Just One Thing To Say

[MollyBrown]

Princess is destroying Cunard. Cunard's people believe this, and it is obvious. Plus they have fired some wonderful Captains, in particular Captain McNaught. Shame on them. I hope they do not get away with what is viewed by some as deliberate destructiveness. May the good somehow triumph and rescue Cunard and all that she represents.

[mncyclist]

I frankly don't understand the bitterness expressed here, which seems to cause so much unneeded unhappiness. My wife and I just came back from a wonderful QM2 crossing and I feel that Cunard has a unique feeling and will continue to draw support.

 

None of us know for sure the reasons behind what appears to be a re-assignment of popular Cunard captains, so I think that uninformed, bitter or negative speculation is not helpful, especially for those who are just beginning to learn about and enjoy the pleasures of transatlantic crossings and Cunard style. We should keep in mind that Cunard needs to be run as a business and they do not operate the classic QE2 or the amazing QM2 just to keep ocean liner enthusiasts happy. These ships need to make money and if Carnival and Princess can share some of their expertise that keeps Cunard in the transatlantic business, then all the better. Carnival or Princess would be foolish to "destroy" Cunard, especially given the huge investment made in QM2. This would include Cunard's "Britishness", which is clearly a key aspect of its appeal. Instead, we should thank Carnival for financing the construction of a masterpiece and Princess for apparently restoring discipline to the service standards onboard QM2.

 

We should remember that Cunard's bills are paid by the majority of customers who are first timers on most Cunard voyages (except World Cruises of course). Cunard will only be able to maintain cherished traditions if these customers are sufficiently satisfied to wish to return for a future journey or tell their friends to try Cunard. Therefore, if we truly have Cunard's interests at heart, we should channel our criticisms as constructive feedback to Cunard as I truly believe they are listening and constantly adjusting in response to customer comments.

 

We should also remember that QE2 was roundly dismissed by some when launched in 1969 as shockingly modern and with compromises made for cruising. Ironic that now she is considered the "traditional" ocean liner when most of the classic look and feel has actually been added over the years to "correct" her original "groovy" 1960s decor. QM2 is just as much an ocean liner for our time as the original Queen Mary and I predict that 20-30 years from now will be widely regarded as a classic.

 

Charles

[fastship]

I agree with you Mncyclist regarding the QE2, as there were many old guard Cunarders who said she would never be a proper Queen but,.......

 

Part of what makes Cunard British, and probably the only thing left on board both ships that is British, are her captains. Captains with long ties to this great line. First time passengers as well as past guests expect British officers and captains with experience having worked their way up with the great Cunard Line.

I congratulate Carnival for having built QM2 and maintained and improved QE2. However it is clear Cunard no longer exists except as a marketing brand.

Mickey Arrison has allowed Peter Ratcliffe to do whatever he wishes to Cunard. One has the feeling Mr. Ratcliffe has no love for Cunard nor the traditions Cunard stands for.

Demoting these loyal Cunard officers has nothing to do with profitability and is an absolute disgrace.

[Cunard Cruiser]

Charles, you mentioned in your thread that Cunard makes their money from first time cruisers. Yes, maybe for the QM2. However, QE2 ‘s majority of passengers are repeater and use to be very happy clientele. For myself, I can say that I am a “Cunard passenger professional” with 34 voyages on QE2 and also a fourth generation of Cunard passenger. I see the downfall of Cunard. To be fair to Carnival, they did bring the floundering company back from Trafalgar’s poor track record. However with Princess at the helm the “Cunard definition” is gone. Simply stated, Princess is a “love boat” cruise ship company and only knows how to market and run cruise ships. Has Carnival or Princess ever owned an icon or the most famous ships in the world prior to the takeover of Cunard? The answer is clearly No.

 

[Transatlantic Tom]

Some of this reminds me of the business about Labour vs "New" Labour in the UK...i.e some of the old guard being suspicious about the direction of the party and policies under Tony Blair (Please,I didn't write this to start a political dialogue, and yes I'm American so I'm not an expert on British politics, etc)

 

Having said this, I'm looking at this situation as one of the organization being the "New" Cunard vs the Cunard we have known.....

