Auto Gratuity At Specialty Restaurant Implemented

[hawkeyetlse]

People who get the free UDP will have their 18% paid into the pool by NCL on their behalf. Either assume that, or remove from your DSC totals the percentage of guests who chose the free gratuities perk of the Choice promo. Or, simplify things and don't take the promos into consideration at all. After all, your percentages are wild guesses anyway.

 

And you neglected to deduct all of the people who remove the DSC.

[hawkeyetlse]

Ohhh, I don't know about that. As of yesterday morning, I believe, the bar gratuity was still showing 15%. That's why I believe it's been updated.

No, that change was made to the tipping FAQ on March 4th or 5th. I posted about it in a thread about the new drink prices. You may be thinking of the UDP FAQ, which as of now still mentions the 15% auto-tip for drinks even though the page has been modified in the last 24 hours to mention the 18% specialty dining auto-tip. Edited March 21, 2015 by hawkeyetlse

[SissasMomE]

Perhaps that is nothing more than an indication that your attempt to broad-brush the behavior/opinions is more than a bit flawed.

 

 

Hard to justify calling people "cheer staff" when the rubber hits the road isn't it?

 

 

Yet, the haters NEVER seem to change their tune...;)

 

Excellent observation. :D

[rochelle_s]

Rochelle, I understand that that part of the website was updated, but the gratuities part of the website has not been updated, otherwise it would show the gratuities for the specialty restaurant servers, which it clearly doesn't. On the gratuities section, there is no mention of the specialty restaurant gratuity, but there is for the bar servers, which the increase was done prior to adding the gratuity for the servers. And when that is updated, along with the DSC (if applicable), it will hopefully give one a clear picture of what is going on. I'm certainly not disputing that they have updated the UDP section of the website.

 

Again, we will have to agree to disagree until we get some clarification from NCL on this.

 

That's my whole point.

 

They have updated the information in the terms and conditions for the UDP. They have updated their entire system to charge the 18% if you go to book an individual dinner or the UDP. They have recently updated their tipping page with the increase to the auto gratuity on beverages reflected.

 

I agree that on the tipping page there is no mention of the specialty restaurant servers. Just as is there is no mention of their removal from the DSC on the service charge page. Now you might think these changes are coming but I would not hold my breath waiting for it to happen. They can and should make alterations to their tipping page. They can no longer say they do not require nor recommend tips on their ships when they clearly do. They say that we should not feel obligated to leave a tip, but if you go to a specialty restaurant you are now obligated to leave 18%.

 

I don't think they can honestly change the service charge pages. First off, the auto gratuity in the specialty restaurants can not support the wait staff wages. Secondly if those staff work elsewhere on the ship the only way for them to be compensated is through the DSC hence they cannot say they are removed from it.

 

Updating a webpage is a very simple job for an IT person. A few keystrokes and voilà it is done. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. Give it two weeks and have another look. That's way more than enough time. But I really don't see it happening. To be clear, I'm not trying to attack NCL. I like the brand. I have no horse in this race as I don't pay for the specialty restaurants. Other than the one time I bought the UDP all my visits have been comps. I'm not a fan of auto gratuities. I don't like the idea of double dipping. I especially don't like the way they are trying to sneak it in there! Once they get started on adding all these little extras where does it stop? We've seen four changes in less than three weeks, what other little surprises are ahead of us?

 

On Cruise Critic alone there have been over 30,000 views and almost 1000 comments on something they 'announced' about 12 hours ago. Not to mention various other social media and discussion groups. Feelings being overwhelmingly on the negative side. They do not seem to be worried about their public relations. If they wanted to, they could quite easily set the record straight. They choose not to. You can draw your own conclusions from that. They post zilch online and the answer given to those who call is something that just is not fiscally possible. I think they owe us more than that.

 

Just my thoughts and its perfectly okay if we agree to disagree. :)

 

 

Rochelle

[rochelle_s]

People who get the free UDP will have their 18% paid into the pool by NCL on their behalf. Either assume that, or remove from your DSC totals the percentage of guests who chose the free gratuities perk of the Choice promo. Or, simplify things and don't take the promos into consideration at all. After all, your percentages are wild guesses anyway.

 

And you neglected to deduct all of the people who remove the DSC.

