Celebrity's target clientele

[alpal1993]

Hey Allen The Southward was my first cruise too back in 1980.Don't remember what wwe paid or what room we were in,but we did Western out of Miami.

Any way this June will be my 15 cruise and 6 on Celebrity .DH and I don't make 75,000 yet.We live in a beautiful home which we bought pre construction 8 years ago and if we had to purchase now we couldn't afford.I shop sales and use coupons. We also save our change. My DH is a truck driver and I am a school Nurse,so we will never be rich.by any means.

Even with the new pricing I managed to get a great deal on our Century cruise to Scandinavia/Russia.My cruise,airfare and Russian tour are all paid for.

So my point being if you really want to cruise you can do it..

[WeBeCruisin']

Hey Allen The Southward was my first cruise too back in 1980.Don't remember what wwe paid or what room we were in,but we did Western out of Miami.

Any way this June will be my 15 cruise and 6 on Celebrity .DH and I don't make 75,000 yet.We live in a beautiful home which we bought pre construction 8 years ago and if we had to purchase now we couldn't afford.I shop sales and use coupons. We also save our change. My DH is a truck driver and I am a school Nurse,so we will never be rich.by any means.

Even with the new pricing I managed to get a great deal on our Century cruise to Scandinavia/Russia.My cruise,airfare and Russian tour are all paid for.

So my point being if you really want to cruise you can do it..

 

We probably wouldn't want to sail on the Southward today, if it were still around, but at the time it was a wonderful experience and our first cruise ever! It seems like the tables were just rectangular tables for six, and we were seated with four single women from Los Angeles who worked as clerks at Lucky's Grocery Stores or Supermarkets who did everything they could to make my new bride jealous, including sitting on my lap at dinner.:rolleyes: There was a lot of motion on the ship, and at that time, the Dominican Republic was about where Belize is today..... very third-world and undeveloped, but we were blown away by the experience.

 

It's all relative and a matter of priorities. Cruising can be done by almost anyone, if they're willing to sacrifice in some other areas. We've been in inside cabins, outside ones, and balconies, and actually seem to prefer the inside cabins. My wife has some sleep issue and sleeps like a log in the absolute darkness of an inside cabin. At night, we'll turn the bathroom light on, and then close the door. That way, there's just enough light to find your way to the bathroom in the middle of the night. We're both very active and are hardly ever in the room except to sleep and change clothes. And by taking an inside cabin, we can go on more cruises!

 

We did the Baltics/Russia cruise on the Constellation last summer. You'll love it!!!!!

 

Allen

[easternLIers]

Quickly reading through the posts I too had a problem with the 75,00. thing. I did realize though that they mean per person and not household income. Lets face it, unless you are a lawyer/doctor/executive etc. it takes 2 incomes to make ends meet today. That puts there income target at 150,000.+ which sounds about right. As hdawson said though, you can get get by and have a nice vacation for little money. As said before it comes down to expendible income. The area someone lives in and the salaries I think are relitive and people with much diferent incomes might have the similar expendible incomes. It also comes down to how people manage the money they have. Some people manage very well with alot less. I have been looking at Hawaii cruises for next year and have found that Celebrity is pretty much booked up with prices going through the roof. On the other hand RCCL hasn't even put itineraries out yet. Coincidence?? To me it seems that the powers that be are trying to create more distance between the two sister lines. When I saw 847 that hdawson paid, I first thought that was the bar bill... ;) ;)

[alpal1993]

I don't know why?,but I have only been on 1 Rccl cruise The Nordic Empress to Bermuda 9/2-9/9 2001.I have tried several times to book Caribbean on Rccl and my price quotes are always much higher then Celebrity.May be it has something to do with where we are located.RCCL has so many ships out of Port Everglades and Miami and Century doesn't,or I have a really great T/A that has an in with Celebrity.

[WeBeCruisin']

Quickly reading through the posts I too had a problem with the 75,00. thing. I did realize though that they mean per person and not household income.

 

I took it to be household income. In most parts of the country, $75,000 a year householdy income is quite a bit above average. The average salary in the U.S. is about $30,000 a year, and when you factor into that the fact that a large number of spouses don't work, work part-time, or work at a lesser salary than the major breadwinner, the "average" household income is about $40,000 to $45,000. If you take away the exorbitant incomes of athletes, entertainers, celebrities, and upper echelon business types, the median household income will probably drop about $5,000 to $10,000 a year.

