Ukrainian Unrest - Black Sea Cruise April 25, 2014

[bohaiboy]

So GatorGal, where would you want to go or not want to go if part of our Itin was cancelled? We have been to Athens and Santorini, but no where else in the area of the Aegean Sea. Would not mind maybe Crete or Cyprus, plus other Turkey destinations. I wonder how they arrive at where it would be? I have spoken to another couple and they indicated they would cancel if eh Black Sea Ports were deleted. I see fur being deleted, Sochi, Yalta, Sevastopol and Odessa. I don't want to spend all of our time cruising with as this was a very port intensive itin and that is what we wanted.

[wripro]

I would start thinking about another cruise immediately. Why stay with this itinerary which is very specific and unique when you'll probably wind up doing a Greek island cruise? Unless you're fine with that.

[drron29]

now quite a bit of footage of Russian troops in Odessa.Not getting any/much resistance.

This could mean the Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine will rejoin Russia whilst the rest goes it alone.

However I doubt there are too many cool heads on either side.

Personally I wouldn't be pulling the pin right now but definitely be watching events closely.

[Seafairer]

I was wondering if anyone here has called Silversea about this. And if those who are booked on the April voyage did so through a travel agent, you might be able to get some advance information about Silversea's plans. Agents generally have good insider connections with their Silversea reps. They'll help with your decision and facilitate your needs if you decide to make any changes.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Seafairer

[UKCruiseJeff]

now quite a bit of footage of Russian troops in Odessa.Not getting any/much resistance.

This could mean the Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine will rejoin Russia whilst the rest goes it alone.

However I doubt there are too many cool heads on either side.

Personally I wouldn't be pulling the pin right now but definitely be watching events closely.

 

Sadly it isn't now really a matter of "resistance". The Russian Army has disarmed the army in Crimea. This was ostensibly to ensure the arms "didn't fall into the wrong hands" - which is a pretence.

 

This means that if there is any outbreaks of attacks by Nationals on Russian Crimeans, the home Crimean Army are no longer able to offer protection to their own population. This offers the exact excuse that Russia needs to start shooting and take over Crimea and all that that might lead to.

 

I hope all of us think and feel for all those poor people contemplating their uncertain future.

[drron29]

Crimea has already been taken over.The head of the Ukrainian navy has defected to Russia.

Also only about 25% of those living in the Crimea are Ukrainian,the rest mostly Russian.

The question is whether the Russians are going to invade the rest of Ukraine.I don't have much faith in Putin.He probably thinks he is on a roll.

[wripro]

Let's not forget that the Caucusus, headquarters for terrorists is part of Crimea and there will certainly be paybacks to Putin for the invasion. It's a bad scenario all around.

[GatorGal]

I just called Silversea and the agent said they are monitoring the situation but had made no decisions. I told her there was a Travel Warning issued by the U.S. State Dept., and she said she knew that, but there are no changes made currently. She also said it is their practice to go to other ports not on the itinerary right now, rather than cancel. That will work for my family, as we have not been to any parts of the Black Sea and it will all be new and interesting for us. Hey, we'll have fun on the ship, too, don't forget!:)

[wripro]

As long as the ports they substitute are on the Black Sea. They could substitute Greek islands making it a totally different cruise.

[CanadianKate]

Being the person who counts every penny before picking her cruises, I will point out that the Black Sea cruise has a higher per diem than other Med cruises or cruises with a high percentage of sea days. Therefore, I'd be looking to cancel unless I got almost exactly what I paid for.

 

The Black Sea is on our longer term list (along with Norwegian Fjords and sailing under Tower Bridge.) Thankfully, I've got to finish my first goal first, then I can start planning those other destinations. Maybe things will settle down in the next few years.

[bohaiboy]

As long as the ports they substitute are on the Black Sea. They could substitute Greek islands making it a totally different cruise.

 

I reviewed every major player in the Black Sea. There is only one additional port that most lines stop at, and that is Sinop on the northern coast of Turkey. There are no other major ports and most likely the smaller ports are not equipped to handle even a ship the size of the Wind.

