QE Cruise to nowhere

[sogne]

We passed ports in Holland, Belgium, France, The Channel Islands and the UK

 

the only alternative ports would have been Zeebrugge, Le Harve and Cherbourg. Guernsey (St Peter Port) is a tender port. All these ports would present a problem in bad weather either entering, pilot boarding or berthing. Comment has been made that Marco Polo "got in". First she is a much smaller ship and secondly according to AIS info she went to Antwerp on the 21st Dec. That is of course some way up the Scheldt rather different to attempting to get in to the locks at Ijmuiden in 45knots +

[sogne]

Yes as always. I can never understand why the captain can't have a chat in the theatre where he can explain in person what the situation is."We want the captain". Indeed.

 

David.

 

 

 

and the chances of this turning into a slanging match from some irate passengers are?

[Heisenberg18]

We passed ports in Holland, Belgium, France, The Channel Islands and the UK

 

the only alternative ports would have been Zeebrugge, Le Harve and Cherbourg. Guernsey (St Peter Port) is a tender port. All these ports would present a problem in bad weather either entering, pilot boarding or berthing. Comment has been made that Marco Polo "got in". First she is a much smaller ship and secondly according to AIS info she went to Antwerp on the 21st Dec. That is of course some way up the Scheldt rather different to attempting to get in to the locks at Ijmuiden in 45knots +

 

The relevance of mentioning that Marco Polo docked somewhere rather than nowhere was that operating the QE in the English Channel in December is inherently risky, particularly when attempting to enter a narrow canal. These risks were not communicated. Would you fly in a aircraft if you knew the chances of reaching your destination were less than even and that you would simply be returned to the start point. The fact that the engines worked and in flight catering was delivered is only half the contract.

[themanwithahat]

There is nothing in the 'contract' entitling you to visit any port, let alone any specific port.

[Heisenberg18]

There is nothing in the 'contract' entitling you to visit any port, let alone any specific port.

While I am sure that Cunard will have complied with their contractural obligations I hope you will agree with the thrust of my argument, that the risk of being stuck on the boat for the entire period and not disembarking is not mentioned anywhere in the advertising. Furthermore, when it is clear to the operator that a safe docking is impossible the passengers should be made aware?

[themanwithahat]

While I am sure that Cunard will have complied with their contractural obligations I hope you will agree with the thrust of my argument, that the risk of being stuck on the boat for the entire period and not disembarking is not mentioned anywhere in the advertising. Furthermore, when it is clear to the operator that a safe docking is impossible the passengers should be made aware?

 

It's obvious isn't it ? It does say that there is no guarantee of any port - the first cruise I ever went on - haven't been that many - had precisely this at St Peter Port.

 

What exactly do you expect Cunard to do ? Why do I suspect the answer to this is "give me the money back".

[Heisenberg18]

It's obvious isn't it ? It does say that there is no guarantee of any port - the first cruise I ever went on - haven't been that many - had precisely this at St Peter Port.

 

What exactly do you expect Cunard to do ? Why do I suspect the answer to this is "give me the money back".

 

You are correct, Para 43 of the 18 page T&C, which I will admit to not having read, quote:

 

"Cunard does not guarantee that the ship will call at every port on the itinerary or follow every part of the advertised route or schedule or that every part of the Package will be provided." "If Cunard is unable to provide a significant proportion of the Package, it will make suitable alternative arrangements, at no extra cost to the Passenger, for the continuation of the Package."

 

Strange that you should label me as 'compensation seeking', I'm not asking for anything other than honesty from the outset.

[themanwithahat]

What is 'dishonest' about Cunard's behaviour ? Putting that in their T&Cs (I believe the same thing is in everyone else's) is hardly a surprise.

 

Even before I'd been on a Cruise I'd been on enough cross channel ferries to know there is no guarantee of them running. North Sea in December, yeah, sure, it's going to be a millpond.

 

Cunard couldn't get into Amsterdam - others have explained why, which tallies with what my daughter (studying Travel and Tourism) says. There appears to be no real alternative (what smaller ships do is largely irrelevant). I do not see what else they could do other than sail and hope the weather would improve. It sometimes does. Even if they had known at sailaway that the chances of getting into Amsterdam was close to zero it is incredibly naive to believe that they or anyone else would just go "oh, well, you don't have to go if you don't want".

 

Complaints seem to fall into two categories ; generic "this is not right" and complaints which are best misleading and at worst dishonest. Neither show much of a grasp of reality.

[Heisenberg18]

What is 'dishonest' about Cunard's behaviour ? Putting that in their T&Cs (I believe the same thing is in everyone else's) is hardly a surprise.

 

Even before I'd been on a Cruise I'd been on enough cross channel ferries to know there is no guarantee of them running. North Sea in December, yeah, sure, it's going to be a millpond.

