Did you have AC issues on Zuiderdam?

[kazu]

Name a cruise line and you will see problems reported. From Silver Seas, to Regent, to Crystal, to Oceania, to P&O, to Celebrity to Holland America, and on and on and on. Carnival comes in for more than its fair share, but they also have a lot of ships. http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Disabling.html#2012

 

BTW: unconfirmed sole passenger complaints need verification.

 

The bolding is mine. Just because I had a great cruise doesn't mean someone else didn't have issues. A complaint is a complaint and while we all have different standards, a working toilet and AC are minimum standards IMO.

Edited November 20, 2013 by kazu

[Tarpeian Rock]

Name a cruise line and you will see problems reported. From Silver Seas, to Regent, to Crystal, to Oceania, to P&O, to Celebrity to Holland America, and on and on and on. Carnival comes in for more than its fair share, but they also have a lot of ships. http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Disabling.html#2012

 

BTW: unconfirmed sole passenger complaints need verification.

 

 

 

The persistent drumbeat of reported a/c problems in aft cabins in Zuiderdam, and the equally predictable lack of effective staff response, hardly fit into the category of "unconfirmed sole passenger complaints."

[TracieABD]

You should be. Imagine a cruise line that hates its passengers, doesn't care if they are wretched and miserable, yet surprisingly those passengers keep coming back for more abuse. :rolleyes:

 

After reading a horrible tale of woe about the Volendam in another travel organization, I went to the Cruise Critic member reviews for the same time on the same ship and all I saw were four and five star plus reviews. What one passenger described as "losing all power and drifting backwards for an hour and half" might well have been the medical evacuation another reviewer described was necessary for her husband.

 

But no one reported the "toilets were overflowing all the time and the A/C never worked". Not a peep about either problem in several reviews around the exact same time this report was made. I don't think people lie about an incident; but I do suspect there is a lot of embellishment and exaggeration as to duration and impact. And yes, there can be multiple reports that conclusively show a serious problem and HAL has not shied away from recognizing this too. And compensating accordingly.

 

And yes, you can and will run into incidents yourself. We all have. I don't think these are exclusive to HAL ships, And yes, some of them are caused by passenger carelessness. And that unfortunately does become part of the group travel experience on ships. If you want perfection at all levels at all times, I can assure you HAL ships will not guarantee you this. And this is okay with an awful lot of loyal passengers who have learned at any given time they might have to be adaptable and flexible out there on the high seas.

 

Toss out the worst reports and the glowing best ones too where everything was perfect and be content with what you find in the middle. No, I don't think you will have your guts sucked out by an errant toilet on HAL ships. That most certainly would have made the news by now.

 

Plus you might want to read up a bit about this ever happening and why from the new disclosure book written by an airline pilot about the hidden side of flying. Where I really do think they hate their passengers. :cool: But we still fly.

 

Sorry I said anything.:confused:

[iancal]

Yes, you must right. These are all unconfirmed reports. Bunch of complainers with nothing better to do. Poor HAL for having such bad customers. You would think that these folks would have something better to do with their time instead of bothering the front desk folks about A/C issues.

 

And if they were true, they are all most definitely caused either by the cruisers themselves or perhaps those cruisers simply have a misperception of what constitutes a warm room.

 

I accept that all of the folks who leave balcony doors open sail on HAL and the people who stuff things that they should not also always cruise on HAL.

 

Other cruise lines must feel fortunate that all of these people sail on HAL. Or is it because they are complainers at heart and are not happy unless they have something to complain about?

 

HAL's is absolutely correct to continue selling those cabins because they realize that these issues are not really HAL issues. I cannot blame the front desk for being not being responsive or pretending that they have never heard of the problems before-after a few years of having unreasonable cruisers complaining about unverified issues they must certainly be tired of customers.

[startwin]

I find it interesting how all these complainers, toilet-stuffers, door jammed-openers (including me, apparently) all gravitate to the Zuiderdam. Must be because they've heard so many complaints they know they'll feel at home.:rolleyes:

[sapper1]

You should be. Imagine a cruise line that hates its passengers, doesn't care if they are wretched and miserable, yet surprisingly those passengers keep coming back for more abuse. :rolleyes:

 

After reading a horrible tale of woe about the Volendam in another travel organization, I went to the Cruise Critic member reviews for the same time on the same ship and all I saw were four and five star plus reviews. What one passenger described as "losing all power and drifting backwards for an hour and half" might well have been the medical evacuation another reviewer described was necessary for her husband.

