Sorry ! Tipping Query....

[Merion_Mom]

Thanks for having me

As your post count testifies, you too must have spent many, many, many days perusing this message board.

As Oscar Wilde so eloquently noted, sarcasm is indeed the lowest form of wit and the highest of intelligence.

I wonder what he would have made of this tipping issue.

 

I was attempting to be kind.

 

I was attempting to educate you in using a board to which you are new.

 

I would like you to understand that this topic has been covered ad nauseam, and there is NOTHING that you could write or that could be in the responses of others that you could not read in previously published threads.

 

Save yourself and us the trouble of yet ANOTHER tipping thread.

[CharlesSilver]

All of the above replies are honest.

 

I am not sure what fellow passengers suggested that you remove the daily tips added to your seapass. [was this more than one person? Were they upset with the service? Did the guest services ask you if you were disappointed in the service you received? That appears to be the norm.

 

You say you wanted to assign the tips according to the benefits your party received from each staff member. Did you distribute the sum you removed from your account to the various staff? [even if they were not in the same proportion that RCL would suggest] If not --I am not buying you did not know better.

 

If RCL did not add the tips to the Seapass card and you did not pay--I MIGHT believe a novice could not know better. But, to remove something that is automatically added means you KNOW it is customary. [or it would not be added automatically]

 

Ahahaha - do you really think I would have made the original post to walk into all these "you should have known better" type responses?

It's a pathetic (American) policy, as many of you have made quite clear.

I'll know for next time, although I will pay in cash direct to the staff.

[BeachChik]

Ahahaha - do you really think I would have made the original post to walk into all these "you should have known better" type responses?

It's a pathetic (American) policy, as many of you have made quite clear.

I'll know for next time, although I will pay in cash direct to the staff.

 

It's not any different then going somewhere where tipping is a no no. I spent ten days in Tahiti where they consider it insulting to be given tips. Should I have given it anyway? Or told them it was a pathetic policy? No. Because when you travel you have to adjust to whatever the cultural norm is for where you are visiting. It's part of traveling.

[Dorset Cruiser]

I was attempting to be kind.

 

I was attempting to educate you in using a board to which you are new.

 

I would like you to understand that this topic has been covered ad nauseam, and there is NOTHING that you could write or that could be in the responses of others that you could not read in previously published threads.

 

Save yourself and us the trouble of yet ANOTHER tipping thread.

 

No you were not!

 

All YOU had to do was ignore and move on. Instead YOU chose to contribute to yet ANOTHER tipping thread.

[CharlesSilver]

It's not any different then going somewhere where tipping is a no no. I spent ten days in Tahiti where they consider it insulting to be given tips. Should I have given it anyway? Or told them it was a pathetic policy? No. Because when you travel you have to adjust to whatever the cultural norm is for where you are visiting. It's part of traveling.

 

It's actually completely different and your analogy completely flawed.

If there's nothing EXTRA to pay, no grey area exists, whereas if there is and it's not clear to whom then that's clearly potentially confusing to someone unaware of the conventions, whether or not those conventions are established or otherwise.

Anyway, dont wish to go round in circles so thanks for sharing.

[Yillup]

It's not any different then going somewhere where tipping is a no no. I spent ten days in Tahiti where they consider it insulting to be given tips. Should I have given it anyway? Or told them it was a pathetic policy? No. Because when you travel you have to adjust to whatever the cultural norm is for where you are visiting. It's part of traveling.

 

The only problem is, that the OP didn't travel to America. They traveled in Europe on a cruise marketed to UK and other European countries. I'm sure in America the OP would tip, but it's not obvious that a cruise ship departing a European country and only visiting European countries would be considered a part of America. People from countries that do not have a tipping culture naturally assume that people are paid by their employer, not their customer. A tip is extra, a bonus for good service. If Royal Caribbean let people from these countries KNOW how much they are stiffing their staff, maybe people would be more likely to keep the auto gratuities on their account.

 

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[killtheump]

Thanks for having me

As your post count testifies, you too must have spent many, many, many days perusing this message board.