 

Cunard couldn't get into Amsterdam - others have explained why, which tallies with what my daughter (studying Travel and Tourism) says. There appears to be no real alternative (what smaller ships do is largely irrelevant). I do not see what else they could do other than sail and hope the weather would improve. It sometimes does. Even if they had known at sailaway that the chances of getting into Amsterdam was close to zero it is incredibly naive to believe that they or anyone else would just go "oh, well, you don't have to go if you don't want".

 

Complaints seem to fall into two categories ; generic "this is not right" and complaints which are best misleading and at worst dishonest. Neither show much of a grasp of reality.

 

I can't disagree with you, we actually wanted to visit Amsterdam and were naive to chose this method of transport. The risks of taking a large ship into a 20 km canal in December didn't occur to me - will it occur to the 2100 passengers next year?

 

Have a peaceful Christmas.

[balf]

and the chances of this turning into a slanging match from some irate passengers are?

 

Quite high I would imagine. Tough, but if doesn't want the c..p he should get a job on an oil tanker.

 

David.

[sogne]

Quite high I would imagine. Tough, but if doesn't want the c..p he should get a job on an oil tanker.

 

David.

 

he would be on a hiding to nothing since there are always those guests who are convinced they are better captains

 

 

moral of story don't book these cruises or better still Cunard and others don't schedule them in December although summer is no guarantee of better weather

[DreamflightPat]

Don't you think that if the ship is in bad weather that he has other things to think about making sure that the ship is safe and also checking weather reports and conditions of ports. I was an air cabin crew for 39 years and I can remember having to deal with passengers when we had diversions etc. End of story is, safety is always first.

[English Voyager]

In December last year the Queen Elizabeth was unable to dock at Amsterdam, and we were diverted to Rotterdam.

 

The passengers that had booked ship excursions in Amsterdam were offered the choice of either cancelling or travelling by train to Amsterdam.

 

On this recent cruise was Rotterdam also inaccessible to cruise ships?

[Pennbank]

From what I know, the whole situation has been badly mis managed by Cunard and the Officers of QE.

No real apology was issued by the Captain until 4pm on Monday, when he mentioned the offer of $75 obc (£49) .The noon broadcast was not even given by the Captain on that day. No Captains Cocktail parties had been held through out the cruise, No offer of a courtesy beverage was offered. The strong smell of fuel on Deck 2 forward was lingering for the cruise. (Was this work cleaning the fuel tanks for 1st January ? ) Many 1st time Cunarders on board will now never use the line again, Ok perhaps some they may not want back.

Some people like sea days others do not.

For some missing a port when on a cruise is no big deal, however not getting into any Port whilst on a cruise and just bobbing along the Channel is different. For all the rose tinted Cunarders , where Cunard can do nothing wrong, wake up! I believe they mucked up this cruise.:eek:

Edited December 23, 2014 by Pennbank

[redfrock]

You are quite right. Cunard did not handle this well. Communication and explanation about why no alternative port was suitable would have helped. Despite the man in the hat's rude accusation of lies, I wrote about what I experienced and unless he was following me into the lifts, dining tables and ladies' toilets, he can't possibly claim that his experience was the only truth. Likewise, he cannot know why people left early.

 

As it happens, I was very polite to the receptionist and was only trying to suggest that they try to put more options on for people who didn't care for football, bingo and quizzes. How fortunate that the man in the hat was not served by the the uninterested girl who spoke to me.

 

Martin Bell's lectures were a delight - what a pity that the daily programme showed that on day three he was repeating the lecture from the day before (he wasn't). Some of us missed it, thinking we'd already heard it.

 

In my experience, most people go on holiday to have a good time and don't want to feel aggrieved and unhappy. If there isn't sufficient explanation, people hit back at the company they only way they can. Waiters at our table told me that some guests cancelled gratuities. That is an awful thing to do, as it was definitely not the fault of the waiters, stewards etc., yet people act out of sheer frustration. More communication can only have helped. The explanations about ports in France and the Channel Islands on this thread have helped my understanding of why there wasn't a suitable port - why didn't Cunard take just a little bit of time to explain this?

 

We all know things go wrong from time to time, but good communication and prompt goodwill gestures help soften disappointment. The Captain's decision is unquestionable - safety must always come first, but good PR is also an important factor in helping clients understand why they cannot have the experience they paid for when change is unavoidable.

[Pennbank]

Also made the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/christmas/christmas-news/11309699/Mutiny-as-Christmas-cruise-ship-circles-the-Channel.html

[sogne]

In December last year the Queen Elizabeth was unable to dock at Amsterdam, and we were diverted to Rotterdam.

