Did you have AC issues on Zuiderdam?

[MermaidWatcher]

A CC Member Review offers this "fuel saving" heat-pump explanation for Zuiderdam failed A/C reports. Any engineers to explain this further:

 

 

"Once the ship had reached Cabo San Lucas and beyond the ship's cooling systems began to fail.

I learned that the cooling system worked like a heat pump and that it relied on the difference between the air and water temperatures. Predictably, in tropical waters, the air and water temperature soon became the same.

As a result, the cooling system needed auxiliary power to be able to cool the whole ship. This would have required the use of the ship's diesel auxiliary generators.

However, to save fuel, the auxiliary generators were not used and the ship's air-conditioning was rationed for the next two weeks to the revenue-producing areas of the ship and the VIP decks.

Passengers were not informed as to the cause of the failed air-conditioning in many parts of the ship.

My cabin remained at 80 degrees or above both day and night for two weeks. And again I was told that I had no recourse. Notably other passengers were relocated when they complained."

 

I would put this in the category of pure mechanically uniformed rumor promotion, based on some mistaken idea that diesel generators are normally sitting idle when underway. Zuiderdam uses an Azipod propulsion system, not a diesel engine/shaft/propeller. In the Azipod system, a large pod consisting of the propeller and it's electric drive motor hangs where the strut and rudder would typically be on a shaft driven ship, so the power for ship propulsion is actually electricity. Since the pod rotates, it also replaces the standard rudder, acting as a thruster in any direction. To supply power for propulsion, along with all the ancillary requirements, she is equipped with five diesel generators plus one GE gas turbine generator. Also, to design electrical wiring and piping systems of such a large scale so that rooms can selectively be isolated from the system individually based on some random pattern, such as differentiating between lower category of rooms vs suites, vs public areas, in the same area of the ship would be cost prohibitive.

We , myself included, can only speculate as to the root of these ongoing mechanical and sewer problems, but since they seem to have plagued multiple ships for years, it seems that systems were built repeatedly with an inherent design flaw.

[OlsSalt]

…...

We , myself included, can only speculate as to the root of these ongoing mechanical and sewer problems, but since they seem to have plagued multiple ships for years, it seems that systems were built repeatedly with an inherent design flaw.

 

When I sailed the good old 50's built Galileo Galilei RTW back in 1977, crossing the equator we sweated it out in our inside cabin. The "engineers" came in and banged on the cabin A/C system and said it would get better in a few days. And it did.:cool:

[Hlitner]

When I sailed the good old 50's built Galileo Galilei RTW back in 1977, crossing the equator we sweated it out in our inside cabin. The "engineers" came in and banged on the cabin A/C system and said it would get better in a few days. And it did.:cool:

 

LOL. Loved those Italian crews. They figured that you can fix most problems with a hammer....and they were often right :D

Edited November 21, 2013 by Hlitner

[OlsSalt]

LOL. Loved those Italian crews. They figured that you can fix most problems with a hammer....and they were often right :D

 

I think they engaged more in human psychology on that one. Once past the equator it was remarkable, things did cool down. What a coincidence. :cool: Plus they knew exactly when to come bursting in the door calling "fresh towels" when the traveling young ladies were in some form of undress before dinner. Greek crews were good at that too. Must have been part of their maritime training.

[SailNC]

We were on the October 28 - November 8th Panama Canal on the Zuiderdam and had very limited a/c in Suite 7065. They gave us an oscillating fan which moved the air around but that was about it. Concierge staff took readings 3 times daily, each time showing that the temps were NOT in HAL's "acceptable" range for cooling. We were told that the engineers said the a/c was operating at full capacity. Interesting in that there was barely a whisper of air coming out of either vent.

UPDATE:

We're delighted to report that we received a wonderful letter via email from HAL in which our concerns were addressed and nice compensation for our trouble was given to us. It's great to see that HAL does, indeed, live up to its reputation for commitment to passenger comfort. The rapidity of the response was also a very pleasant surprise. We look forward to sailing again on HAL.:D

[iancal]

IF HAL is truly living up to it's commitment it will either remedy the situation or stop knowingly selling cabins in areas know to have A/C issues.