 

But no one reported the "toilets were overflowing all the time and the A/C never worked". Not a peep about either problem in several reviews around the exact same time this report was made. I don't think people lie about an incident; but I do suspect there is a lot of embellishment and exaggeration as to duration and impact. And yes, there can be multiple reports that conclusively show a serious problem and HAL has not shied away from recognizing this too. And compensating accordingly.

 

And yes, you can and will run into incidents yourself. We all have. I don't think these are exclusive to HAL ships, And yes, some of them are caused by passenger carelessness. And that unfortunately does become part of the group travel experience on ships. If you want perfection at all levels at all times, I can assure you HAL ships will not guarantee you this. And this is okay with an awful lot of loyal passengers who have learned at any given time they might have to be adaptable and flexible out there on the high seas.

 

Toss out the worst reports and the glowing best ones too where everything was perfect and be content with what you find in the middle. No, I don't think you will have your guts sucked out by an errant toilet on HAL ships. That most certainly would have made the news by now.

 

Plus you might want to read up a bit about this ever happening and why from the new disclosure book written by an airline pilot about the hidden side of flying. Where I really do think they hate their passengers. :cool: But we still fly.

 

Without any embellishment and very simply:

 

On the Zuiderdam April repo cruise in April 2012, there was an announcement that the AC would be shut down for the entire day in Grand Turk for repairs. It was. The day was sweltering and people were suffering. It was ten at night before it was restored. We were preparing to sleep on the aft deck.

 

On the same cruise the whole toilet system aft of the glass elevators broke down and there was an announcement made that a new pump had to be installed. This took all day, although the system had started failing the evening before.

 

Startwin had no toilet for most of the cruise.

 

Now I am getting on in years so maybe I imagined the whole thing. Heck, maybe I just imagined Startwin. Hey out there---are you real or just an embellishment in my mind? :p

[OlsSalt]

Yes, you must right. These are all unconfirmed reports. Bunch of complainers with nothing better to do. Poor HAL for having such bad customers. You would think that these folks would have something better to do with their time instead of bothering the front desk folks about A/C issues.

 

And if they were true, they are all most definitely caused either by the cruisers themselves or perhaps those cruisers simply have a misperception of what constitutes a warm room.

 

I accept that all of the folks who leave balcony doors open sail on HAL and the people who stuff things that they should not also always cruise on HAL.

 

Other cruise lines must feel fortunate that all of these people sail on HAL. Or is it because they are complainers at heart and are not happy unless they have something to complain about?

 

HAL's is absolutely correct to continue selling those cabins because they realize that these issues are not really HAL issues. I cannot blame the front desk for being not being responsive or pretending that they have never heard of the problems before-after a few years of having unreasonable cruisers complaining about unverified issues they must certainly be tired of customers.

 

Intentional exaggeration of issues for effect is a problem in itself. Trust, but verify remains the best approach.

[OlsSalt]

I find it interesting how all these complainers, toilet-stuffers, door jammed-openers (including me, apparently) all gravitate to the Zuiderdam. Must be because they've heard so many complaints they know they'll feel at home.:rolleyes:

 

According to that cruisejunkie website, similar issues hit just about all cruise ship lines from the top of the class to the bottom.

[OlsSalt]

Without any embellishment and very simply:

 

On the Zuiderdam April repo cruise in April 2012, there was an announcement that the AC would be shut down for the entire day in Grand Turk for repairs. It was. The day was sweltering and people were suffering. It was ten at night before it was restored. We were preparing to sleep on the aft deck.

 

On the same cruise the whole toilet system aft of the glass elevators broke down and there was an announcement made that a new pump had to be installed. This took all day, although the system had started failing the evening before.

 

Startwin had no toilet for most of the cruise.

 

Now I am getting on in years so maybe I imagined the whole thing. Heck, maybe I just imagined Startwin. Hey out there---are you real or just an embellishment in my mind? :p

 

There is no question when the ship itself recognizes this issue and informs all passengers as in this well documented ship's incident, there is far more than just the individual complaint which may or may not be subjective, actual or exaggerated.

 

Thank you for identifying the exact time of this incident which becomes critical to compare before and after reports rather than registering the overly global complaint we see too often here, basically condemning and entire ship for all time ,for all systems forever. I appreciate you including the exact dates and the HAL public response to the incident and hope other passengers do as well.

[Wakepatrol]

 

 

 

 

 

Other cruise lines must feel fortunate that all of these people sail on HAL. Or is it because they are complainers at heart and are not happy unless they have something to complain about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Putting aside A/C and plumbing issues which are vital when on vacation and should be expected to work perfectly.

