Lifeboat stations and wheelchair users

[Salacia]

May I (respectfully, of course--is there any other way?) share the point of view of a dear friend, who's offspring works for Cunard--the ships, not the onshore offices:

 

"I find this thread thoroughly offensive. Some posters there are effectively calling into question the professionalism, training and commitment of the ships' complements, without an iota of real knowledge. Frankly, the time, effort and ability that is put into various different categories of exercise on a continuous basis, requiring the crew to partake during their "off-duty" hours, beggars belief but all must be carried out under the requirements of Maritime Law and, in the case of CUK, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency.

 

I wonder how some of your "armchair experts" would behave in their professional capacity if they were to be offered "assistance and guidance" by enthusiastic amateurs, however well intentioned, in the prosecution of their day-to-day business activities."

 

Please excuse me whilst I try and soothe the wounded parent...compounding rugby scores with the above will take more than a dram...

 

And, by the way, lifevests on a ship are nothing like those in use on a plane...;)

 

 

Hi NonDePlume. I'm sorry your dear friend found this thread deeply offensive. And I'm also sorry that people who might not be able to get to their muster stations in the event of an emergency have either no idea how to get there, or have abandoned hope of survival in an event of an emergency situation. Seems to me that both passengers and crew are on the same boat. The more we (passengers and crew) know what to do in an emergency, the better our chances are to act in our mutual interests and improve our odds for survival. Perhaps your dear friend would care to join this forum? Not that I would blame anyone who chose not to post directly :eek:

[capnpugwash]

I agree, we should not have to ask. I don't remember ever hearing the role of the stairway guides, but I have seen them practice emergency drills usually at port stops when the majority of passengers would not be inconveniced. My experience is that when such drills are conducted, passengers are told to stay clear of the area.

 

What is the role of the stairway guides?

 

The first and major clue is in their title, they are guides who stand on the stairways directing passengers to the muster stations. Get it?

[Salacia]

The first and major clue is in their title, they are guides who stand on the stairways directing passengers to the muster stations. Get it?

 

That's it? Direct passengers to the muster stations while standing on the stairways? Point up or down the stairwell? Good to know that's the extent of their duties, capnpugwash. Yes, I get it.

 

One might have thought that a stairway guide was one who guided passengers up or down the staircase, rather than just offering directions. Happily, we are disabused of that notion, thanks to your post.

[capnpugwash]

That's it? Direct passengers to the muster stations while standing on the stairways? Point up or down the stairwell? Good to know that's the extent of their duties, capnpugwash. Yes, I get it.

 

One might have thought that a stairway guide was one who guided passengers up or down the staircase, rather than just offering directions. Happily, we are disabused of that notion, thanks to your post.

 

Interesting idea!

[NomDePlume]

Hi NonDePlume. I'm sorry your dear friend found this thread deeply offensive. And I'm also sorry that people who might not be able to get to their muster stations in the event of an emergency have either no idea how to get there, or have abandoned hope of survival in an event of an emergency situation. Seems to me that both passengers and crew are on the same boat. The more we (passengers and crew) know what to do in an emergency, the better our chances are to act in our mutual interests and improve our odds for survival. Perhaps your dear friend would care to join this forum? Not that I would blame anyone who chose not to post directly :eek:

 

Good morning Salacia. Let me first assure you that it is I, NomDePlume, responding to your post, and not someone masquerading as me, using an incorrect spelling of my nom-de-plume...

 

Now that we have that straightened out, allow me to address your post directly. What you--and a few others--do not seem to grasp, is that my friend was appalled at the speed at which assumptions were made, calling into question the professionalism of the crew. We, as passengers, have no idea how their training is conducted, when it is held, and what exactly it covers. Whipping up a froth of panic with "well meaning" comments and questions such as have been posted here (have some been removed?) before one even sets foot on board is not helping the situation either. As far as getting to one's muster station in the event of an emergency, that's what the "muster" is for: familiarize oneself with its location and, if one might have a problem getting there in the first place--let alone in an emergency--asking the cabin steward or the stair guides how to do it. If they don't have the answer to your question, they know who to ask. Yes, passengers and crew are on the same boat, but impeding their actions should an emergency occur does no one any service. They are well trained. Over and over again. And, rather than bombard them with questions about the possible evacuation of others less able than we are, it would be far more effective for those who find themselves in that predicament to discuss the various scenarios with the crew during the muster.

