Upset bar servers because of drink package!!

[jkrislc]

 

I do however believe that service will go down when a server knows they have nothing to gain by giving you extra special service. Ask Disney World how that went for them when they tried to implement an automatic tip system, service went down, people complained and they pulled the plug on it. When your tips are automatically included in everything you serve I do believe that the servers will tend to be less willing to go the extra mile.

 

It was actually the servers, through their union, that pulled the plug on the auto-tipping at Disney World. From the reports I heard, servers were receiving less in tips because guests weren't feeling compelled to tip extra, which is likely the case with the drink packages.

 

I've only had one experience with a drink package at that was on Celebrity. I found the service to be fine and only tipped extra at the end of the cruise because of really great service at the coffee bar.

[1 Buffett Fan]

I have a few different views on this thread... As someone who grew up in the service industry where everyone in my family owned restaurants or bars, I learned at an early age that tips can make or break your level of service. I know many a bartender who will bend over backwards to give a good tipper a drink all while giving average service to someone who tips less. I think it is human nature to be honest. Think about it like this, if you do a great job at work and you have given your boss all you can with outstanding results (at any job), would you not expect a raise or a promotion? I don't know how service staff on a ship are paid, but in the United States, servers and bartenders are paid a tiny salary and everything else is tips....so a server with bills to pay and family's to provide for will naturally try to maximize their income by gravitating towards a better tipper.

 

I do however believe that service will go down when a server knows they have nothing to gain by giving you extra special service. Ask Disney World how that went for them when they tried to implement an automatic tip system, service went down, people complained and they pulled the plug on it. When your tips are automatically included in everything you serve I do believe that the servers will tend to be less willing to go the extra mile. Having said that tho, there shouldn't be a difference between the service to people with a drink package and people who order as they go, according to that logic, as the tip is supposedly included in either option.

 

Quick point, I remember my 1st cruise I was having such a great time that I didn't realize that the tip was included in every drink I purchased. I was tipping very well not knowing.....needless to say my wife and I kept saying man they bring your drinks quick here. Wasn't till day 3 while sitting at the pool, a server was bringing our drinks one after another when the guy next to me jokingly said "how do you rate, I can't get this guy's attention". When the server came back I told him that they guy next to my wife would like to order a drink, his response was "show him how to tip"...needless to say 1) we couldn't believe he said that and 2) they guy heard him say that and was lets just say a little upset. That is when the guy told us that the tip is included in each drink you purchase...

 

I think in the service industry that if you provide your best to everyone, good things will happen and it will all work out...provide crud to some and excellent to others....not so much. Good Karma to all

 

Thanks for the perspective.

 

If I know I will have the same bartender/server for an extended period, I don't necessarily tip after each drink, but have tended to tip a larger amount early on (usually right after the first drink even if I'm going to be there awhile) as opposed to a smaller tip after each drink. This usually results in attentive service throughout, and I've never gotten a funny look because of not tipping after that initial, larger tip. Of course if I change venues or have a different server, I make sure I tip them.

 

Judging by this thread I know that there are a lot of different philosophies for and against this method, but just thought I'd share.

 

Happy cruising!

[CP3o]

While on the Liberty, I didn't spend much time in the bars, but whenever I was in one, the service was pretty slow, and the help seemed overwhelmed.

 

This is my main concern b/c there will always be bad tippers with their ways of rationalizing and good tippers hopefully make up for it and servers take the good with the bad and it works out.

 

But, RCCL is selling these packages that now have paxs ordering more drinks than they did before, from the teen wanting a virgin mixed drink to water bottles to beer bottles to just MORE of every sort of drink offered.

 

If they keep the staffing the same, the servers are slammed and even good tippers will have to wait for drinks and on vacation you want good quick friendly service. I'd hate to see bar service go downhill the way MDR food has. (And I've made peace will all of those changes, no problem.)

 

RCCL has transaction numbers, if they have increased by 20%, staffing should increase by 20%. If not, pax will have a new reason to smuggle, they'll say they are willing to pay, but not to wait, so they'll buy a soda card and hit a freestyle machine and just drink smuggled rum and cokes.

