ESTA - rejection at immigration

[PurpleMoonlight]

I hope so.

[Lady49Monet]

I've no intention of using a lawyer, but how could the US possibly know of an arrest if it's not recorded by the police?

 

 

Well there is what is known of as Police Intelligence. I wouldn't trust that there is no record. Sexual Offences and Offences against children might be recorded even though there was no charge.

 

Please don't try and second guess this. I know you are worried but play with a straight bat on this. In my view it is wrong for the US to ask this question lots of people get arrested it does not mean they are guilty. Apply for a full visa.

[Josie8]

No recorded arrest on the paperwork you have access to might not mean there isn't any other paperwork with it recorded on. Who knows!!

 

If you can truthfully answer all the ESTA questions and so obtain the ESTA, then go for it.

 

If [as the visa test seems to indicate] there is an element of doubt, don't hang around, make that Embassy appointment.

 

 

I think now, the term is, 'the ball's in your court'.

 

 

Suggest you make a subject Access request under the Data Protection Act first as you appear to have time.

 

http://www.acro.police.uk/Subject_Access_FAQs.aspx

 

Your personal details such as your name and date of birth, impending prosecutions, cautions, final warnings, reprimands, convictions, Penalty Notices and information relating to the issue of firearms certificates may appear on your disclosure. Arrest events that do not result in conviction will also appear. In other words, if you were arrested and the police took no further action, or you were found not guilty at court the details surrounding this may appear on your disclosure.

 

The operative word is "May". If it doesn't show up under the Subject Access Request then you will be ok for the ESTA.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Josie8

[Salacia]

I know someone that has just come back from Florida. He said that speaking to some Americans they apparently have almost a hard a job getting back into their country if they leave as we do getting in. :p

 

So you know someone who spoke to someone who said ...oh good, this just keeps getting more like a tabloid story!

 

And the story is sounding more hinkey and troublesome with every post. My suggestion is to stay off the internet and consult an attorney.

[laktex]

My suggestion is to stay off the internet and consult an attorney.

You may get advice from a lawyer but (as I have suggested) for a decision its the American Embassy.

[balf]

You may get advice from a lawyer but (as I have suggested) for a decision its the American Embassy.

 

You MAY indeed though it's likely that unless you contact a lawer who specialises in the subject you will end up no wiser.

 

These boards are of little use on such a query, every one is an expert but no one is, but your advice is the only sensible one and I would suggest the OP takes it.

 

David.

[PurpleMoonlight]

So you know someone who spoke to someone who said ...oh good, this just keeps getting more like a tabloid story!

 

And the story is sounding more hinkey and troublesome with every post. My suggestion is to stay off the internet and consult an attorney.

 

I guess we have a difference sense of humour. :rolleyes:

 

I declined the offer of a solicitor when I was questioned by the police and I am certainly not going to pay one just to get a US visa.

 

I will put my case in the standard application to the US Embassy and take my chances. Thank you all ....

[frenchmartiniplease]

Cool!

 

Sure all will go well. It did for us and lots of others.

 

Have a great trip!!

[Salacia]

I guess we have a difference sense of humour. :rolleyes:

 

I declined the offer of a solicitor when I was questioned by the police and I am certainly not going to pay one just to get a US visa.

 

I will put my case in the standard application to the US Embassy and take my chances. Thank you all ....

 

Hi PurpleMoonlight. Yes, you're right in that we all have a difference sense of humour. But there is nothing funny about being accused and arrested on a charge of pedophilia, as you have related.

 

You declined the offer of a solicitor when you were arrested, and you continue to refuse the suggestion that you seek legal counsel, and that is certainly your right.

 

Personally, if someone accused me of such a heinous crime, after which I was falsely arrested, I would seek legal counsel to clear my name - and not just for a US Visa. Frankly, I wouldn't care if it cost me every penny I had, I would take it to the Court, not the Internet. So, we not only differ in our sense of humor, but also in our sense of honor.

 

Salacia

[PurpleMoonlight]

Despite what the TV adverts and nuisance phone calls and texts may suggest, the UK is not a nation that readily jumps into litigation.

 

I was not falsely arrested, I was correctly arrested as the result of a complaint made against me. It was quickly discovered that complaint was false and malicious and no further action was taken against me. The complainant now benefits from a criminal record for her actions.

