daily service charge

[russianmom]

I will gladly tell guest services as well as crew members why - The company gives me the option to pay how I wish. I am utilizing one of the provided options. I believe in the time honored way of tipping; guest to service provider. That way I have no qualms about the company delaying payments or keeping some of it. I am not doing anything underhanded, against the rules, and certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I'm selecting a choice amongst many and doing what I believe is best. It is probably also a fact that some people never discuss this topic, remove DSC, and pay nothing at all.

 

Until such time as I see proof that workers get to keep ALL of the DSC I consider all conversations where people "claim" to know one way or the other to just be opinions.

 

And for those who wish to berate me and be negative, I ask you, on your last cruise how much extra did you leave in tips? I always find it amusing to be scolded about tipping and then finding out those doing the scolding don't tip anywhere near the level we do.

 

So the workers who wash and clean your towels, sheets, dishes etc just get an" oh, well" since you don't "see or interact" with them? What about those that vacuum the ship or clean the public restrooms or refill the hand sanitizer? What about those that mop the floor in the buffet or by the pool so you don't slip and fall? How about those that help you in and or out of the tenders? All of these behind the scenes workers help make the cruise more enjoyable on multiple levels, even though don't see them directly

[triptolemus]

Do you have any incontrovertible proof behind this statement?

 

If someone offered you proof, would you care? Would you change your mind?

 

Doubtful.

 

So what's the point of asking for it? What's the point of your continued discussion on the topic? You're going to do what you're going to do... so get on with it already.

Edited February 25, 2015 by triptolemus

[LoveyHowell]

And how about all the other folks that serve you during your cruise?

 

Sounds to me like just another rationalization to do what you planned to do all along. :rolleyes:

 

The people that serve us directly get paid a cash tip directly. I'm not sure why that is so bad when even 5 years ago it was totally normal, expected, and traditional for generations. When I go to a restaurant I tip people that provide us service; wait staff and valets. I don't tip the dishwashers or the kitchen staff. They are not interacting with guests. It's not as if I plan to remove DSC so we can save a bit of money on our vacation. I'm going to give those that provide us services cash, then they can do with it how they please without any company interference. Maybe instead of being a bully in every thread you could engage in a discussion. You may have valuable insight to add or you may learn something new.

[KeithJenner]

Do you have any incontrovertible proof behind this statement?

 

 

You have quoted one part of a well reasoned post, which explained exactly why the poster came to that conclusion, so no evidence is necessary.

 

Perhaps a more relevant question would be, if you don't agree with the conclusion then which of the statements which led to it would you disagree with?

 

Do you not agree that if the staff members you tip have to hand over what you give them then it may as well just go straight to NCL?

 

Or do you not agree that if they don't then people who would receive a share of the DSC which you plan to remove will lose out?

 

I'm genuinely interested.

[titangas]

Do you have any incontrovertible proof behind this statement?

 

Well ask yourself this?

Do I believe that NCL makes staff turn in tips?

 

If you answer Yes -- Than removing the DSC is pointless as your cash tips with get divided up anyway.

 

If you answer No -- Then you personally are stiffing some staff, NCL in its printed materials state that part of the DSC goes to compensating behind the scenes staff, so you are "stiffing" them.

 

From NCL Site "The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated "

[LoveyHowell]

So the workers who wash and clean your towels, sheets, dishes etc just get an" oh, well" since you don't "see or interact" with them? What about those that vacuum the ship or clean the public restrooms or refill the hand sanitizer? What about those that mop the floor in the buffet or by the pool so you don't slip and fall? How about those that help you in and or out of the tenders? All of these behind the scenes workers help make the cruise more enjoyable on multiple levels, even though don't see them directly

 

They are paid as part of the cruise fare. Or should be. It's a downright shame that the cruise line is able to tie their pay package to discretionary tips when these workers don't interact with guests directly. Someone mopping a floor deserves a livable wage. They should not have to be tipped for what amounts to maintenance work. That surely isn't my fault though. I hate to sound callous about it, I really do, but you asked and I felt I should answer honestly. When you go to a restaurant do you look for the crew that throws out the trash and go tip them?

[LoveyHowell]

If someone offered you proof, would you care? Would you change your mind?

 

Doubtful.

 

So what's the point of asking for it? What's the point of your continued discussion on the topic? You're going to do what you're going to do... so get on with it already.

