Friends and family discount

[tak2]

Hi Jim & Stan;

 

Lets get it clear, Jim & Stan. You are TA's by all appearances and you have in mind getting the most for each booking. You are on one side but the wise consumer is on the other side looking for a deal.. ..

 

Elwin

 

I do not know Jim & Stan, but I must speak up against your statement which is unjustified," you are on one side but the wise consumer is on the other.."

 

After reading hundreds of posts by Jim & Stan, I believe they mentioned about THEIR TA, who may very well be one of the recognized names on this board. Unlike doctors who should have their own doctor, a TA does not need another TA to book their cruise.

 

Another clue is the ceremony involving float out of Marina and Steel cutting of Riviera in 2010. Jim & Stan were invited to sign their names on the steel plate ( I may be wrong on the exact material here) as Oceania's guests ( there were 2 couples as representatives of guests, determined by Oceania)

. I do not think Oceania would extend this honour to TAs since it will be viewed as playing favourites.

 

By all appearances, Jim & Stan are customers of Oceania .

[GJH123]

Rallydave and Wripro:

Thank you very much for the specificity of your replies. They were very helpful to me.

 

Don:

I realize the value of a wonderful travel agent as we were stranded in Rome by the Icelandic volcano a couple of years ago. We had secured our own air arrangements through another local agent as the one we were working with on Oceania did not book air. Needless to say, we thanked her profusely when she was able to get us out through Athens. Upon our return, in addition to her fee, we sent gift certificates to her so that she might take her family out to some of their favorite restaurants in town. On the other hand, when I inquired about insurance claims with the Oceania agent (working under a large umbrella of independent agents), she basically told me I was on my own. I have secured another agent, who seems more service oriented; but failed to invoice our next cruise upon final payment without an extra request. So I seem to be batting a thousand here.

 

Please know that my request for information about services provided was sincere and that I would NEVER inquire of anyone what they had paid for a cruise. As far as I'm concerned, the Oceania experience (packed itinerary, wonderful service, delicious entrees, and comfortable accommodations) sells itself. We have been totally content with our experience on board without the intangible extras to which you allude. I was just trying fathom what the extraordinary service included; not invade anyone's privacy or elite status. So sorry for the perceived intrusion.

[Molliem]

Hi Jim, Stan Na Tak2:

 

We may have erred in stating Jim & Stan were TA's since they were so strong in representing that side. Appoligize for this representation. And for net commissions payable, yes they have to cover office expenses which is normal. For you clarification we have seen actual commission statements where gross commission was at 18% after air credit. Not bad! We do have to resent the statement by Jim & Stan "reputable agents don't do it, and to be frank, the amount of money that one could save even in a super suite on a long cruise is not worth the indignity of denying one's agent a living wage". Our TA is very respected by Oceania. Get out the "crying towel"and pay what you wish. END OF THIS DISCUSION!

 

Elwin

 

I do not know Jim & Stan, but I must speak up against your statement which is unjustified," you are on one side but the wise consumer is on the other.."

 

After reading hundreds of posts by Jim & Stan, I believe they mentioned about THEIR TA, who may very well be one of the recognized names on this board. Unlike doctors who should have their own doctor, a TA does not need another TA to book their cruise.

 

Another clue is the ceremony involving float out of Marina and Steel cutting of Riviera in 2010. Jim & Stan were invited to sign their names on the steel plate ( I may be wrong on the exact material here) as Oceania's guests ( there were 2 couples as representatives of guests, determined by Oceania)

. I do not think Oceania would extend this honour to TAs since it will be viewed as playing favourites.

 

By all appearances, Jim & Stan are customers of Oceania .

[hondorner]

...I was just trying fathom what the extraordinary service included; not invade anyone's privacy or elite status. So sorry for the perceived intrusion.

I understood that; I hope you understand that what I was trying to do was avoid giving the impression that my travel agent provides extra favors to me and not her other clients. That's simply because I don't know what she does for the others. I'd rather folks just join up with her agency and find out for themselves. All I know is that back in 2006 it didn't take rocket science to figure out who was providing the best information about the cruise line; I called her, signed up, and have been happy ever since.