 

As for my friend joining this forum, I'll spare you his comments.

[Fifer]

Good morning Salacia. Let me first assure you that it is I, NomDePlume, responding to your post, and not someone masquerading as me, using an incorrect spelling of my nom-de-plume...

 

Now that we have that straightened out, allow me to address your post directly. What you--and a few others--do not seem to grasp, is that my friend was appalled at the speed at which assumptions were made, calling into question the professionalism of the crew. We, as passengers, have no idea how their training is conducted, when it is held, and what exactly it covers. Whipping up a froth of panic with "well meaning" comments and questions such as have been posted here (have some been removed?) before one even sets foot on board is not helping the situation either. As far as getting to one's muster station in the event of an emergency, that's what the "muster" is for: familiarize oneself with its location and, if one might have a problem getting there in the first place--let alone in an emergency--asking the cabin steward or the stair guides how to do it. If they don't have the answer to your question, they know who to ask. Yes, passengers and crew are on the same boat, but impeding their actions should an emergency occur does no one any service. They are well trained. Over and over again. And, rather than bombard them with questions about the possible evacuation of others less able than we are, it would be far more effective for those who find themselves in that predicament to discuss the various scenarios with the crew during the muster.

 

As for my friend joining this forum, I'll spare you his comments.

 

Well said! It's about time there was some common sense on this thread. Do any of us really think that the cruise lines haven't thought about this issue? Haven't planned for this? Haven't trained for this - even before Captain Rocky's little difficulty?

 

Of course those who do think that way now have the opportunity to ask Peter Shanks directly. That should sort it out.

[Norfolk Brit]

Well said! It's about time there was some common sense on this thread.

 

Hear hear! A welcome spot of realism at last.

 

Mary

[Chunky2219]

Of course those who do think that way now have the opportunity to ask Peter Shanks directly. That should sort it out.

If I ever see him on ship, I'll make the point of asking on behalf of those who are a little more animated by the issue than I find myself.

 

Unfortunately, my only experience of writing to Mr Shanks regarding a disability issue was deeply disappointing. I got a reply from an underling, who gave me the standard guff and didn't appear to have even read and digested my initial concern. When I persevered, I got the next best answer..... "It's not our fault, we rely on the locals". By implication, it wasn't Cunard's responsibility and no further discussion was warranted. Mindful of the pending increase in the price of postage I gave up.

 

By dint of the fact that in times of emergency there will be no-one else to balme, I'm happy with the comforting thought, hopefully no illusion, that they have got it all sorted and I'll be eating pasta on shore with a blanket around me well before the ship capsizes. I just hope they save my chair, 'cos it was custom made.

.

.

.

[Fifer]

If I ever see him on ship, I'll make the point of asking on behalf of those who are a little more animated by the issue than I find myself.

 

Unfortunately, my only experience of writing to Mr Shanks regarding a disability issue was deeply disappointing. I got a reply from an underling, who gave me the standard guff and didn't appear to have even read and digested my initial concern. When I persevered, I got the next best answer..... "It's not our fault, we rely on the locals". By implication, it wasn't Cunard's responsibility and no further discussion was warranted. Mindful of the pending increase in the price of postage I gave up.

 

By dint of the fact that in times of emergency there will be no-one else to balme, I'm happy with the comforting thought, hopefully no illusion, that they have got it all sorted and I'll be eating pasta on shore with a blanket around me well before the ship capsizes. I just hope they save my chair, 'cos it was custom made.

