Making Use of Cruiseships to Assist.......

[sail7seas]

Kryos....

 

Lots of what you write makes sense but doesn't address a myriad of other problems such as liability for damage to the ship; liability if one of these people staying aboard are injured.....who would pay? How long would they commit to 'loaning' the ship? What if that date arrives and these displaced people still have no place to go to? Etc Etc Etc

[elmorejj]

I talked to my great niece who is serving aboard the USS Bataan. They were returning from war games in Panama and had stopped in Texas to drop off a marine unit. They have been told to stand by, to render aid, supplies and medical assistance to the hurricane survivors. She has been told that this will delay their return to Norfolk by 3 weeks.

 

I agree with Peaches, our Supreme Commander has sent more NG troops to this war than any other conflict. Due to the draw down in troops over the last several years, we are now in a serious pinch for defense. Young men/women are not joining the services like they have in the past. Are we going to end up with a draft again.?

 

 

God Bless all of our service people. :cool:

[Oceanwench]

Putting 2,000 or 3,000 people on a cruise ship with little or nothing to do ... does that make sense? They'd be confined in a small space for months.

Who is going to do the laundry, clean the dishes, cook the food, etc. etc.?

If someone thinks the people will do it for themselves -- well, you need someone to organize all of this, or it would be chaos.

And don't forget how easily a ship's plumbing clogs ...

 

And what if another hurricane threatens? We haven't even reached the statistical peak of the hurricane season! You'd have a boatload of people to get out of harm's way.

 

And it's only a drop in the bucket, as far as the vast numbers of people who need shelter. As someone said before, you'd have to take over lots of cruise ships to accommodate the thousands who are homeless.

 

Makes more sense to bus people to neighboring states with large facilities such as the Astrodome ... and let the Red Cross and other agencies handle the organization and distribution of food/supplies.

People in such land-based shelters will find it easier to be in contact with insurance agents, FEMA, family members.

 

If the burden is shared by as many states as feasible, then it would work out better.

[tomc]

Over at C@, they're tossing around about other nations coming to our aid (which I think they are, talk shows to the contrary notwithstanding). I added this to the mix:

 

"I think that those of use who can afford $$$ to cruise and who regularly talk about our verandah cabins and our bar bills and our shorex and have countdown clocks and/or past cruises in our signatures can *easily* afford to send the Disaster Relief group of our choice a significant amount of money (three figures) to aid our own people. Why wait for other nations?"

[SForman]

tomc,

 

Some of us have already done it.

[sail7seas]

I absolutely agree with you, Tom. My Charitable Agency of choice is Salvation Army. They will, most assuredly, be getting a sizeable contribution from this household.

 

If we can afford to cruise, then we darn well can afford to assist people who are in such dire need.

[SForman]

CNN reported that the government asked Carnival about using cruise ships. Carnival will be doing a study to see if it's feasible.

[csg99]

Our NBC affiliate announced today that Iowa is sending 65 National Guardsmen to the disaster zone. Iowa has such a large number of Guardsmen deployed in the middle east that they are stretched thin. I guess the ONLY good thing about this drought we've had this summer is that we probably won't need the Guardsmen right now for upper Mississippi River flooding as they've been needed in past years--they've had lots of experience with rescuing people and filling sandbags around here.

 

my prayers are with all of those in harm's way.

[tomc]

I think the cruise ships would make great ferries to get people to "permanent" shelters. You could probably fit a large number of people on them for an overnight to, say, Texas or Florida (assuming Florida has availabilities), or two nights to a further feasible destination. The need right now is to get huge numbers of people out of the disaster area and a ship could do just that.

 

I think.

[bluehorizonlover123]

Just wondering how a big ship would be able to get enough food for this humanitariun effort when the port is closed due to high waters.

[bruceh4]

Last year here in my area of Florida after hurricane Charley struck FEMA brought in thousands of mobile homes to use a temporary housing. At the present time there is a staging area just south of me off the interstate with many of these mobile homes. I would venture to guess that as soon as the search and rescue operations are done and it is safe many of these mobile homes will be moving to the Misss. and Lousiana area to setup housing. Keeping the people in the home area makes more sense because they need to get back to work cleaning up and rebuilding. These people need jobs and there will be plenty after search and rescue is done. I just hope the media lets the experts decided what is best. The media needs to report not try to make policy. I worked as a voulnteer in Port Charlote and believe me the Salvation Army, Red Cross, FEMA, National Guard, fire and police from outside the area and many other organizations did a magnificant job. But it takes time to get the ball rolling after a disaster. This one is of biblical proportion. But watch in the coming days and you will see an outpouring of help and aid form alll over. But first search and rescue is priority number one.

