to get involved and here we go again!

[Hebersgyll]

No I would meansure the distance/time period from dropping off the pilot it will then give the average speed.........No one will be wrong then......

 

The information stating a 'decrease' in speed has not been confirmed (No offence Uniall) and therefore cannot be counted nor discounted and hence take my suggestion of the average speed between leaving port to the time of contact.....

 

Its called covering ones back lol.....

 

regards

:):)

 

 

Presumably, the 'best evidence for the actual speed of Concordia at different timepoints will be contained in the ship's black box data. Do satellite plots 'average out' some of the more precise details the black box evidence should contain?

 

If, as reported, the prosecutors are alleging he slowed down & then speeded upto 16 knots, I am inclined to doubt they would base this allegation on gossip & tittle tattle. I tend to believe they would only allege this if they beliive their evidence is strong enough to stand up in court?

[Tranquil Waters]

Very good article. Those speculators and dooms-dayers talking about bankruptcy and prison sentences for corporate executives should read the Athens Convention, the Death on High Seas Act, and look into the insurance protection COSTA has for all their other costs. A 35% downturn in bookings is going to be a tough road to recover from, however.

 

In earlier posts on the closed thread, some 5 weeks ago, many insurance authorities were commenting that the major hit to COSTA is the lack of insurance for "loss of business" or "business interruption" costs which the CONCORDIA is causing by not being able to sail and generate revenue. Because it is such a hassle to prove and document all these costs many companies don't insurance against this and usually absorb this loss themselves. According to these insurance people COSTA/CCL has excellent insurance for the other costs associated with this tragedy.

 

 

That's assuming that the insurance remains in effect when gross negligence is an issue.....:D

[glrounds]

Oh wonderful! All we need now is the Somali Pirates to get involved and here we go again!

 

You can bet every "slip and fall", missed port, and late arrival will be scrutinized to the nth degree by the salivating media.

 

The CARNIVAL cruise passengers robbed at gunpoint while on an excursion in Mexico is just now being hashed over on FOX. Apparently the 2-3 murders per night on the streets of LA isn't their concern.

 

[Tranquil Waters]

You can bet every "slip and fall", missed port, and late arrival will be scrutinized to the nth degree by the salivating media.

 

The CARNIVAL cruise passengers robbed at gunpoint while on an excursion in Mexico is just now being hashed over on FOX. Apparently the 2-3 murders per night on the streets of LA isn't their concern.

 

 

Rest assured if 22 people get robbed at gunpoint at one time in one place in LA it will be on the news as well. :p

[Hebersgyll]

I stand corrected. But the parent company still knew about salutes close to shore and about captains having female guests on board who, along with others, provided a distraction to the captain on the bridge at the time of the tragedy.......

 

 

Well,I just watched 'the more recent and detailed plot' and where is the argument? It shows the ship running towards the island at 15.3, 15.4, 15.5 knots but the speed increasing to 15.9 / 16.0 knots just before impact.

 

So, was 15.3/15.4 slower than the Costa ships normally travel for the same distance out from departure,... or not? .... and why increase speed just approaching a rocky shoreline and going into a turn which will swing the back section of the ship further round to shore?

 

He can't having been trying to create a 'bow wave' as well as a 'bow' can he?

[Tranquil Waters]

Well,I just watched 'the more recent and detailed plot' and where is the argument? It shows the ship running towards the island at 15.3, 15.4, 15.5 knots but the speed increasing to 15.9 / 16.0 knots just before impact.

 

So, was 15.3/15.4 slower than the Costa ships normally travel for the same distance out from departure,... or not? .... and why increase speed just approaching a rocky shoreline and going into a turn which will swing the back section of the ship further round to shore?

 

He can't having been trying to create a 'bow wave' as well as a 'bow' can he?

 

I agree. I was just trying to be polite and not argumentative. ;):D

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Presumably, the 'best evidence for the actual speed of Concordia at different timepoints will be contained in the ship's black box data. Do satellite plots 'average out' some of the more precise details the black box evidence should contain?

 

If, as reported, the prosecutors are alleging he slowed down & then speeded upto 16 knots, I am inclined to doubt they would base this allegation on gossip & tittle tattle. I tend to believe they would only allege this if they beliive their evidence is strong enough to stand up in court?

Yes the black box holds the true information, that is if its working properly and not as 'reported' to be defective. It was indicated that one of the two boxes was defective until the full information is disclosed I will bide my time.

 

Once again, its 'as reported' and another possible leak !! As I indicated the best method of estimating the speed over the ground is to distance / time method. Its only a matter of days before the legal action starts in Italy

 

rgds:)

[glrounds]

Rest assured if 22 people get robbed at gunpoint at one time in one place in LA it will be on the news as well. :p

 

I guess you think 22 people being robbed carries more significance than 2-3 murders ! ! :eek:

 

Its only significance is it happened on a CARNIVAL CRUISE excursion. If it happened in LA, it would be ho-hum, just like the 2-3 murders are.