.

.

.

 

Just to be clear, my point was in reference to Mr Shanks appearing for a Q&A on this website, as advertised at the top of the Cunard Board by Host Laura.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Good morning Salacia. Let me first assure you that it is I, NomDePlume, responding to your post, and not someone masquerading as me, using an incorrect spelling of my nom-de-plume...

 

Now that we have that straightened out, allow me to address your post directly. What you--and a few others--do not seem to grasp, is that my friend was appalled at the speed at which assumptions were made, calling into question the professionalism of the crew. We, as passengers, have no idea how their training is conducted, when it is held, and what exactly it covers. Whipping up a froth of panic with "well meaning" comments and questions such as have been posted here (have some been removed?) before one even sets foot on board is not helping the situation either. As far as getting to one's muster station in the event of an emergency, that's what the "muster" is for: familiarize oneself with its location and, if one might have a problem getting there in the first place--let alone in an emergency--asking the cabin steward or the stair guides how to do it. If they don't have the answer to your question, they know who to ask. Yes, passengers and crew are on the same boat, but impeding their actions should an emergency occur does no one any service. They are well trained. Over and over again. And, rather than bombard them with questions about the possible evacuation of others less able than we are, it would be far more effective for those who find themselves in that predicament to discuss the various scenarios with the crew during the muster.

 

As for my friend joining this forum, I'll spare you his comments.

 

 

I agree! Anyone who knows that he/she would need extra assistance in case of an emergency will probably make inquiries about it somewhere--during the drill, asking the room steward, asking at the Purser's desk.

[balf]

We, as passengers, have no idea ]

 

Can you or your friend not understand that that is just the problem. We should not have to ask, we should be told what training the crew have and what the plan is for dealing with this specific situation. This has nothing to do with the integrity and dedication of the crew and you should not try to imply that it is.

 

I agree that it is not helpful to post on certain matters when you have never cruised, but there are many of us here who are well acquainted with life aboard.

 

This whole situation is typical of large organisations who take a view of them the customers, patients and yes cruisers, and us, professionals. On a ship we are all in it together, the more we, the passengers know the better the likely outcome in an emergency.

 

David.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Can you or your friend not understand that that is just the problem. We should not have to ask, we should be told what training the crew have and what the plan is for dealing with this specific situation. This has nothing to do with the integrity and dedication of the crew and you should not try to imply that it is.

 

I agree that it is not helpful to post on certain matters when you have never cruised, but there are many of us here who are well acquainted with life aboard.

 

This whole situation is typical of large organisations who take a view of them the customers, patients and yes cruisers, and us, professionals. On a ship we are all in it together, the more we, the passengers know the better the likely outcome in an emergency.

 

David.

 

I look at this situation as a "need to know" kind of thing. What percentage of passengers are unable to get to their muster stations without physical assistance? (I'm not including a need to ask directions) The speech that is read at muster drill is long enough. People get bored and tune out. To lengthen the script with information that applies to only some of the passengers encourages people to stop listening.

[Jimsgirl]

Although at first glance this posting may seem to contain an item that is off thread it really is not.

 

We all have seen at musters the passengers who continue to have their own private coversations, read, text , at one, I saw and heard a couple who on being told they were at the incorrect "station" refused to go to the correct on because they had a table FULL of food, which they continued to eat all through the muster

 

Will people in an emergency, follow the rules? I doubt it.

 

Instance , I live in a Condo building, the TV, radio, even newspapers told us a Cat 4 Hurricane was coming, and what we should do to be safe.

 

Instead of following these precautions,(inside room, not near windows ,stocking up on essentials -like medications) quite a few of my neighbours chose to sit in the entrance hall in front of three 30 foot tall windows, to "watch the storm" The windows were blown in!

 

Chaos. With almost 40% of the town destroyed, these same people demanded "help" -"I have no water,my toilet does not flush, I am OUT of medications , someone will have to get me some, etc etc etc".

