Norwegian Cruise Line will institute changes to its smoking policy for all sailings o

[Shaded Lady]

First of all, let me say, I'm not a smoker (I quit 20 years ago because I couldn't afford it anymore!). And like many reformed smokers, I hate the smell of cigarettes.

 

But I've been around a few people who vape and haven't noticed a smell (unless it's the scented vapes, and I really don't mind the smell of vanilla!).

 

So to appease most people, why wouldn't the cruiselines continue to allow vaping on balconies? Who does it hurt, besides the 1 person who's already made a conscious decision to use the thing? And chances are, they've chosen it to help them move toward cutting down or quitting altogether.

 

Personally, if I was a smoker, and had a balcony, I'd be vaping away, since no one would ever know and it's not harming anyone. I know it's against policy, but who gets hurt? and like many of the policies Carnival has, this could just be one more 'recommendation completely unenforced', like chogs, booze smuggling and other restrictions!

[Tucker in Texas]

I remember one incident that a family was put off because the son had cigarettes and a lighter. The rules were very tough on the Paradise and from what I've read, they had zero tolerance.

 

They did have zero tolerance. So "zero" that if you were even caught with smoking supplies (either in your cabin, in your possessions like a purse, pocket) you were in deep doo doo. So what was a smoker, who was willing to abide by the non-smoking, to do? Buy a pack of cigarettes and a lighter in port, smoke a couple, and leave the rest? The ship did o.k. for awhile then they did not have enough passengers to sustain acceptable profits.. 1) The non-smokers stopped booking because they had "been there, done that" and tired of the itinerary. Loss of repeat passenger business which is not good. 2) Group bookings (their bread and butter) went down because all it took was one smoker in a potential group (like Uncle George) to find another line that allowed it. 3) On-board revenues were down because, it is said, smokers gamble and drink more.

 

Enforcement can be difficult if not impossible. They just about have to catch you with a lit cigarette in your hand. Maybe a video tape might work but not sure.

 

I have been on ships where I have gotten letters saying "smoking has been reported in your area" containing a copy of their policy which was put in all the cabins in the area of the report. They will not go after someone just because a passenger says they are smoking next door, I saw them smoking--whatever. They will send security up to have a "talk" with the suspects but that is about it.

 

One person on cruise critic said weed was being smoked next door on the balcony but by the time security got there only the odor remained and it could have come from any nearby balcony. On one ship, a man was bragging in the concierge lounge he had gotten three warning letters but nothing was done because it couldn't be proved it was actually him so he was keeping on puffing.

 

I believe Carnival does have a policy on some of their ships that you must be gambling in the casino to smoke. To keep people from sitting down in front of a penny slot machine and slowly play a penny at a time, they have minimums of 25 or so pennies per pull. However, Celebrity does not allow smoking in the casino and seems to be doing o.k. so that might be a viable next step. It all boils down to revenue.

 

Tucker in Texas

[thistoo]

Maybe I've just been lucky, but with all the ranting and raving I've been reading "EVERY TIME we get a balcony, it is wasted because of chain smokers next door" from so many different posters, I find that hard to believe - that is IF their complaints are actually true (which I also doubt). It is beyond me how smoke can linger in a balcony on a moving ship enough to bother anyone if they did in fact get a whiff of it at all!

 

I'm also an ex-smoker and smoke doesn't really bother me, but it does bother my parents, with whom I travel. It's the extreme views on both sides of this argument that cause so much animosity. On our last cruise we had a balcony next door to smokers. We smelled it a time or two, but it was no big deal. Certainly less obnoxious than the amount of noise they made late at night out there.

 

On the sailing before that, we lost the balcony lottery by being put next door to bonafide chain smokers. They both smoked, and as soon as one finished the other would light up, over and over. It only stopped when they were in the casino smoking. So yes, it happens, and you take a chance when you book a balcony as a nonsmoker. If it's never happened to you, congratulations, you are luckier than some of us.

 

Some people are more sensitive to the smell of smoke than others, as well, so what might not bother some could be very noticeable to others. Dismissing those complaints out of hand isn't any more helpful than the people who walk up to smokers and lecture them about their habit.

