Auto Gratuity At Specialty Restaurant Implemented

[Winston Wolf]

It's clear you have nothing of value to add to the conversation in this thread, the other thread, or your other forum

 

Nicely done!

 

Ooooooohhhhhh burn.

 

You guys keep up the bickering. I'm going to go grab some popcorn.

[tumblew467]

I can't believe NCL is allowing this to continue like this. I would think they would want to clarify this at once ... unless, of course, they are double dipping. Then I can understand the silence.

 

Maybe because they are too busy laying off people, esp the VP of marketing

 

This was posted by ltjn (post #473)

Link to NCL Layoffs: http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news...workforce.html

 

a section from the article:

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings on Thursday laid off an unspecified number of employees in what is believed to be the first of two or more rounds of downsizing.

 

The cuts are understood to be across a range of areas such as administration, finance, operations, human resources and marketing. The job of at least one vp, AnneMarie Mathews, who led public relations, was eliminated. Mathews oversaw PR, corporate communications, newbuild launches including Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Breakaway and Norwegian Getaway, and other high-profile events.

 

Expectations of streamlining at NCLH have waged ever since Frank Del Rio became president and ceo in early January. Del Rio is known for running lean—and highly profitable—operations.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I can't believe NCL is allowing this to continue like this. I would think they would want to clarify this at once ... unless, of course, they are double dipping. Then I can understand the silence.

Someone posted earlier that they just laid off 200-300 people. Probably the same ones that post here and on FB.

 

FDR wants to run a lean mean machine. In other words, less customer service.

 

Bill

[DavyJoneses]

how can they force you to pay 18% when they say wait staff is included in the DSC? I always leave a tip in whatever restaurant I am eating at either MDR or Specialty so now do I stop leaving a tip? I am a bit confused about this.

 

Geri

 

Me too.

[Demonyte]

Makes one wonder if the DSC was raised to get people to prepay so fewer people can adjust onboard.

 

Prepaid DSC is not non-refundable - you can adjust that just as well as you can when paying DSC as-you-go.

[sixesandeights]

Me too.

 

You absolutely stop leaving cash or they will be getting you 3 times for the same service (DSC, Auto-grat, and the cash tip). As is they are getting you twice.

 

6&8

[SissasMomE]

Someone posted earlier that they just laid off 200-300 people. Probably the same ones that post here and on FB.

 

FDR wants to run a lean mean machine. In other words, less customer service.

 

Bill

 

That's sad.

[dna529]

No one can convince me that specialty waitstaff was not part of the dsc. I would think no one would want to work there. If they are being removed from the DSC, then the DSC should not have been raised. I think I can almost buy into this if they didn't raise the DSC before this new gratuity. If they ever do make the DSC not adjustable that's when I will cancel my cruise. Makes one wonder if the DSC was raised to get people to prepay so fewer people can adjust onboard.

 

Exactly. I normally would never prepay mine. But this time I did to get the cheaper rate.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Forums mobile app

[maywell]

Talking to you is useless. You keep saying the same crap over and over even when we don't know the real facts surrounding the new policy. Hint, don't respond to me and I won't respond to you.

 

If you want to be rude, what goes around comes around.

 

And NCL told another poster that the specialty restaurant servers are not included in the DSC - do you think this changed happened because of the new gratuity hmmmmm!!!!

Then NCL needs to update thier Terms of Service and FAQ to say that specialty waitstaff are no longer a part of DSC because the website clearly does not reflect it. And while at it, neither waitstaff (complimentary and specialty) should help out the other at their respective venues just like other cruise lines do with their staff (mdr stays in the mdr, steakhouse staff at the paid steakhouse, etc). Just matter of principle here...

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[BrPanthers99]

Ok so what is the verdict on everything so I don't need to read 500 posts?

[mking8288]

Silence on "alleged" double dipping - maybe, something about invoking the Fifth Amendment in the U.S. against self-incrimination. Except, wait - they aren't subject to U.S. laws, mostly. However, inject NCLA (Pride of America operating in U.S. waters and subject to HI laws, etc.) into these charges & allocations & IRS might come looking for an audit opportunity - this would be another interesting tail spin. I don' think any laws are broken, yet - but, it is - to me - not exactly best business practices and I will leave that to the ladies & gentlemen of this "quasi-trial jury" while I exercise my waiver to get out of that debate. Back on this track ...

