Service Charges on NCL

[MyNameIsJack]

We always reduce the DISCRETIONARY fee to $0 since it is discretionary they are saying we don't have to pay it.

[hpecorari]

We always reduce the DISCRETIONARY fee to $0 since it is discretionary they are saying we don't have to pay it.

 

 

I'll take this as a joke, similar to your joke about leaving 'pop' at home in another thread.

 

Harriet

[B6ConMe]

I'll take this as a joke, similar to your joke about leaving 'pop' at home in another thread.

 

Harriet

 

Just as I was about to start making some popcorn .... :p

[Out to sea!]

Problem is we have no idea how many of the crew share in the service charges. Assuming 1500 crew on the Epic split it that's $22.40 on the week. Of course neither of us has any idea of all of the numbers so speculating really doesn't get us anywhere. I too hate to see the crew get stiffed, I just don't see the answer in what you are proposing. (and for a family of 7 that's $588 that has to be paid 75 days before the cruise, not on the cruise itself, assuming of course the increase is only $12 per day and extra isn't tacked on behind the scenes.)

 

You were speculating on the 10%, I just showed real numbers based on that 10% speculation. A family of 7 is worried about the $588 after they have already spent $3,500 for the cruise (and how many families of 7 do you see out there......if you want to cause panic, why not throw out a family or 12 or 40??)? Complaining about paying the extra $84 75 days out is like complaining about paying the port charges 75 days before you go to a port and I haven't seen anyone complaining about that (although now that they recognize that it may start another new thread). And just think, your cruise is truly paid for when you step on the ship (assuming you don't buy anything on board which is easily done if one chooses).

Edited April 11, 2014 by Out to sea!

[hpecorari]

Just as I was about to start making some popcorn .... :p

 

LOL - At first I wondered if he was related to or was GuitarGuyFH who started up a new ID today with this being his 2nd post. Then I read his first post and decided he was either joking or wanted to make trouble. I choose to think he's joking.

 

Harriet

[Out to sea!]

21st of August, 2001.... 3 weeks before 9/11.

 

Ah. Weird date format.

[sparks1093]

You were speculating on the 10%, i just showed real numbers based on that 10% speculation. And it's not $584 more (not $588) that has to be paid 75 days out, it's only the $84 extra that has to be paid out the cruise, port charges, and taxes hves to be paid for no matter what 75 days out). Complaining about paying the extra $84 75 days out is like complaining about paying the port charges 75 days before you go to a port and I haven't seen anyone complaining about that (although now that they recognize that it may start another new thread). And just think, your cruise is truly paid for when you step on the ship (assuming you don't buy anything on board which is easily done if one chooses).

 

It is speculation based on what I believe to be a reliable source and I believe he said that "up to 10%", it does vary by cruise so it's not even 10% per cruise.

 

It's $84 per person for the week so for a family of seven (like mine) that equals an increase of $588 that must be paid prior to the cruise, by final payment date. There are many people that complain about the idea of having to pay for service before it's rendered. If this were a really pressing issue NCL would address it somehow. That they haven't leads me to believe that there is not a significant problem. (And if people had the option to wait to pay the port charges until they were on the cruise how many would opt for it? My guess is a good number because people tend to like holding onto their money as long as they can.)

[Out to sea!]

It is speculation based on what I believe to be a reliable source and I believe he said that "up to 10%", it does vary by cruise so it's not even 10% per cruise.

 

It's $84 per person for the week so for a family of seven (like mine) that equals an increase of $588 that must be paid prior to the cruise, by final payment date. There are many people that complain about the idea of having to pay for service before it's rendered. If this were a really pressing issue NCL would address it somehow. That they haven't leads me to believe that there is not a significant problem. (And if people had the option to wait to pay the port charges until they were on the cruise how many would opt for it? My guess is a good number because people tend to like holding onto their money as long as they can.)

 

Tell me, based on your unusual family size of 7 (and in reality very, very few families of 7 are seen on a cruise), how much interest would you earn in 75 days on that $588? 25 cents......maybe? For most (a couple) it would be $168 which would equate to about 9 cents in interest over the 75 days. As I said, if people want to complain about paying for service before service is rendered, when will the thread start about paying for port charges before a port is visited? This is a way to keep people from cheating the system, something I abhor so this practice would be a good way to keep that from happening.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Out to sea!

[Tutankhamen]

"It is unfortunate that we couldn't have a intellectual debate" I believed that you and I were but you keep lumping me in with others posting to this thread.

 

Sparks, yes and sorry for lumping you in with the one that wants to take a discussion/debate and make it personal.

[Tutankhamen]

It is speculation based on what I believe to be a reliable source and I believe he said that "up to 10%", it does vary by cruise so it's not even 10% per cruise.

 

It's $84 per person for the week so for a family of seven (like mine) that equals an increase of $588 that must be paid prior to the cruise, by final payment date. There are many people that complain about the idea of having to pay for service before it's rendered. If this were a really pressing issue NCL would address it somehow. That they haven't leads me to believe that there is not a significant problem. (And if people had the option to wait to pay the port charges until they were on the cruise how many would opt for it? My guess is a good number because people tend to like holding onto their money as long as they can.)

