Pride of America, some realities

[DaisyGoldberg]

I truly didn't see any of the "attitude" people report about POA employees. But then I don't enjoy the over the top fawning that some cruise staff do to ingratiate themselves. Efficient, cheerful -- great qualities in service positions. Beyond that I get uncomfortable.

 

I thought the POA staff hit just the right note.

[queenschick9b]

We were on Pride of America when all three pride ships were sailing (so a long time ago). When we went it wasn't that the crew had a bad attitude it was that the ship was completely understaffed. We were hanging out with one of the cruise director staff people and he told us it was just really hard to keep the staff. We would go to the dining room and there would be an hour wait, but there were entire outer rings of empty tables because there were no waiters to serve them.

 

The trip itself was amazing and I can't imagine doing Hawaii for the first time any other way, but I would describe the ship experience as frustrating.

Edited March 1, 2013 by queenschick9b

[spacepotatoes]

This has been an interesting thread. We sailed the Pride of America in 2009, which was the year that things started to turn around for the positive. We loved our cruise, but since it was our first, we had nothing to compare it to at the time. Having been on several more cruises since then, there was a notable difference in the service between POA and other ships. It wasn't bad on the Pride of America but the crew were definitely not as warm and friendly as we've experienced on the Sky and on HAL. They were still pleasant, just not quite the same. The only time we ever encountered arrogance or condescension was actually from the officers. Haven't seen anything like it on the other ships we've sailed.

[jdvmd]

Very interesting information. Thanks for posting, OP.

[cr8tiv1]

Thank you very much for bringing to the front, the back of the house details. I cruised the Pride of America in 2006.

 

If NCL is truly an America product, then I would really like to see a cruise from the mainland to Hawaii with a stop on one of the islands first. I really miss the Matson transits and would rather cruise over than fly to the islands. Please suggest that they do a one way cruise. I am sure there would be enough passengers feeling the same way. Also, islanders would be happy to have an alternative way to get off the island. How about a Kama`aina rate too?

 

Renee (displace local girl)

[Ilovesailing]

We have been on POH once and POA three times, each cruise has been a b2b we've spent 8 weeks on the US flagged ships. We also spend a week in Hawaii before each cruise.

When we were on POH it was the last two weeks that it was in Hawaiian waters, while we did notice lack of staff due to people being relocated to other ships (there were 3 ships doing this cruise at that time) or let go we never experienced any negatives, this goes for our time on POA as well.

We have noticed improvement in staff moral from cruise to cruise because NCLA has been bringing on more International crew who are setting examples for the American crew and showing them the short cuts and how to get the job done easier and quicker. NCLA is doing this by offering the International staff incentives such as shorter contracts etc.

 

I totally agree that folks have to understand that the work ethic is much different than other ships and a large part has to do with union, hours and days that staff are allowed to work.

So I agree with what chengkp75 has posted.

This cruise/ship gets a bad rap because people don't realize the things that have been mentioned here. No casino means lost revenue big time, American staff/union means higher wages therefore your going to pay more up front for this cruise.

Bottom line is treat this cruise as a hotel and restaurant, lower your standards by 10% and you'll have an amazing cruise. Remember that the food on board is pretty well the same as the other ships as the menu's come from Miami for all ships plus you'll get the added pleasure of some national dishes but NCLA is pay US prices for just about everything.

 

Also Hawaii land vacations are very expensive, especially if you don't have a fully contained suite to cook in. Milk as an example will cost you at least $6 a quart.

The number one selling food item for the nationals is Spam, even Mc Donald's sells some version of it and y'll even find food trucks cooking it up. Pineapples can cost as much as $10 each and I've been buying them in Toronto for $1.77 all this week, they are from Costa Rico and there fresh, crisp, juicy and extremely flavorful, rarely do I have to pay more than $3 dollars and even get Dole from time to time but they too are now mostly produced in Costa Rico.

Tourism is the number one industry for Hawaii. Long gone are the large plantations of pineapple and sugar cane, why because union's drove up labor prices.

 

Can't wait to do this cruise again!

 

One tip is to book this cruise at least a year out and just watch the price increase anywhere from $500 to $800 pp just as we experienced every time.NCLA is the only house in town doing this cruise itinerary and is rarely discounted and most often sells out before final payment, It's the best bang for your buck to see and experience five islands.