 

Yes there are alot of complainers,I've never read so much kvetching and whining in my whole life. Here's a few please add

 

complain about photographers when boarding

complain they didn't get enough ice

complain the wine list is lousy

complain people can bring wine,but one can't bring beer alcohol

complain about large groups on the ship

complain about entertainment

complain about lido hours

complain about smoking

complain about tendering

complain about missed ports due to weather

complain the CD made too many announcements

complain about the bridge teacher

 

I haven't even scratched the surface,yes there is a boatload of complainers. since you asked:cool:

Edited November 20, 2013 by Wakepatrol

[OlsSalt]

…..

 

I haven't even scratched the surface,yes there is a boatload of complainers. since you asked:cool:

 

Forget about not wanting to sail on HAL's uniformly decrepit ships; who wants to sail with such a kvetching group of passengers. :cool:

 

Four star Mariner and proud of it. And we never once in five years of cruising across the HAL inventory of ships have run into the string of complaints and complainers one all too chronically reads about here.

Edited November 20, 2013 by OlsSalt

[iancal]

I believe that the crux of the issue with some posters is that when they say 'has the problem been verified' they really mean that if it did not happen to them it must not have happened at all.

 

I can discount complaints like the MDR was only mediocre because my peas were the wrong shade of green.

 

But I don't discount complaints or call reports from posters 'unverified' when they say they had no A/C for two weeks, that they got moved twice, or that their cabin was so hot they were given a sleeping cabin, or that that their toilets were not functioning for days and days.

Edited November 20, 2013 by iancal

[OlsSalt]

I believe that the crux of the issue with some posters is that when they say 'has the problem been verified' they really mean that if it did not happen to them it must not have happened at all.

 

I can discount complaints like the MDR was only mediocre because my peas were the wrong shade of green.

 

But I don't discount complaints or call reports from posters 'unverified' that say they had no A/C for two weeks, that they got moved twice, or that their cabin was so hot they were given a sleeping cabin.

 

I don't discount complaints, subjective or not to the complainer, when they are backed up by objective corroboration and agreed remediation.

[startwin]

Without any embellishment and very simply:

 

On the Zuiderdam April repo cruise in April 2012, there was an announcement that the AC would be shut down for the entire day in Grand Turk for repairs. It was. The day was sweltering and people were suffering. It was ten at night before it was restored. We were preparing to sleep on the aft deck.

 

On the same cruise the whole toilet system aft of the glass elevators broke down and there was an announcement made that a new pump had to be installed. This took all day, although the system had started failing the evening before.

 

Startwin had no toilet for most of the cruise.

 

Now I am getting on in years so maybe I imagined the whole thing. Heck, maybe I just imagined Startwin. Hey out there---are you real or just an embellishment in my mind? :p

 

 

No, I'm very much alive and kicking:D Is that enough objective corroboration for you? Having a good chuckle at the running around and defending of HAL that's going on - some posters must be getting quite out of breath running between threads.:D:D

[sapper1]

No, I'm very much alive and kicking:D Is that enough objective corroboration for you? Having a good chuckle at the running around and defending of HAL that's going on - some posters must be getting quite out of breath running between threads.:D:D

 

Do you have independent verification of your existence?:D

[startwin]

Do you have independent verification of your existence?:D

 

Ummm...... (deleted)

[3basenjis]

We were on the oct1-17 Panama Canal cruise room 7093 . A/c started failing 5 days in. We slept with wet towels on us. Also mini bar/cooler never worked it was swapped out twice.. Finally on the day before we disembarked a new fridge was put in that seemed to work great... We were given a bucket of beer as consolation for the bad cooler.. We didn't even rate a bottle of wine.... All in all still enjoyed our cruise but would need a fantastic price and itenerary to go on Zuiderdam again...

[Lkcossmfr]

We were on the 10/28 Zuiderdam sailing, 8 days in had dinner with a couple who had no A/C from day 1.. they were given fans and a "sleeping cabin" not close by. They said all the aft cabins on their floor (which floor? I forget) had the same issue and that the corner suites occupants were moved the second day.

Not good that these folks weren't moved outta there before the ship sailed. The issues were known and they could have been given a cabin change a week or so before.

[cruisin'girl]

We were on the oct1-17 Panama Canal cruise room 7093 . A/c started failing 5 days in. We slept with wet towels on us. Also mini bar/cooler never worked it was swapped out twice.. Finally on the day before we disembarked a new fridge was put in that seemed to work great... We were given a bucket of beer as consolation for the bad cooler.. We didn't even rate a bottle of wine.... All in all still enjoyed our cruise but would need a fantastic price and itenerary to go on Zuiderdam again...

Slept with wet towels on you to keep cool? Wow. You have a lot more patience than DH and I would have had. We would not have enjoyed that cruise I don't think.