 

Cruise affordability is also affected by the number of children at home, mortgage payments, dependent parents, college tuitions, etc. When my kids were growing up, I was a highschool English teacher and a cruise was out of the question. Almost any vacation was out of the question, unless it involved visiting relatives:) Since my three sons have left the nest, I'm probably averaging about a cruise a year.

 

If we want to cruise badly enough, 95% of us can take a cruise, if we plan and prioritize properly.

 

Allen

[Bruin Steve]

Following the thread since I first posted, it seems my point remains...

Money is relative.

 

Cruising is affordable for anyone with EXPENDABLE INCOME...

It's all just a question of how much expendable income you have that determines how often you cruise, what cruise or cabin category you choose, whether you have to look for bargains, etc.

 

Travel budget for most working people is a sacrifice...but to varying degrees...

We cruise because we love to cruise...but we do so within the restraints each of our budgets allow.

 

Some of us can afford multiple cruises each year and to travel in suites and balcony cabins...Others need to save up over time, going at longer intervals and searching for bargains or deals.

 

There is NO WAY to come up with a "target income". The $75,000 number they came up with sounds like an exact quantifyable target, but, as I think we can all agree, it's meaningless. The retiree couple with a paid off home somewhere and no kids to support with a $75,000 annual pension can afford to cruise a lot more than the young family with three kids in Southern California in an overpriced rental unit who also make $75,000. That retiree couple have expendable income, the family is in debt and struggling to get by.

 

Someone with no kids making $150,000 a year in Nebraska is living in the lap of luxury and can take off on a cruise whenever they want. The same people move to LA and want to buy a home and have to commute 30 miles each way on $3 gasoline will suddenly find that clearing that expendable budget to cruise will be very difficult (Hopefully, before making the move, they let their employer know they expect a substantial raise).

 

Okay, let's talk about cruise prices...over time and from one line to the next.

When I was a kid, cruising was for the wealthy only. I remember my millionaire uncle going on a cruise back in the early 60s and they invited us all down to the pier for a bon voyage party in his suite. I was impressed. My family couldn't go on trips like this. We went camping in Yosemite or down to San Diego to stay in a motel and visit the zoo.

 

When I took my first cruise (March 1989) on the Big Red Boat, the package (3 night cruise, four nights in the Hojos at Disney, passes to Disneyworld/Epcot and air from LAX) for the four of us in a QUAD cabin was around $3400. By the time we were done with tips, bar bill, meals in Orlando, etc., we probably paid around $5000...

 

Is that competitive with today? Probably, at least to price alone...BUT, then I think back to 1989...My income was about 25% of what it is today...I was living in a house that we paid $130,000 for brand new (And those houses are now on the market for almost $600,000)...Based on that, the $5000 we spent then is really like spending $20,000 today...

 

So, the answer is that AFFORDABILITY is WAY up...

 

Are there minor fluctuations? Yes, there are...from time to time and from ship to ship...You can pay higher or lower for the same cruise depending on when you book...The laws of supply and demand take effect...You can pay more for Carnival than for Celebrity for a similar cruise depending on the fluctuations...

 

If you think Celebrity has raised prices and you can't cruise with them, try another date or consider moving to a lesser cabin category...Or consider whether your income has ALSO gone up...or the price of gas...or of bread...

[hdawson]

Apal. Not sure what RCI ship you've been pricing but, the Voyager class ships have always sold at a premium. For some, bigger is better and even worth the extra cost. Also the Radiance class sells at a premium; they are stunning ships. Personally, I won't be sailing on something as big as the Voyager class again. I fear Celebrity is near announcing a new class of ships in the 120,000 grt range. That to me is not a Celebrity size.

[SkiCruiser44]

Is that the house that overlooks Fieldstone Farms off of Hillsboro Rd? It looks like a beauty bet they have fabulous views too boot. We can see it from our backyard.

