Is MSC Making RyanAir Mistakes ?

[GrandyMandy]

We are black members with MSC and very happy with the product, however, there seems to be an ever increasing groundswell of unhappy clients.

Originally, the complaints were mainly about the website and customer service. Those complaints are still very much in evidence, but are now being added to, in regard to solo passengers and different country websites and cruise availabilities.

 

Ryanair, have now found, to their cost, that they are having to rethink the idea that their customers are of no account, and Mike O'Leary has had to turn on the charm ! in order to appease his shareholders. MSC is a private company, but they too may alienate their loyal client base, as many of the posters on this site become more dissatisfied with the product and turn elsewhere.

 

Mandy.

Edited February 22, 2014 by GrandyMandy

[MotownVoice]

If it was as you say, then I would tend to agree with you. But it's not. There are about a dozen users jilted by some perceived misdoing and have been canvassing the website to simulate a dissatisfied crowd.

 

But if you start keeping track of the user names you will quickly see the difference between people with a legitimate beef, and people who just amuse themselves by stopping in to Cruise Critic a couple times a week to fan the flame.

 

Most people come here to share their experiences and advice, others to benefit from that experience.

 

While the complainers do go out of their way to create new bitch threads to keep the main menu populated with negative sentiments ... you can easily track down who they are and either put them all on ignore, or know when to walk past a thread.

[anniegb]

Interesting POV Mandy. You have sailed with them a lot more than I have.

 

Certainly MSC UK office have certainly not handled the Armonia fiasco(s) well.

 

The delay in marketing the Orchestra cruise to Oz did not help either.

 

On my 1st MSC cruise (March 2013) , many Europeans and UK couples complained vociferously about the 'preferential' treatment UK solo passengers enjoyed. That situation was never going to continue especially when GH took charge.

 

Everyone has to decide what they think is an appropriate price point for the MSC product. Their proposed price levels for solo occupancy of a balcony are higher than I have paid for any other cruise line including Celebrity - so I will take any future cruise bookings elsewhere - simple.

 

If they return to what I call 'sensible pricing' I may return but there is never a guarantee.

 

Annie

[JoLoca2208]

GrandyMandy, are you surprised really? I'm not!!! Last year we've complained on this forum on ridiculous customer service we've received on board MSC Fantasia.

There were number of MSC fans who basically laughed at us for criticizing MSC.

In the past year, those same MSC Fans, came back on this forum with alarming news, that MSC changed itinerary of their cruise without even informing them etc...There were number of changes made by MSC in the past few months, and our MSC fans don't seem to be happy with it, and they are complaining. I didn't want to say anything earlier, as I didn't want to start a dispute, but I feel its the time to say it now.

[AmoMondo]

I like you Mandy am a black Card member who has always enjoyed the onboard experienc and am sure I will do so again when I sail next month.

 

The bargain solo and repo fares were inevitably going to increase at some point and I was accustomed to paying more years ago before the credit crunch. The admin could be a bit hit and miss at times onshore in the UK office and others it would appear also. Too much power in Napoli leading to delays.

 

I've been sailing with them for 9 years and there is more going on than just price increases and a few dissatisfied posters with an axe to grind. We've got a new man in charge at the UK office and things are certainly changing as a result. They say one thing and do another. They most definitely said on a UK webinar that the Australian repo would be available to purchase as a whole or the first or second half - they went back on that. They assured many who asked that they still welcomed solo passengers - yet there are no so many cruises you can't book of you are a solo, even with a supplement.

 

The latest is the double booking on the Armonia where people are being downgraded. I can't make up my mind whether this has come about through incompetence and central reservations not keeping a track of what different countries were selling or a deliberate ploy to bump,people who booked suites under the £45 pp per day promo almost a year ago and resell at a much higher price.

 

It seems the new man is more interested in attracting new customers than dealing fairly and reasonably with existing customers.

 

Ryanair have found to their cost that they cannot continually treat customers with contempt and not pay the price. Hopefully MSC will learn the lesson quicker. I love the onboard experience but not sure I'll be sailing again with them again after the Armonia next month. Can't get booked anyway as I'm not travelling a s a family or a couple.