 

I think that MNCyclist is indeed correct when he says that many veteran Cunard passengers back in the late 1960s were sceptical with regard to the then brand new QE2. Also, there seems much to be pleased with when it comes to QM2 (which I have not yet set foot upon): she is a liner with the thick hull, powerful engines, sufficient draft, etc. She has a black hull. She was built in a classic French shipyard (not in South Korea or Japan, etc...with all due respect to those countries and their shipbuilding industires). She has a "Queen" name. Carnival seems intent on continuing the transatlantic run. Etc., Etc., Etc.

 

This is all good news.

 

However, I think what alot of us are feeling/fearing/suspecting is that Carnival is boorishly throwing it's weight around....."We're in charge now, and everyone be damned"....maybe they are guilty of really bad PR....but....

 

*Tinkering with the Cunard flag

*Moving from the Manhattan piers to Brooklyn

*Minimal reference to QE2 on the Cunard website, and in "The Cunarder" magazine

*"Removing" Captains Wright and McNaught from Cunard service

*No single cabins(still), and no kennels(initially) on QM2

*Apparently having tea on QM2 at 3:30 PM and 3 PM

 

Some of these things are minor, and others are more substantial....

 

As someone on these boards said recently, you can't, on the one hand, go around marketing yourself to the max as a continuation of tradition ("White Star Service", and constant reminders about "Queen Mary" and "Queen Elizabeth") and not on the other hand be somewhat careful about messing around with that very tradition.

 

That's the kind of thing that is upsetting us.

 

Modernize, improve, progress --- YES, please !!!

 

Respect some of the traditions, too, please.

 

The removal of Captains Wright and McNaught seems gratuitous, until otherwise explained......

[Blazerboy]

Haven't sailed on the QM2 yet, but did want to post a story about the QE2 that relates to Charles' comments. (hope my mind isn't giving out and that I didn't post this before)

 

In the early '70's we traveled back and forth by liner, and after a few trips on the French Line, started sailing on the Italian Line. By the time we heard that the Raffaello was being taken out of service, it was too late to book, but my mother quickly booked us on the last crossing of the Michelangelo(1976). Because we hadn't intended on a trip to Italy that Spring, we simply stayed at Lake Como for the weekend and flew home.

 

My mother, to this day, hates to fly, so upon our return, she was sitting in the airport bar in Milan nursing some bourbon to steel her nerves for the flight. The gentleman next to her, sensing her discomfort, started a conversation, during which my mother lamented the end of the transatlantic era. The gentleman offered that she could always cross on the QE2, and my mother dismissively said "oh, that's nothing but a floating discotheque!" Of course, the gentleman in question was very high up with Cunard, and my mother was mortified.

 

Given how the QE2 is viewed today by the cruisnig public as not being "glitzy" enough, or having enough modern amenities like rock walls and skating rinks, it's funny.

 

Nothing like the passage of time to change perspectives.

[MollyBrown]

According to my sources, Carnival did rescue Cunard financially, and was for the most part sticking to the idea of maintaining the Cunard traditions. Princess, however, has since then taken over, and, according to my sources, is systematically dismantling Cunard as we have known it, and "deliberately" doing away with the British traditions of Cunard, with a dogged determination and prejudice.

[MollyBrown]

<<<<However, I think what alot of us are feeling/fearing/suspecting is that Carnival is boorishly throwing it's weight around....."We're in charge now, and everyone be damned"....maybe they are guilty of really bad PR....but....

 

*Tinkering with the Cunard flag

*Moving from the Manhattan piers to Brooklyn

*Minimal reference to QE2 on the Cunard website, and in "The Cunarder" magazine

*"Removing" Captains Wright and McNaught from Cunard service

*No single cabins(still), and no kennels(initially) on QM2

*Apparently having tea on QM2 at 3:30 PM and 3 PM

 

As someone on these boards said recently, you can't, on the one hand, go around marketing yourself to the max as a continuation of tradition ("White Star Service", and constant reminders about "Queen Mary" and "Queen Elizabeth") and not on the other hand be somewhat careful about messing around with that very tradition.