[Ilovesailing]

Thank you very much for bringing to the front, the back of the house details. I cruised the Pride of America in 2006.

 

If NCL is truly an America product, then I would really like to see a cruise from the mainland to Hawaii with a stop on one of the islands first. I really miss the Matson transits and would rather cruise over than fly to the islands. Please suggest that they do a one way cruise. I am sure there would be enough passengers feeling the same way. Also, islanders would be happy to have an alternative way to get off the island. How about a Kama`aina rate too?

 

Renee (displace local girl)

 

Please explain your comment re Matson transits, I know they have a beautiful large historical building near the pier and that they are probably the largest shipping company.

[Ilovesailing]

Please explain your comment re Matson transits, I know they have a beautiful large historical building near the pier and that they are probably the largest shipping company.

 

 

 

I forgot to attach a pic of their office

[Ilovesailing]

I forgot to attach a pic of their office

 

Oops here it is.

[kayjo]

I was on the Feb. 16, 2013 sailing and had a great time! I found all of the staff we encountered to be friendly, helpful and accommodating. I was a little worried about the negative comments about this cruise, but I wonder if the people who have a great time do not bother to come back and write a review or add comments to this board? Any problem we had was handled quickly and I felt like the cruise director was very visible and engaging. We ate in all of the specialty restaurants and in each one the waitstaff and hostesses came around and asked how we enjoyed our experience. It was nice to see their hometowns on their name badges and talk to them about where they were from, how long they had been on board, where they went to college and where they liked to vacation. Since the ship was getting ready to go into drydock, a lot of the staff were signing off soon, and several were going to go on cruises themselves as passengers. I have sailed on 4 other cruiselines, and I enjoyed things about those that were maybe missing from the POA, but overall, they did a great job, and since it was my first trip to Hawaii, it was a great way to see a lot of it. Also, with the two overnight ports, I never felt rushed to get back to the ship.

[jlat]

The POA was our very first NCL cruise. I must say it was one of the best. We did have a problem with our cabin steward actually getting into an argument with my wife. We had her replaced on the second day with someone else and never had another problem. In fact we hung out with some of the crew at the beach in front of Marriott in Kauai when we stopped there. We had beers, swam and played volleyball all afternoon. We are good friends with the dad of one of their chefs and he echoed a lot of what the OP said. Every ship has good crew and bad crew. The POA is a fine ship and is well run. It is the best way to see a cross section of Hawaii and enjoy the perks of being on a cruise boat.

[Linda the Book Lover]

I looked at this cruise several times since we had such a good time on the "Wind" and thought it would be fun to sail Hawaii again instead of the usual land vacation. I have to admit I would absolutely love even a twice a year NCL Hawaii cruise from the west coast! Now that would be a temptation hard to turn down! Quick NCL make that happen before I with DH for Alaska and we can book while we are on the Pearl!:D

[Ilovesailing]

I was on the Feb. 16, 2013 sailing and had a great time! I found all of the staff we encountered to be friendly, helpful and accommodating. I was a little worried about the negative comments about this cruise, but I wonder if the people who have a great time do not bother to come back and write a review or add comments to this board? Any problem we had was handled quickly and I felt like the cruise director was very visible and engaging. We ate in all of the specialty restaurants and in each one the waitstaff and hostesses came around and asked how we enjoyed our experience. It was nice to see their hometowns on their name badges and talk to them about where they were from, how long they had been on board, where they went to college and where they liked to vacation. Since the ship was getting ready to go into drydock, a lot of the staff were signing off soon, and several were going to go on cruises themselves as passengers. I have sailed on 4 other cruiselines, and I enjoyed things about those that were maybe missing from the POA, but overall, they did a great job, and since it was my first trip to Hawaii, it was a great way to see a lot of it. Also, with the two overnight ports, I never felt rushed to get back to the ship.

 

 

I think some people that are spending big bucks only remember the negatives when reading reviews.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Ilovesailing
wording

[chengkp75]

We have noticed improvement in staff moral from cruise to cruise because NCLA has been bringing on more International crew who are setting examples for the American crew and showing them the short cuts and how to get the job done easier and quicker. NCLA is doing this by offering the International staff incentives such as shorter contracts etc.