 

Glad that you got some compensation. But that will not help others who will be spending time in that same cabin in the near future if the issue has not been resolved.

[Hlitner]

IF HAL is truly living up to it's commitment it will either remedy the situation or stop knowingly selling cabins in areas know to have A/C issues.

 

Glad that you got some compensation. But that will not help others who will be spending time in that same cabin in the near future if the issue has not been resolved.

 

One wonders if the A/C problems on multiple HAL ships is due to a design flaw rather then poor maintenance. Certainly HAL does not want to have to deal with constant complaints...and would fix the problem if they could. We ourselves have had a HAL cabin (on the Veendam) where the cooling was not as it should be...but it was not bad enough to make it worthy of whining. But others at our dinner table did have major A/C issues and only got partial satisfaction during the 4 week cruise. So we must conclude that HAL is not able or capable of correcting A/C problems on some of their ships. Perhaps it was said best by our tablemates who told us they loved cruising on HAL but would never again set foot on the Veendam. And here we here tales about another ship.

 

Hank

[scdreamer]

UPDATE:

We're delighted to report that we received a wonderful letter via email from HAL in which our concerns were addressed and nice compensation for our trouble was given to us. It's great to see that HAL does, indeed, live up to its reputation for commitment to passenger comfort. The rapidity of the response was also a very pleasant surprise. We look forward to sailing again on HAL.:D

 

Well, HAL did not respond to or give us any compensation on Veendam when we experienced no AC in our cabin (not even any air coming from the register at all). Of course, we were in an OV, not a high end cabin, so maybe that had something to do with it.:cool::mad:

[Cindy]

One wonders if the A/C problems on multiple HAL ships is due to a design flaw rather then poor maintenance. Certainly HAL does not want to have to deal with constant complaints...and would fix the problem if they could. We ourselves have had a HAL cabin (on the Veendam) where the cooling was not as it should be...but it was not bad enough to make it worthy of whining. But others at our dinner table did have major A/C issues and only got partial satisfaction during the 4 week cruise. So we must conclude that HAL is not able or capable of correcting A/C problems on some of their ships. Perhaps it was said best by our tablemates who told us they loved cruising on HAL but would never again set foot on the Veendam. And here we here tales about another ship.

 

Hank

 

The design flaw theory doesn't really make sense to me. If there was a design flaw behind the A/C and plumbing problems on the Zuiderdam, I would expect there to be similar issues on all the Vista class ships.

[iancal]

Are not the Vista ships just a carbon copy of the bog standard Carnival Corp Spirit class ships?

 

Have not heard of any issues on those ships....and we did a little checking when we tried the Carnival Spirit.

Edited November 22, 2013 by iancal

[Hlitner]

Are not the Vista ships just a carbon copy of the bog standard Carnival Corp Spirit class ships?

 

Have not heard of any issues on those ships....and we did a little checking when we tried the Carnival Spirit.

 

Good point. So I guess that means we need to attribute all the various A/C complaints to substandard HAL maintenance. Just noticed another recent post regarding the Ryndam which also reported A/C problems where they could not cool off their cabin

 

Hank

Edited November 22, 2013 by Hlitner

[cruisin'girl]

UPDATE:

We're delighted to report that we received a wonderful letter via email from HAL in which our concerns were addressed and nice compensation for our trouble was given to us. It's great to see that HAL does, indeed, live up to its reputation for commitment to passenger comfort. The rapidity of the response was also a very pleasant surprise. We look forward to sailing again on HAL.:D

I really am glad you received a nice letter and some compensation, but I'm not sure how either one shows a commitment to passenger comfort. Passenger comfort would be having AC that works.

[OlsSalt]

The Princess Board also discusses the Goldilocks issue of too hot or too cold: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1913744&highlight=air+conditioner+problems

Edited November 22, 2013 by OlsSalt

[Cindy]

Are not the Vista ships just a carbon copy of the bog standard Carnival Corp Spirit class ships?