 

That's the kind of thing that is upsetting us.

Modernize, improve, progress --- YES, please !!!

Respect some of the traditions, too, please.

The removal of Captains Wright and McNaught seems gratuitous, until otherwise explained......[>>>>>>

 

 

Again, according to very good sources, it is not Carnival, but Princess, and a determined Mr. Radcliffe, who are to blame.

 

And removing these wonderful Captains is shocking, and the last straw in my view.

[Cunard Cruiser]

Yes I agree that Princess is to be blamed. However, Carnival needs to share the reasonability. Cunard and Princess are both owned by Carnival and don’t tell me that Arison doesn’t have the last word on either line. For example, Mr. Payne who designed the QM2 was ordered by Arison to have so many decks with verandah cabins. It is a true shame. Mr. Arison built his empire and is an intellect in the shipping industry. I just don't understand his handling of Cunard. To bad he doesn't read these boards, maybe it would enlighting.

 

 

 

 

[QueensFan]

I have commented on how much this worries me before. At first, I was just noticing QE2's "demotion". But now it's line-wide.

 

At first, I thought that the Carnival thing would be fine. They stuck to Cunard tradition, designed QM2 to work like a liner, if not look 100% like one, and kept Cunard more or so as it was for the first 4-5 years of their ownership.

 

However, it was those couple months after QM2's launch that it all went downhill. Princess was not the right line to merge Cunard with. They are just too different. Princess is a completely different company than Cunard. The experiences you have on each are polar.

 

I think that the problem is that Carnival is a company that has mostly "normal" cruise lines, meaning either mass-market or "modern luxury." Most of their lines, with the exception of HAL (and maybe Costa...I'm not sure), were formed within the past 20-30 years as cruise lines by design.

 

Cunard, however, is a completely different market segment. It requires different things to make it work. The elements that make other lines succeed will make Cunard fail.

 

I think that Carnival doesn't realise this. They are putting two non-compatible brands together. They're like oil and water.

 

If this gets too out of hand, I believe that there will be a lot of us Cunard fans who will give up on the line. We love the line for the traditional aspect and the luxury aspect. However, if the former goes away, then there are plenty of other cruise lines out there that have the luxury. It might not be the QM2, but if it gets to that point, the QM2 might not be the QM2 either. :(

 

 

 

Two other things to say real quick:

1) What was the change to the Cunard flag? I missed that.

2) Another thing for the list: putting RCCL (I think?)'s "Movies Under the Stars" on QM2 - saw it in the brochure and almost puked. Yeech.

[mncyclist]

Very thoughtful posts and clearly there is a lot of passion for Cunard and its heritage. I actually agree with most of what everyone is saying, but will go back to my assertion that if Carnival/Princess have any business sense at all, they will not destroy Cunard. People who are able to afford the higher Cunard prices will quickly detect if Cunard has become merely a brand without any substance behind it. The Cunard feeling must be perceived as genuine and actually be as genuine as possible.

 

Captain Wright was wonderful on our crossing so it was distressing to hear about his re-assignment, but again, I don't think any of us has all of the information, so this alone isn't enough evidence to me of something destructive. I also find the Brooklyn terminal possibility as troubling and I hope it doesn't happen, but I place more of the blame on New York City for failing to invest in the Hudson piers and thus driving the ships away.

 

As for some of the other issues, we should keep in mind that QM2 has barely been in service for 16 months on a career that could last up to 40 years. So I guess I just try to be optimistic and hope that improvements will continually be made, including the restoration of whatever traditions that some may feel have been lost. I also feel that QM2 is a unique ship, just as QE2 is, and will develop her own traditions and legends that will, inevitably be different, but in my opinion, no less cherished or valid.

