Auto Gratuity At Specialty Restaurant Implemented

[Gregor4500]

A European viewpoint here -

 

NCL's statement that this is standard practice in restaurants may be true for the US but is certainly not true for most of the rest of the world. For a company who are looking to expand to other areas they really have screwed up big-time.

 

I posted this earlier. But generally, Since Jan. 2014, this is no longer a practice in U.S. restaurants. Unless they call it a service charge. Because of this IRS ruling.http://taxfoundation.org/blog/irs-crackdown-automatic-gratuities-takes-effect-january-1

[hawkeyetlse]

Service by a wait staff is something rendered to all guests. It should not matter in which location I eat my dinner I have contributed to the DSC and this service is covered.

 

NCL took the opportunity here to identify the staff positions not included in the DSC and as you will note specialty restaurant staff is not listed.

 

You will also note that this is not old information waiting to be updated as it clearly states that there is 18% added to beverage service. This is very recent.

Not recent enough, because they only started updating their webpages to reflect this brand new 18% on specialty dining yesterday and today. The 18% on bar service is 3 weeks old. I hope that they will update this FAQ to include more of the transparency that you were talking about in your other post. I could argue the opposite of what you just said, that specialty dining service is not a service rendered to all guests, but only to those who pay for it. And while they list a few staff positions that are excluded from the DSC, they prefix the list with "e.g." meaning that there are others that are not listed.

 

I have no idea if the specialty staff are in the DSC or not as of today, and unlike many others, my acceptance of the new 18% tip on specialty dining really does not hinge on establishing this. But since it is clearly of great concern to many customers what the real answer is, I hope they will clarify the language when they get around to updating this page.

[SeaShark]

What I find the funniest is that the dyed -in the wool cheer staff has TURNED on the beloved NCL . Oh no!!!!!!

 

 

Perhaps that is nothing more than an indication that your attempt to broad-brush the behavior/opinions is more than a bit flawed.

 

 

Hard to justify calling people "cheer staff" when the rubber hits the road isn't it?

 

 

Yet, the haters NEVER seem to change their tune...;)

[luvtheships]

It amuses you? Boy your a cheap date lol

 

I always leave extra $$ in the MDR may not be as much as if I were in a land restaurant but I always leave something this is in addition to paying DSC ahead of time before I cruise. I also give my room steward and drink servers cash tips does that amuse you to?

 

I know you like to pick on my posts and that happens to amuse me too

 

And guess what? I have absolutely zero guilt about not leaving extra in the mdr!!! Now go figure. What a horrible thing that is

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[sjbdtz]

Rochelle, very well stated. Thank you.

 

I didn't see much new in Rochelle's post... but then I only read the highlighted portions and they seemed familiar already.

 

 

So here's my thought:

 

 

 

FDR isn't running NCL. Andy Stuart is.

 

 

So this talk about FDR wanting to run a tight ship would mean he's making executive decisions over Andy's head. That might explain why Marsden decided to go.

 

This might be indicative of a larger issue, though I hope not....I really enjoy sailing with NCL, and their stock has been quite good to me. But battling management levels is a bit disconcerting.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[Out to sea!]

After reading both hubris, vitriol, bullying,lies,damned lies, conjecture,

Pontificating and bloviating

 

One question:

If, as ya'll are claiming, your anger at NCL is because they were sneaky and not "transparent "...

Had they emailed every client with a reservation and informed us that they were adding this charge...would you still be complaining? Most of you say that you already tip more than 18% and it is the principle that counts.

 

Seriously- 100"bucks extra for a family of five and you are this upset? I don't buy the double dipping complaint if you claim to already tip, I don't buy the feigned concern over living wages for the crew and waitstaff.

 

Don't eat there if you don't want to pay. None of us knows the reasons this was instituted and nobody is going to change anyone's mind with their fifteenth -hand stories of people who KNOW that the tips are/ are not pooled, that DEFINATELY NCL is stealing this money to have parties for execs....

 

What I find the funniest is that the dyed -in the wool cheer staff has TURNED on the beloved NCL . Oh no!!!!!!

 

Want to give them a message? CANCEL ALL YOUR CRUISES.

Everyone says that this is IT- after your already- booked cruises, of course.!I will not go back to NCL...after next December...blah blah blah!

Make it so NOW!!!Cancel your cruise and go somewhere else or to another line. The only way to stick it to NCL is to take your business away from the,All of it.

 

Then you don't have to worry about sticking it to the crew by removing your DSC.

 

After my first post I was accused of being "another one who,doesn't get it".