 

I don't fit the profile outlined by Wripro, nor does my agency. I do all my own research and know what I want before I book; and my agency books only a limited number of cruise lines and does not book airlines, hotels, private excursions, transfers or restaurants. I do all that myself.

 

Because I DO know what I want, what I get from my agency is a better shot at obtaining exactly what I want, simply because they know how to do it.

[hondorner]

...Another clue is the ceremony involving float out of Marina and Steel cutting of Riviera in 2010. Jim & Stan were invited to sign their names on the steel plate ( I may be wrong on the exact material here) as Oceania's guests ( there were 2 couples as representatives of guests, determined by Oceania)

. I do not think Oceania would extend this honour to TAs since it will be viewed as playing favourites...

Betsy and I were the other couple at the float out and also signed the steel for Riviera's keel. We also were on the Christening cruise for Marina and the Christening cruise for Riviera with Jim and Stan, as well as other cruises. We've become very close (we're in our 70's and Jim and Stan are in their early 50's; we call them our "kids" ;)), and I know exactly how they book their cruises. I know what they do for a living, and I know they aren't travel agents.

 

Jim and I are both "wonks" who are driven to know how things work, and are willing to do the research to obtain that knowledge. Jim is more patient with finding awesome images to illustrate his points, and is more social than I am; I'm more of a Geek.

[wripro]

Here is the bottom line as far as I'm concerned. Oceania (or any cruise line) charges a certain amount for a certain cabin on each cruise. That is what the price is. It is not a penny more if you book if with a TA than if you book direct. It is no one's business how much commission a TA makes.

[LHT28]

Here is the bottom line as far as I'm concerned. Oceania (or any cruise line) charges a certain amount for a certain cabin on each cruise. That is what the price is. It is not a penny more if you book if with a TA than if you book direct. It is no one's business how much commission a TA makes.

+1

 

I agree with you

[joysav]

Jim and I are both "wonks" who are driven to know how things work, and are willing to do the research to obtain that knowledge.

 

Jim is more patient with finding awesome images to illustrate his points, and is more social than I am;

 

I'm more of a Geek.

 

Think I am closer to Jim , but I am a 67 year old ex Geek/Nerd.

Ah the good old days of DEC PDP 8's & 11's etc

 

But I realized the other day that I have finally shrugged that off when

my brother wanted to put Windows 8 on a ten year old machiine and

was told xxxx xxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx idiot. He then went to another

brother who is still a nerd and he was even less polite. :p .

Brotherly love does have its limits especially if Bill is involved :o

 

Cleaning up my old XP machine and going Tablets / Phone / Cloud .

 

.

[JimandStan]

Hi Jim, Stan Na Tak2:

 

We may have erred in stating Jim & Stan were TA's since they were so strong in representing that side. Appoligize for this representation. And for net commissions payable, yes they have to cover office expenses which is normal. For you clarification we have seen actual commission statements where gross commission was at 18% after air credit. Not bad! We do have to resent the statement by Jim & Stan "reputable agents don't do it, and to be frank, the amount of money that one could save even in a super suite on a long cruise is not worth the indignity of denying one's agent a living wage". Our TA is very respected by Oceania. Get out the "crying towel"and pay what you wish. END OF THIS DISCUSION!

 

Elwin

 

Elwin is entitled to his own opinion, such as it is, but he is not entitled to his own set of facts.

 

As of May 1, 2012, both Oceania and Regent instituted a comprehensive Anti Rebating Policy which categorically prohibits such discounting as well as offering amenities in amounts that would offset such a discount.

 

There are several severe penalties for flouting this policy, so if your Agent has heretofore engaged in such practices, you may be in for a rude awakening....or perhaps that "respected" Agent will be. :rolleyes:

[rallydave]

Elwin is entitled to his own opinion, such as it is, but he is not entitled to his own set of facts.

 

As of May 1, 2012, both Oceania and Regent instituted a comprehensive Anti Rebating Policy which categorically prohibits such discounting as well as offering amenities in amounts that would offset such a discount.

 

There are several severe penalties for flouting this policy, so if your Agent has heretofore engaged in such practices, you may be in for a rude awakening....or perhaps that "respected" Agent will be. :rolleyes:

 

Since Jim and Stan continue to refuse to read the actual policy and quote only the part that satisfies what they are saying, I am copying the exact policy below which is identical for both Regent and Oceania.