 

I thought I was being fair to the other side of the argument with my guesstimates. Which by the way were in response to a miscalculation saying that a waiter makes $3.50- 4.00 per day. I think the number of people who tip extra far outweigh those who remove part or all of the DSC so lets count that as a wash.

 

Now those numbers of $3.50-4.00 per day have been around forever...back when the total per day was $9.00 even. Who knows what it is these days but wanting to be more than fair I will stick with $3.50 per person per day. The number of 200 wait staff I feel is generous. Not accounting for anyone ever giving anyone a cash tip those 200 people would each receive $70.49 per day.

 

Again to be fair, not only will I give you all the promotional guests gratuities (which I don't believe the company will be coughing up from their own pockets) but I will give you all the Platinum and CAS guests as well. If 10% of the ship eats in the specialty restaurant all paying the 18% gratuity and each of the 6 restaurants has only 6 servers then 36 people will be splitting $1,511.25 giving them each a whopping $41.98.

 

If you want you can play with the numbers. You can factor in 10% (very high guesstimate) or more if you like of people who remove their entire DSC it still will not compare.

 

The specialty restaurants cannot solely sustain those servers wages. You are not going to get a good experienced server wanting to work that venue when the new guy in the buffet is making more than him. They need to have income from somewhere else and than somewhere else is the DSC. Its a falsehood for the corporation to say otherwise. So if a server is being compensated from the DSC and the specialty restaurant 18% auto- gratuity then that is double dipping and it is wrong and the way they are going about it is even worse.

 

 

Rochelle

[NLH Arizona]

Just for fun I ran some numbers to compare with yours. I have erred on your side of the arguments favour on every account. I am using the Getaway sailing at full capacity. Every suite or Haven cabin only has two guests. Sixty-five percent of the crew are included in the DSC. I have based this on 6 specialty restaurants (excluding the a la carte venues and Ocean Blue). Ten percent of the guests eat in the specialty restaurants. Forty percent of those guests are eating because of a promotion, Platinum or CAS.

 

DSC for 4028 guests:

• 3340 @ $12.95 = $43,253.00 reg cabins
  
• 688 @ $14.95 = $10,285.60 suites and havens
  
• Total DSC per day =$53, 538.60
  

 

There is 1640 crew on the ship. 35% (574) are excluded from the DSC (Officers, Bartenders, Spa, Fitness, Entertainment, Kid's Club, Casino, Shops, Engineers etc -- oh and those specialty restaurant servers). That leaves 1066 people to share in the DSC.

 

There are 403 guests in the specialty restaurants each night ( 10%). So 40% percent (161) are not charged the auto gratuity because they are not paying personally paying for their meal. That leaves 242 paying 18% each. The average charge for the 6 main specialty restaurants is $20.83 per head. The average auto gratuity is $3.75 x the 242 guests leaves us with $907.50

 

A conservative figure of 6 servers per specialty restaurant (6x6) means 36 people share the $907.50. This gives each server a grand total of $25.21

 

The DSC is $53, 538.60 per day. We will take 10% off the top ($5,353.86) for the crew welfare fund leaving us with $48,184.74 to be split among the 1066 crew entitled. They would each receive $45.20.

 

Now if it were me working as a waiter on a cruise ship my choice would be to stick with the DSC. Even though 10% is skimmed off the top for welfare fund and parties (boy, they must be good with that kinda cash), I would still be making almost twice as much as a waiter in a specialty restaurant. That's before we take into consideration that I divided the DSC evenly among everyone and we know that is not how it works. Waiters are among the top end of that food chain so would be entitled to a greater share.

 

Your math was a little off when you said the amount a regular server gets is $3.50-4.00. Which was true in the past and on other lines, and could still be true on NCL. What you forgot to factor in is that is per person per day, not just per day. That would equate to $14,098 (4028 passengers x $3.50) per day. Even if there were 200 wait staff serving the complementary restaurants, they would each be making $70.49 each. Now even more I would not want to be a waiter in a specialty restaurant.

 

If they are only being paid by the 18%, as they are telling people over the phone, then the specialty waiter position is a demotion and I can not imagine anyone willing working there. You can be sure the best wait staff on the ship will be working in other venues.

