Auto Gratuity At Specialty Restaurant Implemented

[maywell]

I read all these "theories" but one glaring question remains.

 

Why are people who remove the DSC called cheap and "stiffing the crew" ?

 

The DSC is distributed at the whims of NCL management and we don't know if the person whom we deem deserving of the gratuity is getting any of the money that NCL takes as DSC.

 

What logic dictates that I should give money that could be distributed to someone who has not given me any service, works on any of the ships I have not salied, and I have not seen. They may be a favorite of management whether they provide good service or not.

 

I would consider those who leave the DSC in place "cheap" and "stiffing the crew" due to the fact that the person who gives them good service may not get any of the money they deserve.

 

If NCL mangement were open and above board about how they handle this, my opinion may change, but I cannot see how pooling the money fleetwide is beneficial to the person I want to benefit from the service they give me.

 

Cancelling the DSC and tipping MY server and room steward is the most logical approach I can see.

 

 

Want to know why I think people who remove the DSC are 'cheap' and 'stiffing the crew'? Because I don't see them tipping one waiter per day let alone a team of 2-3 waiters per day - the average tip is what? $2-5 per waiter and there's usually 2-3 waiters helping - 1 or 2 bringing the food / serving wine and 1 or 2 cleaning up the table. That's for dinner, imagine for breakfast and lunch in MDR - I highly doubt those that remove the DSC will tip for those meals as well. And if those DSC removers go into the buffet for those 2 meal times, they should pay tip in there as well especially if you're getting custom-made like omelettes or the staff took the plates / cups from you for clean up (DSC covers all of that for the buffet)

 

 

At least the people who keep it on can choose to tip on top or not because they already paid the DSC in the 1st place. Let's be honest, DSC is cheaper to pay and easier to deal with than tipping out in cash to every staff member that serves you, seen or unseen. DSC covers the bedsheets and towels in your room (aka linen laundry staff) - yeah, you tip the room steward doesn't mean the room steward should bring those fresh/clean to you since you didn't bother to pay the unseen staff (everything is interconnected to DSC but the ship's officers / management staff)

[maywell]

Would you change your approach to this if the tips you left at Hard Rock Cafe in Los Angeles were taken from your server and given to someone in Tokyo or Bangkok ?

 

Like I said, control freak issues when it comes to money - why do you care if the money went to Tokyo or Bangkok hard Rock Cafe after you paid it at a Los Angles one? Last I check, the money stay in its local location just like the DSC stays to the staff of Breakaway instead of the Getaway when i sailed the Breakaway last year. And even if it did went to the Getaway and/or ship-wide - that not my concern or business because I paid my financial obligation and that is that.

[swedish weave]

Where did NCL say they were pooling the DSC, auto-gratuity, etc., fleet wide? I must have missed that.

 

Yes ! You must have missed it.

[swedish weave]

Let's be honest, DSC is cheaper to pay.

 

I see we agree on this.

[maywell]

Yes ! You must have missed it.

 

A portion is used fleet-wide for crew welfare programs, it doesn't say how much nor should you care - You said you weren't going to pay the DSC anyway, so why heck are you making a big deal over something that you're not paying in the 1st place? :rolleyes:

[swedish weave]

Like I said, control freak issues when it comes to money - why do you care if the money went to Tokyo or Bangkok hard Rock Cafe after you paid it at a Los Angles one? Last I check, the money stay in its local location just like the DSC stays to the staff of Breakaway instead of the Getaway when i sailed the Breakaway last year. And even if it did went to the Getaway and/or ship-wide - that not my concern or business because I paid my financial obligation and that is that.

 

A tip is not an obligation and the DSC does not necessarily stay on the ship. It is distributed at managements discretion.

[maywell]

 

I see we agree on this.

 

 

If you can't cough up $12.95 per day or DSC-removed cash equivalent - stop sailing on NCL - I think everyone can agree on that. :rolleyes:

[swedish weave]

A portion is used fleet-wide for crew welfare programs, it doesn't say how much nor should you care - You said you weren't going to pay the DSC anyway, so why heck are you making a big deal over something that you're not paying in the 1st place? :rolleyes:

 

I did not say that ! You evidently misunderstand the word "logic".