 

You can doubt all you like, but in the absence of anyone here having proof we are all just discussing opinions. If someone can show factual proof I would always pay attention to it. I do live in fact based world. Evidence can change a persons mind as long as they are open minded. So I ask, do you have any evidence? "Doubtful" says my magic 8 ball.

[LoveyHowell]

I'm sure we will look forward to seeing you go into the kitchens to tip all of the cooks and dishwashers who prepare your food and clean up after you, as well as the laundry to tip the crew who wash your sheets and towels. We'll see you stopping every maintenance person you see to tip them all individually as well, right?

 

I would imagine there are about 100 crew members on board that at some point have an impact on your cruise, directly. From washing your towels and sheets, cooking your food, washing your dishes, bussing your tables, keeping the buffet stocked, etc. You are essentially giving the finger to about 90 of them.

 

Congrats.

 

That's not how I see it at all. But nice attempt to be a bully. Shame on you. Grow up. None of those are tipped positions in any other industry. I'm not tipping dishwasher, laundry people, or kitchen staff. I've paid for those services in my cruise fare.

[triptolemus]

You can doubt all you like, but in the absence of anyone here having proof we are all just discussing opinions. If someone can show factual proof I would always pay attention to it. I do live in fact based world. Evidence can change a persons mind as long as they are open minded. So I ask, do you have any evidence? "Doubtful" says my magic 8 ball.

 

I don't. But you didn't answer my question... why do you insist on continuing the debate? Since we've arrived at the proverbial proof-wall, there really isn't anything left to talk about. You're going to do what you're going to do. Why not leave it at that?

 

There will be no proof for you. No one is posting the NCL Operations Manual.

 

Just go and remove the DSC and be done with it.

[LoveyHowell]

I will await someone, anyone, to post some form of proof to back up their opinions. This thread is full of people that think they throw $20 on top of DSC and have the path to heaven paved for them all while treating others like wild animals. Some of you people need a major reality check.

[KeithJenner]

They are paid as part of the cruise fare. Or should be. It's a downright shame that the cruise line is able to tie their pay package to discretionary tips when these workers don't interact with guests directly. Someone mopping a floor deserves a livable wage. They should not have to be tipped for what amounts to maintenance work. That surely isn't my fault though. I hate to sound callous about it, I really do, but you asked and I felt I should answer honestly. When you go to a restaurant do you look for the crew that throws out the trash and go tip them?

 

Your reasoning seems to be starting to fall apart now.

 

You are have justified tipping individually, rather than via the DSC, because you have concerns about the way that NCL deals with it. My understanding, from your posts earlier and the one from yesterdays deleted thread, is that you have some concerns that NCL isn't passing the DSC on fully. Whether or not I agree with your solution, it does have its merits.

 

However, you now seem to be saying that if, in your efforts to right this perceived wrong, you end up doing the staff out of money that they would have otherwise received, then that is basically tough luck.

 

Those two points just don't add up.

 

I am making no judgement on your motives, but your reasoning seems very confused.

[LoveyHowell]

I don't. But you didn't answer my question... why do you insist on continuing the debate?

 

I think if people are going to talk to me like I am an animal for asking a question (that was a different thread) they ought to have proof of the words they use.

[KeithJenner]

I'm not tipping dishwasher, laundry people, or kitchen staff. I've paid for those services in my cruise fare.

 

Except you haven't. NCL is quite clear that they are included in the DSC. You may think that they should be paid from your fare, but it is quite clear that they aren't.

 

Wanting something doesn't make it true.

[LoveyHowell]

Your reasoning seems to be starting to fall apart now.

 

You are have justified tipping individually, rather than via the DSC, because you have concerns about the way that NCL deals with it. My understanding, from your posts earlier and the one from yesterdays deleted thread, is that you have some concerns that NCL isn't passing the DSC on fully. Whether or not I agree with your solution, it does have its merits.

 

However, you now seem to be saying that if, in your efforts to right this perceived wrong, you end up doing the staff out of money that they would have otherwise received, then that is basically tough luck.

 

Those two points just don't add up.

 

I am making no judgement on your motives, but your reasoning seems very confused.

 

My reasoning is that I want to make sure that those that provide service to me receive the tips they have earned/deserve without interference from the company. I do not believe it is my obligation to tip some of those other positions. I believe it is the companies obligation to pay them for their work. Why shoulda dishwasher, cook, or laundry person have to rely on a tip when they never interact with a guest and a tip is a thank you for services received? NCL has given me the option to leave a gratuity in the manner which I want to. I hope this has answered your question.

