Why? Because it's the LAW.

[Tapi]

By my rough calculation, it's ~630 miles from Progreso to Mobile, meaning if they were ~240 miles from Progreso at that point, they were at least 390 miles from Mobile.

 

240 miles AGAINST the currents would most likely take as long as 390 miles WITH the currents. Have you ever flown anywhere and noticed how the flight westbound takes considerably longer than the flight eastbound? There's more than just distance to determine how long it will take to go from point A to point B.

 

These boards are flooded with people who love to speculate and point fingers without an iota of knowledge about how things really work, and this thread is a perfect example.

[stev5138]

Carnival rolled the dice by putting Triumph in service with known mechanical issues. It came up craps! My guess is that Carnival PR will suffer for some time over this newest issue. I think passenger video will show true conditions whether good or bad and then we can make more informed opinions.

[westview1]

I would guess that there are many peoples from many countries on this ship-- why do you assume all are US citizens ? Any cruise I have been on had many Canadians and also a number of Europeans. The crew members are probably 95% non US citizens.

 

I think the majority of passengers would be American, and I would think that the crew would need all their paperwork (passports, visas etc) in order to work on the cruise ships anyway.

[Aquahound]

I read something along these lines in almost every emergency. I hope Aquahound will address it if he comes back to the thread, since he is USCG...the Coast Guard is on duty ANYWAY. Our taxes are paying for their services whether they are escorting the Triumph or on a regular patrol or sitting at their base onshore. They don't appear to be using any extra resources to escort this ship...maybe a bit of extra fuel? So we taxpayers aren't really paying any more for their services than we would be paying anyway.

 

And honestly, even if we were, oh well. The USCG is, IMHO, one of the most overlooked services in our country. They get nowhere near the credit they deserve for what they do. I will never, ever forget all of the work they did rescuing people after Katrina, including taking pets aboard whenever they could.

 

Thank you :), and yes, you do make a very good point. CGC VIGOROUS was already on patrol. If anything, this is costing less because the cutter is running at only a few knots rather than its normal cruising speed. While they are sticking with Triumph in case of any problems, they will still part from the scene if any other vessels are in distress. This is the USCG...this is what we do. And if nothing else, I'm sure there are at least a couple thousand tax paying U.S. citizens on board Triumph that are finding just a little bit of comfort in knowing that cutter is right there beside them.

[gtalum]

Carnival rolled the dice by putting Triumph in service with known mechanical issues. It came up craps! My guess is that Carnival PR will suffer for some time over this newest issue. I think passenger video will show true conditions whether good or bad and then we can make more informed opinions.

 

I hope PR suffers enough to drive the CCL stock price below $20. :D

[gtalum]

And honestly, even if we were, oh well. The USCG is, IMHO, one of the most overlooked services in our country. They get nowhere near the credit they deserve for what they do. I will never, ever forget all of the work they did rescuing people after Katrina, including taking pets aboard whenever they could.

 

Agreed! USCG rocks, and are seriously under-appreciated.

[Roxymax]

Anyone can sue anyone for anything at any time.

 

 

Could not have said it better myself!!!

[che5904]

I'm sure there are at least a couple thousand tax paying U.S. citizens on board Triumph that are finding just a little bit of comfort in knowing that cutter is right there beside them.

 

I'm going to completely agree with this statement from a similar standpoint. Back in 1998 we had an ice storm that pretty well crippled the eastern part of rural Ontario Canada as well as western Quebec and from my understanding northern NY state. We live in the country and were out of power for many weeks in the middle of January. Our military showed up and went door to door. Even though we personally were pretty self sufficient and didn't require anything we had a feeling of safety knowing they were there. I will always remember the feeling I got when that soldier in his uniform stood at my door.

 

So regardless to whether there is a majority of U.S. citizens aboard or a couple of 1000's. I'm sure the most comforting sight that those U.S. citizens on board seen was the sight of the the USCG.

 

So instead of anyone worrying about whether they should be there or not, IMO it should be a proud moment that they are there. But then again, I'm an outsider looking in.

[Big Feet]

now we're talking --- people making their own points.

 

next to throw this out: dead in the water -- 300 miles from USA-- do the math on day one -- calculations could have been made (where made) of how long this ship would be at sea ---- and without fresh water or toilets -- so we just let the folks suffer-- one or 2 days MORE ---.