[DebJ14]

We have only had 3 balconies in all of our cruises. There was not a problem with the Aft balcony, but we had smokers beside us on the other two cruises. It was so bad the last time we paid about $600 more for a balcony cabin that we couldn't even use our balcony at all. What a waste of money! DH enjoys drinking his coffee on the balcony early in the morning and couldn't enjoy that experience even once. Our neighbors were smokers who rarely left their cabin. We swore we would never waste our money on a balcony again because you never know if you will have neighbors who smoke on the balcony. I prefer not to breathe in their smoke. Yay! Now we can book a balcony again. DH will be happy.

 

We had a similar situation on the Triumph. We paid through the nose for a Grand Suite over Memorial Day 2012. The guy in the balcony just forward of us chain smoked cigars all day and night. We leaned around the partition and asked him if he could give us a break so we could use our balcony and we got the "I paid for my balcony and I will use it whenever I want" answer. We couldn't even open the door to the balcony or else the smoke filled our cabin. The room steward accused us of smoking in the cabin, but we asked him to please step out on the balcony and see what we were dealing with. Once he saw how much smoke was out there and that it smelled the same as our cabin he apologized.

From that point on we stopped booking suites on Carnival. We only booked on ships with spa cabins to avoid the smoke. Unfortunately, we were never able to book a spa suite because there are so few of them. Carnival lost lots of revenue from us since then.

 

We have done 1 Carnival in the past year and that was a freebie. Last year we did 1 RCCL and 1 Princess (both in full suites) and our upcoming cruises are on RCCL in a GS and Princess in an aft suite. So, $27,000 of revenue went to other cruise lines and an all inclusive in Mexico in 2013 and 2014 instead of going to Carnival.

[VacationCrazee]

But if a ship security person catches you smoking indoors at Diamonds International, Colombian Emeralds or Effy's you will be forced to make a minimum $250 Tanzanite purchase or be denied reboarding.

 

The ship personnel monitoring this are off duty bacon police.

 

good one!! hahahahahahaha

[VacationCrazee]

I work for a bank. You can dispute the charge but if you got value then you lose. They also make you sign under penalty of purgury so I would be careful making a false statement.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Forums mobile app

 

That is the key. . . There is no value to a penalty imposed without any evidence of damages. Most people pay.

 

And, the word is PERJURY. I would not suggest anyone lie about anything. It is not about being dishonest. It is about exercising your right to dispute an unfair charge. It is very difficult to dispute a charge where there is clear evidence of the "legal consideration" received for the charge, unless items/services received were deemed inadequate or defective. There would be no legal consideration to offset a charge of "improper smoking" so. . . . not sure how this is handled to be honest by Visa and Mastercard.

 

As for AMEX, they are cut throat. . . . They just remove the charge and flip the merchant the virtual bird unless and until the merchant produces some proof that the charge is warranted.

 

But. . . . one of these days I have to thoroughly read the legalese of a Carnival cruising contract. It would be interesting to see how they protect themselves from all modes of nuisance and nonsense.

[jetta8300]

Let me start off by saying I am an ex-smoker (9 years) and they say that ex-smokers are the worst at complaining about smoke. On all of my cruises in which we had balconies, I never once smelled smoke from another balcony. Maybe I've just been lucky, but with all the ranting and raving I've been reading "EVERY TIME we get a balcony, it is wasted because of chain smokers next door" from so many different posters, I find that hard to believe - that is IF their complaints are actually true (which I also doubt). It is beyond me how smoke can linger in a balcony on a moving ship enough to bother anyone if they did in fact get a whiff of it at all! I've got a whiff or two of that black crap that comes out the whale tail and I would much rather get the odd whiff of smoke then smell that! That has just as much, if not more, carcinogens than cigarette smoke but the zealots won't complain about that will they - that would affect them if it came down to actually something having to be done about those emissions - namely higher fares. Seems to me that the overzealous non-smokers just take things a little far in all aspects when it comes to smoking. Whether they actually believe these things they complain about (psychosomatic) I don't know, but I guess they complain the loudest and so are the only ones heard. If capacity goes down and fares rise because of this, you bet you will hear them complaining the loudest once again.