[SA Traveler]

I have a few different views on this thread... As someone who grew up in the service industry where everyone in my family owned restaurants or bars, I learned at an early age that tips can make or break your level of service. I know many a bartender who will bend over backwards to give a good tipper a drink all while giving average service to someone who tips less. I think it is human nature to be honest. Think about it like this, if you do a great job at work and you have given your boss all you can with outstanding results (at any job), would you not expect a raise or a promotion? I don't know how service staff on a ship are paid, but in the United States, servers and bartenders are paid a tiny salary and everything else is tips....so a server with bills to pay and family's to provide for will naturally try to maximize their income by gravitating towards a better tipper.

 

I do however believe that service will go down when a server knows they have nothing to gain by giving you extra special service. Ask Disney World how that went for them when they tried to implement an automatic tip system, service went down, people complained and they pulled the plug on it. When your tips are automatically included in everything you serve I do believe that the servers will tend to be less willing to go the extra mile. Having said that tho, there shouldn't be a difference between the service to people with a drink package and people who order as they go, according to that logic, as the tip is supposedly included in either option.

 

Quick point, I remember my 1st cruise I was having such a great time that I didn't realize that the tip was included in every drink I purchased. I was tipping very well not knowing.....needless to say my wife and I kept saying man they bring your drinks quick here. Wasn't till day 3 while sitting at the pool, a server was bringing our drinks one after another when the guy next to me jokingly said "how do you rate, I can't get this guy's attention". When the server came back I told him that they guy next to my wife would like to order a drink, his response was "show him how to tip"...needless to say 1) we couldn't believe he said that and 2) they guy heard him say that and was lets just say a little upset. That is when the guy told us that the tip is included in each drink you purchase...

 

I think in the service industry that if you provide your best to everyone, good things will happen and it will all work out...provide crud to some and excellent to others....not so much. Good Karma to all

 

Good first post!

[Scotty G]

Me, I'll continue to show my appreciation for their hard work in a monetary fashion. If it gets me better service than your "appreciative attitude" gets, so be it.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Agree!

[slyster]

Still would like clarification on the how the tips are pooled together. IF I get 8 drinks (soda, glassses of wine, a frozen cocktail) in a day, are they getting 15% for each of those 8 drinks OR are they getting the gratuity (assumed its 15%) what is supposed to already added to the drink package.

 

If I get on board and they aren't giving me a receipt for my drink, I'm simply going to ask for one because depending on the situation, I might add a tip. I'm curious to see what happens and whether we are given a receipt.

[DEIx15x8]

It's a bit more work on the IT side (an impossible feat for there team really) but Royal Caribbean should consider dividing the days 15% among the servers that the person used for the day. So if the cost is $65 per day that would be $9.75 in tips for each day. So now if the person buys three $9.50 drinks on a day from two different bartenders the one that served one drink would receive $3.25 and the other who served two would get $6.50 in tips from them. That's way more in tips than the normal $1.42 they would have normally received but in contrast the person that orders 10 drinks at a cost of $9.50 each would only be getting the person a tip of $0.97 for each drink, below the standard. It would in essence make it fairer to the bartenders by getting closer to breaking even and ensure good service as they really do not know who will be ordering just a couple drinks for the day and who will be going overboard. In either case they are ensured they receive something up to that person's drink package tip allowance of $9.75 for the day. If you really have a favorite bartender you can ensure they get the entire $9.75 for each day.

[basilisk43]

Hmmm... not exactly sure how you managed such an absurd opinion, but so be it. Curious though, if you have MTD and your tips are prepaid, the servers know it. They have a list of those who prepaid. So are you not, in your odd interpretation, now guilty if bribery? Go ahead and wander through life looking at tipping as bribery. I'm sure those who work for tips to make your cruise experience great really appreciate your "generous" opinion of them. Me, I'll continue to show my appreciation for their hard work in a monetary fashion. If it gets me better service than your "appreciative attitude" gets, so be it.

 

 

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Because the opinion is based on the topic of the thread - which is about "drinks" not "food"

But let me spell it out for you:

MTD prepaid tips are the general tips for all staff covered under the tip system, but excluding drink staff.

Drink package tips are a 15% tip for drink staff but not general staff.

 

The "tipping in advance" mentioned by the poster refers to the method of garnering great service for ones-self by splurging money up front before the service is given. If, as everyone here states, tips are given in recognition of good service then that by default has to be AFTER the service is given (how else would you know if it was good?) So if money is handed over before the service is given to ensure a fast service and the odd extra drink at the expense of other people, that would make it a what? Tip or bribe, your call, but remember not to be absurd in your opinion. :cool:

[fishtaco]

Because the opinion is based on the topic of the thread - which is about "drinks" not "food"

But let me spell it out for you:

MTD prepaid tips are the general tips for all staff covered under the tip system, but excluding drink staff.