As Oscar Wilde so eloquently noted, sarcasm is indeed the lowest form of wit and the highest of intelligence.

I wonder what he would have made of this tipping issue.

 

I guess no sarcasm coming from you?

[BeachChik]

It's actually completely different and your analogy completely flawed.

If there's nothing EXTRA to pay, no grey area exists, whereas if there is and it's not clear to whom then that's clearly potentially confusing to someone unaware of the conventions, whether or not those conventions are established or otherwise.

Anyway, dont wish to go round in circles so thanks for sharing.

 

It's not flawed. The point was MOST people do research when they travel and follow the customs of where ever they are going.

 

You are free to do as you wish but I find it a little hard to believe that you saw the charge added to your account and went down to customer service to have it removed yet claim you didn't know it was standard.

 

It always surprises me that people will spend thousands on a vacation yet complain about a $12 per day charge.

[DragonOfTheSeas]

Ahahaha - do you really think I would have made the original post to walk into all these "you should have known better" type responses?

 

It's a pathetic (American) policy, as many of you have made quite clear.

 

Tipping is not unique to the US. It has been expected and I have paid tips in many countries.

 

I agree it would be better to call it a service fee and add it in to the cruise fare.

 

In response to your first question--no, I do not think you wanted to walk into all these comments.

 

I believe now that you are home you are feeling guilty for not paying gratuities to some of the staff. You thought you might find a few people on Cruise Critic to agree that RCL needs to be clearer regarding tips to justify your actions.

 

PS--I have been researching European river cruising. I see that they expect the passengers to pay gratuities, although several of these are Non-US companies sailing on European rivers. [the few that include the gratuities advertise this extensively]

[CharlesSilver]

It's not flawed. The point was MOST people do research when they travel and follow the customs of where ever they are going.

 

You are free to do as you wish but I find it a little hard to believe that you saw the charge added to your account and went down to customer service to have it removed yet claim you didn't know it was standard.

 

It always surprises me that people will spend thousands on a vacation yet complain about a $12 per day charge.

 

Erm, you're now cherry picking and decontextualising my posts.

That's unnecessary.

I think you've grasped, if not agreed with my points, as I said we'd be better off leaving it there.

[BeachChik]

I guess no sarcasm coming from you?

 

I was thinking the same thing.

[caribbean sailor]

I totally agree that it would be better if the cruise line were to simply include the cost of tips in the cruise plan. That, however, will not happen because it would make the price appear higher.

 

Until this changes, trying to alter the system they've put in place only results in injury to the hard-working staff.

 

The fact is the price is higher.They raise the gratuities on us,and they continue to pay the staff fifty dollars a month.Maybe they should pay staff more.I don't like the forced gratuities,and may remove them on my January cruise. :mad:

[Merion_Mom]

No you were not!

 

All YOU had to do was ignore and move on. Instead YOU chose to contribute to yet ANOTHER tipping thread.

 

Yes, I was.

 

But thank you for telling me what I was doing. If only I had asked you first.....

 

I am a teacher, and a mother. In both of those capacities, it is in our nature to try to help, and to try to ameliorate situations.

 

I was, in fact, doing both.

 

But you can only LEAD a horse to water.

[hellsop]

Because they work off the US system which says service positions get tipped. It's not any different then dining at a US restaurant. The servers work for tips.

 

Agree or not, this is the system cruise lines have adopted and they add them to your account for convenience. Yes you can remove them as you did, but I don't see why anyone would. The cost of tips is such a tiny amount of money vs the cost of the cruise. And for the most part the staff does a great job.