 

The international crew on the PoA is just another example of what NCL had to go through to make the ship competetive. As I've said, on a US flag ship all the crewmembers must be USCG credentialled mariners. This means the deck and engine officers (licensed officers) must be US citizens, but this amounts to only about 20 or so officers. The remainder of the 1000 or so crew and staff are "unlicensed crew" to the USCG (even hotel staff, regardless of the number of stripes they wear). Unlicensed crew must be US residents (75% must be US citizens, and 25% may be resident aliens with "green cards"). The credentialling process involves a full FBI background check.

 

In the early days, if a waiter returned for a second contract (having only 4 months experience onboard) he/she was promoted to maitre d' to supervise a restaurant as there were no experienced supervisors.

 

Because of the poor performance of the hotel staff in the early days, and the lack of experienced cruise ship supervisors in the US, NCL went to congress and requested special legislation to allow the USCG to issue mariner's credentials to people who were not resident aliens in the US. This was done over the objection of the USCG, because their regulations would require them to perform background checks on people who lived in foreign countries, which is nearly impossible.

 

The NRAC's (Non-Resident Alien Crew) had to have worked for NCL for a period of 10 years, and NCL had to sponsor them as if they were applying for residency, with all the legal requirements implied. The NRAC's get paid the same as the US crew (which is a huge raise for them), but they are subject to US federal taxes, Hawaiian state taxes, and Social Security taxes being withheld from their pay, even though they do not live in the US, and receive no benefit from these taxes. Their contracts are 4 months long, like the US crew, not the 10 months that is standard in the international fleet.

 

I'm glad to hear that the NRAC's have helped to make the US crew better, and I'm heartened by all the positive comments in this thread. My hope is that the need for the NRAC's will diminish and these jobs will return to US citizens in the future. While it would be great to see the US flag cruise fleet expand, I am a realist, and I know that the PoA is a unique situation, where a US flag ship is the only way to offer a 7 day cruise in Hawaii. There is no other place in the US where cruise ships operate, where the companies cannot make a foreign port call and get around the Passenger Services Act and use a foreign flag vessel. And as long as Americans are willing to cruise on these foreign flag vessels, there will be no economic pressure on the cruise lines to reflag.

 

One poster over on the Carnival forum was complaining that you signed away all your rights when you went Carnival (they claim the right to search his safe without notice), and I pointed out that a foreign flag cruise ship is considered foreign soil, and you are subject to the flag state's laws, not US law, as soon as you walk up the gangway.

 

Regarding Matson lines, they operated passenger vessels from the West Coast to the islands up until the mid 70's. That kind of crossing will never happen with NCL. For the PoA, it would not be economically competetive, as the other cruise lines offer their 14-15 day west coast departures at nearly the same price as the PoA charges for 7 days. And NCL would never put a foreign flag ship on a west coast departure schedule to compete with their own ship. Afraid the only NCL transits will be the repo cruises to/from Alaska.

[clarkg]

We loved the Pride of America, we took our daughter as a college graduation present to her. It was a wonderful cruise with friendly staff. I would not hesitate to do it again and again.

[janice2348]

We chose the POA after much research for our first Hawaiian cruise. I have read many negative comments on these boards but I am glad to see this thread. Yes a cruise on rccl is the same price but I can do without the sea days. I have been in the customer service field for over 20 years and know all too well about people thinking they are entitled. I think if we adjust our expectations a bit we will have a great time. Mutual respect is key. Seeing the islands is the whole point for us. My husband loved all the fawning on our last cruise- it gave me the willies. Thank you so much for providing this opportunity for us. :D

[flcruiser1969]

I have not sailed on the ship in question so I am only commenting on your post. I am all for keeping things local and wish more peopel did (for whatever coutntry they are from). However, the cruise staff are not sentenced to work the cruise ship. If they feel they are paid far too little and work way to hard then possibly they should seek other options. This is the US. People pay good money to be on vacation and should get good customer service. I am appauled that we tolerate such attitude from workers anywhere. The more we allow poor service and bad attitudes the worse they will end up.

[chengkp75]

I have not sailed on the ship in question so I am only commenting on your post. I am all for keeping things local and wish more peopel did (for whatever coutntry they are from). However, the cruise staff are not sentenced to work the cruise ship. If they feel they are paid far too little and work way to hard then possibly they should seek other options. This is the US. People pay good money to be on vacation and should get good customer service. I am appauled that we tolerate such attitude from workers anywhere. The more we allow poor service and bad attitudes the worse they will end up.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. However, the high turn-over this causes exasperates the service problem. While I agree that you should expect good customer service for your well earned money, you only need to go to 90% of stores and restaurants (even those "high end" ones) to see what US workers think "good" customer service is all about. I am just pointing out that there is a great cultural difference between the international crew and the US crew, and that the attitudes of passengers towards these crews need to take these differences into account. It's hard to find people who want to provide good service to others, when they are being paid at or below the poverty level.