 

I have as much faith in what one or two or three NCL telephone "sales" operator say, reading a script or via her/his supervisor on duty vs. what an unsigned post by a purported NCL spokesperson posted this morning - for all I care, the useraccount could've been hijacked or hacked -both have some/limited/partial/incomplete creditability insoafar as facts and proofs are concerned - it can be neither confirmed nor denied as untrue, and, isn't beyond undisputable "facts" as one is expected to subscribe to in the beliefs.

 

Meanwhile, with a diversified investment portfolio, (disclosure: including direct holdings with CCL as micro-minority shareholders) - I also read with interest about NCLH's latest round of downsizing (read = resignations) yesterday being reported, i.e. the job of one VP ... public relations, was eliminated. Better hold on to all your written & dated documentations and proofs for those perks, I have a stinky "feeling" that all these changes, modified terms and amendments, grandfathered clauses, etc. aren't quite over yet - and is just the tip of the icebergs ... I submit no proof nor plan to try, just my imagination running wild. If by chance more things happened ... I will proclaim, however, I've said so .... on this date :D and warned about it.

 

I will repeat what I mentioned earlier on a post, "What is good for Wall Street is NOT always good for Main Streets of the Americas ..." Enjoy those "freebies" while they last as there is no such thing as a free meal, someone is paying for it somehow, somewhere. If it looks good, eat it (where did I hear that ?) - meanwhile, see post #184 on this thread , done the "Norwegian way" - you just don't call in the police along with security, and in my careers, I've handed out quite a few brown envelopes & paper boxes, done in the best & kind way possible.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2173532&page=10

 

IGNORE LIST - feel free to use it

Edited March 20, 2015 by mking8288

[$hip$hape]

Ok so what is the verdict on everything so I don't need to read 500 posts?

Same here... I was about to ask for a summary.

[ColinIllinois]

"Tipping like a Norwegian"

 

 

[Out to sea!]

Good question. I would think you could draw a line through it, write the total in, and just sign.

 

That's what I plan on doing instead of a special trip to guest services but I'll ask BEFORE I sit down to eat in one of the specialty restaurants. I can always use my OBC for something other than specialty restaurants.

[sundercruiser]

I honestly don't think there's "double dipping" going on, in the sense that specialty wait staff are receiving both a share of DSC AND the 18 percent auto-gratuity for the same shift. I'm almost 100 percent certain that previously those who worked in specialties were part of DSC, now (apparently) they're not. As some have pointed out, that leaves significantly fewer workers taking part in the DSC during their shift -- this despite the recent increase in DSC. (That a worker gets DSC when they work in the buffet, but not when they work in a specialty, does not mean, to me, that there's "double dipping" going on.) I assume that NCL computers are adept enough to pay DSC for buffet work, but not for specialties, etc.

 

NCL simply isn't dumb enough to suddenly double what their workers receive, if/when they don't have to.

 

It is my OPINION that the recent auto-grat increases represent a significant revenue stream for NCL. It is my OPINION that NCL will be savvy enough to know that their workers are paid per the market rate for their labor -- that if NCL raises that portion of worker compensation provided by DSC and/or auto-grats, NCL will not only be able, but very anxious, to reduce that portion of worker compensation NOT paid through customer DSC or auto-grats. So even if NCL hews to the letter of the law and actually passes 100 percent of DSC and auto-grats through to the workers, there are numerous other ways for them to get that money back. And, they will.

 

One way or another, this extra money is NOT going to go the workers, some of whom may even find themselves receiving pink slips in the future, as we've already seen with the layoffs of office personnel.

 

My opinion, of course.

[hawkeyetlse]

They are being asked to tip twice for the same service.

That is the crux of the issue: We are not being asked to pay twice for the same service, we are being asked to pay an additional tip for an additional service. If you choose to eat at a specialty restaurant, you pay a cover charge, even though you have already paid for standard meals in your cruise fare. You are not paying for the same dinner twice. It's not double-dipping, it's addition. The cover charge, together with what you have already paid for a standard dinner in your cruise fare, adds up to the total cost of your specialty dinner.

 

The tips have now been brought in line with this principle. You have already paid for standard service through the DSC. But as of this week, if you choose to eat at a specialty restaurant, you are being asked to pay an additional tip for the extra service you receive there. You are not paying for the same service twice. The 18% specialty tip (applied only to the cover charge, not to the total cost of the meal), together with what you have already paid for standard dinner service in your DSC, adds up to the total gratuity for your specialty meal. It's not double-dipping, it's addition.

 

If you don't agree that the food in the specialty restaurants is worth an extra cover charge on top of what you have already paid in your cruise fare, don't go there. If you don't agree that the service in the specialty restaurants is worth an extra tip on top of what you have already paid through the DSC, don't go there. Or go there and refuse to tip.