 

My name is clear and it has never caused me an issue until now. An issue that is caused solely by the US authorities because they require a declaration of any arrest in your life, rather than any convictions or prosecutions. The US obviously feel this is wholly appropriate to protect their country, we are all potential terrorists no doubt, but many would disagree and feel it discourages many decent hard working people from visiting your country.

Edited August 17, 2014 by PurpleMoonlight

[Victoria2]

Despite what the TV adverts and nuisance phone calls and texts may suggest, the UK is not a nation that readily jumps into litigation.

 

I was not falsely arrested, I was correctly arrested as the result of a complaint made against me. It was quickly discovered that complaint was false and malicious and no further action was taken against me. The complainant now benefits from a criminal record for her actions.

 

My name is clear and it has never caused me an issue until now. An issue that is caused solely by the US authorities because they require a declaration of any arrest in your life, rather than any convictions or prosecutions. The US obviously feel this is wholly appropriate to protect their country, we are all potential terrorists no doubt, but many would disagree and feel it discourages many decent hard working people from visiting your country.

 

A vey interesting thread. You've had lots of advice and you're going to take the only sensible route.

 

I have my fingers crossed you have an enjoyable cruise before coming back to sort all this out.

[southwestie]

I suppose actually seeking advise from a qualified immigration lawyer rather than than uninformed though well intentioned opinions of anonymous internet forum users is out of the question?

 

 

I agree with you here, you can phone someone who really knows or you can phone the US Embassy, I am sure they know.

 

It is clear as day , if you have any arrest then you need a visa and the embassy is the place to go.

 

I cant believe so many dont know what is asked of them on the ESTA application, or Do they

[1160451]

I suppose actually seeking advise from a qualified immigration lawyer rather than than uninformed though well intentioned opinions of anonymous internet forum users is out of the question?

 

My thoughts entirely, just imagine saying at immigration, "the people on cruise critic forum said it would be ok".

Take official guidance would be my advice for what it's worth.

[fantasy51]

I think PurpleMoonlight has got some very good advice here, including hearing of someone in a very similar position. 'Fishing' expeditions can sometimes be useful.

 

I would agree that in a case like this, the best thing to do would be to get a proper Visa, not an ESTA. After all, you may want to return one day and a 10-year visa would save any future problems.

 

If that fails, pay the money for an immigration lawyer.

 

PurpleMoonlight, you said that the stress is affecting you. I think you've had enough encouragement on this thread to be 98% sure that all will go well once you have that interview at the embassy. I'm glad that people here have helped you to make that decision. (Just ignore the unhelpful comments.) Now, enjoy your P&O cruise, forget about the visa application until you come back, look forward to the TA and the rest of the holiday.

 

You're taking action - so you can stop worrying.

Edited August 17, 2014 by fantasy51

[Dancer Bob]

To add to what david said, I did a land crossing into the US a couple of days ago. I was asked, Have you ever had your fingerprints taken? Well, yes, among other things for a FAST card, which is part of the US Trusted Traveler program, and would have shown up as soon as my passport was swiped. So assume whatever US CBP asks, they know the answer already.

[Olliesmum]

[quote

 

Personally, if someone accused me of such a heinous crime, after which I was falsely arrested, I would seek legal counsel to clear my name - and not just for a US Visa. Frankly, I wouldn't care if it cost me every penny I had, I would take it to the Court, not the Internet. So, we not only differ in our sense of humor, but also in our sense of honor.

 

Salacia

 

Under English law, if someone makes a complaint to the police about another person causing the other person to be arrested the complainant cannot be sued for defamation by the accused. Even if the accused is released without charge.

[jimmybean]

Personally, I wouldn't bother going to a country that has such ludicrous restrictions. It is one of the reasons that both Cunard and P&O, for example, include world cruises, amongst many others extended cruises, that don't go into USA territory. A high proportion of potential customers are restricted from travelling!

 

There are hundreds of thousands of Brits with criminal convictions, many for incredibly minor offences that were committed many years ago. Why those people would want to subject themselves to scrutiny and judgement from US officials is entirely a matter for them. Many, the vast majority I would strongly suspect, choose not to or some simply ignore the rules and actually get away with it most of the time.