 

You point out some great points. Points that I can't argue with. There are certainly downfalls to what I would prefer.

 

The unfortunate aspect to the wages, service charge and tips is that the issues really are a result of the guests. The old way is what I actually prefer, but people who either couldn't afford it or just cheap ruined what I perceived as a good system.

[Traveller20074]

never said I want it hidden. Could be added to the bill at time of booking like port charges. However, by having it visible, you are essentially lowering the tips. People see the "service charge" and assume that is tips. Evident by the many posts here on CC.

 

 

from the NCL website:

 

 

What's the service charge?

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

 

 

if this isn't a tip, I'm Abraham Lincoln

[Out to sea!]

from the NCL website:

 

 

What's the service charge?

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

 

 

if this isn't a tip, I'm Abraham Lincoln

 

Wages are compensation as well Abe. ;)

[Traveller20074]

Wages are compensation as well Abe. ;)

 

lol yep

 

 

found this

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=132

 

It is only somewhat recently that cruise lines began placing automatic service charges on shipboard accounts. They did this for two reasons. The first reason was the rising number of Europeans traveling on cruise ships. Europeans are accustomed to having a service charge added to their bills at first-class hotels. It is not in their culture to tip further. Likewise, it is not the custom in Japan to tip at all. As cruise lines attracted passengers from countries where tipping is not customary, they added service charges to guarantee their employees' compensation.Over the course of the week, they may encounter a number of servers in the process. Because it might be impractical for passengers to tip on each occasion -- and cruise lines have touted the advantages of cashless cruising -- the lines implemented service charges.

 

If you ask at the Purser's Office or Information Center whether the automatic service charge replaces traditional tipping, the answer you will receive is "yes." But it is anyone's guess just how much of the daily charge on your account will go to a particular steward or waiter. Tips are distributed on a schedule that includes those who previously went unrewarded like the servers in the Lido restaurant where most passengers eat their breakfast and lunch. To accomplish the admirable task of compensating the overlooked steward without causing undue complaint from passengers, the amount given to dining room and room stewards is less under this scheme than it was previously. I know this because I have asked stewards who have served under both systems. The top cabin and dining room stewards made out better before.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Traveller20074

[LMaxwell]

Tell me, based on your unusual family size of 7 (and in reality very, very few families of 7 are seen on a cruise), how much interest would you earn in 75 days on that $588? 25 cents......maybe? For most (a couple) it would be $168 which would equate to about 9 cents in interest over the 75 days. As I said, if people want to complain about paying for service before service is rendered, when will the thread start about paying for port charges before a port is visited? This is a way to keep people from cheating the system, something I abhor so this practice would be a good way to keep that from happening.

 

It's about playing bank. We (guests) are not the bank. If it is a fee used to compensate workers what on Earth is wrong with being charged on your final account instead of ahead of time? The workers are not being paid 75 days ahead of time for servicing us (they get paid in arrears as well). NCL and other cruise lines are getting a heck of a lot more than a few cents interest when you combine the tens of thousands of people paying in to the pot.

 

For the record, I think the daily fee all these cruises lines charge is reasonable. In many cases the hard working employees deserve and earn more (cold hard cash) from me. I find additional value in services they provide and I thank them and compensate them additional as I feel fit to do so. After service. Not before. That hardly makes me the bad guy.

 

And I still am not the bank. Fiscal responsibility dictates that I keep my money as long as is reasonably practical. Additionally, for the record, on my next cruise I am paying for 6 people and have no option but to pre-pay all of their gratuity charges. That's money out of my pocket 75+ days before services are rendered (final payment plus actual length of cruise). In addition to paying out $500 nearly 3 months earlier than the vacation, I now can not use OBC to offset those gratuities. The $500 was real money out of pocket. OBC is not money in pocket; it is just an offset. It is a booked liability for the cruise line until I use it, my money is cash flow / revenue to them though. See why I don't want to be the bank?

 

I think a fallacy in your line of reasoning is that you think that anyone that wants to be billed automatically afterwards is looking to find loopholes in the system or otherwise shaft hard working and deserving people out of a fair shake. That's really not the case, at least for me anyways.

 

Would you go pay your mechanic today and say "In two and a half to three months I'll be in for an oil change and tire rotation"? Of course not, you would pay for services at the time they are rendered. Maybe tomorrow stop off at a favorite local vendor of yours, barber shop, pizza restaurant, dry cleaners, etc., and pay for services and tell them you will come back in 3 months to use those services.

 

Yes, this is part of the cruise type vacation. And yes, while I find it odious it does not stop me from booking and enjoying a vacation. I do not mind voicing my opinion though.

[MyNameIsJack]

Not joking at all. We choose to give directly to those who take care of us in the manner we see fit. How we do that, the amount we do it, and anything else about it is our choice and needs no explanation. We prefer to not blindly put money into a pool and have no idea how it is being distributed and to who it is going. We are absolutely comfortable with how we take care of this and we are well within our rights to do so.