 

It's more that tipping is a relic (even in the US) of a 200-year-old pattern of expectation established in Europe. People staying overnight used to give gifts of money to their hosts servants, and the custom spread to commercial hotels and restaurants, and slowly invade the US (against no small amount of resistance) during the late 1800s. Cruise lines follow the European pattern established during the "grand era" of ocean liner travel, which was dominated by European lines and practices. Then, about 1950 (and notably after the start of the ocean liner fading as a means of straight-up transportation and shifting into a luxury/holiday thing), Europe gave it all up over a period of about a decade, mostly at a lot of legal impetus and egalitarianism... Laws were passed establishing service charges permitted in some countries, others simply swallowed the increase wages to keep pace with the places they were closely connected to, and the necessity of tips to keep employees paid slipped by the wayside. Maybe things will catch up to that in the US, but I wouldn't expect it to happen Real Soon Now. There's an excellent article on the matter here.

[killtheump]

Yes, I was.

 

But thank you for telling me what I was doing. If only I had asked you first.....

 

I am a teacher, and a mother. In both of those capacities, it is in our nature to try to help, and to try to ameliorate situations.

 

I was, in fact, doing both.

 

But you can only LEAD a horse to water.

 

Merion Mom as a teacher you already know that you can only teach someone who wants to listen & learn. This thread is impossible to teach someone who does not want to listen to anything other than their own view. Ask a question get answers you don't like so everyone else is wrong but me. Oh well.

Keep up the good work in the classroom & on these boards.

[Scotty G]

People from countries that do not have a tipping culture naturally assume that people are paid by their employer, not their customer. A tip is extra, a bonus for good service. If Royal Caribbean let people from these countries KNOW how much they are stiffing their staff, maybe people would be more likely to keep the auto gratuities on their account.

 

Here is info direct from the UK RCI website -

 

 

Also

Please note gratuities are discretionary so in the unlikely event that a guest onboard being charged the daily automatic gratuity does not receive satisfactory service, you may request to modify (increase, decrease or remove) the daily amount by visiting Guest Services during your cruise.

 

Gratuities are payable in US dollars on board. If you pre-pay you don't have to take extra cash onboard, or additional foreign currency'>Paying gratuities on your cruise

If you have not pre-paid your tips/service charges, for your convenience, we will automatically add a $12.00 per guest per day service charge to each guest's SeaPass account. For Grand Suites and above the daily charge is $14.25. Alternatively, you may pay in cash at the end of your cruise directly to the crew members you wish to recognise for their service (If you require an envelope for the crew member concerned, please see the Guest Relations Desk).

 

Also

Please note gratuities are discretionary so in the unlikely event that a guest onboard being charged the daily automatic gratuity does not receive satisfactory service, you may request to modify (increase, decrease or remove) the daily amount by visiting Guest Services during your cruise.

 

Gratuities are payable in US dollars on board. If you pre-pay you don't have to take extra cash onboard, or additional foreign currency

[Nebr.cruiser]

I'm not disputing the staff work extremely hard, just questioning why the guests and not their employers are :cool:

 

While I agree that it would be simpler and clearer to just charge more for the cruise in the first place, pay their employees more and be non-tipping, doesn't it all work out he same in the long run?

 

I mean, either the $12 or so tip is a daily charge, like now, or you pay it anyway only it's not called a 'tip', 'gratuity' or 'service charge'; it's just a higher price.

 

Unless you remove the daily charge, you would be paying the exact same amount. It's the same with, say, eating out in the UK. Most meals there cost a bit more than here, but tipping isn't often expected. So, $20 meal plus 20% tip in US=$24. Same meal in UK may be $24 (equivalent in pounds) with no tip. So what's the difference except semantics?

 

And yes, I agree that it is a cultural thing. And, I think there are some advantages to the cruise line, financially, (taxes?) in paying the crew this way.

[jwm51]

It always surprises me that people will spend thousands on a vacation yet complain about a $12 per day charge.

 

I've said this so many times, I've lost count!!!:p

 

OP HAS to pay the 15% so he can drink, but doesn't want to pay $12 a day to clean up after him or serve him his food???:eek:

[Ifoundmydream]

The only problem is, that the OP didn't travel to America. They traveled in Europe on a cruise marketed to UK and other European countries. I'm sure in America the OP would tip, but it's not obvious that a cruise ship departing a European country and only visiting European countries would be considered a part of America. People from countries that do not have a tipping culture naturally assume that people are paid by their employer, not their customer. A tip is extra, a bonus for good service. If Royal Caribbean let people from these countries KNOW how much they are stiffing their staff, maybe people would be more likely to keep the auto gratuities on their account.