 

 

 

Rochelle

I would believe, that those "free" dinners whether promotional, platinum diners or CAS diners, those gratuities are paid by those departments, just as I don't think the servers in the MDR would not lose their gratuities because a passenger was given the perk of free gratuities (which btw you did not consider those that got free gratuities that eat in the MDR). Which would bring that figure up to $42 for the specialty restaurant servers and we don't know if the division of the DSC is equal and you have not taken into consideration those don't pay the DSC or reduce them, I think if all that is taken into consideration, we will find that the amounts are probably similar for the specialty restaurants and the MDR servers, if not a little less for the MDR servers versus the specialty restaurants.

 

BTW, all these calculations are based off the DSC and they do not included any extra tips that passengers may give them. And don't forget some feel that the extra tips are pooled and some feel that they are not.

Edited March 21, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[hpecorari]

No, that change was made to the tipping FAQ on March 4th or 5th. I posted about it in a thread about the new drink prices. You may be thinking of the UDP FAQ, which as of now still mentions the 15% auto-tip for drinks even though the page has been modified in the last 24 hours to mention the 18% specialty dining auto-tip.

 

Yes, you are correct. I was thinking of the UDP FAQ.

 

Harriet

[NLH Arizona]

Ohhh, I don't know about that. As of yesterday morning, I believe, the bar gratuity was still showing 15%. That's why I believe it's been updated.

 

Harriet

it shows the bar gratuity as 18 percent, but makes not mention of the specialty restaurant gratuity, which should be in there if the website was updated to reflect the change.

 

 

 

.

Edited March 21, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

I thought I was being fair to the other side of the argument with my guesstimates. Which by the way were in response to a miscalculation saying that a waiter makes $3.50- 4.00 per day. I think the number of people who tip extra far outweigh those who remove part or all of the DSC so lets count that as a wash.

 

 

 

Rochelle

Rochelle, the $3.50 - $4.00 that I was speaking about is out of the DSC, it did not include any extra trips, because we are talking about the DSC, so it was not a miscalculation as you say. And BTW, many cruise lines pay their servers $3.50 a day out of their DSC or auto-gratuity.

 

When a cruise line charges their passengers $13 or $15 dollars a day, one could not imagine that dining services would get more 30 to 40 percent of the total DSC, because there are many, many other departments that are paid out of the DSC.

Edited March 21, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[hawkeyetlse]

So if a server is being compensated from the DSC and the specialty restaurant 18% auto- gratuity then that is double dipping and it is wrong and the way they are going about it is even worse.

Your numbers say that a server who works in the buffet/MDR all day long (let's say two shifts) makes more than a server who works in a specialty restaurant for one dinner shift. This doesn't seem wrong to me. But are you expecting the specialty server not to work in the daytime, or to work for free? Of course not: They are assigned to another venue for their daytime shift, and that shift is paid for out of the DSC. That doesn't seem wrong to me, and it isn't double-dipping (they are only paid once for each shift). And according to your numbers, they would get $72/2 for that shift, plus $42 for their dinner shift, so $78 for the day. So they do do a bit better (not outrageously better) than their colleagues who only work in complimentary dining venues.

 

It seems to me that you have shown (1) that the specialty servers should not, indeed cannot be excluded totally from the DSC distribution (not because they are double-dipping, but because they deserve to be paid when they are working in a complimentary venue), and (2) the new 18% auto-gratuity does not translate into outrageously high daily pay for specialty servers.

Edited March 21, 2015 by hawkeyetlse

[Demonyte]

an automatic 18%tip just for working in the Le Bistro and it appears that I can't take if off because its mandatory now

 

 

Auto-gratuities (in my books those are service charges just like DSC but they are handled that way because not all passengers use those services - unlike restaurant services) are not mandatory, you can have the bar/spa auto-gratuity removed/adjusted too if asked.

[rochelle_s]

 

It seems to me that you have shown (1) that the specialty servers should not, indeed cannot be excluded totally from the DSC distribution (not because they are double-dipping, but because they deserve to be paid when they are working in a complimentary venue), and (2) the new 18% auto-gratuity does not translate into outrageously high daily pay for specialty servers.

 

Yes, the people who work in the specialty venues work elsewhere during the day for which they must be compensated and the only place for this is the DSC. The cruise line is not employing someone just to work in a specialty restaurant. Why is NCL telling people who call and that they are removed from the DSC when this just cannot be true.