 

The passengers that had booked ship excursions in Amsterdam were offered the choice of either cancelling or travelling by train to Amsterdam.

 

On this recent cruise was Rotterdam also inaccessible to cruise ships?

 

no room apparently

 

we were on that QE cruise last year

[Austcruiser84]

Also made the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/christmas/christmas-news/11309699/Mutiny-as-Christmas-cruise-ship-circles-the-Channel.html

 

Sensationalist drivel as usual. My goodness people really need to work out priorities!

 

So the ship didn't get to dock in Amsterdam. There are worse things in the world.

 

Obviously I wasn't on board, but I have found Cunard to be pretty good at providing information in the past.

 

When we couldn't dock at Rhodes on my June/July cruise, the Captain informed us over the speakers that she would try a second time but that she couldn't promise we would get in. After the second attempt failed we were informed that alternative arrangements were being considered and that we would be informed within a short while. Within 30 minutes we were told we were going to visit Marmaris in Turkey (about 45 minutes sailing) and that a shore excursion had been arranged.

 

Perhaps it comes down to the PR skills of the Captain? I feel sorry for the Purser's Desk clerks as they have no power whatsoever. It's a shame that some passengers (although the Telegraph made out that it was the Bounty revisited) took it upon themselves to abuse the ordinary crew - its a bit like swearing and carrying on at checkout operators about the prices set by supermarkets!

 

Interestingly, the point was made about people paying 400 GBP for their holiday - what a bargain for 4 days! Maybe that's part of the problem, the riff raft invaded the ship and brought their classlessness with them.

[themanwithahat]

You are quite right. Cunard did not handle this well. Communication and explanation about why no alternative port was suitable would have helped. Despite the man in the hat's rude accusation of lies, I wrote about what I experienced and unless he was following me into the lifts, dining tables and ladies' toilets, he can't possibly claim that his experience was the only truth. Likewise, he cannot know why people left early.

 

You can't either - and the statement that "no effort was made" is not a "rude accusation of lies" - it's a lie and a very obvious one to anyone on the cruise.

 

You make the assumption that everyone feels like you. I met virtually *no one* who felt like you seem to think was common. Even those involved in the supposed 'mutiny' were not that upset.

 

Your attitude to the onboard Christmas Fair is typical. Yes, it was not brilliant. Tell me, if you tried to do a "Christmas Fair" replacement on board, what would you have done ? Or do you think they shouldn't have bothered trying to do a Christmas Fair (in which case you'd whine about them not trying)

 

Martin Bell's lectures were a delight - what a pity that the daily programme showed that on day three he was repeating the lecture from the day before (he wasn't). Some of us missed it, thinking we'd already heard it.

 

So, if this is correct, then the claim that no effort was made is not true, is it ? The effort was 'made' to get Mr Bell to use what he called his 'back up lecture' and also his poetry reading sessions at 5:00pm

[themanwithahat]

 

Perhaps it comes down to the PR skills of the Captain? I feel sorry for the Purser's Desk clerks as they have no power whatsoever. It's a shame that some passengers (although the Telegraph made out that it was the Bounty revisited) took it upon themselves to abuse the ordinary crew - its a bit like swearing and carrying on at checkout operators about the prices set by supermarkets!

 

It was fairly obvious what was happening I thought. Some people just like to complain, and will find anything to complain about. Having half a brain, I presumed there was fairly heavy communication between the crew and Cunard central, and the Captain decided not to make update announcements every five minutes.

 

Interestingly, the point was made about people paying 400 GBP for their holiday - what a bargain for 4 days! Maybe that's part of the problem, the riff raft invaded the ship and brought their classlessness with them.

 

I'm one of the GBP400 newbies (actually slightly less than that). I agree it's a bargain. If there was a lot of riff-raff there wasn't much sign of it - not much drunken behaviour or rowdy behaviour. If anything it was rather quiet.

 

What really annoys me is the comical exaggeration. There was no mutiny. There was a strong smell of diesel - it was there for a couple of hours, tops - we had outside cabins on Deck 1 so walked pass the 'smell point' on a regular basis both crossing between them and accessing Deck 2.

 

Everyone was not complaining. The compo chasers and whingers seem to think everyone was, but I only met two or three people who were really unhappy (and one of those it was about the cruise generally *not* Amsterdam being cancelled - the stuff about no Captain's party may have some credibility ? As its my first Cunard cruise I have no other Cunard cruise to compare it to). I thought the food declined in standard slightly, which may be down to non-reprovisioning of course.

 

Most people I spoke to understood at some level what some of the posters here who know about these things have written. Obviously the ongoing Amsterdam/other port issue was a popular topic of conversation (with staff as well).