 

Charles

[dougnewmanatsea]

Just to chime in here...

 

I've never been on Cunard, so I can hardly claim to be one of the "old guard" of Cunard passengers, but:

 

What is all this business about Captains Wright and MacNaught being "demoted" or worse, "fired"?

 

Cunard, for better or for worse, is now part of P&O Princess. Senior officers have moved back and forth between the various P&O Princess brands (P&O Cruises, Princess, P&O Cruises Australia, etc.) for years. Moving from one brand to another is not a demotion, and it certainly is not the same as being fired. It's common practice. P&O and Princess have been drawing from the same officer pool for many years and it seems likely to me that all that's happening is that the same thing is now going on with Cunard. I don't see where this is a particularly terrible thing.

 

Right now all we know is that the two Captains are being transferred to other brands' ships. That's it. I don't mean to comment on whether Princess is doing a good or bad job at handling Cunard - I could hardly know that as I've never even stepped foot on a Cunard ship (though I do plan to at some point) - but it does seem to me that people are jumping to conclusions before anyone actually knows what's going on. I imagine that in due time there will be some perfectly reasonable explanation for what's going on. If there isn't, then get outraged.

 

Just this lurker's $0.02.

[signman]

Doug, It's hard to put a finger on it, but there IS something special about the Masters of the Queens. There is something magnetic about them. On other ships I've sailed, I've had absolutely no desire to be at an officers' table or to interact with them. Maybe it's the language barrier, but one of the things people are interested in when booking Cunard is who the Captain will be. These individuals are assets for the line.

[wripro]

host doug,

 

who cares who steers a regular cruise ship like princess or P&O??? it's a cruise ship that basically sails overnight to get you to the next port where they can sell you more excursions. but cunard has marketed the QM2 as an ocean liner following in the great tradition of its previous liners and they have ALWAYS been commanded by british captains. you must have seen the advertisements last year for the QM2 in which a woman was doing her housework in an evening gown because she just couldnt wait to get aboard the QM2. that is the image they have projected and marketed but sadly, the reality is far from that. its not only that theyre replacing captain wright. i am a veteran of several QE2 crossings and did 2 on the QM2 this past fall. whats missing on the QM2 is the FEELING of being on a crossing. what you feel is that youre on a cruise ship with no ports. perhaps its an intangible but anyhone who crossed on real ocean liners in the heyday will know what im talking about. start replacing the captains and commanders who set the tone for everything on a ship and the QM2 will soon disintegrate to what ive seen her referred to as....princess mary. sad!!!!! from now on ill do repositioning crossings on silversea or seabourn where they know what luxury is.

[dougnewmanatsea]

who cares who steers a regular cruise ship like princess or P&O???

I certainly do - seeing as I do not want them to hit anything ;) ...

 

cunard has marketed the QM2 as an ocean liner following in the great tradition of its previous liners and they have ALWAYS been commanded by british captains.

Sorry, when did anyone say anything about having non-British captains?

 

I still think that too much is being made of this at this point. We really don't know what's going on yet, so let's not jump to conclusions.

[Richard Schmidt]

Just to chime in here...

 

I've never been on Cunard, so I can hardly claim to be one of the "old guard" of Cunard passengers, but:

 

What is all this business about Captains Wright and MacNaught being "demoted" or worse, "fired"?

 

Cunard, for better or for worse, is now part of P&O Princess. Senior officers have moved back and forth between the various P&O Princess brands (P&O Cruises, Princess, P&O Cruises Australia, etc.) for years. Moving from one brand to another is not a demotion, and it certainly is not the same as being fired. It's common practice. P&O and Princess have been drawing from the same officer pool for many years and it seems likely to me that all that's happening is that the same thing is now going on with Cunard. I don't see where this is a particularly terrible thing.