 

[fathercop]

Nope. It is known as critical analysis of what you are reading. I was taught that lesson while still in school in relation to "research" articles.

 

You have to know who is doing the study/ story and what objective data they are using, how the data is being interpreted, and what biases the author comes with that may be affecting objectivity.

 

BTW, exactly what did I assume? It is fact that CCL is a major advertiser. And otherwise I only stated that one needs to look for any agendas in reported articles. Not an assumption anywhere!

 

I'm curious Tranquil Waters, in your critical analysis, did you have the information you said is needed for your post to be accurate? Also, was if first hand information, or taken from someone else? Additionally, is the information verifiable? If you could post that information, I think it would be helpful. I would love to see it posted because that sure would put egg on someone's face.

[Tranquil Waters]

I guess you think 22 people being robbed carries more significance than 2-3 murders ! ! :eek:

 

Its only significance is it happened on a CARNIVAL CRUISE excursion. If it happened in LA, it would be ho-hum, just like the 2-3 murders are.

 

 

Please! No one said that murder was less significant:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: But the fact is that one or two murders happen on any given night in any major city around the world. Hence they cannot report on all. You do understand this concept right? But 22 robberies on a cruise tour does garner attention in its unusual nature and so therefore does get reported.

[Tranquil Waters]

I'm curious Tranquil Waters, in your critical analysis, did you have the information you said is needed for your post to be accurate? Also, was if first hand information, or taken from someone else? Additionally, is the information verifiable? If you could post that information, I think it would be helpful. I would love to see it posted because that sure would put egg on someone's face.

 

Ash, you miss the point of my post. My post is just that - on a cruise board. Any critically thinking person would figure out the significance of that. And would not expect expert, researched info. And would read all social network posts with that knowledge in mind.

 

The Cruise Mates article needs the same evaluation. It is given as a news story and I only pointed out that one has to consider the source. Who funds the site? Are there possible :rolleyes: biases I the info? Not a difficult concept in any situation - the need to keep motivation in mind.....

Edited February 28, 2012 by Tranquil Waters

[TLCOhio]

Really sad story. Makes my wife have more worries about doing future cruises. On the Today Show this am, they had video shot from an airplane flying over the stricken ship. From the BBC within the past hour this morning, they have this headline: "Stricken Costa cruise ship off Seychelles changes route" with these highlights: "Costa Allegra is being towed to the main island in the Seychelles, rather than a nearer island, and is not now due to arrive until Thursday. Costa Cruises decided that the planned disembarkation on the smaller-but-nearer Desroches Island could not go ahead. It said the facilities on the island were inadequate to cope with the arrival of so many people."

 

On this ship's location, the accident happened near Alphonse Island (marked at the bottom of the "A" on the Google map), some 200 nautical miles SW from the main islands of this Indian Ocean archipelago. Not a good or easy places for reaching or servicing.

 

Full story at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17186829

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 67,001 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

 

[glrounds]

I guess you think 22 people being robbed carries more significance than 2-3 murders ! ! :eek:

 

Its only significance is it happened on a CARNIVAL CRUISE excursion. If it happened in LA, it would be ho-hum, just like the 2-3 murders are.

 

 

Please! No one said that murder was less significant:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: But the fact is that one or two murders happen on any given night in any major city around the world. Hence they cannot report on all. You do understand this concept right? But 22 robberies on a cruise tour does garner attention in its unusual nature and so therefore does get reported.

 

Isn't this PRECISELY what I was saying ?

 

[glrounds]

I'm curious Tranquil Waters, in your critical analysis, did you have the information you said is needed for your post to be accurate? Also, was if first hand information, or taken from someone else? Additionally, is the information verifiable? If you could post that information, I think it would be helpful. I would love to see it posted because that sure would put egg on someone's face.

 

LOL . . . he/she has NO CRITICAL ANALYSIS . . . just venting on an opinion he/she may have, IMO. :rolleyes:

 

I personally think [opinion] its grossly unfair to criticize Cruise Critic's journalistic integrity over revenue they may or may not receive from CCL, Costa or travel agencies that advertise on their site based on how they may "spin" a story.

 

Its also "ill-advised" if one wants to continue using THEIR site.:D

 

Edited February 28, 2012 by glrounds

[Ratt]

I personally think [opinion] its grossly unfair to criticize Cruise Critic's journalistic integrity over revenue they may or may not receive from CCL, Costa or travel agencies that advertise on their site based on how they may "spin" a story. [/color][/size][/font][/i]

 

Not to mention that your going to have a hard time finding sites that don't take advertising money from companies that they could potentially report on.