 

As we believe that both my wife and myself would, almost certainly, require a visa to visit the USA, despite me doing that several times prior to their bonkers policy being introduced & also having never been arrested or held in custody, we have chosen to avoid the place like the plague! It is far too much hassle & expense to bother with.

 

There are plenty of interesting places to visit without kow-towing and ingratiating yourself to the whim of bureaucrats & perpetuating such a jaundiced and unjust process. To those with convictions or arrests who want to visit a country that treats potential paying guests that way and categorises a token fine over 25 years ago for a moving vehicle or petty public order offence alongside major crimes like murder, rape, drug trafficking & fraud etc - well, good luck to you. I already know 2 people who were refused a visa, one had a drink/driving conviction 20+ years ago (fine & driving ban, no imprisonment), the other was for an unconditional discharge for unlawful picketing during the miners' strike in the 80's! Both are retired, ex professional people, one having aspired to become a local councillor & served as a Magistrate!

 

I wouldn't want to set foot in the place nor waste my time, effort or money trying to obtain a visa in order to go to the USA. Sod 'em, I'll go somewhere else where common sense, justice, reasonableness and fairness prevail.

 

By the way, it us unlawful for the Uk Gov't or Police authorities to provide the USA with criminal record data unless it is on the prescribed list of activities that are monitored by Interpol. So, there is no way that US authorities should have any information on UK citizens who have not committed a major crime and/or are suspected of major criminal activity. How much confidence do you have in that? I would have none at all, wouldn't trust either Gov't to uphold that for one minute - so it isn't worth the risk if you really want to go there. Grovel for the visa & hope you get lucky.

 

I feel a need to respond to this posting. I found it (as an American) hurtful and insulting.

 

We, on this board, are strangers whose communication is generated by common interests and a desire to be helpful to one another.

 

We come from different countries and different cultures. Historically, our countries have had differences.

 

I, for one, don't agree with all of my country's politics and policies. I am not a "my country right or worse" person, but it is my country.

 

Our spouses may be fat, or bald, or have crooked teeth, or warts---all visible--but not any reason for a complete stranger to make disparaging remarks calling attention to such flaws. We know our spouses flaws. In a similar fashion, we know our country's flaws. Similarly, there is nothing to be gained from a stranger pointing them out--except hurt feelings.

 

Not surprisingly, there are "mean things" I---or anyone else--could point out about the author's homeland. None of our countries are politically or socially perfect. But, I see many reasons to avoid exchanges of insults.

 

One of the things I have enjoyed and admired about CC boards is how sensitively cultural clashes have been discussed. We, who travel together and who communicate through the CC medium, come from different countries. We may see flaws in others' countries, but it is not typical to read anything insulting posted about someone else's country. …Maybe, there is another board for this purpose, but (in my opinion) cruise critic is not the place.

 

The author of this posting appears to be a man of principle. There are ways to stand up for principles without being hurtful to others. I do NOT believe his vehemence was intended to be hurtful. I just want to comment that--to me---it was.

 

Jimmybean

[Lady49Monet]

I feel a need to respond to this posting. I found it (as an American) hurtful and insulting.

 

 

 

We, on this board, are strangers whose communication is generated by common interests and a desire to be helpful to one another.

 

 

 

We come from different countries and different cultures. Historically, our countries have had differences.

 

 

 

I, for one, don't agree with all of my country's politics and policies. I am not a "my country right or worse" person, but it is my country.

 

 

 

Our spouses may be fat, or bald, or have crooked teeth, or warts---all visible--but not any reason for a complete stranger to make disparaging remarks calling attention to such flaws. We know our spouses flaws. In a similar fashion, we know our country's flaws. Similarly, there is nothing to be gained from a stranger pointing them out--except hurt feelings.

 

 

 

Not surprisingly, there are "mean things" I---or anyone else--could point out about the author's homeland. None of our countries are politically or socially perfect. But, I see many reasons to avoid exchanges of insults.

 

 

 

One of the things I have enjoyed and admired about CC boards is how sensitively cultural clashes have been discussed. We, who travel together and who communicate through the CC medium, come from different countries. We may see flaws in others' countries, but it is not typical to read anything insulting posted about someone else's country. …Maybe, there is another board for this purpose, but (in my opinion) cruise critic is not the place.