 

 

I am an ex smoker myself. I thought the same thing myself after my first cruise with carnival... We did smell a very faint whiff of smoke at all times, not enough to bother me though. It really was pretty faint. And I was like, "wow I have no idea what these people are complaining about."

 

HOWEVER I found out on our second cruise. We barely could use our balcony. I might as well have been sitting at the dinner table with 6 smokers blowing it in my face. It was unbearable. I think it was coming from below us but I couldn't be sure.

 

I don't know what's worse, balcony smoking or confining people to the casino. My husband an I were in Niagara Falls over the weekend and went onto Seneca casino. I had to leave after about an hour I was sick. It smelled so badly in there. I'm worried we won't be able to use the casino on the ship because all of the smokers will be congregating there. I just wish they had a cigar bar or something!!!

 

I used to enjoy a pack a week or so myself but now the smell just disgusts me.

 

I

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[RDC1]

That is the key. . . There is no value to a penalty imposed without any evidence of damages. Most people pay.

 

And, the word is PERJURY. I would not suggest anyone lie about anything. It is not about being dishonest. It is about exercising your right to dispute an unfair charge. It is very difficult to dispute a charge where there is clear evidence of the "legal consideration" received for the charge, unless items/services received were deemed inadequate or defective. There would be no legal consideration to offset a charge of "improper smoking" so. . . . not sure how this is handled to be honest by Visa and Mastercard.

 

As for AMEX, they are cut throat. . . . They just remove the charge and flip the merchant the virtual bird unless and until the merchant produces some proof that the charge is warranted.

 

But. . . . one of these days I have to thoroughly read the legalese of a Carnival cruising contract. It would be interesting to see how they protect themselves from all modes of nuisance and nonsense.

 

Lets look at it this way. Lets say you go through all this and win (not have to pay the charge), the end result is most likely to be permanently banned from the cruise line. That is if you haven't been booted of already.

 

Is it really worth it. I would suspect that you wouldn't win and still might get banned for trying.

[VacationCrazee]

Lets look at it this way. Lets say you go through all this and win (not have to pay the charge), the end result is most likely to be permanently banned from the cruise line. That is if you haven't been booted of already.

 

Is it really worth it. I would suspect that you wouldn't win and still might get banned for trying.

 

I am glad you asked that because it brings up something that I thought about yesterday while in this thread. A lot of people here give the impression that without Carnival the world ends. We have to remember that once Carnival's ships entered U.S. waters, they become just another corporation that is offering non-essential services to the public. Nothing more. Also the vacation options offered to most cruisers is vast and varied.

 

Now more than likely after disputing a charge with Carnival's accounting department, they would NOT ban a customer. Not at all. . . . There is nothing nefarious about a charge dispute. (just goes to show how little most folk understand about credit card usage) In fact, many credit cards (especially gold and platinum and above) offer a service that you can dispute a charge or refuse payment if the services offered or goods sold are not up to your standards or if the goods do not hold up for 1 year or more. Nothing nefarious in that at all.

 

Carnival's accounting dept does not have the time or manpower to key in every customer I.D. info when they dispute a few hundred dollars on their sale and sign bill. Now if a customer shows a propensity to disputing charges after each and every cruise, then yes, after a number of cruises, that person "may" be banned for a while. For life? Highly unlikely.

 

As I stated before, without proof of legal consideration (signed receipt for merchandise/services received), the chances of Carnival being able to prevail in a dispute over smoking fines, lost bathrobes/towels, etc. is not very good. Once a cardholders says, "it wasn't me." Unless Carnival or any other vendor has proof (aforementioned signed receipt), it WAS NOT THE CUSTOMER. Banks are not going to lose good, on-time paying credit card customers over a $250 smoking fine or a $50 bathrobe. Not at all. Carnival is really not the big dog in the pound that many Carnival devotees like to believe them to be. They can put whatever they want in their cruising contract. If their wording is contrary to commonly acceptable practices, well. . . .