[eroller]

CNN reported that the government asked Carnival about using cruise ships. Carnival will be doing a study to see if it's feasible.

 

 

Carnival is currently "determining the feasibility" according to the article, which translated means they are figuring out how much it will cost the US government. I'm quite certain if Carnival does provide a ship, that it will be compensated in one way or another, either now or in the future. Last I checked Carnival was not in the charity business, but in the business to make money which they do quite well. No doubt the Carnival accountants are quite busy right now.

 

Get ready for some Carnival ships to be transferred to US Registry but staffed with foreign crews. Watch out NCL America!

 

Ernie

[JimVrhovac]

I spent many years as an advisor to the National Guards of several states.

 

The National Gurads of all states are funded by federal dollars and in a national disaster the Feds can call them up for duty anywhere in the USA.

 

You forget the many times when a disaster hits a state they draw troops from an unaffected area of that state so the ones from the disaster area can care for their families.

 

Even if they could take and put 100,000 national troops in that area tonight there is nothing for them to do. What is needed is selective types of troops and the types and quantities need to be determined, then these men are given a 24-36 hour activation natice, they have to be processed and then transported to the needed area...

 

All this takes time. God can do things overnight but it takes the rest of us humans a little longer and sometimes we make mistakes.

 

Peaches try to keep this a nonpolitical thread...... You opinions show between the lines

 

Jim

Major, FA/INF Retired

[kryos]

Putting 2,000 or 3,000 people on a cruise ship with little or nothing to do ... does that make sense? They'd be confined in a small space for months.

Who is going to do the laundry, clean the dishes, cook the food, etc. etc.?

If someone thinks the people will do it for themselves -- well, you need someone to organize all of this, or it would be chaos.

And don't forget how easily a ship's plumbing clogs ...

That's why I said ... many of them could be given jobs (via federal monies) ... they would cook, do the laundry, clean the public areas, watch the children, etc. They wouldn't be sitting on a ship with nothing to do. Some would work onboard, others would work ashore. Makeshift schools would be set up (most likely onshore) so that the children's education would not be interrupted anymore than necessary. Everything would be "organized" via the National Guard or special personnel sent in from a humanitarian agency (such as the Red Cross). These people would not be just sitting onboard a cruise ship with nothing to do. They would have just as much to do if they sat in a refugee center, admist stagnating water and unsafe conditions.

 

As for how long the ship would be committed, that's hard to say. But I have a feeling it wouldn't be more than a few months ... just until the worst of the devastation in their home areas could be cleared out (power and water service restored), unsafe conditions eliminated, etc. Believe me, once these people could get back to their hometowns, they would want to go back in order to get the rebuilding started. The President has promised massive aid to them for that purpose and I am sure they will want to get back to re-establishing their homes and family ties.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bruceh4]

I spent many years as an advisor to the National Guards of several states.

 

The National Gurads of all states are funded by federal dollars and in a national disaster the Feds can call them up for duty anywhere in the USA.

 

You forget the many times when a disaster hits a state they draw troops from an unaffected area of that state so the ones from the disaster area can care for their families.

 

Even if they could take and put 100,000 national troops in that area tonight there is nothing for them to do. What is needed is selective types of troops and the types and quantities need to be determined, then these men are given a 24-36 hour activation natice, they have to be processed and then transported to the needed area...

 

All this takes time. God can do things overnight but it takes the rest of us humans a little longer and sometimes we make mistakes.

 

Peaches try to keep this a nonpolitical thread...... You opinions show between the lines

 

Jim

Major, FA/INF Retired

Thanks Jim, well said

[kryos]

Carnival is currently "determining the feasibility" according to the article, which translated means they are figuring out how much it will cost the US government. I'm quite certain if Carnival does provide a ship, that it will be compensated in one way or another, either now or in the future. Last I checked Carnival was not in the charity business, but in the business to make money which they do quite well. No doubt the Carnival accountants are quite busy right now.

 

Get ready for some Carnival ships to be transferred to US Registry but staffed with foreign crews. Watch out NCL America!

 

Of course, Carnival is not in the charity business, but I would assume a deal would be worked out that would not rake the U.S. government over the coals either. And, if they work a deal that provides safe shelter for all these people, and that means Carnival gets US Registry with special dispensations, well ... maybe that will encourage other cruiselines to step up to the plate and offer to do something for all these people who have suffered such a terrible tragedy. And, too ... think about it ... U.S. Registry means no pesky Jones Act requirements ... which I am sure in many cases will lower the cruiselines' operating costs.

