Cunard red..

[melb1988]

Hi all!

 

So I've just been preoccuping myself by googling through the history of Cunard and just checking out many photos past and present of Cunard ships and it's got me wondering, is the current colour of the Cunard funnels correct? Of coarse there is many factors that can change the appearance of the colour of a ships funnels eg: weathering of the paint, age of the paint, lighting, camera quality etc etc but based on what I've seen in some photos tonight, the QM2's funnel especially looks very red to me and I'm under the impression that the Cunard red is more of an orange? Like The original QM stacks.. But then you do see a lot of paintings of the Mauretania and early Cunard ships with a signal red colour painted on the funnels. So what is the right Cunard red? Or has it changed over the years?

I can't even seem to remember what colour the funnel looked up close when I was onboard!?

 

This ones for all the Cunard historians here :)

[BlueRiband]

Cunard's current brand book can be found here, with the actual Pantone colors on page 7.

 

You are right in that it's on orange-red but I have no idea what they called the paint color. The old Pennsylvania Railroad had a "Mars Red" that was specified in their keystone logo design so Cunard probably had its own color mix. Steam ship lines often identified themselves by their funnel markings. Cunard had no symbol, just the orange-red color. There's probably no way of knowing how today's "Cunard Red" differs unless one researched the archived contract specifications of the old QM or QE. (QE2's first funnel was initially white.)

Edited December 23, 2014 by BlueRiband

[pepperrn]

Hi all! So I've just been preoccuping myself by googling through the history of Cunard and just checking out many photos past and present of Cunard ships and it's got me wondering, is the current colour of the Cunard funnels correct? Of coarse there is many factors that can change the appearance of the colour of a ships funnels eg: weathering of the paint, age of the paint, lighting, camera quality etc etc but based on what I've seen in some photos tonight, the QM2's funnel especially looks very red to me and I'm under the impression that the Cunard red is more of an orange? Like The original QM stacks.. But then you do see a lot of paintings of the Mauretania and early Cunard ships with a signal red colour painted on the funnels. So what is the right Cunard red? Or has it changed over the years? I can't even seem to remember what colour the funnel looked up close when I was onboard!? This ones for all the Cunard historians here :)

Hi melb1988,

 

This photo:

was taken in May '14.

 

I haven't altered the colours in any way (colour balance or hue etc), so allowing for differing cameras and all computer monitor etc slightly altering the shade, this looks correct to me, ie orange.

 

There is a famous photo of QM2 "meeting" QM for the first time, taken several years ago in Long Beach. The funnel colour on QM2 (in the distance) looks very red in that photo (almost "French Line" red) compared with the orange on the three funnels of QM in the foreground.

However, having stood next to the funnels on QM I can tell you that they fade badly in the southern Californian sunshine (and quickly even after re-painting).

 

Also, just to confuse matters, many of the publicity photos Cunard and others use have been taken over the last ten years, and there was a short period, so I read somewhere, when they did indeed use too "red" a shade, almost scarlet. So if you've seen some of these old photos it could well look "wrong" (and could also help further explain the colour difference in the photo mentioned above, if true).

 

In May '14 I saw all three ships together in good light, I am confident that then at least, they were all the same, and the correct shade of Cunard Orange. I've seen QM2 three times since then (June, September, November) and nothing seems to have changed that I could see. On January 10th I will look carefully at QE's funnel colour in Southampton (and take photos) and will report back if I see anything too "red" :) .

 

All best wishes :) ,

Edited December 23, 2014 by pepperrn

[balf]

This looks just too red saturated to me. Looks newly painted.

 

Aren't red cars said to fade to pink?

 

David.

[japyke]

Cunard's current brand book can be found here, with the actual Pantone colors on page 7.

 

You are right in that it's on orange-red but I have no idea what they called the paint color. The old Pennsylvania Railroad had a "Mars Red" that was specified in their keystone logo design so Cunard probably had its own color mix. Steam ship lines often identified themselves by their funnel markings. Cunard had no symbol, just the orange-red color. There's probably no way of knowing how today's "Cunard Red" differs unless one researched the archived contract specifications of the old QM or QE. (QE2's first funnel was initially white.)

 

BlueRiband, thanks for the brandbook. something more to read...

[melb1988]

I also did read somewhere that when first launched the QM2's funnel was 'too red' and it had to be changed!

I wonder if this is correct?

 

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I prefer the more orange tone for a Cunard funnel! Although seeing many old prints/paintings of their old liners, was the original 'Cunard red' more red than orange?

 

This could be just as confusing as the never ending debate over 'white star buff', the colour used for Titanics funnels :o

[melb1988]

Cunard's current brand book can be found here, with the actual Pantone colors on page 7.

 

You are right in that it's on orange-red but I have no idea what they called the paint color. The old Pennsylvania Railroad had a "Mars Red" that was specified in their keystone logo design so Cunard probably had its own color mix. Steam ship lines often identified themselves by their funnel markings. Cunard had no symbol, just the orange-red color. There's probably no way of knowing how today's "Cunard Red" differs unless one researched the archived contract specifications of the old QM or QE. (QE2's first funnel was initially white.)