 

If everyone is careful to read the policy, they will note that the policy for rebating and providing extras only applies to advertising and promoting to the general public. It says nothing about providing these rebates and extras without advertising and promoting them. My TA as well as others do provide these rebates and extras with the knowledge of Regent and Oceania.

 

Certainly wish Jim and Stan would read the policy completely and STOP with the unfounded comments scaring people from booking with excellent TA's who are completely following the policy and not at risk of any penalties or losing the ability to book cruises. They are completely wrong and quoting facts not in evidence means they are making up their own facts. Elwin is absolutely correct:

 

At Prestige Cruise Holdings (PCH), our two cruise brands – Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises – fully appreciate the challenges that travel agents face today in managing the issue of rebating. Travel agents are increasingly faced with the difficult decision of whether to rebate a portion of their commission to protect a booking after investing marketing resources, time and intellectual capital to secure and service that booking, or risk losing the booking and their hard earned commission to another agent. Many of you have expressed considerable frustration whenever a competing travel agency lures away your customers with discounts or amenities that you refuse to match.

From our perspective, rebating creates confusion in the marketplace as it results in lower margins for agents and leads to a wide spectrum of prices and value-adds being offered for the same stateroom. Consequently, consumers are uncertain as to what they should expect to pay for a cruise and travel agents are uncertain as to what price to quote them. The result: confusion among consumers, frustration among travel agents and cruise lines wishing that their most important partners were focused on articulating the brand and value proposition of their respective lines rather than discounting product.

At PCH we believe that supporting travel agency economics is as good for our business as it is for yours, because an upscale cruise vacation is a product that is sold, not bought. Our value propositions needs to be understood, not discounted. And more important than at the larger cruise lines, our success is very dependent on the travel agent’s ability to learn and understand the wants and needs of cruise prospects, to know and be able to articulate the points of distinction, to match the prospect with the right cruise and ultimately, to close and service the customer over the many months from booking to sailing and start the cycle again when they return home.

In recent weeks, we reached out to many of our agency partners to solicit opinions and suggestions on how to address the important subject of rebating. What came through loud and clear was that the agency community is looking for more leadership from suppliers to preserve pricing integrity and to reduce the advantage some agencies have over others in being able to compete for business via price once another agency has already invested considerable resources to secure and close a sale. We learned that it’s not just the “Mom-and Pop” agencies that are adversely impacted by rebating…that many large agencies are reluctant rebaters who would much prefer to reinvest a portion of their commission into servicing their existing business and to actively promote and secure new business rather than giving it away to savvy shoppers in rebating situations.

Based on the feedback we received from the trade, Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises are pleased to announce the following comprehensive policy to mitigate rebating:

1. No travel agency or company may advertise or promote to the general public the cruise lines’ products online (including on websites with restricted/ membership-only access), in print, or by any other means, at a price or at a percentage off which is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing contained in an active group contract issued to the travel agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on the cruise line’s website.

2. Final payments must be in the gross amount due.

3. A travel agency may advertise amenities (over and above approved group related amenities) provided their total value does not exceed 5% of the cruise fare being advertised.

4. If a reservation is transferred to another travel agency (or is cancelled and rebooked) within 30 days of the reservation date and before final payment, the receiving travel agency will be paid a 10% commission.

5. If a reservation is transferred to a travel agency (or is cancelled and rebooked) more than 30 days after the booking was made or anytime inside the final payment window, a 10% commission will be paid to the originating travel agency and no commission will be paid to the receiving travel agency.

6. This same policy (numbers 4 and 5 above) will hold for bookings made without an associated travel agency except that when there is a transfer, the receiving travel agency will be paid full commission (instead of 10%) for transfers within 30 days of the reservation date and before final payment.

7. The cruise line reserves the right to reduce commissions and/or marketing funds, cancel or deny group contracts or take any other actions it deems appropriate if a travel agency violates this policy.

This policy will become effective on May 1, 2012.