[triptolemus]

I think if people are going to talk to me like I am an animal for asking a question (that was a different thread) they ought to have proof of the words they use.

 

Listen, they don't have proof. Okay? Get it? No proof.

 

What you do have here is a majority of folks who disagree with your decision to remove the DSC, and a handful of folks who agree.

 

Of those folks that disagree, they've chosen to share anecdotal evidence to support their disagreement. Whether that be a conversation with a crew member, their experience onboard a cruise ship (some here have worked on them), or whatever else... they are sharing with you why they believe removing the DSC is a bad idea. You are left to consider their position. You can disagree with them, which, apparently, you do.

 

At the end of the day, there is no proof. No one here works for NCL and and no one here knows exactly how the DSC is used. However, a reasonable person must admit that the DSC does support the crew (seen and unseen) in some manner.

 

If you want to remove the DSC, then do it. Just stop looking for proof. It sounds silly.

Edited February 25, 2015 by triptolemus

[LoveyHowell]

Listen, they don't have proof. Okay? Get it? No proof.

 

What you do have here is a majority of folks who disagree with your decision to remove the DSC, and a handful of folks who agree.

 

Of those folks that disagree, they've chosen to share anecdotal evidence to support their disagreement. Whether that be a conversation with a crew member, their experience onboard a cruise ship (some here have worked on them), or whatever else... they are sharing with you why they believe removing the DSC is a bad idea. You are left to consider their position. You can disagree with them, which, apparently, you do.

 

At the end of the day, there is no proof. No one here works for NCL and and no one here knows exactly how the DSC is used. However, a reasonable person must admit that the DSC does support the crew (seen and unseen) in some manner.

 

If you want to remove the DSC, then do it. Just stop looking for proof. It sounds silly.

 

 

I'll give you credit for carrying the conversation like a normal person and without being mean or nasty about it. We view things differently, but we do not have to be mean to each other about it. Thank you.

[russianmom]

They are paid as part of the cruise fare. Or should be. It's a downright shame that the cruise line is able to tie their pay package to discretionary tips when these workers don't interact with guests directly. Someone mopping a floor deserves a livable wage. They should not have to be tipped for what amounts to maintenance work. That surely isn't my fault though. I hate to sound callous about it, I really do, but you asked and I felt I should answer honestly. When you go to a restaurant do you look for the crew that throws out the trash and go tip them?

 

The difference is this is how NCL has decided to structure their employee compensation... restaurants don't do it that way.

[KeithJenner]

. I hope this has answered your question.

 

 

It has certainly answered a lot. You are quite happy to make a decision which you accept will probably take money from people who work to make your holiday enjoyable.

 

I understand now. Thanks

Edited February 25, 2015 by KeithJenner

[triptolemus]

I'll give you credit for carrying the conversation like a normal person and without being mean or nasty about it. We view things differently, but we do not have to be mean to each other about it. Thank you.

 

That's nice of you. Someone in another thread just called me an "obnoxious miserable ass" -- so... thanks!

 

:)

[hpecorari]

My reasoning is that I want to make sure that those that provide service to me receive the tips they have earned/deserve without interference from the company.

 

It seems as the other thread you started on removing your DSC has been pulled I repeat here what I said there......

The people who wash your linens and towels - they don't provide a service to you? The people who clean the ship and public restrooms, tables around the pool etc. don't provide a service to you? The people who wash your plates, glasses, silverware, etc. don't provide a service to you? The maintenance people who fix your toilets, AC, etc. don't provide a service to you?

 

I do not believe it is my obligation to tip some of those other positions. I believe it is the companies obligation to pay them for their work. Why shoulda dishwasher, cook, or laundry person have to rely on a tip when they never interact with a guest and a tip is a thank you for services received?

 

because without all those 'behind the scenes people" you wouldn't have anything. Those people you ARE tipping in cash are giving you what OTHERS have given them to provide for you.

 

NCL has given me the option to leave a gratuity in the manner which I want to.

 

Yes, it has given you the option, however it's NOT their choice of the way to do things. If it were, they wouldn't add it to your daily account or ask if one wanted to pre-pay it.

 

One day, I hope soon, they add it into the cruise fare like they do port fees and taxes.

 

You can and will do as you wish, but there are two sides to this and we can agree to disagree.

