Why no life guards??

[Swampbabe]

nevermind.

 

Interesting, why the never mind? I've been reading all of these responses about lifeguards from people that don't really understand how it works. Not saying that its a bad idea at all but there are some practical considerations that haven't been addressed, although some PP have mentioned the need to have life guards elevated so that they can see the bottom.

 

You can't have just one lifeguard per pool, you have to rotate to get "fresh" eyes. In addition, one of the jobs of a lifeguard is to help control the number of patrons in the pool for the safety of all concerned.

 

Point being, it's not as simple as teaching someone CPR and handing them a whistle.

[cruiseapril]

Lifeguards can be "security guards"- people trained in water safety who are identified as security. Their major role would be to enforce pool rules and the cruise lines can be as strict as they feel they need to be about those rules.

 

One doesn't even have to use the word "lifeguard" or consider it in the typical sense with tall chairs and such. Just security so that small children will no longer be left unattended in any cruise pool.

[badtwin]

Lifeguards can be "security guards"- people trained in water safety who are identified as security. Their major role would be to enforce pool rules and the cruise lines can be as strict as they feel they need to be about those rules.

 

One doesn't even have to use the word "lifeguard" or consider it in the typical sense with tall chairs and such. Just security so that small children will no longer be left unattended in any cruise pool.

 

 

The problem is that once the cruise line accepts some responsibility for watching the kids by the pool (or anywhere on board for that matter), it is very easy for a lawyer to argue it should have/could have done more to protect the children.

 

I am cynical enough to believe that the security provided on Princess lines is not there so much to protect the children as it is to protect the adults from the poor manners of "other people's" children.

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

Lifeguards can be "security guards"- people trained in water safety who are identified as security. Their major role would be to enforce pool rules and the cruise lines can be as strict as they feel they need to be about those rules.

 

One doesn't even have to use the word "lifeguard" or consider it in the typical sense with tall chairs and such. Just security so that small children will no longer be left unattended in any cruise pool.

 

 

PARENTS need to take responsibility for their own children to ensure they are not unattended. It is not anyone's responsibility to take of someone else's children. If a parent does not care enough about their won children to supervise them while they are in water they really ought not to have had children in the first place.

[Jtd724]

I find it very morally wrong and disgusting to just open the pool minutes after the bodies were pulled.

[Fishbait17]

Lifeguards can be "security guards"- people trained in water safety who are identified as security. Their major role would be to enforce pool rules and the cruise lines can be as strict as they feel they need to be about those rules.

 

One doesn't even have to use the word "lifeguard" or consider it in the typical sense with tall chairs and such. Just security so that small children will no longer be left unattended in any cruise pool.

 

As long as they aren't actually called "lifeguards", I'm all for it. While I never use the pools or public hot tubs onboard (as a certified pool operator I would NEVER use these cesspools), I do agree that security and rule-enforcing personnel would be beneficial for those that do. They wouldn't be actually watching the pools for drownings, but instead be enforcing common sense and published rules, and having them trained in CPR and emergency response would be beneficial.

 

The problem with "lifeguards", as I stated earlier in this thread as a question with not a single response, is that in order to have them be true lifeguards, a lot of people would be unhappy. I suspect they would need about 25% of the deck space and two guards around each pool and hot tub that is guarded (clear paths and sight lines), no parents sitting at the pools edges watching their kids (blocking the sight line of the lifeguard), no chairs within probably 8-10 feet of pool edges, etc, etc, etc. Some people may argue that perhaps we only need lifeguards around the "family pool", as they do on DCL with VERY limited hours (some of the signs i have seen have shown guards on duty for only two hours???), that wouldn't have helped those two poor boys this time, as they were in the adult pool, completely out of sight from the family pool. And you KNOW that people would constantly be distracting the guards - "Can you find me an open lounger?", "what time does the buffet open?", "do you have a band aid?", is the Slime Time show going to be on that stage there?", "that child splashed my child, can you tell him to stop", "can you tell me the time?", etc, etc, etc.. That's why our beaches have two to four guards at ALL times, because of sight fatigue and the constant pestering of guests.

 

Having security personnel around the pools would be great though. Keeping diapered children out of the pools, keeping kids out of the hot tubs and adult pools, stopping running and jumping, monitoring drunk adults, enforcing lounger rules, answering all those questions, etc etc etc -great idea... They obviously could NOT be watching the pools all the time, like lifeguards, and maybe that's not good enough for some. But as to having true lifeguards on those tightly packed pool decks watching tiny, overcrowded pools, it's just not really feasible. Not like a community or resort or condominium pool or public beach, there just isn't the space and sight lines to do it right without big sacrifices that I'm not sure people would be willing to make in an already tense, packed area. .

