Lifeboat stations and wheelchair users

[glojo]

During the lifeboat exercise has anyone knowledge of how the crew deal with\handle disabled passengers that are wheelchair bound and are not on the same deck as the lifeboats?

 

I understand that for these drills passengers are understandably not allowed to use the lifts and I am simply curious as to how this is done.

[balf]

During the lifeboat exercise has anyone knowledge of how the crew deal with\handle disabled passengers that are wheelchair bound and are not on the same deck as the lifeboats?

 

I understand that for these drills passengers are understandably not allowed to use the lifts and I am simply curious as to how this is done.

 

The only way would be to carry the passenger up or down. They would also need to maul the wheelchair as well. I have never seen this practiced during drills.

 

I was going to say that they have this problem covered, but in an industry where it took the Concordia tragedy to make it compulsory to hold the lifeboat drill before sailing I would no bet on it.

 

David.

[glojo]

The only way would be to carry the passenger up or down. They would also need to maul the wheelchair as well. I have never seen this practiced during drills.

 

I was going to say that they have this problem covered, but in an industry where it took the Concordia tragedy to make it compulsory to hold the lifeboat drill before sailing I would no bet on it.

 

David.

My thoughts here are that it would be better to be proficient before an emergency, and hopefully they have a well rehearsed procedure.

 

The mind boggles at the thought of a seventeen stone passenger in a suitably large wheelchair trying to be carried? Could this be a theme for a Laurel and Hardy type sketch?

 

'That's another fine mess you've got me into Stanley'

 

As the wheelchair goes bumpty, bump down those beautifully carpetted stairs :)

[Pushka]

In the event of lifeboats needing to be used, especially if time is short, I have no idea just how disabled and frail passengers would manage. Given they warn that some tender locations can't provide for passengers in wheelchairs, I think it is an unspoken concern. Someone would have to manually pick them up and put them in. If overweight, well, I dunno:confused: It was something I gave thought too when I travelled with my elderly mother. If we happened not to be together when something happened, I dont think she would manage. She isn't in a wheelchair but has other disabilities.

[Scrapnana]

I make sure I am on the deck for the lifeboat drill at least a half hour before the drill just in case they do turn off the lifts. I can walk up and down the stairs but it gives my bad knees fits so I avoid the stairs when possible.

[Salacia]

In the event of lifeboats needing to be used, especially if time is short, I have no idea just how disabled and frail passengers would manage. Given they warn that some tender locations can't provide for passengers in wheelchairs, I think it is an unspoken concern. Someone would have to manually pick them up and put them in. If overweight, well, I dunno:confused: It was something I gave thought too when I travelled with my elderly mother. If we happened not to be together when something happened, I dont think she would manage. She isn't in a wheelchair but has other disabilities.

 

Pushka, I agree; it is an unspoken concern. Even those of us in the best of health can be incapacitated in an emergency event. I'd like to think that we would all do the best we can to be prepared and to help one another. I have been on cruises where there were many passengers who would need assistance in the event of an emergency, and no possible way their needs could be accomodated. Just the facts, and we might as well face them upfront. -S.

[spursdebs]

Speaking as someone who is a carer, and also disabled ( god I hate that term) I take this view, if the worst happens I/we will have no chance, will give it my/our best shot, as adrenaline is a great painkiller and motivator, and I/we wont go down without a fight, but I and my Mother are well aware the chances of us making it would be very slim.

 

I/we would rather die doing something fabulous, than hooked up on drips and machines anyway!

[glojo]

Some interesting points but...

 

In life I have always trained how I fight and fight how I trained. It definitely did not work out as well as I would have liked but on the plus side if I had not trained hard, then I dread to think of where I would be today.

 

Life boat drills are only useful if we can learn from them and put into practice what we learn.

 

I have never been on a cruise ship but I have seen more than my fair share of panic and this experience has taught me that unfortunately the old, the frail, the infirm and the polite will usually get crushed in the rush.

 

Iwould like to think that ALL cruise companies have a policy, a plan and a sensible means to execute that plan and hopefully we will hear from a disabled person that has been present during these life boat drills.

 

Apologies for asking this emotive question but I feel it a question that does need an answer. :o

[zider]

My wife now users a wheelchair, And I was informed on my last cruise On the Q.E that no matter what grade of room Grills /Britannia, That she was in that her! Lifeboat station was the Britannia Restaurant deck 3, Makes sense as that is also the boat deck, So those that use a wheelchair have to consider before booking the location of the cabin & their own!! ability to get to the station in a emergency.

[balf]

, and hopefully they have a well rehearsed procedure.

 

The mind boggles at the thought of a seventeen stone passenger in a suitably large wheelchair trying to be carried?

 

If they have a well rehearsed procedure I think they would have told us about it. Carrying a disabled, and as you say heavy person up flights of stairs calls for trained people such as firemen. The "stairway guides" are waiters, room stewards etc. nice caps but I think they would struggle on stairways, particularly against the flood of panicking passengers.