[mjkacmom]

They are paid as part of the cruise fare. Or should be. It's a downright shame that the cruise line is able to tie their pay package to discretionary tips when these workers don't interact with guests directly. Someone mopping a floor deserves a livable wage. They should not have to be tipped for what amounts to maintenance work. That surely isn't my fault though. I hate to sound callous about it, I really do, but you asked and I felt I should answer honestly. When you go to a restaurant do you look for the crew that throws out the trash and go tip them?

 

If you do not agree with the salary structure of most mass market cruise lines, take your business elsewhere. Would you stiff a server at a land based restaurant because you don't think your tip should supplement the few dollars an hour they make? Do you think it's okay for anyone to do that? Why stiff hard working individuals because you don't agree with company policy?

[KevInPitt]

They are paid as part of the cruise fare. Or should be. It's a downright shame that the cruise line is able to tie their pay package to discretionary tips when these workers don't interact with guests directly. Someone mopping a floor deserves a livable wage. They should not have to be tipped for what amounts to maintenance work. That surely isn't my fault though. I hate to sound callous about it, I really do, but you asked and I felt I should answer honestly. When you go to a restaurant do you look for the crew that throws out the trash and go tip them?

 

But those services haven't been paid for as a part of your cruise fare as they relate to published allocations of who is provided or compensated by the DSC. You may not like it but this is the structure in place. It isn't reasonable to correlate to land-based establishments where tipping is customary.

 

It's probably been said before but I'll say it again: there needs to be a disconnect between the understanding of "DSC" and "tip" (or gratuity). They aren't the same thing in this arena.

 

I don't disagree with you that the distribution of the DSC (and the respective compensation of those who are intended to receive it) is "different". But, again, because you don't like it or choose to champion it to be different doesn't make it so.

 

All cruise lines use some language that permit removal of DSCs if there is a lack of acceptable service and no remedy can be provided. To opt for elimination of the DSC for any other reason (because you don't like it, because you aren't sure the recipients are getting a fair share, because you only want to "tip" certain people, etc) is misguided.

 

I truly understand your viewpoint and respect you for expressing it openly, honestly and passionately. I do, however, disagree with you.

 

And to answer one of your questions: I have always left the DSC in place and tipped generously those who did provide exceptional service on a direct basis.

Edited February 25, 2015 by KevInPitt

[LoveyHowell]

If you do not agree with the salary structure of most mass market cruise lines, take your business elsewhere. Would you stiff a server at a land based restaurant because you don't think your tip should supplement the few dollars an hour they make? Do you think it's okay for anyone to do that? Why stiff hard working individuals because you don't agree with company policy?

 

Let me ask you a question before I answer yours. Before DSC and Automatically added gratuities the cruise lines always provided a break down of per diem suggestions for tips, usually to wait staff, room steward (or stewardess) as well as the head waiter. The cruise line did not get involved and you handed those people cash, above, below, or at the suggested rate.

 

Do you mean to tell me that the maintenance crew, laundry crew, dishwashers and cooks all worked for free then? No. Of course not. They were paid proper wages just like in every other industry. Do I feel like someone fixing a broken pipe is providing ME a service? No. I do not feel that way. That is not an amenity or feature of my vacation. They are taking care of a capital asset that is NCL's, repairs and maintenance which must be done for normal operations.

 

When we go to dinner we tip those that serve us, name the wait staff, and from time to time a restaurant may have a valet or a coat check person. We interact with these people and receive services from them. But the restaurant needs to wash dishes, cook food, and throw out trash. Those are services required to make the restuarant run. They do not interact with me and I do not believe they should be tipped. They should be paid proper wages. That said, we also always reserve the right to tip at our discretion. That means not all servers get the same tip from us. Lousy servers get a "base" tip, great servers get wonderful tips. That is exactly how the service industry works. I don't tip my mailman, the cable guy, the plumber...etc. I pay for those services and they are part of the infrastructure of life. It would be a crying shame if they were made to earn a living off of a tip instead of a wage.

 

Hopefully this illustrates my point a bit more clearly.

[sparks1093]

The difference is this is how NCL has decided to structure their employee compensation... restaurants don't do it that way.

 

Sure they do, many restaurants expect the waitstaff to tip out to other positions, and you the customer have no say in the matter. In fact most of the establishments will expect the waitstaff to tip out based on what the expected tip amount was, even if the customer left little to no tip.

[peepaw]

Maybe this will help. It kind of explains how they are paid.

 

http://work.chron.com/average-salary-cruise-ship-workers-1932.html