 

2 Carnival ships have been by already (surely there have been others close RCI, CeleX). Take 500 passengers onto the first ship and 500 on second-- women and children first and interior cabin people-- beat feet back to port. This is an emergency-- and Maritime law states that by law every vessel in the area is required to aid and assist a vessel in distress.

[sakapfet]

I hope PR suffers enough to drive the CCL stock price below $20. :D

The cruise industry needs to clean up its act, soon:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/opinion/walker-cruise-ships/index.html

[Sargent_Schultz]

Don't single out Carnival - there are reasons why there are NO major cruise lines flagged in the US. None. They went bankrupt or moved on. The US can't even save the flagship named after the country. Corporate and union greed are two of the reasons for it.

 

As for the USCG, not sure why you are mad at them? :confused:

[Sargent_Schultz]

Anyone can sue anyone for anything at any time.

 

and they sue for the stupidest things. Frivolous lawsuits are tossed all the time but do manage to clog the courts and drive costs up.

[zenful6219]

Cost isn't a valid excuse, IMHO.

 

I agree that costs should not be the driving factor in this situation, but it is because dollars and cents are our culture's top priority. We ( U. S. citizens) are programmed to think that way - costs versus human welfare.

 

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

[zenful6219]

Don't single out Carnival - there are reasons why there are NO major cruise lines flagged in the US. None. They went bankrupt or moved on. The US can't even save the flagship named after the country. Corporate and union greed are two of the reasons for it.

 

As for the USCG, not sure why you are mad at them? :confused:

 

Do you work for Carnival because you always jump to their defense, no matter the subject. If you don't, I don't understand your motivation.

 

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

[EastTex]

The whole Mobile vs Progreso thing is still an issue, to me. They initially broke down ~150 miles from Progreso. They drifted 90 miles north before the tugs were ready to tow, meaning they were ~240 miles from Progreso. By my rough calculation, it's ~630 miles from Progreso to Mobile, meaning if they were ~240 miles from Progreso at that point, they were at least 390 miles from Mobile. This doesn't add up with Carnival's claim that triumph was "equidistant" from mobile and Progreso. Couple that with the storm front they've encountered which has slowed them down, and it looks to me that Carnival has extended this by at least a day or two vs what it would have been had they gone to Progreso.

 

 

I'm not a mariner but I spent 20 years flying jets in the Air Force. If currents and ships react the same as winds aloft, it may indeed be quicker to go to a more distant port.

 

In the air, every knot of headwind directly affects groundspeed. So, an aircraft flying at 350 knots with 20 knots of a headwind component has an effective groundspeed of 330 knots. Conversly, 20 knots of a tailwind component would result in an effective groundspeed of 370 knots. Note, there is a 40 knot difference between the two.

 

Suppose, for arguments sake, a ship can only make 7 knots while under tow. If currents were pushing the ship northbound at an effective rate of 3 knots, then the ship would sail at an effective rate of 10 knots. Conversly, if the ship was towed against a 3 knot current, the 7 knot towed speed would be reduced to an effective speed of 4 knots.

 

Using your estimate of distances, 240 nautical miles to Progresso at 4 knots ould take 60 hours. Sailing 390 nautical miles to Mobile at 10 knots, would take 39 hours.

 

Give or take a bit, flying my plane back from Europe to the states always took about an hour more in flight time than going to Europe because winds aloft are generally west to east.

[Big Feet]

Don't single out Carnival - there are reasons why there are NO major cruise lines flagged in the US. None. They went bankrupt or moved on. The US can't even save the flagship named after the country. Corporate and union greed are two of the reasons for it.

 

As for the USCG, not sure why you are mad at them? :confused:

who's mad at the CG???? Didn't see one negitive item about them.

Your point about not being flagged in the US-- several reasons-- first of course it's taxes-- but second ---- they would have to follow US labor laws -- we saw what happened to NCL in HA -- when that ship was flagged there. Then third is under FULL USCG regulations and of course the fourth is taxes!!!!!!

Do you think the other carriers have contingent plans--- hope there better then what we've seen from CCL?

BTW-- did the MIA Heat win last night?

[DebJ14]

Carnival rolled the dice by putting Triumph in service with known mechanical issues. It came up craps! My guess is that Carnival PR will suffer for some time over this newest issue. I think passenger video will show true conditions whether good or bad and then we can make more informed opinions.

 

According to today's Houston Chronicle the propulsion problem was due to a faulty alternator. The problem was deemed to be fixed on Feb. 2 to the satisfaction of the cruise line, the manufacturer of the alternator and an independent third party that inspected the repairs. The article said the fire was unrelated to the previous problem.