 

Also, let's face it ... helping these folks out could be a major public relations boon to the cruiselines. I know that if Carnival were the only cruiseline to do this, I would be inclined to maybe at least try a Carnival sailing at some point in the future ... whereas I wouldn't even consider it now.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Kryos....

 

Lots of what you write makes sense but doesn't address a myriad of other problems such as liability for damage to the ship; liability if one of these people staying aboard are injured.....who would pay? How long would they commit to 'loaning' the ship? What if that date arrives and these displaced people still have no place to go to? Etc Etc Etc

I am sure the cruiselines would work closely with the U.S. government in determining how long their ships would be needed. And, think about it ... if five different cruiselines each loaned one ship for this effort, it may not mean the loss of an extraordinary amount of revenue for any one of them.

 

As far as liability for injuries to someone staying onboard, I don't have time to look up the particulars now, but there is a special "loophole" in the law that changes the threshold necessary to show liability in cases such as this. Those people would be provided with much needed shelter on an emergency basis by the cruiselines. Therefore, before someone can sue for an injury they suffer aboard the ship, they have to show that the cruiseline was highly negligent in causing their injury. The threshhold would be almost akin to having to prove the cruiseline deliberately *wanted* to cause them injury and took affirmative steps to do so. This is a very high threshhold to meet.

 

As for liability for damage to the ship ... it would be the same as it would be for paying passengers ... criminal charges, etc. Also, note that in the other post, I did suggest that all valuable artwork, etc. be removed prior to housing these people.

 

I know it's not an ideal solution ... but it may be the only one applicable for this unheard of tragedy our nation has suffered.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Iggipolka]

 

50% of the LA Natl Guard in Iraq? This is the perfect example of why sending NG troops, that are to protect and serve us here at home, overseas was a disaster waiting to happen from the beginning. I'm not a kid and have lived through a number of wars in my lifetime and this was never done before- for good reason.

 

This is what happens when the Active Duty Army is cut back and bases are closed. The number of people in the Reserves that have been deployed exceeds the number of people in the "Big Army", the Active Duty Army.

This is the first time that there are more civilian soliders in a combat zone than active duty miltary.

Believe me, the family members of people in the reserves are really feeling this one.

 

Ok..back to cruise ships being used for temporary housing. It was reported on CNN today that that idea is being seriously considered.

[lizzielady]

The ships could be used for transport to Galveston, Tampa, Miami, or wherever, where other temporary housing on land could be set up. They need not be used for housing. Transporting several thousand at a time could be accomplished more quickly than using buses at 50-55 at a time. The Port of New Orleans terminal is fairly close to the Superdome--I think? Just a thought--would need port pilots, etc, and no way to communicate with them to report for duty. What a sad plight. My heart aches.

[Grumpy1]

Keep in mind that there still has to be enough lifeboat capacity for everyone on board, so you're not going to transport that many more people than on a normal cruise.Given the fuel consumption of a cruise ship and speeds travelled, I think buses is a cheaper alternative if the goal is moving people from one place to another as opposed to housing.

 

It's possible too, that the discussions may be along the lines of Carnival providing personnel to run the operation if ships are found that could be used for housing... after all, who has more expertise in that area? Sure the Navy has experience running shipboard operations, but not near the expertise in handling civilian passengers that Carnival has.

 

As far as providing one of their ships, one could probably be freed up by juggling pax to other ships... I'd volunteer the Fascination for the mission... And the good will generated by showing that they want to be a good neighbor in time of need could well offset any short term financial loss.

[cactuslady]

Whatever provisions are made for temporary housing, they should be made with the realization that the National Weather Service has revised their climate prediction to expect at least 3 to 5 more major hurricanes and several less severe ones before the season is over. Ships, tent cities, whatever ought to be prepared to get out of the way and go to plan B fast.

[bepsf]

Using cruiseships as temporary long-term housing is a bad idea...

 

However, using them to transport refugees to Galveston, etc. is a rather good idea.

...tho I can see the future headlines:

"Big Campaign Donors Get Suites Aboard Cruiseship at Government Expense"

[debjo]

Didn't the last Summer Olympics use some cruise ships to house the athletes, media personnel, etc.? The idea of using cruise ships as temporary housing isn't necessarily a "new" one...or a "bad" one.

 

Too bad NCL's Norway has been towed off to the other side of the world...it could have been brought over here from Bremerhaven and used to house some of our southern citizens who are in need of shelter.

 

Just my two cents!

Debjo

[gizmo]

Here is a link to CCL's press release on the subject:

 

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=AP&Date=20050901&ID=5076710&Symbol=US:CCL

[RevNeal]

I wonder how many of the old ships laid up at Freeport could be powered up and used -- just once -- to take people from New Orleans to Galveston or some other port, where they could be transported out?