 

When I pay my DSC I have paid for many services including those of the restaurant staff. If I purchase the UDP I will be charged an additional $21.42 for gratuity which we are now being told is to pay the wages of the server as apparently they are no longer included in the DSC. If they are no longer covered, why? Do I receive a discount on my DSC? After all I will be dining in a specialty every night and will not be using the services of regular restaurant staff. Why should I pay for regular wait staff in the evenings if I am not using them? No matter which way you look at it the added 18% means I am paying twice....for wait staff that I am using in the specialty restaurant and through the DSC charged to my account for wait staff I am not using.

 

If the company feels they do not have enough money to pay the staff in the specialty restaurants they should have done one of two things; 1) Raised the DSC a little higher at the beginning of the month or 2) Raised the price of the cover charge in the specialty restaurant and put a portion of that into the DSC.

 

This adding a little here there and everywhere just does not add up as being for the crew. Other than the small increase to the price of drinks all other increases are supposedly for the crews benefit. Until a crew member tells me they are experiencing a significant increase in income I just cannot believe it.

 

 

Rochelle

[sundercruiser]

I would assume that the servers in the specialty restaurants might be given additional duties, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will be serving and if they are serving (doesn't mean they are participants in the DSC), if one thinks about it, they will make much more just getting the tips from the specialty restaurants, than they would being part of the DSC. If a server in the cheapest of the restaurants (which I think is $15), just has only three guests in an evening, they would get $8.10, which is far more than what they would get from a server's share of the $12.95. If NCL is anything like other cruise lines, servers get between $3.50 to $4.00 from their auto service charge/gratuities. And if they have a bad night, it will all balance out. I'm sure NCL put the pen to all this and wouldn't have done it, if the servers would get less than what they got before.

 

Going back to your "original" post so your words will help you understand how you miscalculated.

 

In your "analysis" you posit a server in the cheapest specialty serving just three guests all evening. You calculate that they'd receive just $8.10 from the new 18 percent auto-gratuity as a result. You then say this would be "far more" (your words) than an MDR server's share of the $12.95.

 

Yes, far more than the server's share of DSC from a SINGLE PASSENGER in the MDR.

 

Do you see what you did there?

[hawkeyetlse]

If the company feels they do not have enough money to pay the staff in the specialty restaurants they should have done one of two things; 1) Raised the DSC a little higher at the beginning of the month or 2) Raised the price of the cover charge in the specialty restaurant and put a portion of that into the DSC.

I think they raised the DSC as much as they felt they could get away with as it is (particularly for suites, which people are still not happy about). You have a better handle on the numbers than I do, so maybe raising the standard DSC to $13.50 instead of $12.95 would have had the same effect. However, they have chosen to set aside specialty dining as an extra service that not everyone on board enjoys (which is true, after all), and only make those people who choose to dine in specialty restaurants pay for that service (which is fair, after all).

 

As for the 2nd option, I thought the whole point was transparency from NCL. If you don't believe they are giving the new 18% to the servers, when it is set apart and clearly identified as a tip, would you believe them if they increased the cover charge and claimed that a portion was now being added to the DSC fund? I think we would encounter the same skepticism and the same accusations of double-dipping.

[AlexandNessa]

NCL has gone the way of Ryan Air, just when we were getting into a groove with them. :(

 

We will likely keep our Freestyle Choice bookings, but nothing further than that. There are too many other cruise lines we enjoy. NCL has implemented too many changes at once (dumbed-down bar menu, show reservations no longer valid), too many price increases (3% on drinks grats, ~7% increase on drink prices, 24.58% DSC increase for an H5 on the Breakaway --- all that extra room to tend to, of course!!, 18% increase on virtually every extra cost food item -- for your convenience!).

 

When you get aboard, and the entire staff seems to have its hands out, it cheapens the whole experience.