[Norwegian Cruiser 73]

Is it just in the UK that you can't book solo/single cabin? I have now checked a European online TA and it's no problem to book a cabin for one person, at 50 % single supplement in several itineraries.

[anniegb]

Is it just in the UK that you can't book solo/single cabin? I have now checked a European online TA and it's no problem to book a cabin for one person, at 50 % single supplement in several itineraries.

 

I tested a European on-line TA which will quote me for solo occupancy but not allocate a cabin.

 

Annie

[AmoMondo]

Is it just in the UK that you can't book solo/single cabin? I have now checked a European online TA and it's no problem to book a cabin for one person, at 50 % single supplement in several itineraries.

 

Yes just appears to be a UK policy to drastically reduce bookings accepted from solos.

[anniegb]

Yes just appears to be a UK policy to drastically reduce bookings accepted from solos.

 

See post #7

 

Annie

[AmoMondo]

See post #7

 

Annie

 

If they have not changed this policy by next year, I may well try using a TA from another European country. Just hope 8d still get my 20% Club discount.

[anniegb]

If they have not changed this policy by next year, I may well try using a TA from another European country. Just hope 8d still get my 20% Club discount.

 

I just wonder if this policy has originated in Europe ?

 

I have just tested a European TA who tell me no cabins are available for solos for any of the 5 random cruises/cabins selected.

 

This was not the position 1 month ago.

 

Annie

[AmoMondo]

Who knows what's going on here. Maybe solos are now only welcome on cruises they can't fully sell. It's a stupid policy, as the number of households in the UK with only one occupant are on the increase. If they charge as a supplement, then they will often make more from us than they will from a family with 2 kids sailing for free and perhaps on a tight budget.

 

As you mentioned previously, there are other lines who are happy to accept solo passengers.

[Norwegian Cruiser 73]

I tested a European on-line TA which will quote me for solo occupancy but not allocate a cabin.

 

Annie

 

You are so correct, no cabin allocation when I tested now. Hopefully this will be sorted out for the solocruisers:)

[anniegb]

You are so correct, no cabin allocation when I tested now. Hopefully this will be sorted out for the solocruisers:)

 

You are optimistic :)

 

I think with the Lirica lengthening project, this restriction on sales to solos may continue for some time unless as Amo says they have a flash sale to shift unwanted cabins.

 

Annie

[forbesfan]

You are right Mandy about the probs with customer service and the fact that MSC have a good product at sea. But I feel it is more simple regarding the barriers going up for us singles. Over the last few years MSC have increased their number of cabins at a very steep rate as other lines have done, they have also put a lot into marketing in new and emerging areas of the world, China, Korea, Japan and Russia to name a few. My feeling is that they are now able to sell their cabins much easier and at higher rates and the crunch for us singles at higher occupant rates. There has been speak of more ships but to my knowledge nothing has been published all we have in regard to increase passenger capacity is enlarging the Lirica class ships. Basically I think MSC are finding it easier to sell their product because they are selling to a wider market plus I think people are waking up to the fact that the product is good, poor reviews are not so common as they were 3/4 years ago when I first discovered MSC. Sad for me and other singles but they are a business and at the end of the day the UK is maybe quite a small market for MSC.

 

 

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Forbesfan

[anniegb]

You are right Mandy about the probs with customer service and the fact that MSC have a good product at sea. But I feel it is more simple regarding the barriers going up for us singles. Over the last few years MSC have increased their number of cabins at a very steep rate as other lines have done, they have also put a lot into marketing in new and emerging areas of the world, China, Korea, Japan and Russia to name a few. My feeling is that they are now able to sell their cabins much easier and at higher rates and the crunch for us singles at higher occupant rates. There has been speak of more ships but to my knowledge nothing has been published all we have in regard to increase passenger capacity is enlarging the Lirica class ships. Basically I think MSC are finding it easier to sell their product because they are selling to a wider market plus I think people are waking up to the fact that the product is good, poor reviews are not so common as they were 3/4 years ago when I first discovered MSC. Sad for me and other singles but they are a business and at the end of the day the UK is maybe quite a small market for MSC.

 

 

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Forbesfan

 

I agree and disagree.