 

Again, supply and demand. If you raise wages to the point where US flag ships can attract people who are trained in customer service, and care about the customer's vacation, that will raise the cruise price, and the ship will not be competitive, and the jobs will be lost, and so on in a vicious cycle.

[CactusFlower527]

I truly didn't see any of the "attitude" people report about POA employees. But then I don't enjoy the over the top fawning that some cruise staff do to ingratiate themselves. Efficient, cheerful -- great qualities in service positions. Beyond that I get uncomfortable.

 

I thought the POA staff hit just the right note.

 

agreed. I want people to be polite, but I don't need to be catered too.. I am cruising on POA in May 2014.. and having relatives that have sailed on it in the past, they loved it.:D I am basically using the ship as a floating hotel and restaurant.. but I am really there to see the Islands. I also appreciate the POA being an American flagged shipped, doesn't require a US passport (which I don't have at present).

[BillNY]

I'm excited to be sailing on POA this August. Thanks to the OP and all who responded for some excellent information and perspective.

There was a lot of discussion here regarding the "attitude" of the American crew on POA. I can imagine how difficult it is for NCL to find American crew; the dearth of Americans working on any cruise ships shows that most of these jobs do not appeal to Americans. While I do agree to some extent that our youth today have a sense of entitlement when it comes to type of employment, I also have to speculate about the attitude of passengers on cruise ships. You know the type: expecting to be treated like the king and queen of England while looking down their noses in a condescending way at "the help", barking orders at the staff. Perhaps American workers are less likely to accept that type of treatment than crew members from other countries, and this gets branded as being "rude" or "arrogant".

[sdmike]

I hate to be the dissenting view here, becauase I really AM a fan of NCL, and I truly appreciate the information the OP provided.

 

Our economy is international, and protectionist US laws make it difficult for the US to compete in many different industries and locations. While most here have very positive things to say about the POA, my mother-in-law swore off cruising after her POA trip until I convinced her to try the Jewel in Alaska this past year. The hiring, wage and certification requirements for the POA make it difficult for her to compete against any other ship that sails in our global oceans. While the cost of food and fuel will likely always result in a price premium for the POA versus Caribbean cruises out of the US, I will tell you that fuel and food in many European ports is also very expensive. Personally, I think the US needs to rethink many of these restrictions place on NCL/POA or risk losing the last remaining US-centric large ship. I wouldn't blame NCL a bit if they shut her down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like supporting local businesses...within reason. I tend to buy local and shop at smaller retailers instead of the Walmarts of the world. However, when the product quality is significantly lower, and the price significantly higher, it's darned hard to do this (example, the POA). Here's hoping that changes happen.

[Seanote]

I hate to be the dissenting view here, becauase I really AM a fan of NCL, and I truly appreciate the information the OP provided.

 

Our economy is international, and protectionist US laws make it difficult for the US to compete in many different industries and locations. While most here have very positive things to say about the POA, my mother-in-law swore off cruising after her POA trip until I convinced her to try the Jewel in Alaska this past year. The hiring, wage and certification requirements for the POA make it difficult for her to compete against any other ship that sails in our global oceans. While the cost of food and fuel will likely always result in a price premium for the POA versus Caribbean cruises out of the US, I will tell you that fuel and food in many European ports is also very expensive. Personally, I think the US needs to rethink many of these restrictions place on NCL/POA or risk losing the last remaining US-centric large ship. I wouldn't blame NCL a bit if they shut her down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like supporting local businesses...within reason. I tend to buy local and shop at smaller retailers instead of the Walmarts of the world. However, when the product quality is significantly lower, and the price significantly higher, it's darned hard to do this (example, the POA). Here's hoping that changes happen.

 

NCL is currently making a killing in Hawaii. When we sailed the POA in 2011, we paid around $2600 for two in an aft balcony. Current balcony pricing is $2000 to $2800 PER PERSON. Pricing that same aft balcony for next year is $5500!