 

It happened in 204 and will happen again because sadly, there will always be those who think the rules do not apply to them, that they need not be responsible for taking care of themselves in an emergency.

 

Does Cunard have a plan to "carry wheelchair passengers" to the lifeboat, I do not know, my feeling is such a plan would not work -think how many wheelchair passengers are on the cruise

.

Should we expect them to have special staff just to "save us"?

 

My views are known.

 

I cruise at my own risk. I expect Cunard to operate the ship in a safe manner, but in an emergency I am responsible for myself, I should not demand (or EXPECT) assistance simply because I am "old , or otherwise impaired"

[MadScientist_01]

During the lifeboat exercise has anyone knowledge of how the crew deal with\handle disabled passengers that are wheelchair bound and are not on the same deck as the lifeboats?

 

I understand that for these drills passengers are understandably not allowed to use the lifts and I am simply curious as to how this is done.

 

 

I'll bet it seemed like such a straightforward question when you asked it!

[glojo]

I have to be careful these new posts do not raise my hackles as they pontificate without contributing.

 

Perhaps they are hecklers trying to raise my hackles?

 

I for one am certainly NOT being critical of any type of training, and I do not believe anyone has so far criticised how the crew conduct themselves?

 

I do however scoff at the way some folks assume what others might know, or do not know.

 

I could say I have a 'friend' who knows the answer or is an expert in this field but have I?

 

Words are cheap and Internet Warriors are two a penny.

 

I for one have ALWAYS made it perfectly clear I have never set foot aboard a cruise ship...... but I have been at the sharp end of a tragedy at sea involving a large cruise ship so please do not try to pretend that your 'friend' is being constructive by merely mocking this thread.

 

Is anyone commenting about the quality of training aboard a modern cruise ship?

 

Your 'friend' can mock from afar as much as they want but I have asked a very simple question that deserves an answer and if your 'friend' knows so much, then let them answer this simple question through you.

 

I FULLY understand why a serving crew member would not want to join this debate, I understand and respect them for that but I will NOT respect anyone that simply mocks and pretends they are the resident expert and apart from mocking, they offer nothing!!

 

I say pretend as they are not offering anything constructive regarding this query, it is a simple and straight forward question that deserves an answer.

 

How does a passenger that is wheelchair bound get from their deck 8 cabin to the lifeboat or muster point without using the ship's lifts?

 

A straight forward question that does not need an arrogant reply or a reply that simply states they will get them their.

 

Apologies if I am getting reeled in by a troll and I genuinely look forward to an answer to this important question.

 

My own thoughts regarding the answer is the ship MIGHT have some sort of gizzmo that allows\helps\assists a wheelchair to get up, or down a flight of stairs, but that is me thinking aloud and NOT saying they have or do not have the 'gizzmo' ;).

[bluemarble]

My apologies if this is duplicate information, but I haven't seen this FAQ from the Cunard web site mentioned yet in this thread. I'll quote it here since it may help contribute to the discussion.

 

https://ask.cunard.com/help/cunard/before-you-sail/Emergency_Assistance_Disabled

What assistance is offered to disabled customers in an emergency?

 

When booking your voyage, you need to tell us if you have a disability which might mean that you require additional assistance in an emergency situation.

 

Our Disability Team collate this information and ensure that each ship has a list of guests requiring extra assistance, together with their stateroom numbers, before the ship sails. In the event of an emergency and when guests are called to their Muster Stations, all guest cabins are checked and evacuated by the stateroom steward. Any guest who requires assistance getting from their stateroom to the Muster Station will be given the required assistance by the ship’s specially trained Guest Assistance Party.