 

For all of that and other reasons, don't expect Carnival to heavily enforce any smoking ban in the foreseeable future. Remember they cannot come across as bullies. They will wean their customers with warnings after warnings after warnings so. . . .

[iconoclast]

I am glad you asked that because it brings up something that I thought about yesterday while in this thread. A lot of people here give the impression that without Carnival the world ends. We have to remember that once Carnival's ships entered U.S. waters, they become just another corporation that is offering non-essential services to the public. Nothing more. Also the vacation options offered to most cruisers is vast and varied.

 

Now more than likely after disputing a charge with Carnival's accounting department, they would NOT ban a customer. Not at all. . . . There is nothing nefarious about a charge dispute. (just goes to show how little most folk understand about credit card usage) In fact, many credit cards (especially gold and platinum and above) offer a service that you can dispute a charge or refuse payment if the services offered or goods sold are not up to your standards or if the goods do not hold up for 1 year or more. Nothing nefarious in that at all.

 

Carnival's accounting dept does not have the time or manpower to key in every customer I.D. info when they dispute a few hundred dollars on their sale and sign bill. Now if a customer shows a propensity to disputing charges after each and every cruise, then yes, after a number of cruises, that person "may" be banned for a while. For life? Highly unlikely.

 

As I stated before, without proof of legal consideration (signed receipt for merchandise/services received), the chances of Carnival being able to prevail in a dispute over smoking fines, lost bathrobes/towels, etc. is not very good. Once a cardholders says, "it wasn't me." Unless Carnival or any other vendor has proof (aforementioned signed receipt), it WAS NOT THE CUSTOMER. Banks are not going to lose good, on-time paying credit card customers over a $250 smoking fine or a $50 bathrobe. Not at all. Carnival is really not the big dog in the pound that many Carnival devotees like to believe them to be. They can put whatever they want in their cruising contract. If their wording is contrary to commonly acceptable practices, well. . . .

 

For all of that and other reasons, don't expect Carnival to heavily enforce any smoking ban in the foreseeable future. Remember they cannot come across as bullies. They will wean their customers with warnings after warnings after warnings so. . . .

 

I strongly suggest you just try this (with apologies to whoever cruises with you.) Smokers love to think they can outsmart the system. There must be something in nicotine that makes you think you're smarter than the rest of us. Or the banks and credit card companies. Your credit provider/bank can see what you spend your money on. Are there charges for cigarettes day after day after week after month etc. A credit card company also relies on its relationships with those who take their cards.

[RDC1]

I am glad you asked that because it brings up something that I thought about yesterday while in this thread. A lot of people here give the impression that without Carnival the world ends. We have to remember that once Carnival's ships entered U.S. waters, they become just another corporation that is offering non-essential services to the public. Nothing more. Also the vacation options offered to most cruisers is vast and varied.

 

Now more than likely after disputing a charge with Carnival's accounting department, they would NOT ban a customer. Not at all. . . . There is nothing nefarious about a charge dispute. (just goes to show how little most folk understand about credit card usage) In fact, many credit cards (especially gold and platinum and above) offer a service that you can dispute a charge or refuse payment if the services offered or goods sold are not up to your standards or if the goods do not hold up for 1 year or more. Nothing nefarious in that at all.

 

Carnival's accounting dept does not have the time or manpower to key in every customer I.D. info when they dispute a few hundred dollars on their sale and sign bill. Now if a customer shows a propensity to disputing charges after each and every cruise, then yes, after a number of cruises, that person "may" be banned for a while. For life? Highly unlikely.

 

As I stated before, without proof of legal consideration (signed receipt for merchandise/services received), the chances of Carnival being able to prevail in a dispute over smoking fines, lost bathrobes/towels, etc. is not very good. Once a cardholders says, "it wasn't me." Unless Carnival or any other vendor has proof (aforementioned signed receipt), it WAS NOT THE CUSTOMER. Banks are not going to lose good, on-time paying credit card customers over a $250 smoking fine or a $50 bathrobe. Not at all. Carnival is really not the big dog in the pound that many Carnival devotees like to believe them to be. They can put whatever they want in their cruising contract. If their wording is contrary to commonly acceptable practices, well. . . .