 

My guess is that we would sea day, hit Sinop, Trabzon, Batumi, cross over (with an extra sea day) to Constanta, then Nessebar, then to other areas of Turkey to the south, but I also see another sea day somewhere in there.

 

THere are about 3-4 ports on the west coast of Turkey that major cruise lines frequent, Marmaris, Bodrum, Rhodes Greece, Izmir/Ephesus, Dikil, and Canakkale. Silversea also makes stops in Chios Greece just off the Turkish coast.

[bohaiboy]

Thanks Barbara for the link

 

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2014/03/

[bohaiboy]

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer all non-essential travel to Ukraine, and particularly the Crimean Peninsula, due to the potential for instability following the departure of former President Yanukovych, the establishment of a new government, and the movement of Russian troops in Crimea. Groups have staged protests, set up roadblocks, and occupied government buildings in several cities throughout Ukraine since November 2013. All U.S. citizens in Ukraine, and those considering travel to Ukraine, should evaluate their personal security situation in light of political instability and the possibility of violence. This supersedes the Travel Warning for Ukraine dated February 28, 2014, to provide updated information regarding the return of dependent family members of U.S. government personnel.

 

On March 6, the Department of State authorized the return of family members of U.S. government personnel to Ukraine. Peace Corps Volunteers departed Ukraine on February 25, 2014, and remain out of the country at this time. U.S. Embassy Kyiv’s Consular Section is open for all public services. The Embassy’s ability to respond to emergencies involving U.S. citizens in other parts of Ukraine is limited.

 

The Department of State urges U.S. citizens who travel to Ukraine to carefully evaluate the risks posed to their personal safety, particularly in Crimea and the eastern oblasts of Donetsk, Lugansk, and Kharkiv. While the transition to a new government has been largely peaceful, the police presence in Kyiv and other cities remains limited and there is still a potential for violence between supporters of different political parties. Since February 27, demonstrations and clashes have occurred in several cities in Ukraine.

 

Ground transportation may be disrupted throughout the country. Drivers, especially in Crimea, may encounter roadblocks that restrict access on certain roads. Commercial air travel could be delayed or cancelled with little or no notice. Travelers should check with their airlines for possible flight delays or cancellations prior to travel.

The situation in Ukraine is unpredictable and could change quickly. U.S. citizens throughout Ukraine should avoid large crowds. Those in Kyiv should keep away from the downtown areas of Kyiv near Independence Square and government buildings. U.S. citizens should be prepared to remain indoors for extended periods of time should clashes occur in their vicinity.

 

Protests in Kyiv began on November 21, 2013, following the Government of Ukraine’s announcement that it was suspending preparations to sign an association agreement with the European Union. On February 22, following three months of large protests and violent clashes, former President Yanukovych departed Kyiv. The Ukrainian Parliament established a new government on February 27. Groups that oppose the new government and support closer ties with Russia have staged demonstrations in cities throughout eastern and southern Ukraine. Russian troops have occupied several government buildings, including airports, and established roadblocks on the Crimean Peninsula.

 

U.S. citizens living or traveling in Ukraine are strongly encouraged to enroll in the Department of State'sSmart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive the latest travel updates and to obtain updated information on security within Ukraine. By enrolling, U.S. citizens make it easier for the Embassy to contact them in case of emergency.

For inquiries regarding U.S. citizens in Ukraine related to the current unrest, please call 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444, or email the Department of State at UkraineEmergencyUSC@state.gov. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays). For emergency assistance for U.S. citizens in Ukraine, you may contact the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv at +380-44-521-5000 during regular business hours, or after-hours at +380-44-521-5000. The U.S. Embassy is located at 4 A.I. Sikorsky St. (formerly Tankova) in Kyiv.

For the latest security information, U.S. citizens should regularly monitor the Department of State's Bureau of Consular AffairsInternet website, where the current Worldwide Caution, Travel Alerts, Travel Warnings, andCountry Specific Informationcan be found. Follow us on Twitter and the Bureau of Consular Affairs page on Facebook as well. Up-to-date information on security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).