We realize that there are many different viewpoints on the issue of rebating and that any cruise line’s policy will be met with praise by some and criticism by others. Hopefully, having developed this policy with input from numerous travel partners, we’ve found an approach that will significantly reduce rebating and protect the economics of those agencies committed to building their business based on the quality of the service they provide their customers.

 

The above is an exact quote of the policy. There is a second page with FAQ's and PCH very carefully uses the term advertising in the answers about rebating and providing amenities.

 

See for yourselves, the link to the policy is: http://www.rssc.com/media/hostedfiles/PDF/AntiRebatingPolicy.pdf

 

Everyone needs to make their own decision but, it needs to be made from the correct facts and not made up facts from people who come close to defaming TA's who are following the written policies.

[hondorner]

In this matter, as well as most life activities, There are technical legalities on the one hand and ethics and mores on the other.

 

The entire policy as displayed by RallyDave obviously sets the ethical and moral tone of the cruise line. They are against discounting and against rebating, and they have very good reasons, from their perspective and from the perspective of most of their agency partners, to feel that way.

 

A cynic may say, what's good for the cruise line and good for the agencies is not necessarily good for the client. And, from a purely selfish point of view, I might agree with them.

 

But, there are good reasons from the customer's point of view, also. If a client enjoys the cruise experience with a certain cruise line, it is in the client's interest that the cruise line make a fair profit and continue to prosper; otherwise the opportunity to enjoy that cruise line will slip away. The same is true, albeit to a lesser extent, with respectable and hard working travel agencies. They do provide services for most of us, and they do deserve to make a fair return on their investment.

 

That return may be less than most people realize, unless they have been exposed to a commission income. The Commission is paid to the agency. The agency splits it wth the agent. While that split may differ among agencies, the average is 50/50. There are commissionable and non-commssionable portions of the fare, and the agency has expenses to be met. The bottom line is the agent likely has a net income far below the raw number thrown around.

 

It is true that the PCH policy mentions only advertised discounts, rebates or amenities. That's all the law alllows them to regulate. As others (including me)have pointed out, the individual agency or agent is free to do whatever they like in terms of rebates, etc. However, it is clearly against their own self-interest to do so, clearly against the stated ethical and moral policy of the cruise line, and, ultimately, against the self-interests of the clients as a collective group.

 

Make your choice -- are you among the self-serving, greedy, money-centered individuals who don't give a hoot for anything other than your personal bottom line, or do you care about the impact of such behavior on others?

[Ship's Wake]

 

At Prestige Cruise Holdings (PCH), our two cruise brands – Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises – fully appreciate the challenges that travel agents face today in managing the issue of rebating. Travel agents are increasingly faced with the difficult decision of whether to rebate a portion of their commission to protect a booking after investing marketing resources, time and intellectual capital to secure and service that booking, or risk losing the booking and their hard earned commission to another agent. Many of you have expressed considerable frustration whenever a competing travel agency lures away your customers with discounts or amenities that you refuse to match.

From our perspective, rebating creates confusion in the marketplace as it results in lower margins for agents and leads to a wide spectrum of prices and value-adds being offered for the same stateroom. Consequently, consumers are uncertain as to what they should expect to pay for a cruise and travel agents are uncertain as to what price to quote them. The result: confusion among consumers, frustration among travel agents and cruise lines wishing that their most important partners were focused on articulating the brand and value proposition of their respective lines rather than discounting product.

At PCH we believe that supporting travel agency economics is as good for our business as it is for yours, because an upscale cruise vacation is a product that is sold, not bought. Our value propositions needs to be understood, not discounted. And more important than at the larger cruise lines, our success is very dependent on the travel agent’s ability to learn and understand the wants and needs of cruise prospects, to know and be able to articulate the points of distinction, to match the prospect with the right cruise and ultimately, to close and service the customer over the many months from booking to sailing and start the cycle again when they return home.

In recent weeks, we reached out to many of our agency partners to solicit opinions and suggestions on how to address the important subject of rebating. What came through loud and clear was that the agency community is looking for more leadership from suppliers to preserve pricing integrity and to reduce the advantage some agencies have over others in being able to compete for business via price once another agency has already invested considerable resources to secure and close a sale. We learned that it’s not just the “Mom-and Pop” agencies that are adversely impacted by rebating…that many large agencies are reluctant rebaters who would much prefer to reinvest a portion of their commission into servicing their existing business and to actively promote and secure new business rather than giving it away to savvy shoppers in rebating situations.