 

However it does not explain why the returning Lirica repo, which is on sale at £450 imcluding flights and transfers, is not available to solo passengers.

 

What do we have to do - book double occupancy and claim your cabin share fell ill??

 

Annie

[Elmartellama]

With all due respect, you should really differentiate a real lack of service (like downgrading someone with a reservation) from a marketing strategy, like the one regarding the solo occupancy promotions.

 

I agree, MSC is terribly inconsistent regarding its fleet deployment. You can book a cruise and the next thing you know they change the itinerary or even the region. In some cases it is justified by geopolitical risks like the Egypt cruise, in other cases it is not.

 

If they downgraded people without proper compensation, I think they made a terrible mistake and should rectify.

 

We cannot complain, since they change the itinerary of our Fantasia cruise in June 2014 and they compensated us with 100€ in OBC. In our case the sailing / departure dates were just the same, it was only that they changed all the ports dates and hours. I think the solution was very good and even generous since it implied no real loss for us, thus I find hard to believe what happened to others. And if they made a mistake, I am more inclined to see it as a mistake, rather than as an elaborate plan coming from some evil-minded person.

 

Regarding the solo offers and promotions. Well, I'm sorry but it is up to the company to decide their prices and it is up to the customers to buy their product. The cruising world today is highly competitive, if you don't like their rates then go find another company. It is not as if MSC had the monopoly on any market and they were imposing infamous rates.

 

I understand that a solo passenger always wants the best rate possible, but quite frankly, if a cruise is selling well I would not offer a low rate for a solo, if I were to decide a price scheme. Solo passengers occupy the very same room and pay less than a couple, not only for the room but also for the drinks, excursions and extras.

 

So it is totally understandable, from an objective point of view, that MSC only offers great solo promotions on certain itineraries where demand is low, while on others they don't offer the service at all.

 

The solution for this are the special solo rooms that NCL and now RCI will offer. Maybe MSC could copy their examples in the new ships.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Elmartellama

[maryann2]

 

 

 

So it is totally understandable, from an objective point of view, that MSC only offers great solo promotions on certain itineraries where demand is low, while on others they don't offer the service at all.

 

The solution for this are the special solo rooms that NCL and now RCI will offer. Maybe MSC could copy their examples in the new ships.

 

The solo supplement has always been an issue with other lines. Carnival used to offer a 150% supplement on their 1A porthole cabins but a few years ago did away with those prices and charged 200% across the board.

 

Royal and Celebrity used to have some 125% or 150% solo deals but recently they have changed their policy also and are now charging 200% on all cabins including last minute deals. They do give double online points now though.

I was fortunate to get a balcony on the Independence TA in May with no solo supplement but that will probably be my last cruise on Royal for a while.

Norwegian also charges solos 200%. Their solo cabins are actually more expensive than booking a regular inside and paying double. They started out at half price but that didn't last.

 

It seems the only way to get deals now is after final payment last minute deals.

Carnival waives the supplement on some last minute sailings now. However Royal and Celebrity are charging 200%.

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/sales/exciting_deals/XcitingDeals_cel_tues.pdf

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/Multi_Dest/Special_Offers/rci_sales_event.pdf

[AmoMondo]

You're missing the point about our gripe about their treatment of solos. It's not that they're charging us a higher price or supplement - I expect to pay a supplement. The gripe is they won't let us book at all, at any price. even although cabins are available. Put in. 2 passengers on the website and there are. Arious cabins available, put in 1 and it comes up nothing available at that occupancy. Before we could book available cabins with supplements varying from zero (mainly repos) up to 100%. Try different weeks and you still get the same. They are either now only allowing a few of us on a cruise and then blocking it to others or in some cases, blocking the ship - Lirica not available to a solo any week, even last minute when a cabin remains unsold.

[maryann2]

You're missing the point about our gripe about their treatment of solos. It's not that they're charging us a higher price or supplement - I expect to pay a supplement. The gripe is they won't let us book at all, at any price. even although cabins are available. Put in. 2 passengers on the website and there are. Arious cabins available, put in 1 and it comes up nothing available at that occupancy. Before we could book available cabins with supplements varying from zero (mainly repos) up to 100%. Try different weeks and you still get the same. They are either now only allowing a few of us on a cruise and then blocking it to others or in some cases, blocking the ship - Lirica not available to a solo any week, even last minute when a cabin remains unsold.