 

I know that NCL always used to say that the DSC was enough to cover the service in specialty restaurants. Now they are saying that it's not enough. That's a bummer, but it's their call. They used to say that $12 per day was enough, now they are saying that it's not enough. Are they lying and just collecting more money to buy new ships and pay dividends to stockholders and not actually raising workers' wages? I don't think so, but I don't know any more than anyone else here (we are all very smart :p).

[sixesandeights]

That is the crux of the issue: We are not being asked to pay twice for the same service, we are being asked to pay an additional tip for an additional service. If you choose to eat at a specialty restaurant, you pay a cover charge, even though you have already paid for standard meals in your cruise fare. You are not paying for the same dinner twice. It's not double-dipping, it's addition. The cover charge, together with what you have already paid for a standard dinner in your cruise fare, adds up to the total cost of your specialty dinner.

 

The tips have now been brought in line with this principle. You have already paid for standard service through the DSC. But as of this week, if you choose to eat at a specialty restaurant, you are being asked to pay an additional tip for the extra service you receive there. You are not paying for the same service twice. The 18% specialty tip (applied only to the cover charge, not to the total cost of the meal), together with what you have already paid for standard dinner service in your DSC, adds up to the total gratuity for your specialty meal. It's not double-dipping, it's addition.

 

If you don't agree that the food in the specialty restaurants is worth an extra cover charge on top of what you have already paid in your cruise fare, don't go there. If you don't agree that the service in the specialty restaurants is worth an extra tip on top of what you have already paid through the DSC, don't go there. Or go there and refuse to tip.

 

I know that NCL always used to say that the DSC was enough to cover the service in specialty restaurants. Now they are saying that it's not enough. That's a bummer, but it's their call. They used to say that $12 per day was enough, now they are saying that it's not enough. Are they lying and just collecting more money to buy new ships and pay dividends to stockholders and not actually raising workers' wages? I don't think so, but I don't know any more than anyone else here (we are all very smart :p).

 

The service charge is for a higher quality meal, it is not double dipping because you are receiving something additional for the money. Taking tips from the DSC and tips from the auto-grat is most certainly double dipping.

 

 

I have got to know....what is this "Extra Service" I receive in the Specialties? The service there has never been outstanding. It is no different then the MDR. In fact they work less hard because they have fewer tables.

 

6&8

Edited March 20, 2015 by sixesandeights

[david_sobe]

I honestly don't think there's "double dipping" going on, in the sense that specialty wait staff are receiving both a share of DSC AND the 18 percent auto-gratuity for the same shift. I'm almost 100 percent certain that previously those who worked in specialties were part of DSC, now (apparently) they're not. As some have pointed out, that leaves significantly fewer workers taking part in the DSC during their shift -- this despite the recent increase in DSC. (That a worker gets DSC when they work in the buffet, but not when they work in a specialty, does not mean, to me, that there's "double dipping" going on.) I assume that NCL computers are adept enough to pay DSC for buffet work, but not for specialties, etc.

 

NCL simply isn't dumb enough to suddenly double what their workers receive, if/when they don't have to.

 

It is my OPINION that the recent auto-grat increases represent a significant revenue stream for NCL. It is my OPINION that NCL will be savvy enough to know that their workers are paid per the market rate for their labor -- that if NCL raises that portion of worker compensation provided by DSC and/or auto-grats, NCL will not only be able, but very anxious, to reduce that portion of worker compensation NOT paid through customer DSC or auto-grats. So even if NCL hews to the letter of the law and actually passes 100 percent of DSC and auto-grats through to the workers, there are numerous other ways for them to get that money back. And, they will.

 

One way or another, this extra money is NOT going to go the workers, some of whom may even find themselves receiving pink slips in the future, as we've already seen with the layoffs of office personnel.

 

My opinion, of course.

With all the respect in the world... I don't understand your post. If the specialty restaurant workers are getting both auto gratuity for services rendered and a portion of the 18%....how can you say that is not double dipping?

But that would be an ok scenario.

After this stunt I don't trust NCL at all. How can you charge one of the highest daily auto gratuities and say for years it goes to the staff working in restaurants and then charge another auto gratuity for eating at restaurants?

 

Its very unprofessional. And that is why other cruise lines would never even think to do this. Why not increase the auto-daily gratuity for everyone....geeze NCL just raised it. They also increased the prices of the specialty restaurants on top of increasing the auto gratuity. Its like taxing the tax IMHO.