This has been an interesting thread - I started cruising in 1974 and I can remember a week-end cruise in an inside cabin being $500/pp. The prices have steadily increased since 2002 but that is to be expected. We like the Celebrity experience it meets our needs for a vacation. We sailed on Radisson last year and I was not impressed - I like a larger ship and more things to do it was too sedate for me. I also encountered more pretentious people which I prefer to avoid especially when on vacation. I do think the income figure is all relative and am surprised that they would even give an income number.

 

Kathy

[WeBeCruisin']

. We sailed on Radisson last year and I was not impressed - I like a larger ship and more things to do it was too sedate for me. I also encountered more pretentious people which I prefer to avoid especially when on vacation. Kathy

 

Kathy, we had the same experience on the SeaDream I (formerly Seabourn's Sea Goddess). There were virtually no activities, and most nights I was the only one still up at 10:00 p.m. There were only 52 of us onboard and the small ship (4,000 tons) really reflected any kind of motion. The only entertainment at night was a husband and wife and a keyboard with some taped backgrounds and rhythms. They pretty much played the same songs every night, and the casino consisted of two blackjack tables and five slot machines. There was also a tiny piano bar which could hold maybe eight people on stools around a piano. The food and service were great, and there was unlimited complimentary caviar and top-grade liquor, but it was boring sitting around listening to geriatrics try to one-up each other with how important they had been before they retired. And I'm far from a kid... I have a son who will soon turn 41 and two other sons in their 30s. :eek:

 

Allen

[SkiCruiser44]

You pretty much described our experience except the ship was a bit bigger so there were a few more areas to wander around. We just found the people to be pretty strange and only connected with one other couple - we laughed at some of the interactions of people - too funny. I'm only in my 40's so I was a bit younger than most but it was a group of people who thought a lot about who they were and what they did. We had dinner with one couple and I can handle just about anyone but they talked non-stop about how successful they were - after 5 minutes I was ready to scream - it's the only time I've ever passed on dessert on a cruise. The ship (Navigator) also had the worst vibration I've ever felt on a ship - it drove me nuts. Nope I'll stick with the mass-market lines and leave Radisson to those that enjoy that kind of cruise experience.

 

Kathy

[easternLIers]

Allen ( WeBeCruisin' ), Today things are different and I believe the cruise lines know that. I believe Celebrity is targeting the double income group of today. A well educated person making 75,000. a year married with children, mortgage/car payment/insurance etc may be doing fine, but I still think its the double income group they are targeting. If you're( A couple ) retired, no kids/no morgage/no child support/no worries.....then I would consider 75,000. being adequate today. I'm sure its per..............although I've been wwwwwrrrrrong before. :eek:

[Gabbiegirl]

And some of us who do book the "suite" categories, do shop for prices and when an Owner's Suite on Radiance Class RCCL goes for $1000.00 less per person than a Royal Suite on "X", there really isn't any debate. A Grand Suite for $800.00 per person less than a Celebrity Suite-which doesn't even have a balcony. And I sailed before 9/11 on Celebrity so it's not just catching up with pre 9/11 prices. We nearly always cruise in EARLY December, some of the least expensive cruises of the year and when the difference is that much on the same itinerary we're going for RCCL, it has little to do with how much we make, much more to do with what you get for your money. We've been in both Royal and Celebrity suites on X and Grand and Owner's on RCCL, the difference is NOT worth the $$, in fact the Grand Suite with the balcony is a better deal all the way around. Now I know some won't agree and some will say if you can cruise in a suite it doesn't matter, but we cruise once a year and we make it as special as we can, why waste literally $1000's to cruise on X. After our last Summit cruise it was clear that the difference in the level of quality and service from RCCL's Radiance class was not nearly enough to justify the cost difference. Sorry if you don't agree, JMHO.

[mari10]

Hi Kathy,

 

The house that you mentioned in your post is big, but I think it's more like 10,000 sq ft.

The house above fieldstone farms (my parents live in Windsor Park)

ia being built by The owner of Tennessee Valley Homes. He is one of the Frank brothers. He is building the house for his wife. The house that I mentioned can been seen on Franklin Road at Concord. The house has over 150 windows, and the pool overlooks a dramatic cliff. I would venture to say that the price tag is well over $5mil. The 4 new houses down the road in Princeton Hills sold for over $3 mil, and they are much smaller.