Drink package tips are a 15% tip for drink staff but not general staff.

 

The "tipping in advance" mentioned by the poster refers to the method of garnering great service for ones-self by splurging money up front before the service is given. If, as everyone here states, tips are given in recognition of good service then that by default has to be AFTER the service is given (how else would you know if it was good?) So if money is handed over before the service is given to ensure a fast service and the odd extra drink at the expense of other people, that would make it a what? Tip or bribe, your call, but remember not to be absurd in your opinion. :cool:

 

Bribe:)

[fishtaco]

I'm well-educated on this subject. I am well aware that most, if not all, crew members do very well for themselves. That does not change the fact that they work for their tips and that it adds a very large sum to their earnings. Let's put it this way - without the tips, they wouldn't be there, trust me. I have a few close friends who are RCI crew members.

 

 

Are you saying Tips as over and above Grats? If so I say not so well educated!

Edited July 31, 2014 by fishtaco

[woodyren]

Trying to get a little understanding of the thought process behind tipping. I have no issue with rewarding the staff for their hard work. I cannot think of any reason I would remove auto grats.

 

I am looking into the tippers thinking now.

 

Do you expect to get better service if you tip on top of the auto gratuities than a person who doesn't?

 

Are you OK for another person to miss their turn as the waiter bypasses them or the barman serves you even though they have been standing waiting or sitting with an empty drink before you?

 

Why is it so important to so many people that a barman remembers your drink?

 

Sorry but I really don't get any of this.

[woodyren]

It seems that the general agreement is:

 

There are less staff working now due to staff cuts.

 

That auto grats are distributed as publicised to the staff.

 

That the MAJOR part of the staffs salary is made up of tips.

 

If all this is true then by default the remaining staff must be working harder but they also must be earning a lot more.

Edited July 31, 2014 by woodyren

[marci22]

If all this is true then by default the remaining staff must be working harder but they also must be earning a lot more.

 

I asked a server about the drink packages and he said that 'the lazy ones like it', meaning that they were guaranteed a certain amount so why work any harder. It seemed like before the packages, there was more incentive to work harder, make more money.

[marci22]

I am looking into the tippers thinking now.

 

Do you expect to get better service if you tip on top of the auto gratuities than a person who doesn't?

 

Are you OK for another person to miss their turn as the waiter bypasses them or the barman serves you even though they have been standing waiting or sitting with an empty drink before you?

 

Why is it so important to so many people that a barman remembers your drink?

 

Do I expect better service if I tip extra? Don't know if I expect it, but it usually works out that way. I actually don't like when the bartender remembers my drink, because when it's made before I ask, I may want something else that day. When this happens I just let them know that after that drink I'm changing and they don't do that the next time.

 

It is ok for someone else to 'miss their turn'? No, I don't expect the bartender to do that, it's rude. But it is nice if they acknowledge you while you are waiting, in any case. My guess is that a server might do that if a customer was particularly rude or cheap. He could say 'oh I didn't see you there'. But you know he did.

Edited July 31, 2014 by marci22

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

Are you saying Tips as over and above Grats? If so I say not so well educated!

 

That's not what I meant - I was referring to gratuities, or "tips" prior to the gratuity charge every day. No need to pass judgement on me, you should probably chill a little.

[casinostreer]

I actually made it through this whole thread! Whew! That's a lot! We are some passionate cruisers!

 

Anyway - being from the US, having been a bartender for over 10 years, and as someone who has purchased the premium drink package for my upcoming cruise, this was quite interesting to me.

 

The interaction between customer and bartender usually consists of: eye contact - greeting - drink order - preparation of the drink(s) - delivery of drink - monetary transaction and farewell. It's only in America that we expect "Southern Hospitality" and jovial energetic service. Is that really required to enjoy the drink? If so - just let the bartender know.

 

For me - anyone who waves money at me at a bar - will be the last to be served. I do not tip at the beginning of the transaction - because I want to see how good the drink is. (GOOD - not necessarily strong.) BUT I know how great it is to have my night made by a big tip - so sometimes I like to pay it forward and leave a big tip. It doesn't make me a bad person. I know well in advance that it's not required.