 

Have not heard of any issues on those ships....and we did a little checking when we tried the Carnival Spirit.

 

I think quite a few Princess and Costa ships are also the same basic hull. I haven't been on Costa, but I've been on HAL, CCL, and PCL. If you take away the décor and the unique use of the interior space, the basic layout is quite similar. All the ships were built at Fincantieri.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Cindy

[bcscot]

I am so glad to see this thread as I was wondering why nobody else was experiencing these problems. I was thinking of starting such a thread myself, but not about the Zuiderdam, upon which I have never sailed (nor the Veendam), I have, however, sailed upon 11 of the 15 HAL ships over the last 10 years and have experienced numerous ventilation problems.

It has been suggested that these problems are to be expected on old ships. I like old ships but do not regard the HAL fleet as old. Indeed the old HAL ships are still sailing under the Thomson flag. I have sailed on many old ships though, including QE2, Regal Empress, Ocean Islander, Saga Rose, Saga Ruby, Black Watch, Aegean Odyssey and more. I have also sailed on newer Cunard and Celebrity ships. Yes, any ship can have these problems but my experience has been that ventilation problems have been disproportionatley high on HAL ships.

It has also been suggested that these issues are caused by careless passengers. If this was the case, then I would have expected to experience problems in the same proportion on all lines.

It has further been suggested that if any of us do not enjoy the experience, then, rather than complain, we should just go elsewhere. Well we really like HAL and have persisted, but are coming to the conclusion that we may indeed have to cruise more with other lines because, above all, the ability to breath in our cabin and have a good night's sleep is of paramount importance to us for the enjoyment of a cruise for which we have invested both valuable time and money.

One of the things that we have found difficult to get through to people is that we are not just talking about cabin temperature here, but ventilation, which requires the provision of oxygen in fresh air, along with the removal of CO2 in stale air. Failure to achieve this, results in a 'stuffy' cabin with poor air quality, even though the cabin is not too hot. We have also noticed that many people are just not sensitive to stuffy rooms and can sleep happily in a hot and stuffy bedroom, so they do not understand our problem.

Initially we had problems only on the lower decks of S-class ships, with cigarette smoke, cooking smells and smoke from burning fat coming into our cabin from the crew area below. We named these ships the 'Smelly Class' ships. It is only in the last two years, however, that we have started to have the problem of warm and stuffy cabins and usually only at night, even on ships upon which we had not previously had a problem. We wondered if they might be turning down the ventilation at night as a cost cutting exercise. We had this problem on the Zaandam, then the Oosterdam and most recently on the Rotterdam (she had the delayed flush and frequently blocking toilets too!).

We have been through the full cycle of complaints, excuses, letters, compensation etc (as described so well by others, as if from a script). We do not want compensation, we want to be able to sail with HAL, breath and sleep well in our cabin. If we cannot do this, even though we are looking forward to the rewards of 4 star Mariner status after our next cruise, we will reluctantly have to start cruising more with other lines. We have indeed already booked another Celebrity cruise.

I am sorry if some people think that this is 'whining,' but I just think that it is very sad.

[OlsSalt]

I am so glad to see this thread as I was wondering why nobody else was experiencing these problems. I was thinking of starting such a thread myself, but not about the Zuiderdam, upon which I have never sailed (nor the Veendam), I have, however, sailed upon 11 of the 15 HAL ships over the last 10 years and have experienced numerous ventilation problems.

It has been suggested that these problems are to be expected on old ships. I like old ships but do not regard the HAL fleet as old. Indeed the old HAL ships are still sailing under the Thomson flag. I have sailed on many old ships though, including QE2, Regal Empress, Ocean Islander, Saga Rose, Saga Ruby, Black Watch, Aegean Odyssey and more. I have also sailed on newer Cunard and Celebrity ships. Yes, any ship can have these problems but my experience has been that ventilation problems have been disproportionatley high on HAL ships.