 

For all of that and other reasons, don't expect Carnival to heavily enforce any smoking ban in the foreseeable future. Remember they cannot come across as bullies. They will wean their customers with warnings after warnings after warnings so. . . .

 

Actually if you search through cruise critic their are discussions about situations where people have been banned. So you might revise your thoughts on what a cruise line is willing to do. You might be surprised for how easily it happens.

 

As far as enforcement keep in mind that with the statement of a policy they have created an expectation of a non-smoking environment on balconies. So you guess which they would be willing to lose as a customer, those expecting a non-smoking environment or one that is willing to break the rules and argue about the fine.

 

Go ahead. Go on a cruise after the policy is changed. Flagrantly violate the new policy. Refuse to pay the fine. Then come back and tell us all how Carnival won't enforce it or cannot force collection or will not be willing to ban you.

Edited July 17, 2014 by RDC1

[VacationCrazee]

I strongly suggest you just try this (with apologies to whoever cruises with you.) Smokers love to think they can outsmart the system. There must be something in nicotine that makes you think you're smarter than the rest of us. Or the banks and credit card companies. Your credit provider/bank can see what you spend your money on. Are there charges for cigarettes day after day after week after month etc. A credit card company also relies on its relationships with those who take their cards.

 

As I stated way back when, I don't have a problem with the ban. I don't book balconies so any smoking I do has been curtailed years ago and I am all for it. Helps me cut down.

 

Secondly, credit card companies do NOT look at a history of your purchases to determine whether or not you have a legitimate dispute. As much as it pains you to believe, the relationship between the bank issuing the credit card and the customer is much more important to the bank than the relationship between the credit card company and the vendor. Very few vendors can exist without accepting credit cards in this day and age, while a person with good credit can pick from any number of banks to obtain their credit card of choice. Let me explain how it works a little:

 

Amex is the most cold blooded. Amex's loyalities are with the individuals who hold and use their cards. They have little sympathy for the vendor. When you file a dispute with Amex, Amex reverses the charges and advises the vendor to validate the charge or to provide proof that what Amex's customer is claiming is not true. How do you prove that the missing bathrobe is in the possession of the cruiser? How do you prove the cruiser was smoking on their balcony? How do you disprove the cruiser's claim that they were threatened with being abandoned on a 3rd world island nation if they did not sign a piece of paper? None can be done. Hence, Amex will reverse the charges and Carnival can go suck rocks. Carnival needs Amex more than Amex needs Carnival.

 

With Visa/Mastercard, it is a bit more restrictive. When you file a dispute involving Visa or Mastercard, an employee of the bank issuing your card will talk to you and get pertinent facts about your disagreement to a charge. Depending upon what you say will determine what code the bank enters when reversing the charges back to Visa/Mastercard. Visa/Mastercard then turns to the vendor to provide documentation that what the customer is saying is not true or valid. If the vendor actually follows thru (most don't), there are times when a dispute is deemed invalid and the bank will try to convince their customer that they do not have a standing to refuse to pay. However, depending upon how that customer accepts this ruling will determine what the bank does next. If the customer continues to balks about having to pay, the bank can either try to find a different coded reason for reversing the charges or, if you are a good/long time customer, the bank may eat the charge just to applease the customer.

 

Now most vendors do not fight disputes for small amounts of money because vendors are only allow a pre-determined number of customer disputes before their privileges to accept a certain credit is either suspended or terminated. Have you ever gone into a business and find that they are no longer accepting a certain type of credit card??? Yup. Chances are they have been suspended or terminated because of excessive disputes. Disputes cost the banks and the credit card companies (Amex/Visa/MC) money to settle (manpower). Therefore, the pressure is placed on the vendor not to rack of disputes.

 

Rarely do vendors fight disputes. If they are lucky, they may get their merchandise back and the customer doesn't have to pay. If they are dealing with Amex, more than likely they won't even get their merchandise back. The credit card companies are not repossession men. They could care less where the merchandise in dispute ends up. If the vendor refuses to take back their merchandise and they lose the dispute, the consumer ends up with the merchandise AND a reversal of the charges.