 

Its all about principle. Its very low class. I NEVER thought I would say this but if I cruise again with NCL and eat at a specialty restaurant, I will tip in cash again for the service but I will go to the service desk to remove parts of the daily auto-gratuity. I do not trust NCL with making this bad and anti-customer decision. And I don't trust them to pay their workers with all these hidden fees.

 

Dear NCL;

For the first time ever, your press release or contribution to this board is laughable and not professional. Please name a land restaurant that charges customers an auto gratuity for eating at the restaurant and then charges another auto gratuity for eating at the restaurant? I doubt you will find any such land restaurant. Do you realize how foolish those comments are? I guess you think the customers and passengers are dumb.

Best regards

David_sobe

Gold Latitudes member (3 points away from platinum)

Edited March 20, 2015 by david_sobe

[BrPanthers99]

NCL should have just added a few dollars to each specialty restaurant......

[rochelle_s]

I have not defended the policy. I have said I have no issue with it and that no one know the facts, but all these loyal customers of NCL will vilify them before know 100 percent what is really happening. Do you know that the specialty restaurant servers are included in the DSC, before or since the change came into effect, if so, please show us some proof. Also, I now believe that some of the really disgruntled poster might be employed by a competitor of NCL....hasn't one cruise line been mentioned numerous times as the cruise line to go to????? Because would someone really be that upset about something that they have no idea what is really going on. And you haven't been on both threads complaining about it....hmmmmmm!

 

NCL has updated their website. If you go to this link answering questions about the service charge;

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

It clearly speaks about restaurant employees;

 

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff,[b/] stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

Here is a link to their answers about gratuities/tipping;

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#tipping

 

It clearly states it's position on extra tipping and outlines the positions not included in the DSC of which there is no mentione of the servers in the specialty restaurants;

 

 

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services, and all other ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services and 18% for beverage service.

 

 

 

To me that is proof that restaurant servers are indeed included in the DSC.

 

Proof that regular employees receive their fare share of the DSC or that bartenders benefit from all monies collected on all beverage service (now 18%) or that going forward all the 18% gratuity collected at specialty restaurants goes directly to those that serve in these locations would have to come from NCL directly as they would be the only one able to provide any kind of proof. Don't hold your breath waiting to see this because I doubt it will ever happen.

 

 

I voiced my suspicions earlier in this thread. NCL has come here and made an inadequate statement in response to all the comments, concerns and questions posted not only here but on other social media. The only reason they have given for the implementation of this gratuity is for "our convenience". I like many others call BS on this.

 

If all was well and good why not turn this into the promotional opportunity that it could be?

 

In the past three weeks the following has occurred:

 

• drink prices have increased 7%
  
• DSC has increased 8% from inside to mini suite cabin categories
  
• DSC has increased 25% for suites and Haven categories
  
• 18% service charge has been added to specialty dining
  

 

If everything is above board why is NCL not on these social media sites proclaiming the fact that corporate has only made a slight increase to their bottom line of 7% in drink prices? Where on the other hand all other increases have been made 100% for the benefit of their hard working and deserving employees. That any and all increases are because they very much value and feel that these employees deserve more in compensation for their services.

 

The service charge in the specialty restaurants is double dipping... plain and simple. NCL clearly states on their own website that restaurant personnel are covered under the DSC. A waiter is a waiter, regardless if they serve me in the MDR, O'Sheehan's, the buffet or a specialty restaurant. I am being served dinner in one location by staff whose basic services I have already covered with my DSC. If I feel that the service I have received in any of these locations goes above and beyond (or just because I want to) I am free to tip more, and at my discretion, regardless of what location I was served in.

 

I don't believe that 100% of these extra funds will be going to the people they are intended for. I don't even believe a decent portion of this will reach them. I believe they will be going into the corporate coffers.

 

I understand and agree that NCL is in the business to make money but if this is the way they are trying to add a little more to their bottom line or to pay any of their bills other than crew then this is wrong. These new charges do not fall within the IRS standards of being a 'tip'. Under IRS guidelines they are considered to be a service charge which as we all know is something different and is handled separately and that has already been paid. ( Great link posted by someone earlier; http://taxfoundation.org/blog/irs-crackdown-automatic-gratuities-takes-effect-january-1)

 

I have no problem with a business making increases to reflect rising costs ( increase in drink prices). I have no problem with employers giving their employees an increase in pay (increase in DSC). But in addition to these the increase and add on of auto gratuities all at the same time (within a three week period) just does not pass the smell test to me and that I have a problem with.