 

As a side (funny) note - we used to call the "greasing the wheel" a PRE-TIP. We would joke and tell people that unless they pre-tipped - we couldn't guarantee the quality of their drink - or that the drink would even be what they ordered. :-) Fun times.

 

Lastly - are we sure that the majority of the income of RC bartenders is made up of tips? It's only in the US that we allow that practice. Outside the US - servers and bartenders are paid a living hourly wage and being a bartender or server is a respectable and honorable profession.

 

Thanks for listening! I love this website. Cruising AND witty banter!! :-) Happy cruising everyone!

Edited August 3, 2014 by casinostreer

[big al]

I have just read all 121 posts..wow- lots of interesting & heated debates...I will be taking my 30th cruise in October on the Oasis, and I am considering the $40 drink package..I drink mostly beer, but since we are Diamond, I am still going back & forth as to whether this is worth it to me..since the 15% gratuity is included, I figure it averages out to about 7 beers a day ( I don't drink soda, and once in a blue moon, a glass of wine..)..the RCI advertisement states that it doesn't include "specialty beers", which is what I mostly drink..I am a bit of a beer snob, and like real beers, not truck driver beers ( Bud, Coors, Miller Lite,etc..) , and also I prefer draft over bottled..RCI has probably the worst draft beers of all the cruise lines I've been on- and we have done CCL, NCL ,Disney, HAL, Princess, Celebrity besides RCI..even the bartenders have admitted to me that the drafts are always broken...does anybody know if the $40 package includes all drafts and also what about the specialty beers listed in the British Pub? BTW, my brother works in a high end French restaurant and makes $3 an hour salary..he averages $100-125 a night in tips..so in a 40 hour week, typically he'll make $120 in salary and $ 500-625 in tips..so needless to say, tips are very important to him..my ex-wife worked at Bennigan's & Friday's in the early 90's and was making $1.25 an hr ( that's correct- ONE DOLLAR AND TWENTY FIVE CENTS AN HOUR!!) , and made between $35 ( bad) to $75 ( good) a night in tips..hardly enough to pay rent if living alone..you should know that ONLY in America do we pay such lousy minimum wages to our workers- the UK just raised the minimum wage to $10.36 ( equivalent) an hour, but $14.36 in London..in Germany, minimum is $11.50 hr, and in Australia, it's $15.50 an hour..the only tips they usually get are from Americans because we are so used to it...I am a good tipper because I know how hard most of them work...I understand both points of view here: one is it's not your problem if the worker is unhappy with the tips program & drink package, and two- on the other hand, if YOU were working 7 days a week like many do & 60-70 hour weeks ( and more sometimes more) , making a certain amount, and the company changes it's tipping policies that you don't believe benefit you, you are entitled to be upset or angry- what you shouldn't do is transfer that unhappiness to the customer...and customers should also be aware that tips are their MAIN source of income, I bet most of you would have strong opinions on these new policies as well..It would be nice if we ( employees & patrons) could find a agreeable balance ....

 

Big Al

[dmbmay98]

On celebrity it seemed like everyone had the alcohol package because they give it away for free so much. The service was very bad and I am hoping that does not happen with RCCL.

 

The bartenders on the ship told me that how it works is they combine all the gratuities from the alcohol packages. The bartenders then get paid per swipe. So lets say for all packages there was 1,000 swipes and the total gratuities was $2,000. Each swipe is worth $2. So if the bartender had 10 swipes from people with alcohol packages, then they get $20.

 

Obviously this is a low scale but the amount per swipe is dependent on number of drinks that all the people get and the total amount of gratuities.

[kopelo]

My few cents..

 

Pre-tipping before service or what's called greasing the wheel is bribery in a lot of cultures, including mine. Whilst some Asian and Euro countries have the tendency of rounding up the service related bill to the closest full number (i.e. 9,3€ becomes 10€ flat), the expected tipping of additional 10-15% is pretty much non-existent outside the Americas and is actually seen in some places as insulting to everyone involved, for example the tip giver might be someone who "has to show off" or "thinks they're a better man than the other". In most Asian cultures the confusion that happens when someone tries to tip is just awful to watch - this is the case especially outside the beaten track.. of course in the very touristy places this does not apply.