 

Right now all we know is that the two Captains are being transferred to other brands' ships. That's it. I don't mean to comment on whether Princess is doing a good or bad job at handling Cunard - I could hardly know that as I've never even stepped foot on a Cunard ship (though I do plan to at some point) - but it does seem to me that people are jumping to conclusions before anyone actually knows what's going on. I imagine that in due time there will be some perfectly reasonable explanation for what's going on. If there isn't, then get outraged.

 

Just this lurker's $0.02.

 

Host Doug,

Thanks for the 2 cents, but you're wrong. First of all P&O, which used to be a reputable ocean liner concern, now operates with Princess' castoffs; old cruise barges unfit for the open sea, as opposed to new Princess ships, new cruise barges unfit for the open sea. As I stated in another posting, transferring a Cunard Captain of one of the Queens to one of the floating condominium complexes that pass for ships in the tacky Carnival/Princess "fleet" is akin to making the conductor of the New York Philharmonic head of a hillbilly jug-band.

 

Your argument is completely undercut by your admission that "I could hardly know that as I've never even stepped foot on a Cunard ship (though I do plan to at some point)" Sadly, you never will. Cunard, the last operator of the last real ocean liners on this planet, has ceased to exist. With the Carnivalization of the QE2 and the shameless discounting of the mutant QM2, we have seen the end of the elegant and civilized era of ocean travel.

So enjoy your rock-climbing walls, the paper umbrellas in the "drink of the day", the "build your own pizza" nights in the Lido, the reggae bands mid-Atlantic, the Texas Hold-em tournaments in the Queens Room. Marvel at the parade of passenger dressed in their finest denim on formal nights. As you've never known anything about Cunard or the special, intangible magic of a classic trans-Atlanti crossing, you will be satisfied enough, it is clear. All I know is that in a world full of steel-drum-serenaded ferry boats

there was a need for a classic ocean liner with a British Captain wedded to the traditions of 165 years of trans-Atlantic crossings. Now we'll get Captain Bob and 'dollar tequila shooters all around. Cheers.

 

Richard

[carlmm]

I know I repeat myself but it is a sad truth: Princess might do very well in the advertised "American-style of cruising" - it is just the opposite of what one expects from a British ocean liner.

Thus, unfortunately yes, Princess and Carnival behind all that are destroying Cunard.

And they even know: When I was on one of the last Caronia cruises last year already many things had gone downhill (Less quality food, cheap non-brand toilettery if you did not ask specifically for British ones, the birdy dance at pool side, ..., many small details, each one not essential, but in total creating the ambience) When I mentioned to Cunard representatives that many traditional Cunard guest were disappointed about this as well about characteristics of the QM2 (e.g. no single cabins, casual nights on a crossing) the answer was clear: "We know. But we do not care for the old Cunarders, we want to attract a different group of passengers."

 

Maybe the belive it makes business sense to destroy a company with such a proud and distinct image to form just another American-Style brand (with some Britsh looking symbols thrown in).

Yet it is clearly just very sad for those who loved Cunard as it was.

[eroller]

Very good points everyone. I also have my concerns that Princess could end up doing more harm than good when it comes to Cunard. They know how to run large mass-market ships VERY well ... probably better than average. This doesn't mean they will be experts at running QE2 and QM2. I sincerely hope they don't go in with the attitude of "were Princess Cruises, we know what's best" , although in some ways I think they already have.

 

Someone early in the thread mentioned: "We should keep in mind that Cunard needs to be run as a business and they do not operate the classic QE2 or the amazing QM2 just to keep ocean liner enthusiasts happy". I agree Cunard needs to be run like a business, but Cunard MUST keep it's ocean liner enthusiasts happy as these people are the core business of Cunard Line. Unlike Princess, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc., Cunard relies heavily on it's reputation of offering a true "ocean liner" experience, not some average 7-day cruise to the Caribbean. Who is interested in a true "ocean liner" experience? Ocean liner enthusiasts of course, and those looking for something beyond a 7-day mass-market experience. Cunard must rely heavily on it's past passenger base to fill it's small, two ship fleet. It's unlikely they have the budget to attract first time cruisers, and frankly first time cruisers have no interest in Cunard. Being at sea for 6 days? I don't think so. That type of voyage has a very limited appeal so it's probably best if Princess/Cunard doesn't piss off it's core group of passengers.