 

Special evacuation chairs are available on all ships which will be utilised to transport guests down stairs if required. This assistance will be arranged/requested by the stateroom stewards evacuating the staterooms. In the event that a guest is away from their stateroom, either on the open decks or in a public room, at the onset of an emergency, these areas are also checked and evacuated. In this event any guest requiring assistance would be taken directly to their Muster Station by the Guest Assistance Party and a life jacket/s would be provided in the Muster Station. This assistance will be arranged/requested by the crew members assigned to evacuate these areas. Similarly if a guest requiring assistance presents themselves on a stairway at the onset of an emergency, this assistance will be arranged by a Stairway guide. Stairway guides are present on all stairways designated as guest evacuation routes.

 

Please note that in the event of an emergency, guests with restricted mobility will not be able to use the elevators (as with standard worldwide emergency procedures, elevators are not to be used in emergency situations). Please also note that in the event of an emergency, those guests using motorised wheelchairs or scooters will need to be transferred to either a regular wheelchair or evacuation chair. It is not possible for the Guest Assistance Party to transport passengers in motorised wheelchairs or scooters down the stairs, due to the additional weight and the subsequent risk of injury to the guest and members of the Guest Assistance Party in attempting this.

Regards,

John.

[Fifer]

How does a passenger that is wheelchair bound get from their deck 8 cabin to the lifeboat or muster point without using the ship's lifts?

With respect, that is not quite the question you originally asked:

During the lifeboat exercise has anyone knowledge of how the crew deal with\handle disabled passengers that are wheelchair bound and are not on the same deck as the lifeboats?

 

I understand that for these drills passengers are understandably not allowed to use the lifts and I am simply curious as to how this is done.

 

Your original question led with the crew's role and, inadvertently I'm sure, gave rise to what has followed. The internet being what it is, even in this haven for reasonable, rational people, the law of unintended consequences is often rapidly applied.

 

To your most recent question, Bluemarble appears to have resolved it.

[Salacia]

My apologies if this is duplicate information, but I haven't seen this FAQ from the Cunard web site mentioned yet in this thread. I'll quote it here since it may help contribute to the discussion.

 

https://ask.cunard.com/help/cunard/before-you-sail/Emergency_Assistance_Disabled

What assistance is offered to disabled customers in an emergency?

 

When booking your voyage, you need to tell us if you have a disability which might mean that you require additional assistance in an emergency situation.

 

Our Disability Team collate this information and ensure that each ship has a list of guests requiring extra assistance, together with their stateroom numbers, before the ship sails. In the event of an emergency and when guests are called to their Muster Stations, all guest cabins are checked and evacuated by the stateroom steward. Any guest who requires assistance getting from their stateroom to the Muster Station will be given the required assistance by the ship’s specially trained Guest Assistance Party.

 

Special evacuation chairs are available on all ships which will be utilised to transport guests down stairs if required. This assistance will be arranged/requested by the stateroom stewards evacuating the staterooms. In the event that a guest is away from their stateroom, either on the open decks or in a public room, at the onset of an emergency, these areas are also checked and evacuated. In this event any guest requiring assistance would be taken directly to their Muster Station by the Guest Assistance Party and a life jacket/s would be provided in the Muster Station. This assistance will be arranged/requested by the crew members assigned to evacuate these areas. Similarly if a guest requiring assistance presents themselves on a stairway at the onset of an emergency, this assistance will be arranged by a Stairway guide. Stairway guides are present on all stairways designated as guest evacuation routes.

 

Please note that in the event of an emergency, guests with restricted mobility will not be able to use the elevators (as with standard worldwide emergency procedures, elevators are not to be used in emergency situations). Please also note that in the event of an emergency, those guests using motorised wheelchairs or scooters will need to be transferred to either a regular wheelchair or evacuation chair. It is not possible for the Guest Assistance Party to transport passengers in motorised wheelchairs or scooters down the stairs, due to the additional weight and the subsequent risk of injury to the guest and members of the Guest Assistance Party in attempting this.

Regards,

John.

 

Hi Bluemarble. Thank you very much for that information! Very helpful information. (I did try searching cunard.com earlier, but was unable to find what you found.) Thanks again, -S.