Based on the feedback we received from the trade, Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises are pleased to announce the following comprehensive policy to mitigate rebating:

1. No travel agency or company may advertise or promote to the general public the cruise lines’ products online (including on websites with restricted/ membership-only access), in print, or by any other means, at a price or at a percentage off which is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing contained in an active group contract issued to the travel agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on the cruise line’s website.

2. Final payments must be in the gross amount due.

3. A travel agency may advertise amenities (over and above approved group related amenities) provided their total value does not exceed 5% of the cruise fare being advertised.

4. If a reservation is transferred to another travel agency (or is cancelled and rebooked) within 30 days of the reservation date and before final payment, the receiving travel agency will be paid a 10% commission.

5. If a reservation is transferred to a travel agency (or is cancelled and rebooked) more than 30 days after the booking was made or anytime inside the final payment window, a 10% commission will be paid to the originating travel agency and no commission will be paid to the receiving travel agency.

6. This same policy (numbers 4 and 5 above) will hold for bookings made without an associated travel agency except that when there is a transfer, the receiving travel agency will be paid full commission (instead of 10%) for transfers within 30 days of the reservation date and before final payment.

7. The cruise line reserves the right to reduce commissions and/or marketing funds, cancel or deny group contracts or take any other actions it deems appropriate if a travel agency violates this policy.

This policy will become effective on May 1, 2012.

We realize that there are many different viewpoints on the issue of rebating and that any cruise line’s policy will be met with praise by some and criticism by others. Hopefully, having developed this policy with input from numerous travel partners, we’ve found an approach that will significantly reduce rebating and protect the economics of those agencies committed to building their business based on the quality of the service they provide their customers.

 

The above is an exact quote of the policy. There is a second page with FAQ's and PCH very carefully uses the term advertising in the answers about rebating and providing amenities.

 

See for yourselves, the link to the policy is: http://www.rssc.com/media/hostedfiles/PDF/AntiRebatingPolicy.pdf

 

Everyone needs to make their own decision but, it needs to be made from the correct facts and not made up facts from people who come close to defaming TA's who are following the written policies.

 

Thanks for posting the verbatim policy here rallydave. Always nice to be able to separate facts from opinion.

 

For this cruiser you've shared valuable information.

[JimandStan]

In this matter, as well as most life activities, There are technical legalities on the one hand and ethics and mores on the other.

 

The entire policy as displayed by RallyDave obviously sets the ethical and moral tone of the cruise line. They are against discounting and against rebating, and they have very good reasons, from their perspective and from the perspective of most of their agency partners, to feel that way.

 

A cynic may say, what's good for the cruise line and good for the agencies is not necessarily good for the client. And, from a purely selfish point of view, I might agree with them.

 

But, there are good reasons from the customer's point of view, also. If a client enjoys the cruise experience with a certain cruise line, it is in the client's interest that the cruise line make a fair profit and continue to prosper; otherwise the opportunity to enjoy that cruise line will slip away. The same is true, albeit to a lesser extent, with respectable and hard working travel agencies. They do provide services for most of us, and they do deserve to make a fair return on their investment.

 

That return may be less than most people realize, unless they have been exposed to a commission income. The Commission is paid to the agency. The agency splits it wth the agent. While that split may differ among agencies, the average is 50/50. There are commissionable and non-commssionable portions of the fare, and the agency has expenses to be met. The bottom line is the agent likely has a net income far below the raw number thrown around.

 

It is true that the PCH policy mentions only advertised discounts, rebates or amenities. That's all the law alllows them to regulate. As others (including me)have pointed out, the individual agency or agent is free to do whatever they like in terms of rebates, etc. However, it is clearly against their own self-interest to do so, clearly against the stated ethical and moral policy of the cruise line, and, ultimately, against the self-interests of the clients as a collective group.

 

Make your choice -- are you among the self-serving, greedy, money-centered individuals who don't give a hoot for anything other than your personal bottom line, or do you care about the impact of such behavior on others?