 

And this, my deal fellow Cruise Critic member, is why people use credit cards exclusively. For the protection of the big dog banks and credit card companies. They are like a consumer's big muscled brother. :cool:

[crusinpsychRN]

There sure are a lot of people complaining they had smokers next to them on the balcony. But lots of posts claim only 10-15% are smokers. Not adding up.

 

Can you imagine the threads come October about the horrible, intolerable conditions in the very restricted places smoking is allowed! Geesh......

 

Seems like smokers cruise a lot.

[gtalum]

As I stated way back when, I don't have a problem with the ban. I don't book balconies so any smoking I do has been curtailed years ago and I am all for it. Helps me cut down.

 

Secondly, credit card companies do NOT look at a history of your purchases to determine whether or not you have a legitimate dispute. As much as it pains you to believe, the relationship between the bank issuing the credit card and the customer is much more important to the bank than the relationship between the credit card company and the vendor. Very few vendors can exist without accepting credit cards in this day and age, while a person with good credit can pick from any number of banks to obtain their credit card of choice. Let me explain how it works a little:

 

Amex is the most cold blooded. Amex's loyalities are with the individuals who hold and use their cards. They have little sympathy for the vendor. When you file a dispute with Amex, Amex reverses the charges and advises the vendor to validate the charge or to provide proof that what Amex's customer is claiming is not true. How do you prove that the missing bathrobe is in the possession of the cruiser? How do you prove the cruiser was smoking on their balcony? How do you disprove the cruiser's claim that they were threatened with being abandoned on a 3rd world island nation if they did not sign a piece of paper? None can be done. Hence, Amex will reverse the charges and Carnival can go suck rocks. Carnival needs Amex more than Amex needs Carnival.

 

With Visa/Mastercard, it is a bit more restrictive. When you file a dispute involving Visa or Mastercard, an employee of the bank issuing your card will talk to you and get pertinent facts about your disagreement to a charge. Depending upon what you say will determine what code the bank enters when reversing the charges back to Visa/Mastercard. Visa/Mastercard then turns to the vendor to provide documentation that what the customer is saying is not true or valid. If the vendor actually follows thru (most don't), there are times when a dispute is deemed invalid and the bank will try to convince their customer that they do not have a standing to refuse to pay. However, depending upon how that customer accepts this ruling will determine what the bank does next. If the customer continues to balks about having to pay, the bank can either try to find a different coded reason for reversing the charges or, if you are a good/long time customer, the bank may eat the charge just to applease the customer.

 

Now most vendors do not fight disputes for small amounts of money because vendors are only allow a pre-determined number of customer disputes before their privileges to accept a certain credit is either suspended or terminated. Have you ever gone into a business and find that they are no longer accepting a certain type of credit card??? Yup. Chances are they have been suspended or terminated because of excessive disputes. Disputes cost the banks and the credit card companies (Amex/Visa/MC) money to settle (manpower). Therefore, the pressure is placed on the vendor not to rack of disputes.

 

Rarely do vendors fight disputes. If they are lucky, they may get their merchandise back and the customer doesn't have to pay. If they are dealing with Amex, more than likely they won't even get their merchandise back. The credit card companies are not repossession men. They could care less where the merchandise in dispute ends up. If the vendor refuses to take back their merchandise and they lose the dispute, the consumer ends up with the merchandise AND a reversal of the charges.

 

And this, my deal fellow Cruise Critic member, is why people use credit cards exclusively. For the protection of the big dog banks and credit card companies. They are like a consumer's big muscled brother. :cool:

 

To the contrary, I suspect that a documented report from a Carnival employee that you were smoking in your cabin or on your balcony and a copy of the contract would end up with the charge reinstated.

 

You're right that AMEX is generally more cardholder-friendly than the others, but they'll still accept documentation from the merchant to overturn a dispute. I have dispute experience both as a cardholder and as a merchant. I've never lost a dispute as the merchant.

Edited July 17, 2014 by gtalum

[guxu]

There sure are a lot of people complaining they had smokers next to them on the balcony. But lots of posts claim only 10-15% are smokers. Not adding up.