[NLH Arizona]

 

There are 403 guests in the specialty restaurants each night ( 10%). So 40% percent (161) are not charged the auto gratuity because they are not paying personally paying for their meal. That leaves 242 paying 18% each. The average charge for the 6 main specialty restaurants is $20.83 per head. The average auto gratuity is $3.75 x the 242 guests leaves us with $907.50

 

A conservative figure of 6 servers per specialty restaurant (6x6) means 36 people share the $907.50. This gives each server a grand total of $25.21

 

Hi Rochelle,

 

 

While working out this morning, I was thinking of your analogy of the tips for the specialty restaurant servers and something just didn’t set right, so I did some quick figures. I based my numbers of the Pearl, a ship I know well, and took each restaurant’s capacity and figured that they were 1/3 full and turned 4 times, which I think is a very, very conservative looking at the whole picture, especially since both Cagney’s and Le Bistro are usually much fuller, even full to capacity on many nights. On Teppanyaki, I left it full and only turned it three times and I left out Lotus Garden all together, because I never seen many in there, even though many say they love it and go a few times during a cruise. I then took the number of all seats and times them by the restaurant’s fee and then timed that figure by 18 percent. I came up with a figure of $2,439. Then I had to decide how many servers there were and I tried to count them up, like in Teppanyaki there are 4 servers and the 2 ladies (not sure if the ladies are considered servers or even if they are included in the tip, but counted them as well) and the figure I came up with for the 5 restaurants was 50, which is probably way more than what they have, but I wanted to be fair in my calculations.

 

I took the $2,439 figure and divided that by 50 and came up with an average tip per person at $48.78. Again, I believe my figures are very, very conservative. BTW, if I used your number of servers (36), the average per person would be $67.75.

 

Also, I took the total number of passengers on the ship and times that by $13.95 (yes I know it is high, but for sake of ease I took this number) and then divided it by the number of crew (taking off the 35% you used for non DSC crew/staff used in your calculations) and came up with $42 per crew member, which because I used $13.95 as the DSC amount, is considerably higher than it would actually be.

 

To address the specialty restaurants also getting the DSC. Do you really think that NCL would be paying one server $90 or $109 a day, while they are only paying another $42? Now do I think a server could make $90 to $109 a day with extra tips, no question about it (both those in the MDR and specialty restaurants), however, I don't think that would be an everyday occasion.

[sixesandeights]

NCL has gone the way of Ryan Air, just when we were getting into a groove with them. :(

 

We will likely keep our Freestyle Choice bookings, but nothing further than that. There are too many other cruise lines we enjoy. NCL has implemented too many changes at once (dumbed-down bar menu, show reservations no longer valid), too many price increases (3% on drinks grats, ~7% increase on drink prices, 24.58% DSC increase for an H5 on the Breakaway --- all that extra room to tend to, of course!!, 18% increase on virtually every extra cost food item -- for your convenience!).

 

When you get aboard, and the entire staff seems to have its hands out, it cheapens the whole experience.

 

Great points. Not only are their hands out, but they also now feel entitled to these extra wages with no motivation to provide any level of service. Auto-gratuities reduce the quality of services because they have no concern about going above and beyond to get compensation. Service in the specialties (which was no different then the MDR) will now be even worse because they know that they have already earned their money by you simply showing up.

 

6&8

[djmess]

Too bad NCL couldn't have just done an across the board $5 increase to each specialty restaurant.

 

We may have all moaned a bit, but we wouldn't be having these debates. I'm thinking we all just like to debate or we just don't like someone telling us what is convenient to us. Or maybe both those options:D

[mking8288]

Great points. Not only are their hands out, but they also now feel entitled to these extra wages with no motivation to provide any level of service ... Service in the specialties (which was no different then the MDR) will now be even worse because they know that they have already earned their money by you simply showing up.6&8

We have 2 LeBistro BA dinners coming up next week so we will share anything new, firsthand, afterward (unless, it's fully booked due to all the UDP's floating out there - and, choose alternate dining options for our vouchers)

Food quality, taste & presentation are subjective, IMO - but, we've watched the selections trimmed down - both in the MDR and in Specialty, with fewer choices as the surcharges gone up. 18% is NOT a convenience, get it !!

Last year, I actually waived the manager on duty at O'Sheehans to come over to voice our dissatisfaction about slow services, actually no service until we got the menus 10 minutes later and the food took another 45 minutes ... really surprising sailing NCL over the past decade plus. Please, we don't need it to get any worst.