 

Until the NTSB report comes out there is no use speculating on the cause of the fire.

 

Yes, the Coast Guard is doing a great job. They had to get within range to send out a helicopter with a generator. As for transfering passengers from one ship to another the CG probably nixed that idea. With the ship unable to anchor due to the depth of the water (looks like they were off of the shelf) and unable to stabilize the ship it would be extremely hazardous to take the passengers off. I have seen many people fall while tendering, even in relatively calm waters.

 

Lesson #1 should be never leave the US without a passport.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Do you work for Carnival because you always jump to their defense, no matter the subject. If you don't, I don't understand your motivation.

 

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

I'll type real s l o w l y.

 

Royal doesn't have any American flagged ships. NCL doesn't either. NCLA has a single ship, US Flagged, and it took an act of Congress (and union approval) for it to be US Flagged, since it didn't otherwise qualify. NCLA has, in effect, a government sanctioned monopoly.

[EastTex]

Do you work for Carnival because you always jump to their defense, no matter the subject. If you don't, I don't understand your motivation.

 

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

For goodness sake, can you give it a rest? I get so tired of accusations on this board about "cheerleaders" and "bashers". Sometimes it seems like we revert to schoolyard taunting if we don't agree with a poster.

[bobnsons]

I wasn't making a point--- I was trying to get others to think on there own.

Let me just mention this: U S Coast Guard--- first 2 letters are the key, U S.

International waters--- help should come from U S Navy!!!!!!

 

 

Good grief, as an old ex-jarhead I've never been a huge fan of the Coasties but I'll give them a lot more credit for being able and qualifed to help out and deal with an emergency.

 

There is not majic line at sea when it comes to an emergency and the U S Coast Guard stay at the ready 24/7.

[Sargent_Schultz]

who's mad at the CG???? Didn't see one negitive item about them.

Your point about not being flagged in the US-- several reasons-- first of course it's taxes-- but second ---- they would have to follow US labor laws -- we saw what happened to NCL in HA -- when that ship was flagged there. Then third is under FULL USCG regulations and of course the fourth is taxes!!!!!!

Do you think the other carriers have contingent plans--- hope there better then what we've seen from CCL?

BTW-- did the MIA Heat win last night?

 

You seem to have a problem with the USCG helping out.

 

USCG is under Homeland Security and oversees port and cruise ship security and safety. They have to approve all plans.

 

If you don't like Carnival plans, then you must not like the USCG, since they are the approval authority.

[gusandgidgetsmom]

I think the assumption is that any non-U.S. citizen would have had to have a passport from their country to enter the U.S. to start their trip so it would be only a U.S. citizen that may potentially not have one.

I would guess that there are many peoples from many countries on this ship-- why do you assume all are US citizens ? Any cruise I have been on had many Canadians and also a number of Europeans. The crew members are probably 95% non US citizens.

[Aquahound]

2 Carnival ships have been by already (surely there have been others close RCI, CeleX). Take 500 passengers onto the first ship and 500 on second-- women and children first and interior cabin people-- beat feet back to port. This is an emergency-- and Maritime law states that by law every vessel in the area is required to aid and assist a vessel in distress.

 

This suggestion has come up several times across all the threads. There are several reasons this can't happen but first and foremost, the ship is always the preferred life boat. If the ship is not in danger of being lost, and lives are not at risk, you keep the people aboard. One, that is the standard practice of mariners and two, that would be the guidance (and order) of the USCG. In the case of a marine casualty, passenger comfort is not number one priority. It's their safety. And being aboard Triumph is the safest option for them right now.

[Mizzouaholic]

Everyone is worried about the 1000 idiots who didn't have passports. What about the 2000 who DID have passports???

 

So people who dont get passports are idiots? The law cearly states that you do not have to have a passport to cruise on a closed loop cruise. But according to you, you have to have a passport. I guess everyone is going to have to give you a call before they cruise next time to see if they have your permission to cruise without a passport.

[DevCruise]

I'll type real s l o w l y.

 

Royal doesn't have any American flagged ships. NCL doesn't either. NCLA has a single ship, US Flagged, and it took an act of Congress (and union approval) for it to be US Flagged, since it didn't otherwise qualify. NCLA has, in effect, a government sanctioned monopoly.

 

It's only a monopoly because nobody, not even NCL is building their ships in American shipyards.