 

Thank you again Don, as usual you stated my position is a far more diplomatic manner than I ever could. :D

[rallydave]

In this matter, as well as most life activities, There are technical legalities on the one hand and ethics and mores on the other.

 

The entire policy as displayed by RallyDave obviously sets the ethical and moral tone of the cruise line. They are against discounting and against rebating, and they have very good reasons, from their perspective and from the perspective of most of their agency partners, to feel that way.

 

A cynic may say, what's good for the cruise line and good for the agencies is not necessarily good for the client. And, from a purely selfish point of view, I might agree with them.

 

But, there are good reasons from the customer's point of view, also. If a client enjoys the cruise experience with a certain cruise line, it is in the client's interest that the cruise line make a fair profit and continue to prosper; otherwise the opportunity to enjoy that cruise line will slip away. The same is true, albeit to a lesser extent, with respectable and hard working travel agencies. They do provide services for most of us, and they do deserve to make a fair return on their investment.

 

That return may be less than most people realize, unless they have been exposed to a commission income. The Commission is paid to the agency. The agency splits it wth the agent. While that split may differ among agencies, the average is 50/50. There are commissionable and non-commssionable portions of the fare, and the agency has expenses to be met. The bottom line is the agent likely has a net income far below the raw number thrown around.

 

It is true that the PCH policy mentions only advertised discounts, rebates or amenities. That's all the law alllows them to regulate. As others (including me)have pointed out, the individual agency or agent is free to do whatever they like in terms of rebates, etc. However, it is clearly against their own self-interest to do so, clearly against the stated ethical and moral policy of the cruise line, and, ultimately, against the self-interests of the clients as a collective group.

 

Make your choice -- are you among the self-serving, greedy, money-centered individuals who don't give a hoot for anything other than your personal bottom line, or do you care about the impact of such behavior on others?

 

Don,

 

As usual you provide a well written post most of which makes sense however, your last paragraph simply goes too far calling those us us who choose a TA who provides us a reasonable rebate "self-serving, greedy, money-centered individuals who don't give a hoot for anything other than our personal bottom line.

 

Can't speak for other but, I do respect the cruise line as well as the TA's right to make a fair profit. In all these discussions, nothing was said that would diminish the money paid to the cruise line so can't understand why you would bring that up.

 

It is only the TA who rebates what they consider a fair amount of money that raises the hackles of you as well as Jim & Stan. I assure you most of the people going to TA's who rebate don't go in and demand rebates that deprive the TA of a fair profit that will keep them in business.

 

Until I came upon Cruise Critic about 4 years ago I used a TA who provided nothing more than a bottle of wine for my bookings. She was often gone from the office and since I choose to do most of my booking on my own and only have the TA book the cruise I saw postings about TA's who rebate Luxury as well as Oceania type cruises. Found them easier to reach and work with that my often out of the office local TA. Have now moved to who I expect to stay with for the balance of my travel life as they are the best several other of us have found. Have recommended them to friends who have raved about them. They have the knowledge and connections to do an excellent job and they set the parameters which are, to use a term in many year of contracting, fair and reasonable to both the the buyer and the seller.

 

The terms you used to describe myself as well as others who choose to save a significant amount of money that the TA has decided is fair to them since they set the parameters is out of line and not far off what Jim and Stan called our TA's. TA's like you as well as Jim & Stan evidently go to fit the definition in your last paragraph much more than those of us who go to TA's who "offer" more" us rebates and perks.

 

Have to say that what you called many of us in your last paragraph is more appropriate to those TA's who keep what many of us consider way too much for what they do and refuse to share with their clients.

 

Do agree that it isn't right to go to a TA and negotiate or demand rebates putting the TA in a possibly bad financial position.

[JimandStan]

your last paragraph simply goes too far calling those us us who choose a TA who provides us a reasonable rebate "self-serving, greedy, money-centered individuals who don't give a hoot for anything other than our personal bottom line.

"]I don't know what else you can call it, particularly when this entire discussion revolves around......what was it called again? Oh yes, "THE ANTI-REBATING POLICY". Why DO you suppose that they gave it that odd title, if not to discourage rebating?