It has also been suggested that these issues are caused by careless passengers. If this was the case, then I would have expected to experience problems in the same proportion on all lines.

It has further been suggested that if any of us do not enjoy the experience, then, rather than complain, we should just go elsewhere. Well we really like HAL and have persisted, but are coming to the conclusion that we may indeed have to cruise more with other lines because, above all, the ability to breath in our cabin and have a good night's sleep is of paramount importance to us for the enjoyment of a cruise for which we have invested both valuable time and money.

One of the things that we have found difficult to get through to people is that we are not just talking about cabin temperature here, but ventilation, which requires the provision of oxygen in fresh air, along with the removal of CO2 in stale air. Failure to achieve this, results in a 'stuffy' cabin with poor air quality, even though the cabin is not too hot. We have also noticed that many people are just not sensitive to stuffy rooms and can sleep happily in a hot and stuffy bedroom, so they do not understand our problem.

Initially we had problems only on the lower decks of S-class ships, with cigarette smoke, cooking smells and smoke from burning fat coming into our cabin from the crew area below. We named these ships the 'Smelly Class' ships. It is only in the last two years, however, that we have started to have the problem of warm and stuffy cabins and usually only at night, even on ships upon which we had not previously had a problem. We wondered if they might be turning down the ventilation at night as a cost cutting exercise. We had this problem on the Zaandam, then the Oosterdam and most recently on the Rotterdam (she had the delayed flush and frequently blocking toilets too!).

We have been through the full cycle of complaints, excuses, letters, compensation etc (as described so well by others, as if from a script). We do not want compensation, we want to be able to sail with HAL, breath and sleep well in our cabin. If we cannot do this, even though we are looking forward to the rewards of 4 star Mariner status after our next cruise, we will reluctantly have to start cruising more with other lines. We have indeed already booked another Celebrity cruise.

I am sorry if some people think that this is 'whining,' but I just think that it is very sad.

 

We have sailed the Maasdam twice, the Oosterdam twice, the Rotterdam twice, the Ryndam, the Zuiderdam, the Statendam and the Prinsendam and NEVER have had a malfunctioning cabin or HACV system on any ship for almost 200 days of sailing.

 

So our conclusion would be just the opposite as yours. Equally valid as your negative experiences, but necessary to keep things balanced. I can appreciate those who have had unhappy experiences have the perfect right to bash HAL for their own experiences that are quite to the contrary.

 

And I am sorry you had such a miserable time. This was meant to be your vacation and it is shame it was ruined for you. It is best you never come back to HAL ships every again. It is simply not worth the aggravation for you.

Edited November 22, 2013 by OlsSalt

[brazilgirl]

I am a person who is quite easy to please. i have traveled a lot , stayed at 5 star hotels and at Motel 8s. I am not terribly picky about food. Happily , on my cruises so far , I have had mostly very positive experiences.

 

I take reviews about bad food , bad service , stains , poor entertainment etc with a grain of salt. Different things bother different people.

 

However , no A/C or proper ventilation in one's cabin is NOT acceptable , it is not "whining" . The passengers accounts do not seem embellished at all.

 

Unacceptable...it would ruin my vacation as I cannot sleep in a hot stuffy room. Sleep deprivation on a paid , long dreamed of vacation? Awful.

[Lkcossmfr]

First time I ever saw it mentioned here but I thought they might turn things down at night too. A dinner-mate mentioned that they were waking up during the night and kicking off the covers and wondered if the AC was being turned down. I realized the same thing was happening to me. Didn't have a thermometer nor did I want to get that involved but now that I see it again...hmmmmm

[startwin]

We have sailed the Maasdam twice, the Oosterdam twice, the Rotterdam twice, the Ryndam, the Zuiderdam, the Statendam and the Prinsendam and NEVER have had a malfunctioning cabin or HACV system on any ship for almost 200 days of sailing.

 

So our conclusion would be just the opposite as yours. Equally valid as your negative experiences, but necessary to keep things balanced. I can appreciate those who have had unhappy experiences have the perfect right to bash HAL for their own experiences that are quite to the contrary.

