Help Understanding Jones Act

[disneydiane61]

I need help understanding the Jones Act and if it is possible to book a princess cruise. Here is the info.

 

First leg on Ruby Princess

 

 

DAY DATE PORT ARRIVE DEPART

Sun Apr 26 Los Angeles (San Pedro), CA 4:00pm

Mon Apr 27 At Sea

Tue Apr 28 At Sea

Wed Apr 29 Vancouver, BC, Canada 7:30am

 

Second leg on Ruby Princess

ITINERARY

 

DAY DATE PORT ARRIVE DEPART

Wed Apr 29 Vancouver, BC, Canada 4:30pm

Thu Apr 30 At Sea

Fri May 1 Ketchikan, AK 7:00am 5:00pm

Sat May 2 At Sea

Sun May 3 Seattle, WA 7:00am

 

So I get on in Los Angeles, off in Vancouver, back on in Vancouver and off in Seattle. Can I do this? If not, could I do a round trip Vancouver on another Cruise ship? Can I do it if I choose 2 different cruise lines? Any help understanding would be greatly appreciated.

[RickEk]

The short answer is no...

[Cruisin' Chick]

You're not cabotage so it's not the Jones Act, but the Passenger Services Vessels Act. If you switch to a different ship for one of the legs, you may be okay.

[ar1950]

You're not cabotage .......

 

According to current definition of the word the OP would be these days.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabotage

 

:eek:

[Cruisin' Chick]

This is the act that prevents certain B-to-Bs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

[Pam in CA]

The Jones Act has little to do with this as it applies to cabotage, commercial shipping and crew members.

 

What you are referring to is the Passenger Vessel Services Act. Here's a brief summary:

 

1. If you embark and disembark at the same US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a NEAR foreign port. Near is defined as North America, Central America and the Caribbean.

 

2. If you embark at one US port and disembark at a different US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a FAR foreign port. The closest "far" foreign ports to the US are South America and Aruba.

 

So even though your cruise goes to Vancouver, it's illegal unless the itinerary includes a stop in South America.

 

You can change ships or stay overnight in a hotel in Vancouver to avoid violating the PVSA. The fine is $300 and any ship or cruise line cannot knowingly allow you to board and violate the PVSA.

[paul929207]

As far as PVSA is concerned, you would be boarding in LA and getting off in Seattle. You would not be visiting a "distant" foreign port. So the trip would not be legal.

[cherylandtk]

...So I get on in Los Angeles, off in Vancouver, back on in Vancouver and off in Seattle. Can I do this? NoIf not, could I do a round trip Vancouver on another Cruise ship? YesCan I do it if I choose 2 different cruise lines? YesAny help understanding would be greatly appreciated.

You cannot do this trip on the same ship; but if you change ships you would be fine.

[shanecindy21403]

I've tried it and Princess said NO it is a PVSA violation.

[BillB48]

I've tried it and Princess said NO it is a PVSA violation.

 

If you are referring to doing the proposed itinerary by the OP on two different ships, that is permissible under the PVSA. Many people get tripped up by the PVSA, I suspect who ever you were talking to at Princess did not fully understand the question or perhaps another not so obvious complication was involved.

[BarbaraP]

The Jones Act has little to do with this as it applies to cabotage, commercial shipping and crew members.

 

What you are referring to is the Passenger Vessel Services Act. Here's a brief summary:

 

1. If you embark and disembark at the same US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a NEAR foreign port. Near is defined as North America, Central America and the Caribbean.

 

2. If you embark at one US port and disembark at a different US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a FAR foreign port. The closest "far" foreign ports to the US are South America and Aruba.

 

So even though your cruise goes to Vancouver, it's illegal unless the itinerary includes a stop in South America.

 

You can change ships or stay overnight in a hotel in Vancouver to avoid violating the PVSA. The fine is $300 and any ship or cruise line cannot knowingly allow you to board and violate the PVSA.

 

:confused:So if the B2B was from LA to YVR and then back to LA on the same ship it would be okay?

[cherylandtk]

:confused:So if the B2B was from LA to YVR and then back to LA on the same ship it would be okay?

Yes.

[AE_Collector]

Yes because your start and stop US port are the same AND you visited a near foreign port...Vancouver.

 

Exactly the same as cruising LA to Hawaii and back. A US round trip with a near foreign port stop included (Ensenada).

 

You need to stay over in Vancouver (you'll love it here) and get the next 7 day Vancouver round trip to Alaska OR get off in Vancouver and travel to Seattle to do a 7 day Alaska round trip.

 

Terry

[land lover]

The Jones Act has little to do with this as it applies to cabotage, commercial shipping and crew members.

 

What you are referring to is the Passenger Vessel Services Act. Here's a brief summary:

 

1. If you embark and disembark at the same US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a NEAR foreign port. Near is defined as North America, Central America and the Caribbean.

 

2. If you embark at one US port and disembark at a different US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a FAR foreign port. The closest "far" foreign ports to the US are South America and Aruba.

 

So even though your cruise goes to Vancouver, it's illegal unless the itinerary includes a stop in South America.

 

You can change ships or stay overnight in a hotel in Vancouver to avoid violating the PVSA. The fine is $300 and any ship or cruise line cannot knowingly allow you to board and violate the PVSA.