 

Can you imagine the threads come October about the horrible, intolerable conditions in the very restricted places smoking is allowed! Geesh......

 

Seems like smokers cruise a lot.

People do not write "No smoker!" every time they do not have smokers next to them. In a recent post, the OP said in his 20 cruises, that was the only time that smokers ruined his balcony experience. It's 1 of 20 but it did not prevent people from calling him faking.

[VacationCrazee]

Actually if you search through cruise critic their are discussions about situations where people have been banned. So you might revise your thoughts on what a cruise line is willing to do. You might be surprised for how easily it happens.

 

As far as enforcement keep in mind that with the statement of a policy they have created an expectation of a non-smoking environment on balconies. So you guess which they would be willing to lose as a customer, those expecting a non-smoking environment or one that is willing to break the rules and argue about the fine.

 

Go ahead. Go on a cruise after the policy is changed. Flagrantly violate the new policy. Refuse to pay the fine. Then come back and tell us all how Carnival won't enforce it or cannot force collection or will not be willing to ban you.

 

You are missing the point. . . . I don't have a problem with the ban. for the 251th time, I don't book balconies.They seem like a waste of money to me. However, I question how they expect to enforce the ban initially. And I also question whether or not heavyhandedness will work in the beginning. You can only bully the devotees and there are not enough devotees to fill all of Carnival ships so. . . .

 

As far as being banned. How many cruiselines are servicing North America today? Only the true devotees of one singular cruiseline would even study someone being banned. Most people cruise once and never cruise again.

 

Also, I am sure after any negative interaction over a person's smoking addiction destroys their vacation, the chances of them ever wanting to step foot on another Carnival ship is nil.

 

My question is how does Carnival enforce and permanently collect the fine??. . . . No one has told me. No one knows.

 

Do you know whether those fines are enforceable once they hit the American banking system? They may very well be but I don't see how and no one here seems to know either way.

 

Thank you.

[VacationCrazee]

To the contrary, I suspect that a documented report from a Carnival employee that you were smoking in your cabin or on your balcony and a copy of the contract would end up with the charge reinstated.

 

You're right that AMEX is generally more cardholder-friendly than the others, but they'll still accept documentation from the merchant to overturn a dispute. I have dispute experience both as a cardholder and as a merchant. I've never lost a dispute as the merchant.

 

I don't think the credit card companies would make a person pay with "a documented report" from an employee. I know Amex would not.

 

I am not a merchant. I am a smart consumer and I have only lost one dispute over the course of many many years. And, immediately after my bank refused to accept my claim on that dispute, I closed that credit card. In the same phone call. Didn't hurt the bank but I deemed them useless. Other than that which was at least 8 years ago, I, as a consumer, have NEVER lost a dispute. In the last year, I have had 4 disputes. None of the merchants fought me on it. Even after initially refusing to refund/reverse the charges. Once the formal dispute was filed, they all backed down. (Amounts from $49 - $562)

[iconoclast]

 

My question is how does Carnival enforce and permanently collect the fine??. . . . No one has told me. No one knows.

 

Do you know whether those fines are enforceable once they hit the American banking system? They may very well be but I don't see how and no one here seems to know either way.

 

Thank you.

 

They ban you from ever sailing with Carnival again. And put you off the ship if you don't sign a statement of admittance. This has been answered multiple times and people are just like "oh, no, they couldn't do that." They do. Maybe it's not collection but it's enforcement.

Edited July 17, 2014 by iconoclast

[firemanbobswife]

Better yet, why don't the ones questioning the validity of all this stuff call RCI/Celebrity and ask them. This isn't something new on all cruise ships. They have been doing it for years. The bickering on this site is getting way out of control. Who cares about the credit card companies?! It has been charged to people on other lines and it will be on Carnival too. Just wait and see. Until then here's a quarter - call someone who actually knows!!!

[EZ4]

All of you are assuming that one is really concerned about being banned from Carnival. Carnival is ONE vacation option out of thousands. It wouldn't be the end of the world. A handful of you might be devastated. The rest would probably laugh it off and go to the beach.