 

Is NCL corporate trying to slip this all through by playing with our heart strings? After all, the vast majority of these changes appear as if they benefit the hard working staff. If we complain we sound cheap or petty ...it's only a couple of bucks. But those couple of bucks do add up... that's why corporate has added them. If we take action by reducing or removing the DSC or auto grat who are we hurting but that hard working staff? These increases to DSC and gratuities have no transparency at all. We really do not know exactly how they are distributed, nor is it likely we will ever know. Perhaps this lack of transparency is exactly why the changes are being made here.

 

When a business makes changes and does not make any attempt to answer legitimate questions from their customers in regards to these changes then something is not right.

 

NCL is a company that not only follows social media but openly and actively participates in it. At every M & G I have attended on a NCL ship I have heard how they follow things here on Cruise Critic. Just this week there was a Q & A on Twitter. They have pages and follow others on the site where the book has a Face. But all we get here on CC and the other social media sites is a small blanket snippet of an announcement about this added gratuity. They follow all of this, they see the talk and still refuse to answer any questions. No attempt is made to set the record straight. If all was legitimate with this new added gratuity why not answer the questions?? As the saying goes silence does speak volumes.

 

In response to the few who do not understand all of this discussion over a couple of dollars or say that it is none of our business how the company pays their employees. Well, as many others have pointed out, it is a matter of principle and we should care. If I go into a department store and pay $200 for a dress, should I care if that dress was made in the back of a sweat shop in a third world country? Yes I should. If I am told that I am paying a certain dollar amount( DSC or auto gratuity) to cover the compensation to employees then that is where that money should be going. If I wish to reward or thank a specific someone with a gratuity (tip) then the amount and manner should be left up to me. Not a set amount established by a corporation and distributed at their discretion. All of the DSC and gratuities should 100% be for the compensation and benefit of the crew. If there is any question that this is not happening then again I should care. We as consumers should be responsible for not only how we spend our money but who is directly and indirectly effected by our choices.

 

 

Rochelle

[hawkeyetlse]

I have got to know....what is this "Extra Service" I receive in the Specialties? The service there has never been outstanding. It is no different then the MDR.

If that is your opinion, then (as I said above), you should refuse to pay the additional 18%, in whatever way you choose.

In fact they work less hard because they have fewer tables.

Therefore… they can give better service to the tables they do have. In theory, that is, but again, your opinion of the service is your opinion. No proof required.

[sundercruiser]

Rochelle, very well stated. Thank you.

[Out to sea!]

SINCE NO ONE KNOWS IF THE SPECIALTY RESTAURANT SERVERS WHERE EVER, WERE PARTIALLY INVOLVED OR STILL ARE PART OF THE DSC, I WILL WAIT FOR THE FACTS BEFORE TELLING PEOPLE THINGS THAT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE.

 

Not trying to shame anyone, but I feel that if one is so upset over this policy, it is best to discuss it and have the gratuity removed in the restaurant...that would make a bigger statement, now wouldn't it.

 

It's not a matter of being upset over the policy, it's a matter of being upset at paying for the same service twice. I've already decided on my upcoming last NCL cruise that I will tell the manager prior to the meal to either remove the 18% charge (since it has already been paid by the DSC) or I will not use the restaurant. It will be their choice but I refuse to pay twice for the same thing.

[NLH Arizona]

It's not a matter of being upset over the policy, it's a matter of being upset at paying for the same service twice. I've already decided on my upcoming last NCL cruise that I will tell the manager prior to the meal to either remove the 18% charge (since it has already been paid by the DSC) or I will not use the restaurant. It will be their choice but I refuse to pay twice for the same thing.

I certainly understand why folks are upset with regard to how this was rolled out. It was rolled out very badly. I for one, called NCL because I wanted some answers to some questions and they told me that the specialty restaurant servers are not included and that has been told to other posters who have posted it on here as well. And until I know differently, I will go with what they said.

 

I applauded you for deciding to tell the manager that you disagree with the 18% and that you paid it on your DSC. If you believe that the specialty restaurant servers are included in the DSC, I think this is the way to do it and will make a better statement than merely reducing the DSC.

[SJ]

No cruiseline can run without an effective crew. While it may hurt the service staff if people remove DSC in the shortrun, this is might be another way for Ncl to get the message when their staff leaves because they are not being paid adequately or can do better elsewhere. I am tire of being guilt into tipping people who should have a decent wage. As for its not our business how Ncl runs the company or how it pays its employees, it is our business when we are being asked to pay their employees salaries in addition to the cost of the product I already paid for.

 

I think it's business as usual for the staff and Ncl keeps the extra. Would anyone be surprised?