 

 

I have first hand experience with this as my friend had to pay the $300, a few years back...on a 4 day RCI out of LA. She became very sea sick the first night(visited doctor had shot, etc) but wanted to disembark...the next day in San Diego, the next Port was Catalina, she was concerned about getting stuck on the island...so demanded to get off...it was lots of paper work and a pain in the butt as I handled the whole thing......So if one is thnking about not telling them and just getting off, be prepared for road blocks and paying the $300.

Edited November 17, 2014 by land lover

[helenb]

:confused:So if the B2B was from LA to YVR and then back to LA on the same ship it would be okay?

 

 

 

Yes. We actually did this on the east coast with HAL. We took two B2B 7 day cruises: Boston to Montreal, and then Montreal to Boston. HAL even marketed it as a 14 day cruise. It is allowed because we embarked and disembarked in the same US port.

[paul929207]

Yes. We actually did this on the east coast with HAL. We took two B2B 7 day cruises: Boston to Montreal, and then Montreal to Boston. HAL even marketed it as a 14 day cruise. It is allowed because we embarked and disembarked in the same US port.

and stopeed in a non-US port

[Cruisin' Chick]

I have first hand experience with this as my friend had to pay the $300, a few years back...on a 4 day RCI out of LA. She became very sea sick the first night(visited doctor had shot, etc) but wanted to disembark...the next day in San Diego, the next Port was Catalina, she was concerned about getting stuck on the island...so demanded to get off...it was lots of paper work and a pain in the butt as I handled the whole thing......So if one is thnking about not telling them and just getting off, be prepared for road blocks and paying the $300.

 

And from what I understand, if you get off the ship with the intention of not returning (a deliberate violation of the PVSA), you may end up in more trouble than just being fined. The cruise line might ban you for future cruises.

 

I just wonder if someone intends to do this, do they just bring a back pack's worth of clothing?

[Jim Avery]

Remember, this very vital piece of Bureaucratic Lawmaking is vital to protect the huge and majorly important U.S. passenger ship industry.:eek: So any inconvenience or confusion to us, the seagoing public, is darn well worth it.:D:D

[BillB48]

And from what I understand' date=' if you get off the ship with the intention of not returning (a deliberate violation of the PVSA), you may end up in more trouble than just being fined. The cruise line might ban you for future cruises.

 

I just wonder if someone intends to do this, do they just bring a back pack's worth of clothing?[/quote']

 

If you leave the ship at another US port before returning to the original port, that would be a violation of the PVSA indeed. However it is the ship that gets fined, not the departing passenger. Because you signed the cruise contract, they are able to collect the money from you, usually by zapping your credit card. I'm sure if you had elected a cash account with the ship and bailed out with a zero balance, they then could bill you. If you did not pay up I would think they could unfriend you and place you on their no sail list!

[Pam in CA]

Remember, this very vital piece of Bureaucratic Lawmaking is vital to protect the huge and majorly important U.S. passenger ship industry.:eek: So any inconvenience or confusion to us, the seagoing public, is darn well worth it.:D:D

Actually, it was, and still is, implemented to protect US commercial shipping. Back when it was passed, cruise ships didn't exist. :)

[AE_Collector]

If you leave the ship at another US port before returning to the original port, that would be a violation of the PVSA indeed.

 

Not necessarily. There are situations where you board in one US port and disembark in another. One ways between West Coast and Hawaii and one ways between the West Coast and Florida through the Panama Canal are okay. With Hawaii a near foreign port is needed, usually Ensenada or Vancouver and with the Panama Canal a disant foreign port is needed, usually Aruba or Cartegena.

 

Someone could disembark part way through a cruise in these examples as long as they have already been to their required foreign port.

 

This is why people get so confused with the rules!

 

Terry

[Jim Avery]

Actually, it was, and still is, implemented to protect US commercial shipping. Back when it was passed, cruise ships didn't exist. :)

 

Right you are. No one in their right mind took a ship unless absolutely necessary.:D I guess my point is there is little U.S. shipping for it to protect. Although a heavy percentage of shipping world wide is ultimately owned by U.S. entities or persons.:D

[Merlinite]

Yes because your start and stop US port are the same AND you visited a near foreign port...Vancouver.

 

You need to stay over in Vancouver (you'll love it here) and get the next 7 day Vancouver round trip to Alaska OR get off in Vancouver and travel to Seattle to do a 7 day Alaska round trip.

 

Terry

 

or you could skip all the nonsense and pay the $300- fine... right?

[paul929207]

or you could skip all the nonsense and pay the $300- fine... right?

No, the cruise line can get in trouble for letting passenger violate the act. Penalties can include banning the line from US ports. So the cruise line will make every effort to prevent you from leaving illegally

[cherylandtk]

Not necessarily. There are situations where you board in one US port and disembark in another. One ways between West Coast and Hawaii and one ways between the West Coast and Florida through the Panama Canal are okay. With Hawaii a near foreign port is needed, usually Ensenada or Vancouver and with the Panama Canal a disant foreign port is needed, usually Aruba or Cartegena.

 

Someone could disembark part way through a cruise in these examples as long as they have already been to their required foreign port.

 

This is why people get so confused with the rules!

 

Terry

Sorry, but this is not entirely correct. A one-way from the west coast to Hawaii would have to stop in a distant foreign port, not Ensenada. That is why most of the Hawaii cruises are round trips, not one ways. The closest distant foreign port in the Pacific is Fanning Island in Kiribati.

 

On the Atlantic side (which is the transcanal route) the ABC islands are listed distant ports in the regulations, Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao. Or a port in South America (but not Central America).

Edited November 18, 2014 by cherylandtk