 

Don't you see the logic here? Oceania wants Agents to sell their cruises to the public by virtue of the merits of the product and the Agent's salesmanship, not by creating an artificial SALE on the product by splitting commissions. That only devalues the product, which hurts both the Agent AND the Cruise Line in the long run.

 

Finally, it is incorrect to say that the restrictions apply only to advertised rates. I call your attention to the very first paragraph of the policy:

 

No travel agency or company may advertise or promote to

the general public the cruise lines’ products online (including

on websites with restricted/ membership-only access), in print,

or by any other means, at a price or at a percentage off which

is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing

contained in an active group contract issued to the travel

agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on

the cruise line’s website

[rallydave]

"]I don't know what else you can call it, particularly when this entire discussion revolves around......what was it called again? Oh yes, "THE ANTI-REBATING POLICY". Why DO you suppose that they gave it that odd title, if not to discourage rebating?

 

Don't you see the logic here? Oceania wants Agents to sell their cruises to the public by virtue of the merits of the product and the Agent's salesmanship, not by creating an artificial SALE on the product by splitting commissions. That only devalues the product, which hurts both the Agent AND the Cruise Line in the long run.

 

Finally, it is incorrect to say that the restrictions apply only to advertised rates. I call your attention to the very first paragraph of the policy:

 

No travel agency or company may advertise or promote to

the general public the cruise lines’ products online (including

on websites with restricted/ membership-only access), in print,

or by any other means, at a price or at a percentage off which

is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing

contained in an active group contract issued to the travel

agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on

the cruise line’s website

 

Your comment doesn't change a thing. As your good friend Don pointed out, PCH cannot tell a company selling their cruises what to rebate or not to rebate. All of the TA's are selling both Regent and Oceania cruises at prices not less that the published price, the full amount which is going to the cruise line. They are NOT advertising or promoting to the general public in print or by any other means the rebates that they are providing.

 

PCH is aware of the fact that they cannot restrict what the TA does in private for their customers and thus allow the rebating that will continue and as long as the rebating is done in private, these TA's will continue to sell PCH cruises without being restricted. The TA's I am familiar with who rebate remain favored TA's with PCH and actually helped write the policy with PCH management such that open rebating is prohibited but, private rebating as long as the policies are followed remains allowed. Give it up Jim, all of your name calling and incorrect comments won't change the facts and what is going on and will continue to occur.

 

As is also stated in the PCH policy is that they are trying to stop people from price shopping between TA's and having cruises moved from TA to TA to get the lowest price and the policy about moving booking from TA to TA or cruise line to TA has been legally restricted while it is illegal in the US at least to restrict private rebating.

[Tansy Mews]

"]

No travel agency or company may advertise or promote to

the general public the cruise lines’ products online (including

on websites with restricted/ membership-only access), in print,

or by any other means, at a price or at a percentage off which

is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing

contained in an active group contract issued to the travel

agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on

the cruise line’s website

 

Does this mean that different agencies have different agreements with O? Can the preferred partners that you find through the O website give better prices than other agencies?

 

I am a little timid about stepping into this discussion but I did receive some emails from one of them purporting to offer me better prices. I am only on their mailing list because I clicked around when trying to see more about availability. I am happy with my TA but I am curious about this whole strange world!

 

I also went to a presentation at a restaurant in Toronto a few weeks ago with a friend. There was an additional discount for those who booked with the hosting agency. Someone from O was there. I didn't book another cruise - it was 2013 only so I didn't pay too much attention to actual prices.

Looking forward to my upcoming trip!

[rallydave]

Just noticed, as part of the policy, PCH is not eliminating rebating, they are mitigating it as stated in a portion of the "Anti Rebating policy as copied below:

 

Based on the feedback we received from the trade, Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises are pleased to announce the following comprehensive policy to mitigate rebating:

 

Mitigating is not eliminating, it is limiting which is what PCH has done with the policy by not specifically eliminating rebating or providing what one very prolific Regent and Oceania TA calls Reward Checks.