 

What a great book! Can't wait to read through it all!

 

But just quickly went to page 7, im wondering if that red Is the red used in the logo, the colour that 'Cunard' is written in rather than the colour of the actual funnel as it does seem 'too red' although could just be how it looks on my phone?

[BlueRiband]

Unless one were to calibrate their computer screen to a color standard it's impossible to say. (Who has ever done that?) Cunard's brand brochure is for print and internet media, not for paint pigments. Shipyards and drydocks probably a standard programmed pigment mix for each area of the ship. (One wouldn't think there would be a specific "shade of white" but a standard white mix is why the touch-ups on the superstructure don't have patches of yellow-white, gray-white, etc.)

[melb1988]

Unless one were to calibrate their computer screen to a color standard it's impossible to say. (Who has ever done that?) Cunard's brand brochure is for print and internet media, not for paint pigments. Shipyards and drydocks probably a standard programmed pigment mix for each area of the ship. (One wouldn't think there would be a specific "shade of white" but a standard white mix is why the touch-ups on the superstructure don't have patches of yellow-white, gray-white, etc.)

 

Yes I agree that the ship yards would have the exact formulas for the colour mixes used onboard!

[Colin_Cameron]

What a great book!

 

But full of inconsistencies.

 

"The ship names should never be divided due to wrapping." Yet in the very next paragraph we find "Queen" at the end of one line and "Victoria" at the start of the next.

 

'" Single/Double Speech Marks'" do not use. Then, 'The Only Way to Cross'

 

And then there's the ongoing confusion/misunderstanding over apostrophes. You could make a case for, "Queens Room" and "Queens Grill" (instead of Queen's Room and Queens' Grill) in the deliberate absence of all apostrophes, yet we find "Churchill's Cigar Lounge", "Admiral's Lounge" and "Sir Samuel's".

 

You could argue that I'm being pedantic, but isn't that the whole point of this booklet?:D

Edited December 24, 2014 by Colin_Cameron

[Austcruiser84]

Well, the QE2 originally sailed sporting a white funnel rather than the traditional orange-red funnels of previous Cunarders. Not sure when it was changed.

[Austcruiser84]

Well, the QE2 originally sailed sporting a white funnel rather than the traditional orange-red funnels of previous Cunarders. Not sure when it was changed.

 

A quick online search answered my own question! It was changed back following it's refit after the Falklands War (when the larger funnel replaced the original thin funnel).

 

The refitted funnel certainly looked better!

[Mid-Atlantic Ridge]

But full of inconsistencies.

 

"The ship names should never be divided due to wrapping." Yet in the very next paragraph we find "Queen" at the end of one line and "Victoria" at the start of the next.

 

'" Single/Double Speech Marks'" do not use. Then, 'The Only Way to Cross'

 

And then there's the ongoing confusion/misunderstanding over apostrophes. You could make a case for, "Queens Room" and "Queens Grill" (instead of Queen's Room and Queens' Grill) in the deliberate absence of all apostrophes, yet we find "Churchill's Cigar Lounge", "Admiral's Lounge" and "Sir Samuel's".

 

You could argue that I'm being pedantic, but isn't that the whole point of this booklet?:D

 

Additional pedantry; on page 34 Queen Elizabeth ll (monarch) is referred to as "HRH" which is incorrect.

 

And the Cunard social media people and Marketing Director are off message according to the booklet as they refer to "passengers" in a recent apology.

 

M-AR

[Colin_Cameron]

A quick online search answered my own question! It was changed back following it's refit after the Falklands War (when the larger funnel replaced the original thin funnel).

 

The refitted funnel certainly looked better!

 

I can't find my "Official History" just now with the dates but I'm sure the thin funnel was painted red (and the hull light grey:eek:) after the Falklands in '82 and converted to the fat funnel with the new engines in the winter of '86/87.

 

Regards, Colin.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Colin_Cameron

[melb1988]

The original qe2 thin funnel was Cunard red at some stage, I've seen photos. How bizar it must have felt (if you were a Cunard fan) to learn of Cunard launching a flagship that has a white funnel! It would have made me angry personally :o

[Austcruiser84]

The original qe2 thin funnel was Cunard red at some stage, I've seen photos. How bizar it must have felt (if you were a Cunard fan) to learn of Cunard launching a flagship that has a white funnel! It would have made me angry personally :o

 

I dislike how she looked that way. I wonder why they did it? To make her look more modern?

[Bill B]

With paint, red is the most susceptible colour to fading. So, only a freshly-painted funnel would show as the 'true' Cunard red... whatever that is.

[Calliope]

A quick online search answered my own question! It was changed back following it's refit after the Falklands War (when the larger funnel replaced the original thin funnel).

 

The refitted funnel certainly looked better!

 

Yes, the QE2's white stack was painted Cunard red and given the black stripes after the ship returned from the Falklands War. The fat funnel was added due to necessity after her conversion to diesel electric several years later.