 

Ummmm...I do get it. And if the policy of a company disturbed me so, I would not patronize them AT ALL.

 

This particular thing doesn't bother me.

 

Actually, if I didn't have 2 FCCs being used on my upcoming Alaska cruise in a few months and if HAL (who is the only other cruise line with a similar itinerary) wasn't almost double the price, I would cancel (and have actually looked into this hence how I know how much more HAL is). But due to many other things I just don't like on NCL, this upcoming cruise was going to be my last on NCL anyway......this is simply just another reason why Carnival is a much better cruise line (IMO) than NCL. Granted, on Carnival I have only visited a specialty restaurant twice in 8 cruises because the MDR is superb (IMO) and I had no need to pay extra for a specialty restaurant. With NCL, I do not feel the same. Maybe if NCL brought their standards in the MDR up to par with Carnival, people wouldn't feel the need to go to specialty restaurants so often and therefore wouldn't feel like they are getting gipped even more with this change.

[SeaShark]

Actually, if I didn't have 2 FCCs being used on my upcoming Alaska cruise in a few months and if HAL (who is the only other cruise line with a similar itinerary) wasn't almost double the price, I would cancel (and have actually looked into this hence how I know how much more HAL is). But due to many other things I just don't like on NCL, this upcoming cruise was going to be my last on NCL anyway......this is simply just another reason why Carnival is a much better cruise line (IMO) than NCL. Granted, on Carnival I have only visited a specialty restaurant twice in 8 cruises because the MDR is superb (IMO) and I had no need to pay extra for a specialty restaurant. With NCL, I do not feel the same. Maybe if NCL brought their standards in the MDR up to par with Carnival, people wouldn't feel the need to go to specialty restaurants so often and therefore wouldn't feel like they are getting gipped even more with this change.

 

Hardly a fair comparison....both cruiselines have MDRs, but the Norwegian Getaway probably has more specialty restaurants than you encountered on all eight of your Carnival cruises....combined.

[swedish weave]

So here's my thought:

 

 

 

FDR isn't running NCL. Andy Stuart is.

 

 

So this talk about FDR wanting to run a tight ship would mean he's making executive decisions over Andy's head. That might explain why Marsden decided to go.

 

This might be indicative of a larger issue, though I hope not....I really enjoy sailing with NCL, and their stock has been quite good to me. But battling management levels is a bit disconcerting.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

I would make a correction in the names you used. Replace the names Del Rio and Stuart with Genting and Apollo.

 

Some on these boards are so busy arguing that they are overlooking the job cutting that started yesterday and is continuing. (Reported on a few posts starting at 11.32 am PST on this thread) Post 473 I believe.

 

Maybe that is why the suggestion to call a manager or representative for information is not producing results. That could be one of the jobs that has been eliminated.

 

Quote _-----

 

Another possible reason for NCL limited response is the number of terminations yesterday and today within the shore staff. PR department was hit hard!

 

 

Link to NCL Layoffs: http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news...workforce.html

Edited March 20, 2015 by swedish weave
Added quote

[SteveH2508]

I didn't see much new in Rochelle's post... but then I only read the highlighted portions and they seemed familiar already.

 

 

So here's my thought:

 

 

 

FDR isn't running NCL. Andy Stuart is.

 

 

So this talk about FDR wanting to run a tight ship would mean he's making executive decisions over Andy's head. That might explain why Marsden decided to go.

 

This might be indicative of a larger issue, though I hope not....I really enjoy sailing with NCL, and their stock has been quite good to me. But battling management levels is a bit disconcerting.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

Whoever is calling the shots on this issue has lost the plot (if they ever had it in the first place:rolleyes:).

 

Kevin Sheehan spent years building up a better reputation for NCL - this recent set of changes has managed to undo that good work in one fell swoop.

 

NCL had a reputation for 'nickle and diming' (unfairly until recently IMHO). Now they have tagged themselves fair and square with that epithet and they may well reap what they have sown.

Edited March 20, 2015 by SteveH2508

[rochelle_s]

I see that it was update with regard to the 18 percent for beverage service, but where is it updated with regard to the 18 percent for specialty restaurants? Unless I missed it, it is not mentioned here, so I would assume that the website has not been updated to include the gratuity for the specialty restaurants.

 

Apparently you missed the first part of the quote that I had in bold. See below. They state that there is no required or recommended tip. But with this newly instituted auto gratuity at specialty restaurants it is most definitely required as it is automatically charged and they have set the amount.

 

All these new changes and increases have been instituted on or after March 1, 2015. This section of their website was updated in the last three weeks. Any changes occurring would have been known about it that time. They have made updates within the last 48 hours.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochelle_s View Post

What about Gratuities?