When we moved here from Norther California, I thought housing would be reasonable. Wrong! But we love Brentwood, and hope to stay here for a long time.

Why Celebrity picked $75,000 as annual income, I have no idea. As many stated it really is meaningless. Maybe someone in marketing picked that number out of a hat!

Mari

[easternLIers]

Gabbiegirl, what the heck are you talking about......no-one is compareing here....read the original post. Come back after that.

[SkiCruiser44]

I haven't noticed that house - will have to check it out next time. Wasn't sure how big the one was above us but I remember reading about it. My Dad and son walked up to the top of that hill in 2003 as they were clearing the road.

We live in Fieldstone - in The Parks. We moved here from the Denver market and things were pretty quite a bit less - TN hasn't taken quite the jump that a lot of places have. We've been here 7 years and love the Franklin area - it's probably one of the prettiest areas I've lived. This week-end is the Downtown Festival - always lots of fun. I see that you are a travel consultant do you work with an agency here in town?? I worked for 6 months with an agency here (when I was retired) and found I couldn't sella fur coat to a freezing eskimo. I had a hard time booking people on trips I wouldn't take myself.

 

Kathy

[alpal1993]

Apal. Not sure what RCI ship you've been pricing but, the Voyager class ships have always sold at a premium. For some, bigger is better and even worth the extra cost. Also the Radiance class sells at a premium; they are stunning ships. Personally, I won't be sailing on something as big as the Voyager class again. I fear Celebrity is near announcing a new class of ships in the 120,000 grt range. That to me is not a Celebrity size.

I am not sure which ships(bad memory) but I think one was the Voyager class I had inquired about an inside atrium room and was quoted 1400 pp for the seven day cruise.Chose to go on Century 9 day and now we are going to Scandinavia/Russia for the same price with 100 on board credit.So I think we did pretty good.

Ann

[jodyrick]

Hey - I just noticed you all are from Riverhead! How cool - I lived there from 1991 through 2000 on Ostrander. Prior to that I lived in Speonk. Now living in New Orleans and loving it here! Just saying Hello.

 

Rick

 

Quickly reading through the posts I too had a problem with the 75,00. thing. I did realize though that they mean per person and not household income. Lets face it, unless you are a lawyer/doctor/executive etc. it takes 2 incomes to make ends meet today. That puts there income target at 150,000.+ which sounds about right. As hdawson said though, you can get get by and have a nice vacation for little money. As said before it comes down to expendible income. The area someone lives in and the salaries I think are relitive and people with much diferent incomes might have the similar expendible incomes. It also comes down to how people manage the money they have. Some people manage very well with alot less. I have been looking at Hawaii cruises for next year and have found that Celebrity is pretty much booked up with prices going through the roof. On the other hand RCCL hasn't even put itineraries out yet. Coincidence?? To me it seems that the powers that be are trying to create more distance between the two sister lines. When I saw 847 that hdawson paid, I first thought that was the bar bill... ;) ;)

[Sky Sweet]

In this day and age, it is not uncommon for someone who was a college drop out to earn more than a professional with multiple advanced degrees. You also can't tell how much a person earns by the way they live because many people live above their means, while others who appear to live modestly are very wealthy. With that in mind, it is almost impossible to determine how much money a typical Celebrity Cruiser earns. Therefore, Celebrity should focus on the type of cruiser they want to attract and tailor their product accordingly. Until recently it seemed that Celebrity was trying to appeal to low keyed people who enjoy intellectually stimulating activities, but lately I fear they are trying to be all things to all people, and that strategy is rarely successful.

[C 2 C]

If Celebrity targets $75K plus, they missed and hit me instead.... live on a pension in Canada and still manage to cruise more than 5 times a year...

 

I think I see the same shows, eat the same food and visit the same ports but don't spend much more than a $120 per day...

 

what's a suite?? :rolleyes:

[Bruin Steve]

So I do know he is an attorney and also very liberal democratic. That's why I was so surprised about his comment about not knowing anyone who makes under $75,ooo a year. What about the file clerk in your company?

What about the people in your mail room?

What about the person who parks your car?

DON"T YOU SEE THESE PEOPLE???