 

It's funny to me that people think that any cruise line would pull strings to get threads removed because they didn't like the content. If this was true there would be a lot of threads disappearing every day from every area of CC since there are always threads and posts that are negative towards specific lines.

 

While there is a very active community of people that post and lurk here on the CC boards, they are a very small percentage of the cruising population and so the effect of having negative information remove would be minor if it even had an effect. On the other hand there are much larger media sites that also get advertising money from the cruise lines and they post negative articles and also have comment sections. I have read some of the comments and I can tell you that many of the comments are as negative or even more so than the comments made here on CC.

[glrounds]

Not to mention that your going to have a hard time finding sites that don't take advertising money from companies that they could potentially report on.

 

It's funny to me that people think that any cruise line would pull strings to get threads removed because they didn't like the content. If this was true there would be a lot of threads disappearing every day from every area of CC since there are always threads and posts that are negative towards specific lines.

 

While there is a very active community of people that post and lurk here on the CC boards, they are a very small percentage of the cruising population and so the effect of having negative information remove would be minor if it even had an effect. On the other hand there are much larger media sites that also get advertising money from the cruise lines and they post negative articles and also have comment sections. I have read some of the comments and I can tell you that many of the comments are as negative or even more so than the comments made here on CC.

 

Very good observations. :)

 

It was once estimated [i have no verifiable facts:rolleyes:] that roughly 2-3% of the cruising public has ever heard of Cruise Critic (sorry, Laura) :D

 

I think also that with a thread like this one and others about this tragedy, that a lot of posters are coming "late to the show", so-to-speak, with old information. E.G., there was a great color video made by a helicopter circling the CONCORDIA. This was posted as a "new" video of the ship. It was a very good video, very clear, very close to the CONCORDIA, but it was easily detected as old, as the retractable glass/steel roof over the central pool was STILL IN PLACE. Several of the sections of this retractable roof had slipped from their tracks some 2-3 weeks before (they're held in place on their tracks by gravity and the angle of list was just too much. I've seen them operate on the CARNIVAL SPLENDOR).

 

The same would hold true of the "maritime authorities" stating their opinion on the Discovery and NGC shows. Its treated as the FINAL WORD by many of the newer posters, when several maritime authorities on previous threads (one was closed when it reached 5000 threads and another over in-fighting amongst the posters, I think) have stated the possibility of contradicting information. These opinions were posted many weeks ago, right after the incident, looking at the same AIS readout.

 

Sorry, but this is what is frustrating about the "quick to judge" people making spot judgement on their own deeply held suspicions and passing them on as FACT. As AuDirt says, several posts back, the black box will eventually clear up a lot of these discussions.

 

Many of the original posters that truly wanted to find verifiable information with sources and post this information for ALL TO DISCUSS,(several ship captains and maritime experts) have long since left these threads and topic alone. :(

 

 

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Many of the original posters that truly wanted to find verifiable information with sources and post this information for ALL TO DISCUSS,(several ship captains and maritime experts) have long since left these threads and topic alone. :(

The reason these left was because of the 'deleting of posts' by the moderators. The whole concept of a forum is for discussion and even though people dont agree they should let it continue.

 

The experts were putting their views over, some of these view did not meet the 'criteria' of CC and hence the post was removed.

 

CC along with other sites is run through the funding of the cruise lines and the bottom line is the 'buck pays here'

 

rgds

:)

[sidari]

Fuel removal going well.... :)

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/News/News-Headlines/Concordia-s-forward-fuel-tanks-emptied-aft-tanks-now-being-pumped.html

[IndyDenise]

I personally think [opinion] its grossly unfair to criticize Cruise Critic's journalistic integrity over revenue they may or may not receive from CCL, Costa or travel agencies that advertise on their site based on how they may "spin" a story.

 

-------------------------

 

THis is NOT journalistic intergrity,,it has NOTHING to do with that.

 

It would be considered more like censorship..though, this is CC's boards and they are allowed to run them as they see fit.

 

However, often I do see qoutes from posters here in the meda..such as Cruise Critic's poster ABC123 wrote xyz..so obviously the media reads these boards too..and gets information or opinions here.

[judyzoo]

Fuel removal going well.... :)

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/News/News-Headlines/Concordia-s-forward-fuel-tanks-emptied-aft-tanks-now-being-pumped.html

 

Great news!

[GranysT]

The last news I personally heard about recovering people, was the 8 they had found, including the little girl (finally). They were able to remove 4 of them, but weather did not permit them to retrive the other 4. Were they ever able to go back and remove the other 4?