 

David.

[glojo]

My wife now users a wheelchair, And I was informed on my last cruise On the Q.E that no matter what grade of room Grills /Britannia, That she was in that her! Lifeboat station was the Britannia Restaurant deck 3, Makes sense as that is also the boat deck, So those that use a wheelchair have to consider before booking the location of the cabin & their own!! ability to get to the station in a emergency.

 

The most important thing when giving advice is that it is factual and accurate.

 

As of a certain date in 2013 wheelchair users\mobility scooter users sailing on Cunard HAVE TO BOOK AN ADAPTED CABIN are there any adapted cabins on that deck? I have no idea but what you say makes sense although negotiating stairs with a wheelchair is not difficult WITH PRACTICE

[zider]

The most important thing when giving advice is that it is factual and accurate.

 

As of a certain date in 2013 wheelchair users\mobility scooter users sailing on Cunard HAVE TO BOOK AN ADAPTED CABIN are there any adapted cabins on that deck? I have no idea but what you say makes sense although negotiating stairs with a wheelchair is not difficult WITH PRACTICE

Not exactly true what Cunard has said is that anyone that users a wheelchair has to have a wheelchair that is able to go through a normal sized door & must be stored in the room when not in use ,Now for those that use a chair that is larger or those that are confined to the chair, Then those people must book a adapted cabin.

[glojo]

Not exactly true what Cunard has said is that anyone that users a wheelchair has to have a wheelchair that is able to go through a normal sized door & must be stored in the room when not in use ,Now for those that use a chair that is larger or those that are confined to the chair, Then those people must book a adapted cabin.

Are you quoting from the very latest literature given out by the disability team from Cunard as what you are quoting sounds very much historical and not in line with their latest literature?

[MadScientist_01]

Much of this point depends upon what we are talking about - what to do for a muster exercise or what to do in an emergency - after all, in an emergency reaching the muster point, for able-bodied people, is the easy part; boarding the lifeboats and setting off in them is far more difficult but, short of implementing a full-scale evacuation as an exercise :eek: passengers will never experience the 'pointy-end' of the exercise until it is actually needed.

I would imagine most companies see the movement of disabled passengers to muster points in a similar fashion - have a plan for when it is actually required but don't implement it until then.

 

Because the muster itself is a maritime requirement the attendance of disabled people at it is the important part, so utilise the lifts to get them there.

[glojo]

Much of this point depends upon what we are talking about - what to do for a muster exercise or what to do in an emergency - after all, in an emergency reaching the muster point, for able-bodied people, is the easy part; boarding the lifeboats and setting off in them is far more difficult but, short of implementing a full-scale evacuation as an exercise :eek: passengers will never experience the 'pointy-end' of the exercise until it is actually needed.

I would imagine most companies see the movement of disabled passengers to muster points in a similar fashion - have a plan for when it is actually required but don't implement it until then.

 

Because the muster itself is a maritime requirement the attendance of disabled people at it is the important part, so utilise the lifts to get them there.

I certainly do not disagree with your very valid points but for the sake of the crew they need to put into practice these drills as they need to be competent and of course comfidant. If they have been told to do something but have never practiced it then I am guessing they will simply be confused and seeking guidance about what is expected? Far better to run through what is expected and give them the confidence that they need to exhude in a time of emergency.

 

The brochure simply talks about carrying disabled passengers and if that is what they are told then by crikey this will lead to confusion.

 

Should we put our head in a bucket of sand and pray nothing will happen or should we query what is to be done and maybe offer any advice or guidance in sorting out this issue?

 

I am a glass half full type of guy and I am confident about the skills of the ship's crew and feel sure the life boats will not be used for their primary role but as I have already suggested, training should be all about practicing events that might happen. (not will happen)

[MadScientist_01]

One would hope that they practice with a form of training aid and don't wander around during boarding hoping to spot a suitable challenge for their training :eek: similarly I would imagine they practice when passengers are not on board, as the sight of a 17 stone training bag being dropped down a flight of stairs may not instil confidence in the customers :D

 

Possible question for someone on a Q&A when next on board?

[glojo]

One would hope that they practice with a form of training aid and don't wander around during boarding hoping to spot a suitable challenge for their training :eek: similarly I would imagine they practice when passengers are not on board, as the sight of a 17 stone training bag being dropped down a flight of stairs may not instil confidence in the customers :D

 

Possible question for someone on a Q&A when next on board?

The turn around times I see gives very little to nlo chance of the crew doing this but hopefully when there is a break between cruises they might practice this.

 

Possible question for someone on a Q&A when next on board

I would hate to be the person answering this type of question as they are in a no win situation. far better to make subtle enquiries and liosten to what is being said.

 

The reason I say they are in a 'No win' situation is simply because if they answer with the same line as in the brochure, we simply ask for a demonstration of anyone attempting to carry a 17stone sack down multiple flights of stairs without stumbling. If they do not say they would carry the passengers then tghis is in direct conflict with their literature.