[guxu]

All of you are assuming that one is really concerned about being banned from Carnival. Carnival is ONE vacation option out of thousands. It wouldn't be the end of the world. A handful of you might be devastated. The rest would probably laugh it off and go to the beach.

Well, since we have so many heated posts here after Canival announced new smoking policy, I guess some people do care.

[jtdlmc]

I had to leave after about an hour I was sick. It smelled so badly in there. I'm worried we won't be able to use the casino on the ship because all of the smokers will be congregating there. I just wish they had a cigar bar or something!!!

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Oh they do have cigar bars on Carnival ships but the nonsmokers bitched because they couldn't enjoy the space and now smoking isn't allowed in the cigar bars!!!!!!

[RDC1]

You are missing the point. . . . I don't have a problem with the ban. for the 251th time, I don't book balconies.They seem like a waste of money to me. However, I question how they expect to enforce the ban initially. And I also question whether or not heavyhandedness will work in the beginning. You can only bully the devotees and there are not enough devotees to fill all of Carnival ships so. . . .

 

As far as being banned. How many cruiselines are servicing North America today? Only the true devotees of one singular cruiseline would even study someone being banned. Most people cruise once and never cruise again.

 

Also, I am sure after any negative interaction over a person's smoking addiction destroys their vacation, the chances of them ever wanting to step foot on another Carnival ship is nil.

 

My question is how does Carnival enforce and permanently collect the fine??. . . . No one has told me. No one knows.

 

Do you know whether those fines are enforceable once they hit the American banking system? They may very well be but I don't see how and no one here seems to know either way.

 

Thank you.

 

People have told you. You just ignore or discount the responses.

[babyher]

Oh they do have cigar bars on Carnival ships but the nonsmokers bitched because they couldn't enjoy the space and now smoking isn't allowed in the cigar bars!!!!!!

 

 

Ain't that a hoot *LOL*

[broyles60]

I beg to differ. . . . The bank's customer RARELY loses when disputing a charge. (Trust me, I dispute my fair share) If it comes down to he said, she said between a bank's customer and a cruiseship employee, the bank is going to back their customer. I think the most Carnival can do is ban the non-paying offender from ever cruising on Carnival again. Once a bank customer files a dispute it becomes a numbers game. Is it worth it to the merchant (in this case Carnival) to pursue the charged amount or is it more financially feasible to drop the charged fine and just ban that passenger for XX amount of months/years. I can assure you, Carnival will do the latter, without fail.

 

If a bathrobe turns up missing from your cabin and Carnival wants to charge you $50 for it but you tell the bank that you left the robe on the bed, trust me. . . . . Carnival DOES NOT get $50 from your credit card (unless they have x-ray video showing the bathrobe in your luggage at the airport, which, of course, they will not.)

 

As far as leaving people on these islands. . . . it is a slippery slope. In America anyone one can sue anyone for anything, contract be darned. At the point the evicted cruiser files suit against carnival using a contingency based attorney, again. . .it comes down to a numbers game. What is the cost analysis of cutting this whiner a check and having him/her sign a confidentiality agreement as opposed to fighting this case in court with Carnival's very very high priced attorneys and the media watching. . . . Again, if the case has not garnered too much media attention, cutting the whiner a check and barring them from future cruises is by far cheaper and better than fighting this in court. Carnival does not want to defend leaving a family in the DR, Jamaica, St. Kitts, and having a member of that family robbed, raped, maimed, kidnapped or murdered as they attempted to get back to the states (all for smoking a cigarette??? CNN would have a field day with that. hahahahaha). No contract will stand up to that type of public opinion beating. . . . Easier to either turn a blind eye to the offense (sneaking liquor onboard) or pay off the injured party.

 

We would all like to believe that there are stiff penalties for rule breakers. However, in the unfairness of life, there often are not. . . . Many people will continue to smoke on their balconies (like chair hogs) and Carnival will announce a bunch of penalties, carry out a few and then hope for the best.

 

Really, you dispute your fair share? Is it for charges you legitimately incurred but don't want to pay? Thanks for increasing credit card fees / prices for all of us.