Like some of you, we might just give CCL another run for our money for our next cruise and as shareholders, I don't need to worry about not getting a $100 OBC, fully combinable with other offerings. It's not easy to admit, their MDR choices last time, are BETTER than NCL on the Splendor - IMHO.

Edited March 21, 2015 by mking8288

[sundercruiser]

I don't think too many here would be that annoyed if NCL just jacked their prices, with the explanation that We just want to make more money from you. We understand that relationship -- they want to make more, we want to pay less. That's why we search for best possible prices, and come to CC to be the best possible educated consumers, to save money and get the best deal.

 

One could make the case that by denying NCL extra cash by not being sloppy consumers, we are "hurting" workers, because the more money NCL gets, the more likely some of it will trickle down to the workers. Some here have come pretty close to making this point, actually.

 

But most of us would reject this argument, because there's ample evidence that the way corporations work in the real world is: wages are set by the market for labor, and anything the corporation is able to make over that stays with the corporation. In the real world, and especially since the corporate takeover since the 1980s, "trickle down" is a fraud. It doesn't happen.

 

So there's an adversarial relationship between workers and management, and between customers and corporation. Everybody wants to get more and to give less. It's just a fact of life, certainly here in the belly of late-model capitalism.

 

As I've already posted I don't think there's really "double dipping" going on, because NCL, like all modern mega-corporations, is too smart to let that happen. Their workers are not going to be receiving, ultimately, anything more than the market for labor dictates they get, except for slight fluctuations on the margin -- some companies ARE (marginally) better than others.

 

It's the price hike WITH THE STATED REASON that it's "for the workers" (or even more absurdly, for OUR convenience!) that is borderline infuriating. As somebody said, that's bovine feces! The workers will not be receiving anything like the full value of these recent increases. NCL will either just grab it, or more likely use various accounting tricks to shave corresponding amounts from worker base pay. My bet is their labor contracts have a variety of outs (call them "levers"?) that permit NCL to adjust pay.

 

Those who actually believe that workers will gain anything from this are deluded, polyannas, and wearing the rosiest of spectacles. The recent lay offs and firings provide a very significant clue as to how the new NCL management team intends to treat their workers.

 

Feel free to pay the DSC, the auto-grats, and any other charges NCL sees fit. Others, including myself, may well avail ourselves of our rights under the Contract to REDUCE the amount of money we pay the corporation, by adjusting DSC. DSC is NOT tipping. It's just a revenue stream to the corporation. Feel free to boost their bottom line. Or don't. The choice is yours, fully and completely.

 

It's either you or the corporation. Whose side are you on?

[hawkeyetlse]

Gotta love the black-and-white internet! This is best justification I've heard yet for removing the DSC: Late-model capitalism requires me to maintain an adversarial position with respect to the corporation and its workers!

[sjbdtz]

Great points. Not only are their hands out, but they also now feel entitled to these extra wages with no motivation to provide any level of service. Auto-gratuities reduce the quality of services because they have no concern about going above and beyond to get compensation. Service in the specialties (which was no different then the MDR) will now be even worse because they know that they have already earned their money by you simply showing up.

 

6&8

 

Gosh-darn it you're right....and the poor captain....we'd be lucky if we go anywhere at all. Every time he sticks out his hand, people just shake it.

 

And all of his extra wages are paid in advance in his pay-packet.

 

 

I'm betting he doesn't feel the need to do his job, at all.

 

 

Logic... go figure.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[sixesandeights]

Gosh-darn it you're right....and the poor captain....we'd be lucky if we go anywhere at all. Every time he sticks out his hand, people just shake it.

 

And all of his extra wages are paid in advance in his pay-packet.

 

 

I'm betting he doesn't feel the need to do his job, at all.

 

 

Logic... go figure.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

Was this supposed to be cleaver? Because its not. A salary job and a service job are entirely different things. You know what they say about sarcasm and wit right.....

 

6&8

[$hip$hape]

I don't think too many here would be that annoyed if NCL just jacked their prices, with the explanation that We just want to make more money from you. We understand that relationship -- they want to make more, we want to pay less. That's why we search for best possible prices, and come to CC to be the best possible educated consumers, to save money and get the best deal.

 

One could make the case that by denying NCL extra cash by not being sloppy consumers, we are "hurting" workers, because the more money NCL gets, the more likely some of it will trickle down to the workers. Some here have come pretty close to making this point, actually.