 

And I am sorry you had such a miserable time. This was meant to be your vacation and it is shame it was ruined for you. It is best you never come back to HAL ships every again. It is simply not worth the aggravation for you.[/quote]

 

How very pleasant.:rolleyes: And of course all your arguments are based on the fact that you have never had a problem so therefore no one else on a ship carrying 1800 pax could possibly have had a problem - so go away and never sail HAL again. I bet you make loads of friends with an attitude like that.

[MermaidWatcher]

We were on the 10/28 Zuiderdam sailing, 8 days in had dinner with a couple who had no A/C from day 1.. they were given fans and a "sleeping cabin" not close by. They said all the aft cabins on their floor (which floor? I forget) had the same issue and that the corner suites occupants were moved the second day.

:mad:Not good that these folks weren't moved outta there before the ship sailed. The issues were known and they could have been given a cabin change a week or so before.:mad:

 

We sailed Nov 8, and fortunately were not in any of the affected cabins, thus we had a great cruise. So some here may wonder why I (and others) who have not experienced this misfortune keep prodding this issue. In hopes of shedding some light on why, I have highlighted your observation that sums up the problem for me exactly. HAL continuously and knowingly put passengers in cabins that they knew should not have been in service, with total disregard for their comfort, and in some cases, very possibly their health because of heat related issues. These folks should have been notified of the problem and given the option of a new cabin assignment if available, cancellation with full refund, or cancellation with full credit for another cruise, up to the very moment they checked in dockside. Although we had great experiences on our only two HAL cruises, I doubt if we will sail again in the foreseeable future with a line who exhibits such a callous attitude towards it's customers.

Edited November 22, 2013 by MermaidWatcher

[OlsSalt]

We sailed Nov 8, and fortunately were not in any of the affected cabins, thus we had a great cruise. So some here may wonder why I (and others) who have not experienced this misfortune keep prodding this issue. In hopes of shedding some light on why, I have highlighted your observation that sums up the problem for me exactly. HAL continuously and knowingly put passengers in cabins that they knew should not have been in service, with total disregard for their comfort, and in some cases, very possibly their health because of heat related issues. These folks should have been notified of the problem and given the option of a new cabin assignment if available, cancellation with full refund, or cancellation with full credit for another cruise, up to the very moment they checked in dockside. Although we had great experiences on our only two HAL cruises, I doubt if we will sail again in the foreseeable future with a line who exhibits such a callous attitude towards it's customers.

 

I wouldn't take the risk either if I had reached the same conclusion. You are doing the right thing for yourself.

[chrispb]

The Princess Board also discusses the Goldilocks issue of too hot or too cold: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1913744&highlight=air+conditioner+problems

 

But Goldilocks always find the one that is just right:cool:

[OlsSalt]

But Goldilocks always find the one that is just right:cool:

 

The joys of the open market place. Seek and ye shall find.

[iancal]

We select based on itinerary, ship, and cruise line.

 

Just because we are not predisposed to select Veendam or Zuiderdam does not in any way mean that we would not have other HAL ships on our short list or select them. Same with a few other cruise lines that each have one or more ships that we would not consider.

 

HAL enthusiasts may be quite willing to do so because their preference is for cruise line before ship. Ninety percent or more of them will probably get a trouble fee cabin. Everyone makes their choice based upon personal preferences.

Edited November 22, 2013 by iancal

[MermaidWatcher]

I wouldn't take the risk either if I had reached the same conclusion. You are doing the right thing for yourself.

 

Not what I want to do, as we thoroughly enjoyed our two cruises with HAL. The more laid back atmosphere is great, and we thoroughly enjoyed the more mature age mix. The food was excellent, as was the entertainment IMO. Hopefully, the offending ships can be truly overhauled in dry dock and establish a clean post dry dock record. We would love to sail HAL again, but it will take a while for me to override the callous treatment they knowingly give their customers. And that is the problem for me, "knowingly", they put people in these rooms.