[digtexas]

I don't know why people get so agitated discussing this subject. If you want to pay retail for your Rolex and I go to a jewelry store that sells me the same watch for 30% less, I made my choice and you made yours.(and the discount jeweler made his) What difference does it make? I am sure that Rolex, on some level, would prefer that everyone pay retail, in order to maintain the integrity of their products. On the other hand,I bet that they are happy to sell as many watches as possible, which discounting by the retailers encourages. To each his own.

[hondorner]

Don,

 

As usual you provide a well written post most of which makes sense however, your last paragraph simply goes too far calling those us us who choose a TA who provides us a reasonable rebate "self-serving, greedy, money-centered individuals who don't give a hoot for anything other than our personal bottom line....

I think I was still in my pre-election mode when I wrote that. :o

[vaitape]

i don't know why people get so agitated discussing this subject. If you want to pay retail for your rolex and i go to a jewelry store that sells me the same watch for 30% less, i made my choice and you made yours.(and the discount jeweler made his) what difference does it make? I am sure that rolex, on some level, would prefer that everyone pay retail, in order to maintain the integrity of their products. On the other hand,i bet that they are happy to sell as many watches as possible, which discounting by the retailers encourages. To each his own.

 

exactly!

[Croooser]

As someone who is not familiar with rebates but is familiar with other TA provided incentives such as OBC, prepaid gratuities, prepaid insurance, etc, I have found this thread informative.

 

I do have a couple of questions on what I think is a related subject. In reading the policy statement from Oceania, it appears that group rates are authorized from time to time by Oceania and that they (Oceania) approve of discounted pricing to be passed on to the consumer in that case.

 

Can someone with first hand experience shed some light on the group rate issue - specifically:

 

1) Do some TAs frequently have group rates available for several different Oceania sailings at any given time? If so, how would I find those TAs?

 

2) Is there a somewhat standard range of discount % offered for group rates or does it vary significantly?

 

3) It appears that group rates are not permitted to be advertised or promoted, so how does one become aware of them - are there mailing lists from certain agencies? I am on the mailing list for some of the large online agencies and I usually find that their claims of discounts tend to be similar to the "discounted" rates claimed on cruise line websites from "brochure" rates which never existed to begin with.

 

4) Somone mentioned that some perks such as prepaid gratuities offered by TAs are actually a pass through from Oceania? How do you tell the difference from an Oceania provided perk and a TA provided one? Not sure that I need to but apparently some of you understand the difference and how to identify it.

 

Thanks for any insight that you can ofer.

[Tansy Mews]

 

4) Somone mentioned that some perks such as prepaid gratuities offered by TAs are actually a pass through from Oceania? How do you tell the difference from an Oceania provided perk and a TA provided one? Not sure that I need to but apparently some of you understand the difference and how to identify it.

 

Hi Croooser, an important point. For our Baltic cruise, we had an O perk - pre-cruise hotel night and transfer. We took the money instead and found cheaper accommodation. I met another cruiser who thought this "free" night came from their TA. They were not given the chance to opt out and use the freed up money in another way.

 

But your question - I assumed it was from the offers on the O website. Any other ways, cruisers with a whole lot more experience?

[LHT28]

Hi Croooser, an important point. For our Baltic cruise, we had an O perk - pre-cruise hotel night and transfer. We took the money instead and found cheaper accommodation.

Just to be clear

If it was a perk you would have not been given money back for not using the hotel offer

 

Some people get pre paid gratuities or OBC from the cruise line or their TA ..that is a perk

 

Repeat cruisers with a certain number of cruises will get an OBC, Spa treatments ..that is a perk

 

Lyn

[LHT28]

4) Somone mentioned that some perks such as prepaid gratuities offered by TAs are actually a pass through from Oceania? How do you tell the difference from an Oceania provided perk and a TA provided one? Not sure that I need to but apparently some of you understand the difference and how to identify it.

 

Thanks for any insight that you can ofer.

As I understand it (I could be wrong)

 

Top producing agencies get incentive points from the cruise line that they can use to offer their clients perks such as OBC or Pre paid gratuities... these are non refundable

 

On some cruises the cruise line will offer perks such as OBC &/or prepaid gratuities as an incentive to book that cruise

 

Some TA's will give their clients OBC as an incentive to book with them & these may be refundable if you do not use it all

 

I am sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken

 

Lyn