[maywell]

A tip is not an obligation and the DSC does not necessarily stay on the ship. It is distributed at managements discretion.

 

Service charge is an obligation and that is exactly what the DSC is, a service charge, not a tip. It even says it in the guest ticket contract what it is - try searching for the words 'tip(s)' and 'gratuity(ies)'; you'll realize neither words are in there.

 

 

You don't want to pay it and that's fine - But don't get all control freaked out wanting to know where the money is, that you did not pay in the 1st place. 'Tip' who you want to 'tip' and keep it moving - caring about if that person put it in a pool or not, is not your concern once its in their personal hands for hours.

[maywell]

I did not say that ! You evidently misunderstand the word "logic".

 

No I understood completely, you think that is logically for your wallet and sensibilities - by all means don't pay it but then stop wondering about what happen to other people DSC since it 'None of your business". Service Charges covers everything for them from towels to the buffet - why do you care how NCL is breaking it down the math to their staff paychecks?

Edited April 11, 2015 by maywell

[swedish weave]

If you can't cough up $12.95 per day or DSC-removed cash equivalent - stop sailing on NCL - I think everyone can agree on that. :rolleyes:

 

Your personal digs at me are not warranted and I believe you are doing this to avoid discussing the logic of my post.

 

Please try to keep the personal comments out of this discussion.

[NLH Arizona]

A portion is used fleet-wide for crew welfare programs, it doesn't say how much nor should you care - You said you weren't going to pay the DSC anyway, so why heck are you making a big deal over something that you're not paying in the 1st place? :rolleyes:

Thank you, I knew the information was stretching what really happens. If they are pooling the crew welfare fund that is one thing, but to elude that they are pooling everything fleet wide, well....

 

Also, if one chooses not to pay the DSC or 18 percent gratuity or service charge for room service, then why on God's green earth do they care what happens to the money of those that do.

[punkincc]

You keep ignoring the "before and after" of the service charge FAQ wording, as well as an article published on Cruise Critic about specialty restaurant tipping that I've cited multiple times. Taken together they provide more than adequate evidence that the specialty restaurant waiters used to be covered by the service charge, but no longer are.

 

Even worse, you continue to think that you're somehow entitled to know the full details of how NCL compensates its crew and how they use the service charges and gratuities. You're not...it's none of your business how a corporation compensates its employees. When you walk into a store and buy an appliance do you ask whether the salesperson is paid by salary, commission or a combination? Does the sales person's manager get an override on any sales commission? Do you ask a waiter or waitress in a restaurant if they keep all their tips, pool tips or have to "tip out" to the bus staff, bartender, host or hostess? Do you know what your supermarket is paying the cashier or the person who stocks the shelves? Do you know or ask if the manager gets a bonus based on the store's performance?

 

And why do you think it's even necessary to tip the wait staff in NCL's restaurants when NCL clearly says it's not? If you want to tip that's fine, but whether you do, or how much you tip, is based on your own judgement and discretion, and always was. The fact is you never knew how NCL distributed the service charges to its crew, and that hasn't changed.

 

Actually, you just pointed out a very clear inconsistency with the info on NCL with your statement "And why do you think it's even necessary to tip waitstaff in NCL's restaurants when NCL clearly say's it's not?". Why indeed, when they make this statement, but simultaneously add an 18% auto Gratuity to the bill! Now that is some clear thinking! Why justify a $4 increase to the Suite DSC with the explanation that suite guests enjoy the services of Butler and Concierge? Last I heard those folks are not included in the DSC pool and never were. Or are we now just supposed to read between the lines and interpret it as we wish? If I were to take the statement at face value, I would never tip the butler again. Little of the information on the website is clear on anything.