 

Robin

Edited February 10, 2014 by Fishbait17

[NLH Arizona]

Sorry but we do NOT need lifeguards...we just need stricter rules, enforced by NON tipped employees. Lifeguards give false sense of security and only cover the pools. If ever a tragedy occurs - the legal liability would be huge because they had lifeguards

 

Kid security - for lack of a better term - would solve the problem and other dangerous things kids get into. Put in a curfew - have the kid security stop and hold any young kid on their own and page/call the parents - give a warning...if not followed - limit their access to stuff on ship or confine to cabin or put off the ship

 

Let that happen a few times and you won't see more tragedies occur -

there have been other things too - a molester in a spa area - kids fall down a staircase, kids drinking booze etc

 

Lifeguards and "kid security" are two different concepts. Along with "kid security" - make strict rule about age in certain pools...haul the kids out of there, don't let them in - that would have solved the whole problem

You are so correct. The rules need to be enforced. A passenger on the ship said there was a sign that said "no one under 12 yeas old and children must be accompanied by and adult". (1) if this rule had been abided to and (2) if the children were under their caregiver's supervision (which the passenger said they were not), this tragedy probably would not have happened.

 

Adding a lifeguard or a kid's security person, would be adding a babysitter to some parents. NCL doesn't need to add a lifeguard or a kid's security person, just a non-tipped employee to tell passengers of all ages about the rules and kick them out of the pool or pool deck if they are not abiding to those rules.

Edited February 10, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[spunkyhungry]

How many people are in your condo complex?

 

I'm not sure. Maybe there are about 100 condos? Not sure how many people in each one.

[Charles4515]

I'm sure that when there is a law in place that mandates a man overboard alarm, every U.S. flagged passenger ship will comply.

I hate to think how many times a ship will have to turn around and perform a search after a pelican or seagull flies close by?

How many have fallen overboard without help, pushed or doing crazy things while drunk? Close the swimming pools, eliminate all balconies and put up steel walls anywhere a passenger can reach. Should make it all safe for the "nanny state".

Responsibility, where has it gone?:eek:

 

I noticed you said US flagged passenger ship. That just about only covers the one NCL ship in Hawaii.

 

As for the drunks, the cruise lines now pitch unlimited drink packages so they share some responsibility for drunks.

 

I will admit I am not an anarchist. I believe in community and protecting children and others....

[Karysa]

Interesting, why the never mind? I've been reading all of these responses about lifeguards from people that don't really understand how it works. Not saying that its a bad idea at all but there are some practical considerations that haven't been addressed, although some PP have mentioned the need to have life guards elevated so that they can see the bottom.

 

You can't have just one lifeguard per pool, you have to rotate to get "fresh" eyes. In addition, one of the jobs of a lifeguard is to help control the number of patrons in the pool for the safety of all concerned.

 

Point being, it's not as simple as teaching someone CPR and handing them a whistle.

 

Lifeguards are trained and certified and then they are hired. There can be a number counter/security guard so the lifeguard Can focus on the pool.

[Karysa]

I'm not sure. Maybe there are about 100 condos? Not sure how many people in each one.

 

So roughly 300 people live in your condo complex and they have a lifeguard daily? Wow are your condo fees really high?

[Karysa]

You are so correct. The rules need to be enforced. A passenger on the ship said there was a sign that said "no one under 12 yeas old and children must be accompanied by and adult". (1) if this rule had been abided to and (2) if the children were under their caregiver's supervision (which the passenger said they were not), this tragedy probably would not have happened.

 

Adding a lifeguard or a kid's security person, would be adding a babysitter to some parents. NCL doesn't need to add a lifeguard or a kid's security person, just a non-tipped employee to tell passengers of all ages about the rules and kick them out of the pool or pool deck if they are not abiding to those rules.

 

They do a terrible job with chair hogs what makes you think they will do a better job with keeping unattended children out of the pool?

[Karysa]

I find it very morally wrong and disgusting to just open the pool minutes after the bodies were pulled.

 

Personally nothing surprises me anymore. Must be an International waters thing because a community pool would be closed for an investigation in my community.

[NLH Arizona]

They do a terrible job with chair hogs what makes you think they will do a better job with keeping unattended children out of the pool?

I guess for the same reason I would think that parents and/or caregivers would supervise their children in the pools, after hearing about this tragic and totally preventable incident.

 

I think they do a terrible job enforcing the rules, because they depend on tips and don't want to tick passengers off and that is why I said non-tipped personnel.

[Karysa]

Of the 4 drownings 3 were kids. I don’t know the make-up of those who fell overboard.

 

Are you indicating that a kids’ life is important than an adults' life?

 

Kids need a chance to grow up in order to be responsible for themselves. Adults have had that chance. Adults that can't swim can take swimming lessons. A four year old who can't swim needs someone to sign them up and take them there. That's a huge difference to me is it not to you?

[babyher]

Personally nothing surprises me anymore. Must be an International waters thing because a community pool would be closed for an investigation in my community.

 

 

Although a terrible tragedy . It was not a crime scene. The child wasn't murdered , they don't need to dust for prints, check for DNA, weapons, foul play.

[Karysa]

Although a terrible tragedy . It was not a crime scene. The child wasn't murdered , they don't need to dust for prints, check for DNA, weapons, foul play.