 

Actually Celebrity has been doing this for a while on certain sailings.

I think it also has to do with the service charge or tips whatever they want to call it.

[anniegb]

Actually Celebrity has been doing this for a while on certain sailings.

I think it also has to do with the service charge or tips whatever they want to call it.

 

We'll I have always been lucky every time then with RCI and Celebrity - never paid 100% supplement and never booked last minute.

 

In fact I have just noticed on a well known website that RCI will sell a balcony on a NZ cruise to a solo for 12% supplement. Pity I have a land trip booked or I would be right in there.

 

Celebrity Tuesday Specials can but not always carry the 100% supplement.

 

Annie

[maryann2]

We'll I have always been lucky every time then with RCI and Celebrity - never paid 100% supplement and never booked last minute.

 

In fact I have just noticed on a well known website that RCI will sell a balcony on a NZ cruise to a solo for 12% supplement. Pity I have a land trip booked or I would be right in there.

 

Celebrity Tuesday Specials can but not always carry the 100% supplement.

 

Annie

They have recently changed their policy.

If you do a fake booking on the RCI NZ cruise you will find it is 200%.

 

That site that shows solo supplements is notorious for getting it wrong.

As I posted the links the Tuesday specials are now also 200%

 

A few months ago they were showing the Allure for 110%.

[Elmartellama]

You're missing the point about our gripe about their treatment of solos. It's not that they're charging us a higher price or supplement - I expect to pay a supplement. The gripe is they won't let us book at all, at any price. even although cabins are available. Put in. 2 passengers on the website and there are. Arious cabins available, put in 1 and it comes up nothing available at that occupancy. Before we could book available cabins with supplements varying from zero (mainly repos) up to 100%. Try different weeks and you still get the same. They are either now only allowing a few of us on a cruise and then blocking it to others or in some cases, blocking the ship - Lirica not available to a solo any week, even last minute when a cabin remains unsold.

 

I frankly don't keep track on these things, but MSC and any other company will always prefer a solo occupancy room than an empty room.

 

So if all the lines act the same way, the explanation is that they prefer to sell the rooms for couples or families occupancy if they anticipate that demand will be high enough to fill the ship.

 

Since demand it's not constant and it fluctuates from ship to ship and from sailing to sailing, the logic underneath it's quite clear.

 

They are companies and they only want to maximize profits. And short term profits to be precise.

 

In a full ship scenario, if a cruise company makes let's say 70% of their income of each passenger from the cruise fare, and 30% from the rest, you can understand that even if a solo traveller can pay the same price for a room as a couple, they would on average lose a 15% margin out of that room. Therefore, they should charge on average a 242% to solo cruisers to just make even.

 

My guess is that they block solo cruisers in sailings when historical data and sales projections show that they can fill the ship.

[sidari]

Solo passengers occupy the very same room and pay less than a couple, not only for the room but also for the drinks, excursions and extras.

 

Are you not assuming here that the "couple" will actually be drinkers and will book excursions ? in some cases a Solo traveler may well spend more than a couple.

[anniegb]

I frankly don't keep track on these things, but MSC and any other company will always prefer a solo occupancy room than an empty room.

 

So if all the lines act the same way, the explanation is that they prefer to sell the rooms for couples or families occupancy if they anticipate that demand will be high enough to fill the ship.

 

Since demand it's not constant and it fluctuates from ship to ship and from sailing to sailing, the logic underneath it's quite clear.

 

They are companies and they only want to maximize profits. And short term profits to be precise.

 

In a full ship scenario, if a cruise company makes let's say 70% of their income of each passenger from the cruise fare, and 30% from the rest, you can understand that even if a solo traveller can pay the same price for a room as a couple, they would on average lose a 15% margin out of that room. Therefore, they should charge on average a 242% to solo cruisers to just make even.

 

My guess is that they block solo cruisers in sailings when historical data and sales projections show that they can fill the ship.

 

A lot of assumptions and no empirical data.

 

Annie