 

One thing no one mentioned is Cunard's new pricing. This is something I find quite disturbing. It's obvious Princess yield management is in full charge of selling the QE2 and QM2. The objective for Cunard is now identical to that of Princess Cruises .... to fill all berths at ANY cost. We now have specials on QM2 crossings for $699 or less. Unheard of at the old Cunard regime. In fact QE2 almost always demanded a premium for these crossings. Even the QE2 in Europe is sailing at drastically reduced prices. So now we have a self-proclaimed "luxury" cruise line selling at per diems more in line with Carnival Cruise Lines (on some sailings). I'm not even sure if the low price points are filling the ships, as most people that are attracted to these kind of rates are not interested in being at sea for six days. What the low-ball pricing does do is jeopardize the integrity of Cunard Line, and the very market it's trying to appeal to. It also pisses off the loyal Cunard fan base that tends to book early and has historically received the best price by booking early.

 

As you can see, I definitely have my concerns about Princess running Cunard. Sure they know how to market and operate large ships, but I have to wonder if Cunard will end up as some watered down version of Princess Cruises. If this is the end result, there will be absolutely no reason to sail on Cunard.

 

Ernie

 

ps - I've also heard that Peter Ratcliffe has no love lost for QE2, so this can't be a good thing either.

[dougnewmanatsea]

First of all P&O, which used to be a reputable ocean liner concern, now operates with Princess' castoffs

Well, their new flagship is one of Cunard's castoffs actually (but really a HAL ship underneath) ;) .

 

However, my point still stands... Even back when P&O was a "reputable ocean liner concern", deck officers went back and forth between P&O and Princess all the time, just as they do now.

 

Cunard, the last operator of the last real ocean liners on this planet, has ceased to exist.

The real Cunard ceased to exist in 1972 when they were bought out by Trafalgar House.

 

So enjoy your rock-climbing walls, the paper umbrellas in the "drink of the day", the "build your own pizza" nights in the Lido, the reggae bands mid-Atlantic, the Texas Hold-em tournaments in the Queens Room.

Now then, I think we're exaggerating a bit here!

 

As you've never known anything about Cunard or the special, intangible magic of a classic trans-Atlanti crossing, you will be satisfied enough, it is clear.

Believe me, I would hardly be satisfied to say the least with the situation you describe above. Fortunately, I do not expect that Cunard passengers will be encountering reggae bands mid-Atlantic any time soon. I don't think even the Princess "cruise barges unfit for the open sea" have reggae bands outside of the Caribbean.

 

And don't tell me that I've "never known anything about Cunard". Actually, I know quite a bit about Cunard. I also think that it's rather silly to leap to outlandish conclusions when nobody knows the whole story yet.

[Paul NH]

One thing no one mentioned is Cunard's new pricing ... It also pisses off the loyal Cunard fan base that tends to book early and has historically received the best price by booking early.

This is a crucial point. Because I got burned this year by booking early, *if* I decide to go on another QM2 voyage, I now know to wait until the specials come out next time.

 

Their short term corporate booking mentality will be the long term death of high end service on QM2. When customers get wise to their price-cutting methods - and most of us already are - they will wait next time until the prices come down. That equates to $3 to $10 million less per voyage coming into Carnivals coffers. That puts pressure on them to cut back on expenses, driving the overall premium characteristics/experiences out of the ship. The post mortem from Carnival will be that the customers drove this spiral, but I would suggest that their discounting to fill every berth is a case of Carnival driving the customer to the lower end, not the other way around. It seems that the threads on this board are already showing evidence of this. I see their pricing methods as a death spiral for any kind of "premium" business model for Cunard.