 

I am not having a dig at Cunard as I am of the opinion that all cruise lines will allow wheelchair bound passengers aboard their ships. I am just curious as to how they cater for these folks during emegency drills.

 

I will be having achat with a responsible person when we are aboard the ship but it will be over a glass of wine and in a friendly, informal, non judgemental manner. If they prefer not to inconvienance the disabled then who am i to disagree, their ship, their rules.

[Chunky2219]

I'm pretty philosphical about this topic. I was in a bad accident and (sort of) got away with it. I just happened to trade a fresh start for legs that now don't work properly. If tragedy strikes again I'll either come through it or I won't, but I fully expect the adrenaline to kick in just like last time.

 

Prior to needing a chair, I always used to have in mind my emergency route off an aircraft, a train or out of a hotel. Nothing has changed. I still devote a few minutes to understanding what I'm supposed to do, but also figuring out what my alternatives are. In a full-blown emergency I'd expect to be dealing with the considerate and the morons, chaos to rule and for the first time in my life my elbows might get involved. My backup plan would be to do stairs on my bum and deal with the bruises post-event.

 

Once, on our first cruise after my change in circumstances, we booked a suite on P&O. The butler said we definately had to go to muster drill, but said that if there was a proper emergency, not to bother with the formal plan. Just get back to the cabin and he'd get me to a lifeboat even if he had to carry me on his back. I'd like to think he would have done it, but the very offer got him a healthy tip on disembarkation day.

 

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p.s. In reply to the cabin question, the new rules say that if you have a scooter of any size or (I believe non-folding) wheelchair you either have to book an HC cabin or splurge on a suite. Same rules apply to P&O, but not yet to the other Carnival Group lines, which is odd! It prompted a lot of gnashing of teeth on the disabled forum.

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[balf]

The turn around times I see gives very little to nlo chance of the crew doing this but hopefully when there is a break between cruises they might practice this.

 

There is virtually no time when passengers are not aboard except during refits. I don't believe this is ever practiced.

 

 

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we simply ask for a demonstration of anyone attempting to carry a 17stone sack down multiple flights of stairs without stumbling.

 

Carrying a 17 stone sack is vastly different from a real live person

 

 

 

I will be having achat with a responsible person when we are aboard the ship but it will be over a glass of wine and in a friendly, informal, non judgemental manner.

 

I note you have yet to cruise - I wish you good luck with that one.

 

David.

[newjoisey]

my wife and i still quote and chuckle a drill instruction....."dont jump just step off" this was being given on deck 7 in the winter time.

[balf]

We are told in the case of an emergency to return to our cabin, put on warm clothing and head covering and medication.

 

But let's be realistic, what else would we really take. Me, my camera and wallet.

 

David

[newjoisey]

i am from the old school...........we tend to go away from anything that maybe on fire or sinking..........not back into to retrieve regimental kilts,****** or mums old jewelry but thats me:D

[glojo]

There is virtually no time when passengers are not aboard except during refits. I don't believe this is ever practiced.

we simply ask for a demonstration of anyone attempting to carry a 17stone sack down multiple flights of stairs without stumbling.

That is how I understand things and I agree with what you are intimating

 

I will be having achat with a responsible person when we are aboard the ship but it will be over a glass of wine and in a friendly, informal, non judgemental manner.

 

I note you have yet to cruise - I wish you good luck with that one.

David.

Thank you and do I detect an ulterior meaning? :)

 

I would like to think I have the tact and diplomacy to chat with folks but if not then so be it :)

[balf]

 

 

 

Thank you and do I detect an ulterior meaning? :)

 

:)

 

Non implied, it's just that getting hold of the safety officer to discuss these points is not a simple matter, though you could try to buttonhole him at a senior officers reception.

 

I will be interested to hear how you get on.

 

David.

[glojo]

Non implied, it's just that getting hold of the safety officer to discuss these points is not a simple matter, though you could try to buttonhole him at a senior officers reception.

 

I will be interested to hear how you get on.

 

David.

Thanks David but I have to be very aware of not sounding like some health and safety fanatic. If I ask a question at the wrong time, in the wrong place, then it would be the official party line.

 

I think the skill will be for this person to ask me the question (in a subtle piece of crafty pre-planning) :o;)

 

I am interested in the answer to this question but the cruise is the cruise of our dreams and I will worry more about what time the sun comes up as opposed to how do I get to my lifeboat station. I have a balcony cabin and if Mohamed cannot get to the mountain, then the mountain will have to come to moi!!! :eek:

 

As the ship sinks I am sure the water level will eventually reach our balcony so I will simply get my leg over..... the railings then step quite neatly into my allocated life boat that will have tied up starboard side to on my private pontoon, the crew will be neatly turned out in their best uniforms and I will be piped aboard :D in a manner befitting my rank!

 

Job done