 

 

 

The author of this posting appears to be a man of principle. There are ways to stand up for principles without being hurtful to others. I do NOT believe his vehemence was intended to be hurtful. I just want to comment that--to me---it was.

 

 

 

Jimmybean

 

 

Yes I am British but I thought this posting was insulting. We can all find things wrong with our respective countries but I do think it is not helpful or respectful to launch a tirade about he US immigration policy. I too think their policy on asking people to reveal arrests is OTT but I respect and understand why they want to know and it would not stop me visiting the country. Our own immigration policy is hardly something to be proud of. Obviously people on here have their own views but respect and curtesy should be observed.

 

 

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[PurpleMoonlight]

Hi jimmybean.

 

It's a shame that you feel offended by that post. I suspect it was written more out of frustration than aggression.

 

It is very easy to get arrested in the UK. A simple arrest carries no consequences in our own society so the police perhaps use it more often than they should. You can easily be arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or like me being the victim of a deliberate false and malicious complaint.

 

The visa for me will mean a day off work, a trip to London (100 miles away) and about a total cost of $300. Not the end of the world, but considering I have no conviction, no charge, no prosecution it does seem somewhat unfair. If I don't get the visa it will cost me a lot more though as the holiday is now booked and paid for. That was my error I accept, I should have investigated the US visa requirements beforehand, but innocent people don't really consider that they will be deemed a criminal until they can prove otherwise.

Edited August 17, 2014 by PurpleMoonlight

[balf]

 

Not surprisingly, there are "mean things" I---or anyone else--could point out about the author's homeland. /QUOTE]

 

Of course, it's just that most British people wouldn't react in quite the same way.

 

Shows how different we really are.

 

David.

[brigittetom]

Personally, I wouldn't bother going to a country that has such ludicrous restrictions.

 

 

On the bright side......we have tens of millions who just walk across the boarder illegally and take up residence. What's your point?

[PurpleMoonlight]

On the bright side......we have tens of millions who just walk across the boarder illegally and take up residence. What's your point?

 

Doesn't that just prove the lunacy of your official holiday visa process?

[brigittetom]

PurpleMoonlight......Yes it does...I was being sarcastic. :). I also found Pies4u's post offensive on many levels.

[Pies4u]

Yes I am British but I thought this posting was insulting. We can all find things wrong with our respective countries but I do think it is not helpful or respectful to launch a tirade about he US immigration policy. I too think their policy on asking people to reveal arrests is OTT but I respect and understand why they want to know and it would not stop me visiting the country. Our own immigration policy is hardly something to be proud of. Obviously people on here have their own views but respect and curtesy should be observed.

 

 

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Cheers, that's your opinion. Mine just happens to be different. I see no lack of courtesy or respect. I have a specific & personal approach to a matter that was once a source of disappointment & frustration but now is one of strong principle and sense of natural justice. I offered a take on a thorny subject. Good job I don't get over sensitive about opinions with which I disagree. Freedom of thought & speech is another matter & debate for another day.

 

FWIW: I have nothing against US citizens, only met a relative few but they have been, without exception, wonderful people. As I said, I object to a policy and equally mistrust particular Gov'ts. I'll leave it at that.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Pies4u

[Lady49Monet]

Cheers, that's your opinion. Mine just happens to be different. I see no lack of courtesy or respect. I have a specific & personal approach to a matter that was once a source of disappointment & frustration but now is one of strong principle and sense of natural justice. I offered a take on a thorny subject. Good job I don't get over sensitive about opinions with which I disagree. Freedom of thought & speech is another matter & debate for another day.

 

FWIW: I have nothing against US citizens, only met a relative few but they have been, without exception, wonderful people. As I said, I object to a policy and equally mistrust particular Gov'ts. I'll leave it at that.

 

 

I have no problem with your view and as I have already stated my own view is that US has a stringent system for vetting visitors to its shores which does lack 'an innocent until proven guilty factor' I have a problem with how you presented your view on this forum which in my view lacks courtesy and respect for citizens of that country. It comes across as supercilious and high handed; which you may not have intended. Trying to differentiate between individuals and the laws that govern a country is always difficult and more especially on a public message board.

 

 

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