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough...or maybe the writing style was lost on some folks...The comment was intended to be "facetious"...

Of course I know people who make under $75,000 a year...or at least know of them...Most of them who make below that number and live in SoCal aren't cruising...

But, the reason for the little sarcastic joke was that I was trying to say - more figuratively than literally - that salaries are RELATIVE...

$75,000 a year in Los Angeles doesn't allow you much expendable cash with which to cruise while $75,000 a year in some places is a comfortable salary...

 

Sure, the guy who parks my car or works the checkout line at Walmart undoubtedly makes less than $75,000...But in Los Angeles, especially the Western parts of Los Angeles, that guy has to have a spouse who's also working...or if he's younger, he's sharing an apartment with a roommate...He certainly doesn't have the expendable cash with which to cruise...

 

$75,000 in LA does not buy you what it does in, say, Kearney, Nebraska (my wife's home town)...The ONLY people around here less than that mark are either two-income families, retirees who have other funds stored up...or they're not among those who can even think of cruises...

 

I was trying to say that using that number as a cut-off as to where they were aiming their marketing, as if it's a divider between the wealthy cruiser and the rabble they'd rather leave to some other cruise line...well, that seemed somewhat funny...

 

THAT was really the point I was trying to make...

I wasn't trying to sound insensitive.

Sorry if I offended anyone or appeared flippant.

[cruising with marti]

Steve

 

The more you try and explain your self, the deeper the hole, at least thats the way it is coming across to me.

 

I undertand what you are tring to say, but the fact is you are offending a lot of folks.

 

 

Phil

[easternLIers]

Hi jodyrick, I've lived here almost all my life. Grew up on a farm in Aquebogue. I just noticed your from N.O., I'll be down there end of June. I will be bowling in the national tournament in Baton Rouge. My wife & I decided to make a mini vacation and spend some time in N.O.. Any must sees??

[babylene]

There are so many variables...there are cruisers with huge disposible incomes who will choose only the very upscale lines. There are others who could very comfortably choose those lines, but prefer Celebrity (if they are conservative), Royal Carib (if they want more action) Princess or Ncl (if they like open seating). Or...even Carnival...true...I know some who enjoyed that line very much. Believe it or not, I have heard many good reports. They may select suites if they want to be extravagant, or balconies or windows or even insides.(Yes, there are wealthy pax in the inside cabins!

 

On the other hand, there are many pax with moderate or low disposible incomes who manage very well to enjoy cruising...on all of the mainstream lines. They may cruise less often, they may cruise off season, they may cruise from a port to which they are able to drive,etc.etc. They may choose inside, outside, balconies (there are deals to be found). Also, from what I have read on CC, there are some who "cruise now and pay later".

 

The bottom line is that on a ship of approximately 2000 pax, there is room for all pockets.

 

Perhaps the target would be better aimed at catering to the interests of a "niche"...because here again, people from all walks of life can share common interests. One example is to have an excellent bridge instructor. We have been lucky to experience this on a couple of our cruises and it provided much enjoyment to many different people.

[mari10]

Since I started this thread, I guess I should explain the topic. As a travel consultant, Celebrity sent me their targeted clientele parameters. I just thought it would be interesting to see what others thought about Celebrity's target group. I simply asked if you agree?

Sorry if this got out of hand.

 

Mari

[tlmlb]

You have to remember that X is trying to be different and attract a certain socio-economic demographic that will enable them to be most profitable. Face it, luxury items, such as cruising, compete based upon the subjective experience and perceived value and not on price. Commodities compete on price.

 

Competing on price has caused the cruise industry much harm. A lot of the complaints about the cruise industry can be traced to the fact that lines have been homogenized, corners have been cut and that competition is on price alone.

 

I'd like to go back to the days when cruise lines were distinct and the experience was special. I'll bet more of Celebrity's target demographic feel the same way and we'll pay for it. In the meantime, we will carry those passengers who don't fit the demographic until demand allows them to be replaced.

 

Celebrity define your market, go after it and fine tune your direction as you go replacing less profitable customers with more profitable ones. It is a step in the right direction back to where cruising was memorable.

 

Some might say the argument is elitist, but it is pure economics. I applaud X's attempt at returning cruising to its experential elegance.