[glojo]

With respect, that is not quite the question you originally asked:

 

 

Your original question led with the crew's role and, inadvertently I'm sure, gave rise to what has followed. The internet being what it is, even in this haven for reasonable, rational people, the law of unintended consequences is often rapidly applied.

 

To your most recent question, Bluemarble appears to have resolved it.

 

My original question:

 

 

During the lifeboat exercise has anyone knowledge of how the crew deal with\handle disabled passengers that are wheelchair bound and are not on the same deck as the lifeboats?

 

 

Hi Bluemarble,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking the time to answer..

 

Much appreciated

 

[pnhmrk]

Hear hear! A welcome spot of realism at last.

 

Mary

 

Am I too late to add my agreement as well?:confused:

[Salacia]

Good morning Salacia. Let me first assure you that it is I, NomDePlume, responding to your post, and not someone masquerading as me, using an incorrect spelling of my nom-de-plume...

 

Now that we have that straightened out, allow me to address your post directly. What you--and a few others--do not seem to grasp, is that my friend was appalled at the speed at which assumptions were made, calling into question the professionalism of the crew. We, as passengers, have no idea how their training is conducted, when it is held, and what exactly it covers. Whipping up a froth of panic with "well meaning" comments and questions such as have been posted here (have some been removed?) before one even sets foot on board is not helping the situation either. As far as getting to one's muster station in the event of an emergency, that's what the "muster" is for: familiarize oneself with its location and, if one might have a problem getting there in the first place--let alone in an emergency--asking the cabin steward or the stair guides how to do it. If they don't have the answer to your question, they know who to ask. Yes, passengers and crew are on the same boat, but impeding their actions should an emergency occur does no one any service. They are well trained. Over and over again. And, rather than bombard them with questions about the possible evacuation of others less able than we are, it would be far more effective for those who find themselves in that predicament to discuss the various scenarios with the crew during the muster.

 

As for my friend joining this forum, I'll spare you his comments.

 

 

Hi NomDePlume. I'm sorry for the typo in my earlier post, it was unintentional.

 

My appreciation and respect for the training and dedication of the staff has often been mentioned on this forum. I also mentioned earlier in this thread that perhaps the OP's question would be best asked after the Muster Drill.

 

Of course, this is a matter that mostly affects those using mobility devices. However, anyone can be injured during an emergency at sea (furniture moving, ship listing, etc) and any one of us might require help getting to the muster station, so we should all know what to do in such an event. And now, thank's to buemarble's post, we have information straight from Cunard.:)

 

Regards,

Salacia

[pnhmrk]

I could say I have a 'friend' who knows the answer or is an expert in this field but have I?

 

I don't know about your friends but I do know that NonDePlume HAS such friends.

[NomDePlume]

I don't know about your friends but I do know that NonDePlume HAS such friends.

 

Thank you, Nalcolm... aaaaaaaand... cue the cat...

[Salacia]

The first and major clue is in their title, they are guides who stand on the stairways directing passengers to the muster stations. Get it?

 

Just to give credit where credit is due, the role of the stairway guides is more than directing passengers to the muster stations, according to bluemarble's quote from the cunard website:

"Similarly if a guest requiring assistance presents themselves on a stairway at the onset of an emergency, this assistance will be arranged by a Stairway guide. Stairway guides are present on all stairways designated as guest evacuation routes."

[Norfolk Brit]

Thank you, Nalcolm... aaaaaaaand... cue the cat...

 

One is here, MonDePlune.

 

And I have a question, one challenging even my magnificent brain: my understanding of the word 'troll' is someone who posts inflammatory messages in a forum or similar, with the primary intent of provoking others into a response or of otherwise disrupting normal discussion. Your posts on this thread could hardly be described thus, and neither could any of the preceeding 1,882 posts you've made since August 2007.

 

Even more importantly, how does an ex-cat get off in the event of an emergency?

 

Sir Martin