 

What's missing from this conversation is that a relatively high percentage of the passengers on a given RCCL cruise are likely not from the US but instead from the non-tipping countries. It's my understanding that even on the Caribbean cruises folks from the (generally very anti-tipping) UK are a major one. Even the employees are likely from the non-tipping places of the world. So, if someone chooses not to tip at all - especially on a cruise that does not originate from the US - they're well within their cultural & behavioral reasons, despite the presence of heavy US tippers on-board. Yes, this may seem rude and in a sense it is.

 

Yes, almost everyone understands the minimum wage arguments with tipping. Yes, some also (quite accurately in my opinion) point out that it's the employer who should pay a reasonable wage and that the risk of running the business shouldn't be outsourced to the employees in case of rainy days. Some elect not to tip because they can save the money that way. Some just don't care.

 

I personally let the auto-gratuities roll as-is (if such are available) but otherwise have hard time remembering that I have to give tips whenever I'm in a place that requires them. If a service charge is included in the price of the drink packages I'd be blunt and assume no extra is needed, unless some very extra-ordinary circumstances came alight. Why should I care how it's distributed amongst the crew? I trust RCCL to do it properly.

[Scotty G]

Lastly - are we sure that the majority of the income of RC bartenders is made up of tips? It's only in the US that we allow that practice. Outside the US - servers and bartenders are paid a living hourly wage and being a bartender or server is a respectable and honorable profession.

 

Bar-persons on RCI and other RCCL ships get the 15% gratuity equally shared with other bar folks. They get to keep all additional tips. Sometimes cash tips are shared at a particular bar.

Their contacts give them about $25 every two weeks, room and board, and minimal insurance. Their travel to the ship is paid by the company and at the end of their 8 month contract they pay their way home. Usually they get one shore-leave a week if their schedule permits. That is usually 3-4 hour time off the ship.

The bar folks are without a doubt the best paid "hourly" (using an American term here) employees on the ship. All the other hourly folks get the same plan less the 15% bar gratuity.

Hope this helps clarify!

[Sail2k]

kopelo,

you are correct...as a matter of fact tipping in some places in China is against the law!! Not only that, but you can downright almost get your arse kicked for doing it. Had this conversation not too long ago with my cousin who travels to Asia quite often and he says that they view tipping Americans as rude and snobby, and often will result in unexpected (reverse) outcomes that you would expect....

[heyabbott]

And remember RCI is NOT an American corporation, Liberian, and not subject to US wage and hour laws, and generally not an American crew. Tipping insults RCI, it's like the passengers are saying"you don't know how to treat employees ".

 

 

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[Mich455]

I've sailed on Freedom with no drinks package and on Allure with a drinks package. I found the service to be fantastic on both ships. If going to the bar to order my drink I gave no additional tip. If being served round the pool,in the theatre or table service in a bar I would give an additional tip. On both cruises there were a few bartenders who I thought had gone the extra mile so they got an additional tip. I actually find that being polite, using the words please and thank you, seem to go a long way in getting me good service. Unfortunately I've seen many of my fellow cruisers treating staff on cruise ships the way servants would have been treated in the dark ages, which, in some cases could explain the bad service

 

 

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[casinostreer]

Bar-persons on RCI and other RCCL ships get the 15% gratuity equally shared with other bar folks. They get to keep all additional tips. Sometimes cash tips are shared at a particular bar.

Their contacts give them about $25 every two weeks, room and board, and minimal insurance. Their travel to the ship is paid by the company and at the end of their 8 month contract they pay their way home. Usually they get one shore-leave a week if their schedule permits. That is usually 3-4 hour time off the ship.

The bar folks are without a doubt the best paid "hourly" (using an American term here) employees on the ship. All the other hourly folks get the same plan less the 15% bar gratuity.

Hope this helps clarify!

 

Thanks! That certainly helps to clarify! :-)

[mollyeilis]

And remember RCI is NOT an American corporation, Liberian, and not subject to US wage and hour laws, and generally not an American crew. Tipping insults RCI, it's like the passengers are saying"you don't know how to treat employees ".

 

 

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I"m not sure it actually works that way. The cruiselines are the ones that have created their very low pay structure then put the auto-gratuities in place so that we pay the bulk of the salaries. It would be odd for a room host to be used to tips and expect them, but to have the bartender NOT expect them to be part of their salary.