[Travelcat2]

Wouldn't Silversea impose their normal penalty if people on April's Black Sea cruise cancel?

[Keith1010]

Wouldn't Silversea impose their normal penalty if people on April's Black Sea cruise cancel?

 

 

I am sure they would as all cruise lines would and have their terms set up that allow for this as do the other lines do too.

 

Keith

Edited March 8, 2014 by Keith1010

[bohaiboy]

As per SS Website

120 – 91 days prior to the initial sailing date:

15% of the total cruise fare per person

 

 

90 – 46 days prior to the initial sailing date:

50% of the total cruise fare per person We are at T-Minus 48 days

 

 

45 – 31 days prior to the initial sailing date:

75% of the total cruise fare per person

 

 

30 – 0 days prior to the initial sailing

date or non-appearance at the time of sailing:

100% of the total cruise fare per person

 

 

If you purchased airfare you are totally out of luck

 

60 – 0 days prior to the initial sailing date:

$100 per person processing fee and 100% of the Air Package fare paid

 

 

15. ITINERARY/CHANGES/SUBSTITUTION OF VESSELS

Passenger acknowledges and agrees that the scheduled itinerary for the Voyage and the announced departure and arrival times are not

guaranteed. Carrier reserves the right to substitute another vessel for the scheduled Vessel whether or not owned or operated by Carrier. Any

part of this Ticket and the Voyage is subject to cancellation, delay, modification, or port-of-call cancellation for any reason of and including but

not limited to, stress of weather, prevailing weather conditions, exigencies of safe navigation, navigation through regulated waters, ports and

channels, Force Majeure, acts of God, labor conflicts, war, hostilities, blockages, explosion, fire, collision, stranding or foundering of the Vessel

or breakdown of the Vessel or failure of or damage to the Vessel or its hull or machinery or fittings howsoever and wheresoever any of the same

may arise or be caused, or civil commotion, acts of terrorism, riot, insurrection, arrest, order or restraint by governmental authorities (including

due to the actions of port officials), requisitioning of the Vessel, political disturbance, acts or threats of terrorism, inability to secure or obtain or

failure of supplies including fuel, strikes onboard or ashore, airline strikes, docking difficulties, congestion, customs or immigration restrictions

attributable to the travel documents, health certificates, or nationalities of persons onboard, directions of underwriters, search and rescue, medical

disembarkation of crew or Passengers or any other circumstances beyond Carrier’s control. If necessary in the sole discretion of Carrier, Carrier

may substitute ports-of-call or otherwise make itinerary changes. Except as set forth in Section 16, Carrier shall not be liable to Passengers for

any damages or other claims in the event of any delay, changes in itinerary or inability to perform this Ticket by reason of the occurrence of any

event or events described in this section.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Wouldn't Silversea impose their normal penalty if people on April's Black Sea cruise cancel?

 

Not going to go over "old ground" again, if you made your booking in some overseas territories including the UK and Oz "unfair" terms and conditions are unenforceable including this type of clause in this type of situation. In essence consumers can ignore any unfair clause and unfair in the UK is widely interpreted to be very genorously consumer biaised.

 

I am ill-informed or more accurately pretty much un-informed with respect to US consumer legislation but understand there is far less protection and you are pretty much stuck with clauses in contracts you agreed to. A symptom of wall-street / corporate friendly administrations I guess.

[PaulaJK]

Our Black Sea cruise included Sevastopol, Yalta & Odessa. If I were booked on this itinerary for anytime soon, I would be very concerned both about actually visiting these ports and about these ports [the focus of the cruise] being cancelled. I realize that cruise lines may/may need to cancel ports but if the itinerary is 'Black Sea' then I think that the line would precipitate enormous ill will if they did not allow some options.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Our Black Sea cruise included Sevastopol, Yalta & Odessa. If I were booked on this itinerary for anytime soon, I would be very concerned both about actually visiting these ports and about these ports [the focus of the cruise] being cancelled. I realize that cruise lines may/may need to cancel ports but if the itinerary is 'Black Sea' then I think that the line would precipitate enormous ill will if they did not allow some options.