 

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Forums mobile app

 

Well explained. Whilst some cultures may find it offensive to not pay the gratuities, I find it offensive that employers expect their staff to rely on gratuities. I don't know what the law is, but I find it appalling that a ship sails around Europe marketing cruises for one price and expecting travellers to make up salaries so the company doesn't need to pay so much.mAs yes you are right, I would tip more in countries where tipping was a normal part of life. It is a cultural thing.

 

The only reason I will pay these gratuities up front is so that I can choose my time dining, and even then I'm uneasy about it and I'm sure I could get them removes if I so wish. I am not stiffing, I am not np being mean, but I prefer to pay a different way, and i will carry on doing so, as is my wish.

[Newtoncruise]

In my view e OP knew exactly what he was doing. He is very intelligent and eloquent. That can be seen from the nature of his writing.

 

He just got himself a much cheaper cruise than the rest of the guests who paid their tips. He broke no actual rules!

 

Unfortunately his morals do not seem to match his eloquence........there lies the issue.

 

He does make lots of very good points though and I do think it's time that the cruise industry changed their methods of charging and marketing......

 

I am interested to hear more about the conversations about removing the tips that were referred to in the OP. How many people were doing it and how they were justifying their actions?

 

Which cruise were you on Charlesilver?

[CharlesSilver]

Not sure why you feel the need to deconstruct or paraphrase my posts, or why you're consistently challenging my motives.

I'm grateful for the constructive replies to my post, for the record, I didn't withdraw the tips, nor "stiff" anyone - not that I need to justify this, I chose to allocate and distribute as I felt appropriate.

 

RCI need to seriously rethink this policy or else make it patently obvious to their customers where, why and how these so called "tips" are allocated.

[macruisefan]

I'm scratching my head here why a company like Royal Caribbean can't build into the holiday price the appropriate overhead to cover their staff costs, so good service (which I most certainly received) can be rewarded with additional tips from their guests.

Am I missing something here?

 

If only there were some way, before embarking on holiday, of doing a modest amount of research to understand the culture and practices into which one is about to be immersed. I'm not talking having to go to the library or anything. But maybe some day, we can connect the world electronically, computer to computer.... in order to for some sort of "web".

 

Until then, I guess we'll just have to continue to allow our friends across the pond to bash our culture and lean on their "misunderstanding" as an excuse for skipping out on tips...

[Ifoundmydream]

If only there were some way, before embarking on holiday, of doing a modest amount of research to understand the culture and practices into which one is about to be immersed. I'm not talking having to go to the library or anything. But maybe some day, we can connect the world electronically, computer to computer.... in order to for some sort of "web".

 

Until then, I guess we'll just have to continue to allow our friends across the pond to bash our culture and lean on their "misunderstanding" as an excuse for skipping out on tips...

 

I think you have a point. I would certainly tip in the way Americans do if I were on an American port cruise. as this time it will be a European cruise, I will tip the way i would in Europe.

[SamFritz]

As someone who works for tips, I would NOT want my company to replace our tipping policy with a "fair wage". While on a day to day basis it may be a "tipping lottery", over time the best workers will be most highly rewarded. If a few ignorant people fail to recognize the system, I still come out ahead.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, please excuse all the typos.

[SamFritz]

If only there were some way, before embarking on holiday, of doing a modest amount of research to understand the culture and practices into which one is about to be immersed. I'm not talking having to go to the library or anything. But maybe some day, we can connect the world electronically, computer to computer.... in order to for some sort of "web".

 

Until then, I guess we'll just have to continue to allow our friends across the pond to bash our culture and lean on their "misunderstanding" as an excuse for skipping out on tips...

 

Where's the "LIKE" button? A great morning laugh!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, please excuse all the typos.