 

A 911 call involving a child where I live entails a policeman going to the scene. I know this from personal experience as one of my DD's fell off of her bike while we were on a bike ride when she was 10 and was impaled by the break lever. The policeman most certainly asked me questions to make sure that this was simply an accident and not neglect.

I have heard of kids getting their hair stuck in drains in the pool and hot tubs. It just surprises me that the pool would be open before an investigation took place. If a child died in a hotel room would you not expect the hotel room to be investigated or would you think that the room could just be cleaned up and rented? Thinking that the pool would be drained and looked at closer is really no different to me.

[Karysa]

PARENTS need to take responsibility for their own children to ensure they are not unattended. It is not anyone's responsibility to take of someone else's children. If a parent does not care enough about their won children to supervise them while they are in water they really ought not to have had children in the first place.

 

So it's just the child's problem? Too bad so sad but if your parents don't care if you are safe good luck to you kid? Wow, I love my parents even more tonight

[babyher]

A 911 call involving a child where I live entails a policeman going to the scene. I know this from personal experience as one of my DD's fell off of her bike while we were on a bike ride when she was 10 and was impaled by the break lever. The policeman most certainly asked me questions to make sure that this was simply an accident and not neglect.

I have heard of kids getting their hair stuck in drains in the pool and hot tubs. It just surprises me that the pool would be open before an investigation took place. If a child died in a hotel room would you not expect the hotel room to be investigated or would you think that the room could just be cleaned up and rented? Thinking that the pool would be drained and looked at closer is really no different to me.

 

We have the same policy where I live (I have been a 9-1-1 dispatcher for going on 30 years)

 

A child drowns in a pool with a lot of people around on a cruise ship. absolutely tragic but unless some type of circumstance is apparent. it is justa horrible accident.

 

A child , or anyone found dead in a hotel room or ship cabin, is a different story . Any number of factors could be the cause.

[antsnanny]

I find it very morally wrong and disgusting to just open the pool minutes after the bodies were pulled.

 

Hey from your neighboring town…..I was on the ship and it was unbelievable that people jumped in the pool as soon as the little one's body was removed from the deck. Its not that they didn't know what happened! Didn't bother them one bit. Weird to me and I wouldn't go anywhere near the pool for the rest of the cruse but thats just me. In NCL's defense they scrubbed the decking where the baby died.

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

So it's just the child's problem? Too bad so sad but if your parents don't care if you are safe good luck to you kid? Wow, I love my parents even more tonight

 

 

Didn't say that but it isn't other people's responsibility to watch YOUR kids. When I am on a cruise I am there to enjoy MY vacation not watch other people and police them. It is ashamed that our society has enabled and encouraged a culture of lack of personal responsibility over the last 6+ years, but that is coming from the top down.

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

I noticed you said US flagged passenger ship. That just about only covers the one NCL ship in Hawaii.

 

As for the drunks, the cruise lines now pitch unlimited drink packages so they share some responsibility for drunks.

 

I will admit I am not an anarchist. I believe in community and protecting children and others....

 

 

Even with an unlimited package NCL has the absolute right to cut off any guest.

[sharecruises]

Kids need a chance to grow up in order to be responsible for themselves. Adults have had that chance. Adults that can't swim can take swimming lessons. A four year old who can't swim needs someone to sign them up and take them there. That's a huge difference to me is it not to you?

 

The people responsible are the kid's parents /guardian and when in the kid club the employees of the cruiseline.

The pools say "at your own risk"

That pool said "12 and over,parental supervision" etc

so who is negligent? Oh my people are afraid to say it but it is pretty clear.

 

While I agree that it is gross to just reopen the pool, the fact is that NCL was not negligent.

 

Where does it end if they have lifeguards?? Will the room stewards remove booze from any cabin with kids? sharp objects?

Put a net around the ship so kids don't fall off?

 

More sensible would be to have rules and enforce them with some sort of sub/kid security. There are other ways kids can get hurt and this would prevent that too. Kid running on slippery deck could hit their head without even getting in a pool, or fall over a railing, fall down the steps etc

[Karysa]

We have the same policy where I live (I have been a 9-1-1 dispatcher for going on 30 years)

 

A child drowns in a pool with a lot of people around on a cruise ship. absolutely tragic but unless some type of circumstance is apparent. it is justa horrible accident.

 

A child , or anyone found dead in a hotel room or ship cabin, is a different story . Any number of factors could be the cause.

 

There certainly can be causes to Drownings that involve children that are more than a simple accident and the "hair" caught in the drain that I mentioned is just one and I won't add more here. I still can't believe it was business as usual for NCL that day but I gotta know, was the band still playing and the pool and deck games still on?

[Karysa]

Didn't say that but it isn't other people's responsibility to watch YOUR kids. When I am on a cruise I am there to enjoy MY vacation not watch other people and police them. It is ashamed that our society has enabled and encouraged a culture of lack of personal responsibility over the last 6+ years, but that is coming from the top down.

 

We have also lost the "village" mentality of years gone by. Kind of sad to me actually.