 

You are correct that it is not mine or anyone's business how a corporation compensates their employees. And they don't try to make it my business. Sears, for example, does not involve me in the pay of their employees by charging me a Service Fee when I walk in the door, which they explain goes toward compensation of their employees. And that is the huge difference between most corporations and the Cruise Lines, which DO involve the passengers in crew pay by being upfront that we are expected to pay Service Fees and Auto Gratuities to make up the incentive portion of crew's pay. So I am directly involved in crew pay, like it or not. If NCL prefers not to involve us, then charge enough cruise fare to cover the crew pay and keep us out of it.

 

On NCL, it my business only to the extent of the DSC and any Gratuities they charge me. When they tell me that no tipping is required, because NCL is taking that out of the DSC, I'd like to believe that. I'd just like some clarity as far as the DSC and the 18% Gratuity Service Charges. Is that too much to ask? Is it too difficult for NCL to simply and clearly say, "The Specialty Waiters are no longer included in the DSC pool and will be compensated out of the 18% Gratuity Pool for the incentive portion of their pay." Or, "The Specialty Waiters will be compensated out of a share of both the DSC and 18% Gratuity Pools."' The website has always been clear that Beverage Staff are not included in the DSC, and that Butlers are not. And Children's staff. Why is it so difficult for NCL to be clear on whether or not Specialty Staff are or are not included?

 

Like it or not, we live in a world where tipping is the norm. Like it or not, NCL has said they will make it easy for us by having a DSC for that purpose. I was never one to tip over and above the DSC even in Specialties. I never before questioned whether or not this money was disbursed as indended. But this lack of clarity surrounding the DSC, who's in, who's out, and the 18% Gratuity and Service Charge has got me questioning why NCL finds it so hard to be clear. It makes me think that perhaps it is not a gratuity at all, but mostly a thinly disguised fee increase. And that IS my business, because NCL has said that it is MY gratuity. So I would just like to know if that entire 18% is going into the pool, or if maybe 15% or so is a service charge for NCL and only 3% goes to the pool. They have left that interpretation open with their wording. And I should have to read something published on Cruise Critic in order to understand the information published by the cruise line itself on their own web site? I just don't get that.

 

And no, I do not worry whether waiters I tip at home tip out or that they may not get what is coming to them. We have some pretty clear laws that cover employers and how tip compensation is handled. I don't worry that the management is taking 3% off my tip before passing it along to the servers. Not sure this is the case with the Cruise Lines.

Edited April 11, 2015 by punkincc

[swedish weave]

Thank you, I knew the information was stretching what really happens. If they are pooling the crew welfare fund that is one thing, but to elude that they are pooling everything fleet wide, well....

 

Also, if one chooses not to pay the DSC or 18 percent gratuity or service charge for room service, then why on God's green earth do they care what happens to the money of those that do.

 

Do I have to explain to each of you that I DID NOT SAY i WASN'T GOING TO PAY THE DSC !!!

 

Perhaps if you read what I posted instead of looking for ways to start arguments, you will underestand that I was talking about the LOGIC. Not my personal handling. Personal insults and digs do not need to enter these discussions.

[NLH Arizona]

do i have to explain to each of you that i did not say i wasn't going to pay the dsc !!!

 

Perhaps if you read what i posted instead of looking for ways to start arguments, you will underestand that i was talking about the logic. Not my personal handling. Personal insults and digs do not need to enter these discussions.

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU, with regard to the DSC, for goodness sake!!!!!! There are others on here who HAVE SAID THEY WILL REMOVED THEIR DSC. Edited April 11, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[swedish weave]

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU, with regard to the DSC, for goodness sake!!!!!! There are others on here who HAVE SAID THEY WILL REMOVED THEIR DSC.

 

Thank you ! That is nice !

[SteveH2508]

Quote from punkincc "Like it or not, we live in a world where tipping is the norm."

 

Actually I think you will find that the "tip everybody" culture in the US is not the norm in the rest of the world. Just saying...

[punkincc]

Quote from punkincc "Like it or not, we live in a world where tipping is the norm."

 

Actually I think you will find that the "tip everybody" culture in the US is not the norm in the rest of the world. Just saying...