 

I don't think NCL is planning on shutting this operation any time soon. In fact there has been rumor and conjecture that NCL may move a second ship back to Hawaii.

 

FWIW, the American crew was different from the international crew. But it wasn't bad or poor service. It just wasn't the subservient ma'am / sir service you get from the international crew. The Americans were a chatty bunch and provided the service seen in any American resort.

 

Would love to do it again, but it will most likely be a land based Hawaii trip as it is now much more affordable than sailing the POA.

[sdmike]

Would love to do it again, but it will most likely be a land based Hawaii trip as it is now much more affordable than sailing the POA.

 

Very key point here.

 

We've been to hawaii three times - Maui, Kauai and the Big Island. We've spend a week, not just a day, on each. I know there's value to seeing all the islands in one trip, but I can assure you that for our family of 5, the wonderful resorts and home's we've stayed at cost a fraction of a POA cruise.

[chengkp75]

NCL is currently making a killing in Hawaii. When we sailed the POA in 2011, we paid around $2600 for two in an aft balcony. Current balcony pricing is $2000 to $2800 PER PERSON. Pricing that same aft balcony for next year is $5500!

 

I don't think NCL is planning on shutting this operation any time soon. In fact there has been rumor and conjecture that NCL may move a second ship back to Hawaii.

 

FWIW, the American crew was different from the international crew. But it wasn't bad or poor service. It just wasn't the subservient ma'am / sir service you get from the international crew. The Americans were a chatty bunch and provided the service seen in any American resort.

 

Would love to do it again, but it will most likely be a land based Hawaii trip as it is now much more affordable than sailing the POA.

 

I've been away from NCL for 5 years now, so I am a little rusty on the exact economics, but let me point out that I don't believe NCL is making a killing on the POA. When the Norwegian Sky was sailing from PR to the Caribbean, a typical balcony cabin was $600-700 for a week. Move the same ship to Hawaii, flag it US, and the cabin price goes to $2000-2400 (this was the price back in 2004, so there has been little or no price increase in 9 years). And yet, the last year that NCL had 3 US flag ships in Hawaii, they lost $174 million, just on the US flag operation. Check the price that other cruise lines charge for their 14 day cruises from the West Coast to Hawaii. Nearly what NCL charges for 7 days. Don't you think that NCL would lower prices if they could to keep the competition out? During the first two years of the US flag operation, they had no competition, but when the other lines started sailing from the West Coast, cabin prices dropped dramatically, causing the loss in revenues.

 

A large part of the price increase for NCL will be due to the requirement that went into effect last year that requires ships operating in the US Emissions Control Area (200 miles from any coast, including around the Hawaiian Islands) to burn fuel with a significantly reduced sulfur content. Current world standard allows ships to burn 3.5% sulfur fuel, but the US ECA requirements is for 1% sulfur fuel. This fuel is more expensive than the 3.5% sulfur fuel. And in 2015, the requirement goes to 0.1% sulfur, which effectively eliminates the traditional heavy fuel oil that the ships burn, in favor of marine diesel oil. MDO is nearly 3 times as expensive as the heavy fuel, so the fuel portion of the cruise ticket price will go up accordingly. Why is this affecting the NCL Hawaiian ship so much more than anyone else? She sails exclusively in the US ECA, so will be on the expensive fuel 100% of the time. Cruises commencing from the West Coast must be on low sulfur fuel until 200 miles off the coast, then they can switch back to the cheaper fuel, until they approach the Hawaiian Islands, when they will switch back to low sulfur fuel. This means that nearly 2/3 to 3/4 of their fuel can be the cheaper high sulfur fuel.

 

I still have friends working on the POA, and I haven't heard any rumors to the effect of bringing another ship back to Hawaii. That's not to say it won't happen, but with the cost of reflagging, crew cost, and the pressure on cabin prices from the international ships from the West Coast, I don't believe it will happen. Even the POA will remain right where she is, up until the time NCL pulls the plug on US flag operations completely, due to the financing legislation that happened in order to get her into the trade in the first place.

 

Of course, as others have said, with "poor" service and high prices, people will vote with their pocketbooks, and go elsewhere. This is the problem that NCL has faced since the beginning.

[Zeno]

I can only comment about our experience on the POA in Sept 2012. I found nothing major to complain about. The crew were friendly and helpful. Frankly it was no worse and no better than the experience I have had on internationally crewed ships - which is to say overall - pretty good.