[Richard Schmidt]

Very good points everyone. I also have my concerns that Princess could end up doing more harm than good when it comes to Cunard. They know how to run large mass-market ships VERY well ... probably better than average. This doesn't mean they will be experts at running QE2 and QM2. I sincerely hope they don't go in with the attitude of "were Princess Cruises, we know what's best" , although in some ways I think they already have.

 

Someone early in the thread mentioned: "We should keep in mind that Cunard needs to be run as a business and they do not operate the classic QE2 or the amazing QM2 just to keep ocean liner enthusiasts happy". I agree Cunard needs to be run like a business, but Cunard MUST keep it's ocean liner enthusiasts happy as these people are the core business of Cunard Line. Unlike Princess, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc., Cunard relies heavily on it's reputation of offering a true "ocean liner" experience, not some average 7-day cruise to the Caribbean. Who is interested in a true "ocean liner" experience? Ocean liner enthusiasts of course, and those looking for something beyond a 7-day mass-market experience. Cunard must rely heavily on it's past passenger base to fill it's small, two ship fleet. It's unlikely they have the budget to attract first time cruisers, and frankly first time cruisers have no interest in Cunard. Being at sea for 6 days? I don't think so. That type of voyage has a very limited appeal so it's probably best if Princess/Cunard doesn't piss off it's core group of passengers.

 

One thing no one mentioned is Cunard's new pricing. This is something I find quite disturbing. It's obvious Princess yield management is in full charge of selling the QE2 and QM2. The objective for Cunard is now identical to that of Princess Cruises .... to fill all berths at ANY cost. We now have specials on QM2 crossings for $699 or less. Unheard of at the old Cunard regime. In fact QE2 almost always demanded a premium for these crossings. Even the QE2 in Europe is sailing at drastically reduced prices. So now we have a self-proclaimed "luxury" cruise line selling at per diems more in line with Carnival Cruise Lines (on some sailings). I'm not even sure if the low price points are filling the ships, as most people that are attracted to these kind of rates are not interested in being at sea for six days. What the low-ball pricing does do is jeopardize the integrity of Cunard Line, and the very market it's trying to appeal to. It also pisses off the loyal Cunard fan base that tends to book early and has historically received the best price by booking early.

 

As you can see, I definitely have my concerns about Princess running Cunard. Sure they know how to market and operate large ships, but I have to wonder if Cunard will end up as some watered down version of Princess Cruises. If this is the end result, there will be absolutely no reason to sail on Cunard.

 

Ernie

 

ps - I've also heard that Peter Ratcliffe has no love lost for QE2, so this can't be a good thing either.

 

I have heard the same suggestion that Ratcliffe has harbored some animosity toward Cunard and her flagship, QE 2, for some time. I know for a fact that the woman he sent out to evaluate QE 2's future had herself never been on the ship and had never had the experience of a trans-Atlantic crossing. She was puzzled about "what people did for six days" in the middle of the ocean. No serious consideration of QE 2 and her place in the world would have been left to such a novice if Ratcliffe had any intentions of preserving her or the traditions she represents. I cannot escape the feeling that he and the folks at Princess will be happier when QE 2 is beached in Indonesia waiting to be scrapped. Then there will be no tangible reminder of what an ocean liner should look like, or what "White Star Service" was actually about. These are very sad times indeed.

 

Richard

[wripro]

host doug,

 

obviously, i did not mean that i dont care if the captain of a cruise ship is qualified. what i meant was that it means little to the integrity of a carnival or royal caribbean ship who the captain is because they have no history to uphold and no marketing strategy to live up to. on cunard the opposite is (or used to be) true. cunard used to stand for something. they have never marketed themselves as a fun ship or a love boat. they dont trot out the queen of england to break champagne on the bow of the newest carnival ship. yet she was there for the dedication of QM2 before her maiden voyage. why? because QM2 was supposed to be the continuatiojn of cunard tradition which means british captains and traditional ocean crossings. i suppose if and when they ever dedicate the new Queen Victoria princess will have paris hilton do the honors.