 

But most of us would reject this argument, because there's ample evidence that the way corporations work in the real world is: wages are set by the market for labor, and anything the corporation is able to make over that stays with the corporation. In the real world, and especially since the corporate takeover since the 1980s, "trickle down" is a fraud. It doesn't happen.

 

So there's an adversarial relationship between workers and management, and between customers and corporation. Everybody wants to get more and to give less. It's just a fact of life, certainly here in the belly of late-model capitalism.

 

As I've already posted I don't think there's really "double dipping" going on, because NCL, like all modern mega-corporations, is too smart to let that happen. Their workers are not going to be receiving, ultimately, anything more than the market for labor dictates they get, except for slight fluctuations on the margin -- some companies ARE (marginally) better than others.

 

It's the price hike WITH THE STATED REASON that it's "for the workers" (or even more absurdly, for OUR convenience!) that is borderline infuriating. As somebody said, that's bovine feces! The workers will not be receiving anything like the full value of these recent increases. NCL will either just grab it, or more likely use various accounting tricks to shave corresponding amounts from worker base pay. My bet is their labor contracts have a variety of outs (call them "levers"?) that permit NCL to adjust pay.

 

Those who actually believe that workers will gain anything from this are deluded, polyannas, and wearing the rosiest of spectacles.

The recent lay offs and firings provide a very significant clue as to how the new NCL management team intends to treat their workers.

 

Feel free to pay the DSC, the auto-grats, and any other charges NCL sees fit.

Others, including myself, may well avail ourselves of our rights under the Contract to REDUCE the amount of money we pay the corporation, by adjusting DSC.

DSC is NOT tipping. It's just a revenue stream to the corporation.

Feel free to boost their bottom line. Or don't. The choice is yours, fully and completely.

 

It's either you or the corporation. Whose side are you on?

Nice post. You have my attention.

[SissasMomE]

I don't think too many here would be that annoyed if NCL just jacked their prices, with the explanation that We just want to make more money from you. We understand that relationship -- they want to make more, we want to pay less. That's why we search for best possible prices, and come to CC to be the best possible educated consumers, to save money and get the best deal.

 

One could make the case that by denying NCL extra cash by not being sloppy consumers, we are "hurting" workers, because the more money NCL gets, the more likely some of it will trickle down to the workers. Some here have come pretty close to making this point, actually.

 

But most of us would reject this argument, because there's ample evidence that the way corporations work in the real world is: wages are set by the market for labor, and anything the corporation is able to make over that stays with the corporation. In the real world, and especially since the corporate takeover since the 1980s, "trickle down" is a fraud. It doesn't happen.

 

So there's an adversarial relationship between workers and management, and between customers and corporation. Everybody wants to get more and to give less. It's just a fact of life, certainly here in the belly of late-model capitalism.

 

As I've already posted I don't think there's really "double dipping" going on, because NCL, like all modern mega-corporations, is too smart to let that happen. Their workers are not going to be receiving, ultimately, anything more than the market for labor dictates they get, except for slight fluctuations on the margin -- some companies ARE (marginally) better than others.

 

It's the price hike WITH THE STATED REASON that it's "for the workers" (or even more absurdly, for OUR convenience!) that is borderline infuriating. As somebody said, that's bovine feces! The workers will not be receiving anything like the full value of these recent increases. NCL will either just grab it, or more likely use various accounting tricks to shave corresponding amounts from worker base pay. My bet is their labor contracts have a variety of outs (call them "levers"?) that permit NCL to adjust pay.

 

Those who actually believe that workers will gain anything from this are deluded, polyannas, and wearing the rosiest of spectacles. The recent lay offs and firings provide a very significant clue as to how the new NCL management team intends to treat their workers.

 

Feel free to pay the DSC, the auto-grats, and any other charges NCL sees fit. Others, including myself, may well avail ourselves of our rights under the Contract to REDUCE the amount of money we pay the corporation, by adjusting DSC. DSC is NOT tipping. It's just a revenue stream to the corporation. Feel free to boost their bottom line. Or don't. The choice is yours, fully and completely.

 

It's either you or the corporation. Whose side are you on?

 

Excellent post!