[Zackster]

Omg, seriously you reduced the amount.

 

Doing my online checkin and the Terms and Conditions read:

 

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge , which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

So vague ...

[Tutankhamen]

 

Would you go pay your mechanic today and say "In two and a half to three months I'll be in for an oil change and tire rotation"? Of course not,

Are you suggesting we shouldn't pay for the cruise 3 months out?

 

 

I shouldn't pay for a cruise today and say "In 3 months I'll be at the pier for a cruise."?

Edited April 11, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[sparks1093]

Tell me, based on your unusual family size of 7 (and in reality very, very few families of 7 are seen on a cruise), how much interest would you earn in 75 days on that $588? 25 cents......maybe? For most (a couple) it would be $168 which would equate to about 9 cents in interest over the 75 days. As I said, if people want to complain about paying for service before service is rendered, when will the thread start about paying for port charges before a port is visited? This is a way to keep people from cheating the system, something I abhor so this practice would be a good way to keep that from happening.

 

It's not about interest, it is about maintaining control of one's money for as long as one can and for many people it's about what they have to pay at final payment date. People are going to look at NCL's price and compare it to the competing line and see that NCL's price is higher, even though at the end of the cruise they would pay roughly the same amount (again, assuming that only $12 pp/pd is added but I suspect that it would be more. They would need to increase their marketing budget to explain why their fares appear to be higher).

 

I also abhor people cheating the system but it's not something for you or I to fix, it's for NCL to fix if it needs fixing at all. As much as I hate to see people cheating the system I also hate to see everyone suffer for the infractions of a few. I personally prefer to pre-pay the service charges about 30 days before the cruise but it's my choice to do so.

[sparks1093]

Sparks, yes and sorry for lumping you in with the one that wants to take a discussion/debate and make it personal.

 

Thank you.

[Ewoodspark]

 

I also abhor people cheating the system but it's not something for you or I to fix, it's for NCL to fix if it needs fixing at all. As much as I hate to see people cheating the system I also hate to see everyone suffer for the infractions of a few. I personally prefer to pre-pay the service charges about 30 days before the cruise but it's my choice to do so.

"Cheating the system" is in my opinion rather strong. If anybody wishes not to pay the discretionary $12 a day service charge, it is their own choice. It is certainly not cheating which quite frankly is an insulting comment

[sparks1093]

"Cheating the system" is in my opinion rather strong. If anybody wishes not to pay the discretionary $12 a day service charge, it is their own choice. It is certainly not cheating which quite frankly is an insulting comment

 

Then you should quote the person that first used the term;). As for their choice when someone does remove the service charge they are receiving something for nothing (unless of course they are leaving cash tips to the crew that serves them). And I disagree that it is a choice- "discretion" does not equal "optional". The fact that NCL allows such an adjustment from a customer service standpoint is beside the point.

Edited April 11, 2014 by sparks1093

[Crusin6]

It is speculation based on what I believe to be a reliable source and I believe he said that "up to 10%", it does vary by cruise so it's not even 10% per cruise.

 

It's $84 per person for the week so for a family of seven (like mine) that equals an increase of $588 that must be paid prior to the cruise, by final payment date. There are many people that complain about the idea of having to pay for service before it's rendered. If this were a really pressing issue NCL would address it somehow. That they haven't leads me to believe that there is not a significant problem. (And if people had the option to wait to pay the port charges until they were on the cruise how many would opt for it? My guess is a good number because people tend to like holding onto their money as long as they can.)

 

Why are you paying it ahead if time then?

For my family of 6 on the 12 day and 7 day cruises we have taken over the years I have just let them charge my sign and sail acct on a daily basis

 

I pay it off over the next billing cycle of my credit card which basically allows me a 6 week window to pay off

 

My dsc have been $800 btw

[Ewoodspark]

Then you should quote the person that first used the term;). As for their choice when someone does remove the service charge they are receiving something for nothing (unless of course they are leaving cash tips to the crew that serves them). And I disagree that it is a choice- "discretion" does not equal "optional". The fact that NCL allows such an adjustment from a customer service standpoint is beside the point.

Regardless of whom first used the "cheating" term, you certainly used the expression yourself and you should be ready to take any criticism regarding this very strong term. Discretion "The one who is going to decide" !!

[MyNameIsJack]

Discretionary - left to discretion : exercised at one's own discretion

 

Discretion - the right to choose what should be done in a particular situation

 

END OF STORY. Next

[sparks1093]

Regardless of whom first used the "cheating" term, you certainly used the expression yourself and you should be ready to take any criticism regarding this very strong term. Discretion "The one who is going to decide" !!

 

 

Discretionary - left to discretion : exercised at one's own discretion

 

Discretion - the right to choose what should be done in a particular situation

 

END OF STORY. Next

 

Abuse of Discretion- acting in an arbitrary or capricious fashion without proper consideration of all of the facts.