[mufi]

The Britishness of Cunard is just a marketing strategy, and to be honest we all go along with this, but know the reality. But the recent posts by guernseyguy from aboard QM2 indicate how dumb big business can be at times. It is obvious to anyone that the attraction of Cunard to most folk, particularly Americans, is the perceived classiness of Britain and British tradition. So why dump the Bronley toiletries for a US brand, which may be vastly superior but is quite obviously not British. It is the little things that we remember - many a mickle maks a muckle - as Robby Burns probably never said, but slowly, by design or stupidity the core clients of this brand are being shunted to the more expensive, but classier cruise lines. The tragedy is that THE classic liner voyage is being dumbed down and sold off to the lowest bidders.

 

David.

[eroller]

 

Their short term corporate booking mentality will be the long term death of high end service on QM2.

 

 

Great points! I'm hoping that your comments don't become a reality, but what happens now could dictate how Cunard is positioned in the future.

 

Lines like Carnival, Princess, and Royal Caribbean have excellent yield management strategies in place. The lower priced cruises have *almost* become a commodity where price is king. Fill the ships at any cost so onboard revenue is not sacrificed. The strategy works well on mass-market lines which largely offer the same style product.

 

Luxury lines are a different story. The onboard revenue should not be as much of an issue as the cost of the cruise ticket. Pricing integrity should not be compromised as the entire product depends on attracting a certain market demographic who fall into certain tax brackets. The expectation is that people are willing to pay more, but receive more as well. Sailing with a few empty berths should not be seen as the end of the world if pricing integrity was sustained. Unfortunately Princess is using the same yield management strategies for Cunard that are used for Princess Cruises, a mass-market line. It may or may not work in the short term to fill berths, but what long term effects it may have is anyone's guess. Add in Princess crew/Officer's and policies to the Cunard product and we are slowly seeing it erode.

 

Hopefully this is all a short term blip while Princess learns best how to manage Cunard. They certainly want to impress Carnival Corp. chief Micky Arison and the best way to do this is by filling ships and showing a profit. The problem is the strategy can back fire in the long run when dealing with an upmarket line like Cunard. Lessons should be learned from Seabourn which attempted to cut back services (such as all inclusive tips and drinks) a a few years back and also price points. It failed miserably and the line has gone back to an all-inclusive product with fewer discounting. Of course some major damage was done and market share was lost to Silversea and other luxury lines. To this day I don't think Seabourn has fully recovered, and rumor is the line is for sale.

 

Time will tell for Cunard and we can all hope the line finds itself within the Princess Cruises organization. I would feel more comfortable if Princess had a team that specifically dealt with Cunard. As I understand it, only a very staff (2 or 3) are dedicated to Cunard with the rest handling both Princess and Cunard as a combined unit. This might prove to be a huge mistake.

 

Ernie

[eroller]

It is obvious to anyone that the attraction of Cunard to most folk, particularly Americans, is the perceived classiness of Britain and British tradition. So why dump the Bronley toiletries for a US brand, which may be vastly superior but is quite obviously not British. It is the little things that we remember

David.

 

 

I totally agree David. I've said it before that cruise lines these days are more alike than different. It's the attention to detail that sets them apart, and it's the small details I notice most now when I cruise. Those lines that have the details down to a science are the winners in my book.

 

Cunard markets "tradition" and "Britishness" ... take that away and you are left with an average cruise line (although QM2 and QE2 are unique and wonderful ships).

 

Carnival Corp. has a division called "Shared Services" or something along those lines. It's purpose is how best to combine synergies between the different brands. Of course the real objective is to save money. Interestingly enough, the head of "Shared Services" is none other than Pam Conover, once Chief of Cunard Line. One of the easiest ways to save money is procurement. Why buy different products for Cunard than Princess? You can save money by ordering the same generic US brand of toiletries for both lines rather than Bronley just for Cunard. Cruise executives think no one will notice and they save a bundle in the process. People do notice ... especially Cunard passengers who tend to be frequent repeaters and notice EVERYTHING that is different.

 

Someday the cruise execs might get a clue!

 

Ernie