[OlsSalt]

A CC Member Review offers this "fuel saving" heat-pump explanation for Zuiderdam failed A/C reports. Any engineers to explain this further:

 

 

"Once the ship had reached Cabo San Lucas and beyond the ship's cooling systems began to fail.

 

I learned that the cooling system worked like a heat pump and that it relied on the difference between the air and water temperatures. Predictably, in tropical waters, the air and water temperature soon became the same.

 

As a result, the cooling system needed auxiliary power to be able to cool the whole ship. This would have required the use of the ship's diesel auxiliary generators.

 

However, to save fuel, the auxiliary generators were not used and the ship's air-conditioning was rationed for the next two weeks to the revenue-producing areas of the ship and the VIP decks.

 

Passengers were not informed as to the cause of the failed air-conditioning in many parts of the ship.

 

My cabin remained at 80 degrees or above both day and night for two weeks. And again I was told that I had no recourse. Notably other passengers were relocated when they complained."

Edited November 21, 2013 by OlsSalt

[iancal]

Does it matter?

 

At the end of the day cruisers in certain cabins were left with no A/C-a number from day one of the cruise. And this is NOT a new occurance. According to CC comments this has been the situation over many months in both warm and cooler climes.

 

Does it matter if there was no A/C because of sub standard maintenance or no A/C because of he failure to engage the auxiliary generators?

 

The bottom line is exactly the same. Certain cruisers did not get what they paid for (Signature of Excellence???), HAL knowingly sold cabins in areas where there were ongoing issues, and the front desk played 'hear no evil see no evil' and 'musical chairs'.

 

And the notion put forth by some that the A/C failed because of the outside temperature, tropics, etc is simply an apologists excuse. It seems to me that neither Princess, Celebrity, or other cruise lines have experienced these same challenges to the same degree and certainly not to the same regularity.. Indeed, as I recall, other HAL ships (other than the poor Veendam) have not experienced this issue to this extent on the canal run.

Edited November 21, 2013 by iancal

[OlsSalt]

Does it matter?

 

At the end of the day cruisers in certain cabins were left with no A/C. And this is NOT a new occurance. According to CC comments this has been the situation over many months in both warm and cooler climes.

 

Does it matter if there was no A/C because of sub standard maintenance or no A/C because of he failure to engage the auxiliary generators?

 

The bottom line is exactly the same. Certain cruisers did not get what they paid for (Signature of Excellence???), HAL knowingly sold cabins in areas where there were ongoing issues, and the front desk played 'hear no evil see no evil' and 'musical chairs'.

 

And the notion put forth by some that the A/C failed because of the outside temperature, tropics, etc is simply an apologists excuse. It seems to me that neither Princess, Celebrity, or other cruise lines have experienced these same challenges. Indeed, as I recall, other HAL ships (other than the poor Veendam) have not experience this issue on the canal run.

 

It matters if this is a problem of poor inherent design that cannot be fixed, an elective choice by HAL management, or merely broken equipment at that time that has been now been repaired.

 

Helps people to understand what risks they want to take and/or whether to avoid the ship entirely. Or what pricing level to expect if this "no A/C" response was a cost-cutting ploy by HAL management.

[iancal]

I hear you.

 

We tend to be extremely risk adverse when it comes to our vacation dollars and our vacation time.

 

This is especially on a cruise when we are buttoned up for days with no real option to' check out' and go to another hotel/resort.

Edited November 21, 2013 by iancal

[OlsSalt]

I hear you.

 

We tend to be extremely risk adverse when it comes to our vacation dollars and our vacation time.

 

This is especially on a cruise when we are buttoned up for days with no real option to' check out' and go to another hotel/resort.

 

I hear you too. And you make a good point, it is not like you can go somewhere else. I hope future reports from the Zuiderdam show this problem has been fixed. Other member reviews of the Z tend to dwell on service or entertainment disappointments per those passenger's tastes.

 

But most encouraging is seeing the Z MDR remains top flight for all these years. Not sure what they do so right in that department that cannot be translated fleet wide because that is our lingering memory of the Z too - the best MDR of any HAL ship so far.

[iancal]

I was once told by a ship engineer never to get a cabin in an area of a cruise ship (immediate vicinity beside, above, or below) where extra cabins had been added.

 

He said that in his experience the renovations simply extended HVAC and plumbing runs this reducing the efficiency of all the other cabins on the run-especially when the systems were originally designed to low tolerances.

 

He also said that the HVAC systems will loose as much as 30 percent of their efficiency over time and that this could only be recaptured thru rebuilds or replacement of compressor systems.

 

Not certain how true this is. I do not know if Z has had any cabins or significant layout changes in public areas since it was built.

Edited November 21, 2013 by iancal