 

Which country did you book from and did you use a credit card?

[PaulaJK]

Jeff,

 

I am not booked on this cruise. I was just 'thinking along'. For myself, when taking a cruise to Alaska or the Black Sea or Russia, the ports are central to the definition of the cruise, in a way that is different from the Caribbean or a World Cruise. When you cancel Alaska, Black Sea or perhaps[near future] Russian ports, it seems as though it becomes a different cruise. I realize that the cruise line has the right to do this...and I also imagine that some passengers would be happy to sail anyway, but I hope that there is some flexibility such as allowing pax to switch to other cruises. I anticipate that many passengers trapped on a cruise to Alaska that does not visit Alaska, will not be happy campers or repeat passengers.

 

Under the usual ship contracts in the USA I am uncertain that your credit card company could be of any assistance but, thankfully, have not had the experience.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jeff,

 

I am not booked on this cruise. I was just 'thinking along'. For myself, when taking a cruise to Alaska or the Black Sea or Russia, the ports are central to the definition of the cruise, in a way that is different from the Caribbean or a World Cruise. When you cancel Alaska, Black Sea or perhaps[near future] Russian ports, it seems as though it becomes a different cruise. I realize that the cruise line has the right to do this...and I also imagine that some passengers would be happy to sail anyway, but I hope that there is some flexibility such as allowing pax to switch to other cruises. I anticipate that many passengers trapped on a cruise to Alaska that does not visit Alaska, will not be happy campers or repeat passengers.

 

Under the usual ship contracts in the USA I am uncertain that your credit card company could be of any assistance but, thankfully, have not had the experience.

 

Totally agree ... and understand. Sadly, as my experience of US consumer protection has been neglected all I can do is commiserate with those in The US generally rather than offer experience based advice. Sorry to those ... but good luck.

 

:(

Edited March 8, 2014 by UKCruiseJeff

[wripro]

imo this has become not so much a safety issue, which, of course, it is, but also a moral issue. Crimea will now be Russian and do we want to give our dollars to the Russian government after this flagrant disregard of international law? The same holds true for Baltic cruises btw. Just something to think about.

[UKCruiseJeff]

imo this has become not so much a safety issue, which, of course, it is, but also a moral issue. Crimea will now be Russian and do we want to give our dollars to the Russian government after this flagrant disregard of international law? The same holds true for Baltic cruises btw. Just something to think about.

 

I perfectly understand the sentiment and would agree with the conclusion, but I disagree with the basis on which it is based.

 

Even if you were not to be spending money in port it would be the ordinary working Crimean people that would be being punished not the Russian government. Just because people hold the views they do - most of which do not stem from free thought but as all nationalistic and religous tendencies emnate from wherever we happen to be born and whoever the parents we happen to be born from and who tell us who we are - and so I guess we should not punish people simply because they hold different beliefs.

 

I aslo believe it would be wrong to forget the longer relationships we have had. The Russian people have made enormous sacrifices for us Brits - let is not forget against the terrible madness of the lunatic German Kaiser and the Crimea et al has in the past been a central and important part of it. If you were to substitute the USA for Russia what would really be different in the reaction to perceived risk?

 

Understanding the history of how we got to where we currently are and listening and being empathetic often leads to a better and faster solution than posturing and threatening.

 

Just my rather (as usual) unusual opinion.

 

:)

[GatorGal]

What is the normal penalty you reference?:confused:

[GatorGal]

So much profit is at stake for SS, surely they are scrambling like fury to work this out. They haven't contacted me to seek my opinion :D, but I would be a happy passenger if we stayed over two nights at certain ports on the itinerary to fill out the 10 days on the Black Sea. That way we could do city-based excursions one day and countryside the other day in one port.

Edited March 8, 2014 by GatorGal