 

One of the complaints in the Mail comments is actually us - we were sat down during the quiz. There was a family behind us similarly sat. None of us complained - we got there late for a popular quiz activity and there were a reasonable number of seats for the space it was in.

 

I note, as an aside, that apparently some flights into Schipol were cancelled as well.

[Austcruiser84]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/cunard-passengers-angry-over-shambolic-christmas-cruise/story-e6frfq80-1227165959416

 

Well, the story has finally reached the tabloids in Australia. Naturally, they didn't disappoint with their ridiculous rehashing of the tripe in the Daily Mail (who on earth would consider this a credible source?).

 

Better (worse) still, they used a picture of the QM2 at the head of the article!

[Salacia]

Got off it this morning. It's absolute c**p basically. There were a lot of people wanting to know what was going on, well maybe 100 or so. No aggro. Most people we spoke to were disappointed but pragmatic about it. We saw it as a double edged sword ; we did want to see the markets (there *are* Xmas markets in Amsterdam, though it isn't Bruges or Koln) but then we got more time on the boat.

 

Other fantasies ; there was a diesel spill, briefly, yesterday, near the theatre (or it smelt like that) but it was dealt with rapidly (it wasn't far from our cabins)

 

Entertainment ; they did the best they could. Martin Bell did an extra lecture and poetry reading. The Ents.Manager who is a serious amateur astronomer gave a lecture on the Solar System. The various bands/musicians did overtime I reckon. Usual quizzes and things were added. Spa reopened. They can't magically make other lecturers appear on the ship. Most of these people (and other staff) missed out on down time.

The boat didn't 'go round in circles' - it went pretty much all the way to Amsterdam, then back to Cherbourg area, then to Soton. There was the odd 'wiggle' but it was a slow cruise anyway.

 

Basically on the Amsterdam day they planned to shut everything down during the day more or less because they thought most people would be off the boat ; by about 10:00 (I think) there was a revised entertainment for the day more appropriate to a sea day.

 

Basically ; the whiners here and in the Mail are not representative ; they are probably after money. Mrs Hat. spent a fair chunk of the return trip home reading out and commenting on some of the abject nonsense in the comments.

 

If I understand correctly, voyages such as this should have no expectation of actually reaching the port specified in the itinerary due to well-documented weather conditions. I accept that.

 

What I'm having a problem understanding is why Cunard didn't have a Plan B in place. There could have been on board activities prepared in advance. You wrote "Entertainment ; they did the best they could" Did they really?

 

Yes, passengers should be prepared to accept certain conditions, but should not cruise ships be prepared to provide services that passengers experience on sea days?

 

-S.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Salacia

[Salacia]

Sensationalist drivel as usual. My goodness people really need to work out priorities!

 

So the ship didn't get to dock in Amsterdam. There are worse things in the world.

 

Obviously I wasn't on board, but I have found Cunard to be pretty good at providing information in the past. When we couldn't dock at Rhodes on my June/July cruise, the Captain informed us over the speakers that she would try a second time but that she couldn't promise we would get in. After the second attempt failed we were informed that alternative arrangements were being considered and that we would be informed within a short while. Within 30 minutes we were told we were going to visit Marmaris in Turkey (about 45 minutes sailing) and that a shore excursion had been arranged.

 

Perhaps it comes down to the PR skills of the Captain? I feel sorry for the Purser's Desk clerks as they have no power whatsoever. It's a shame that some passengers (although the Telegraph made out that it was the Bounty revisited) took it upon themselves to abuse the ordinary crew - its a bit like swearing and carrying on at checkout operators about the prices set by supermarkets!

 

Interestingly, the point was made about people paying 400 GBP for their holiday - what a bargain for 4 days! Maybe that's part of the problem, the riff raft invaded the ship and brought their classlessness with them.

 

Austcruiser, I wasn't on board either. So neither you nor I know what it was like on board for this particular cruise. Our past experiences are interesting, but do not relate to the cruise in question.

 

Various comments made by previous posters regarding passengers being riff raff, liars and compensations seekers are nasty and inappropriate, in my opinion. Frankly, I have to wonder where such vitriol comes from - it does nothing to enhance the reputation of Cunard.

 

Salacia

I am not Cunard, but I am a frequent passenger.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Salacia

[brigittetom]

I don't know.......they had bingo, trivia, speakers, the shops were open, I'm sure the afternoon tea was served, and I'm guessing all the food venues were open.

 

Sounds like the typical sea days on any trip. :confused:

[Salacia]

I don't know.......they had bingo, trivia, speakers, the shops were open, I'm sure the afternoon tea was served, and I'm guessing all the food venues were open.

 

Sounds like the typical sea days on any trip. :confused:

 

..and the casino?

 

And on the last sea day, they docked in the evening rather than the next morning as scheduled.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Salacia