 

To be a purist Cunard red 's original recipe was an ochre and buttermilk mixture that resisted blistering on the hot funnel.

[Adammara]

Another factor is that originally a lead based paint was probably used, IMO modern paints don't have the depth of colour that lead based had.

[QM1]

Paint, print and screen use different color identifier systems. Paint systems are RAL and others (Boeing for example uses its own code system named BAC), print is generally cmyk (and mostly Pantone for added special color - but beware there are several Pantone Palettes). Its almost impossible to match a certain paint code in print for 100%. I am dealing with such a problem right now again on a project for a major airline.

 

Photos are not much of a help as they are mostly taken in non-neutral lighting. Info graphics however are.

 

As for the original Cunard red, back then there was no color system, so it would have varied and likely was more of a brick red rather than the clean scarlet paint used today.

 

I always wondered if Samuel Cunard did choose red as it was the uniform color of most of the British Army back then!

 

As others pointed out, red color fades quicker than almost any other paint so if you would have had the whole Cunard Fleet together in lets say 1910 you surely would have looked at a variety of red/orange tones.

 

 

But full of inconsistencies.

 

"The ship names should never be divided due to wrapping." Yet in the very next paragraph we find "Queen" at the end of one line and "Victoria" at the start of the next.

 

'" Single/Double Speech Marks'" do not use. Then, 'The Only Way to Cross'

 

And then there's the ongoing confusion/misunderstanding over apostrophes. You could make a case for, "Queens Room" and "Queens Grill" (instead of Queen's Room and Queens' Grill) in the deliberate absence of all apostrophes, yet we find "Churchill's Cigar Lounge", "Admiral's Lounge" and "Sir Samuel's".

 

You could argue that I'm being pedantic, but isn't that the whole point of this booklet?:D

 

You´re not pedantic, you´re correct. If any document should contain zero mistakes, then its a brand CI book!

[Austcruiser84]

I always wondered if Samuel Cunard did choose red as it was the uniform color of most of the British Army back then!

 

As others pointed out, red color fades quicker than almost any other paint so if you would have had the whole Cunard Fleet together in lets say 1910 you surely would have looked at a variety of red/orange tones.

 

Red stands out better in fog and bad weather. I would think that is why Cunard chose it. It also looks good against the white superstructure and the near-black hull.

[pepperrn]

"The colors sported by those funnels would soon become a story in and of themselves, as one charmingly enduring detail to come out of Napier's work on his engines-the creation of the what would become the company's most widely-recognised trademark, the Cunard-red funnel. It was designated that they be painted red for the lower four fifths of their height, the uppermost section being blacked out as soot topping. Because of the heat created as the smoke and gases formed in the boiler passed up a ship's funnel, it was necessary to provide some form of corrosion protection for the relatively thin metal. Ordinary paints were ineffective, as the searing heat would soon cause them to blister and peel off. After some experimentation, Napier came up with a mixture of buttermilk and fresh ochre that when applied to a funnel actually took advantage of the heat to literally "cook" itself onto the metal, effectively sealing and protecting it. The process also caused the the mixture to turn that unique shade of red-orange that would grace the funnels of Cunard ships... Of course, as paint chemistries developed, the buttermilk-and-ochre mixture would give way to more sophisticated compounds, but the shade, as unique as indescribable, would remain the same."

 

The Age of Cunard, A Transatlantic History 1839-2003. Daniel Allen Butler (2003).

Edited December 31, 2014 by pepperrn

[melb1988]

"The colors sported by those funnels would soon become a story in and of themselves, as one charmingly enduring detail to come out of Napier's work on his engines-the creation of the what would become the company's most widely-recognised trademark, the Cunard-red funnel. It was designated that they be painted red for the lower four fifths of their height, the uppermost section being blacked out as soot topping. Because of the heat created as the smoke and gases formed in the boiler passed up a ship's funnel, it was necessary to provide some form of corrosion protection for the relatively thin metal. Ordinary paints were ineffective, as the searing heat would soon cause them to blister and peel off. After some experimentation, Napier came up with a mixture of buttermilk and fresh ochre that when applied to a funnel actually took advantage of the heat to literally "cook" itself onto the metal, effectively sealing and protecting it. The process also caused the the mixture to turn that unique shade of red-orange that would grace the funnels of Cunard ships... Of course, as paint chemistries developed, the buttermilk-and-ochre mixture would give way to more sophisticated compounds, but the shade, as unique as indescribable, would remain the same."

 

The Age of Cunard, A Transatlantic History 1839-2003. Daniel Allen Butler (2003).

 

 

Now this is very interesting indeed!!!

So we now have the reason for the Orange tone!

 

Cheers :)

[Salacia]

I can't imagine how that colour could be duplicated today, given the amount of lead necessary to get that red- orange hue.

http://www.lbreport.com/news/feb02/qmsmoke.htm

[Calliope]

To be a purist Cunard red 's original recipe was an ochre and buttermilk mixture that resisted blistering on the hot funnel.

 

That's what I said! ;)