 

 

True, but the ships that sail from ports located in the US are mostly full of US passengers who are used to tipping. Europeans pay service staff differently than companies in the US do. A waiter in England may earn a living wage and no tips are expected. In the US, the waiter earns a very sub scale base pay, $2 or $3 an hour, and our tips are meant to subsidize the wage and bring it up to a somewhat livable scale.

 

The pay structure on a cruise ship is set up pretty much like service workers are paid in the US. They get a low base pay which is supplemented by "incentive pay which the Daily Service Charge supports" to quote NCL.

 

So if you are going to cruise NCL, you really can't get away from it.

 

But I agree, the tipping culture is out of control. Some people think they need to tip anything that moves. I really wasn't aware of how many people on NCL ALWAYS tip in the MDR, the Specialty, and even leave money on the table in the buffet. If they were not already collecting our money for this, ( the DSC ) I could understand.

[Out to sea!]

Quote from punkincc "Like it or not, we live in a world where tipping is the norm."

 

Actually I think you will find that the "tip everybody" culture in the US is not the norm in the rest of the world. Just saying...

 

I agree, but when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Or would you rather I drive on the right hand side of the road when in England?? :rolleyes:

[SteveH2508]

I agree, but when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Or would you rather I drive on the right hand side of the road when in England?? :rolleyes:

 

I do the Roman thing - that does not stop me from commenting on what a feudal, patronising, cockamamie system the whole tipping thing is.

 

You are implying that I do not 'follow the rules' - I do (on US cruise lines like NCL - I have always pre-paid my OBSC and tipped extra where deserved) - you seem to have the problem - not me.

 

It just amazes me how many brain-cells and electrons are being consumed (wasted?) on debating a fundamentally flawed system which still exists a civilised society.

 

I know I cannot change the system in US and on most cruise lines; that does not stop me expressing my contempt for the system however.

[antsnanny]

Not cool at all. It amounts to $4.50 pp on a $25 cover charge, which is not even close to what we normally leave; however, if I am being "forced" to tip, then that is all that will be left.

 

 

Seems, thats just punishing the wait staff, no?

[punkincc]

I do the Roman thing - that does not stop me from commenting on what a feudal, patronising, cockamamie system the whole tipping thing is.

 

You are implying that I do not 'follow the rules' - I do (on US cruise lines like NCL - I have always pre-paid my OBSC and tipped extra where deserved) - you seem to have the problem - not me.

 

It just amazes me how many brain-cells and electrons are being consumed (wasted?) on debating a fundamentally flawed system which still exists a civilised society.

 

I know I cannot change the system in US and on most cruise lines; that does not stop me expressing my contempt for the system however.

 

 

I understand. Some of us feel the same way about the need to have a King or Queen. Talk about a monumental waste of money, just to uphold a "tradition". And what would be the use of me bringing this up on a trip to England. It is not like my opinion is going to change anything. It would just insult the locals:).

[thecaptain1969]

It isn't fundamentally flawed if you have ever worked in said system. There are very few things in life that are "perfect" and without flaw. All of which have twos side to debate/discuss.

 

The idea of some unrealistic utopia is rather silly to me. Human beings as a species with their very nature prevent such a world form ever existing, yet many people believe it can be achieved.

 

I digress however as this is going way off topic.

 

 

 

 

Happy Sailings,

 

TheCapt

[NLH Arizona]

I do the Roman thing - that does not stop me from commenting on what a feudal, patronising, cockamamie system the whole tipping thing is.

 

You are implying that I do not 'follow the rules' - I do (on US cruise lines like NCL - I have always pre-paid my OBSC and tipped extra where deserved) - you seem to have the problem - not me.

 

It just amazes me how many brain-cells and electrons are being consumed (wasted?) on debating a fundamentally flawed system which still exists a civilised society.

 

I know I cannot change the system in US and on most cruise lines; that does not stop me expressing my contempt for the system however.

If I get lousy service in London, can tell them to remove the service charge and if I ask them, will they do it?

[SteveH2508]

If I get lousy service in London, can tell them to remove the service charge and if I ask them, will they do it?

 

Probably - never had that situation yet...