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services, and all other ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services and 18% for beverage service.

 

 

I don't doubt what you were told when you yourself called NCL. I'm sure a memo was received by everyone outlining what the corporate response should be to questions when asked of the front of the line folks on the phones. The corporate line is not always the truth. What they told you and what can realistically be true are not necessarily the same.

 

NCL is not employing wait staff to exclusively serve in specialty restaurants. They would have other duties throughout the day for which they would have to be included in the DSC in order to receive compensation. Also I have been in a specialty restaurant on many occasions and I can tell you that sometimes they are busy and sometimes they are almost empty. They do not keep the full staff in there if there are not enough guests to justify. They are not told they are done for the day. They are moved to another location on the ship that can use them, which more often than not will be a complimentary dining venue.

 

It is also not inconceivable on a certain night (Norwegian's Night Out perhaps) that in a specialty restaurant, such as Le Bistro, that the majority of guests dining there that evening are Platinum members using their certificate, CAS guests having their complimentary meal or people who received the UDP as part of a booking promo. How exactly are the servers supposed to be compensated on this evening? There is no 18% added in these cases. Are they just taking one for the team every time they serve one of these tables?

 

I understand you would like to see proof. But sometimes the only way to get to the truth is first to be suspicious and start asking questions. The amount of interest in these threads indicate that this latest change does not sit well with people. They have asked questions and are not receiving answers. Some people have called and asked for answers and what they are told is just not believable for reasons as I have mentioned above.

 

NCL, cannot on their website, try to present themselves as different from other cruise lines by saying one thing and doing the exact opposite. (see bold section above). Wait staff in specialty restaurants are not donating their time in the other venues throughout the day. They must be being compensated and the only way is through the DSC.

 

The introduction of the DSC was originally for the sake of the wait staff working under the free style concept. This was set up to guarantee that they were properly taken care of for their services. Rather than tip envelopes at the end of the cruise we would pay the DSC on our accounts and the corporation would see that it was distributed fairly to all deserving departments. Since its inception all wait staff have been covered with this form of compensation. I don't recall what the daily amount was when the DSC was introduced but I do know that over the years it has been raised in small increments in order for the crew to be adequately compensated. On March 1, 2015 we saw the latest increase. An increase of $0.95 per person per day in cabins from inside to mini- suite. A whopping $2.95 per person per day increase for the Haven and suite guests. Now, less than three weeks later, they would like us to believe that there is not enough money in the higher DSC to pay the servers in the specialty restaurants? Does this not raise questions with you? Why did they not just raise it a little more if that were the case?

 

I am not assuming anything or making this up. You have called and were told that the specialty wait staff are no longer included in the DSC. The precedence is that they always have been. The website tells me they are. The only realistic reason to have to change the way they are paid is because they can no longer afford to do so. But how is that possible when there was just an increase to the DSC?

 

Even in the corporate statement posted here on CC and on other social media sites the stated reason for the implementation of this auto gratuity was for our convenience.

 

• How is pulling the specialty dining staff out of the DSC convenient for me?
  
• How is an automatic 18% convenient to the guest who feels no need to tip more at a specialty restaurant?
  
• How is an automatic 18% convenient to a guest who tips according to service received?
  
• How is an automatic 18% added to a bill convenient to a guest who likes to personally tip someone?
  
• How is an automatic 18% added to a bill convenient to a guest who likes to be the one who decides how much and to whom their money goes to?
  

 

This was not done for the convenience of the guest. It was not done for the benefit of the crew (I'm sure they would have told us that). It was not a policy change with proper notification being given. This was done for the benefit of NCL. They cannot realistically remove specialty dining wait staff from the DSC as you were told. Which means they are collecting the DSC and the 18% in the restaurants and this is double dipping.

 

People don't like it when businesses try to pull a fast one and that is exactly what they are doing. I cannot provide you concrete proof on all fronts but I can form an opinion based on the all the information out there. From everything I have seen and read something ain't right. Not just in my mind but in many others. If NCL want to set the record straight then they should speak up. Nothing's stopping them...unless it's the truth!

 

 

Rochelle

[maywell]

After reading both hubris, vitriol, bullying,lies,damned lies, conjecture,

Pontificating and bloviating

 

One question:

If, as ya'll are claiming, your anger at NCL is because they were sneaky and not "transparent "...

Had they emailed every client with a reservation and informed us that they were adding this charge...would you still be complaining? Most of you say that you already tip more than 18% and it is the principle that counts.

 

Seriously- 100"bucks extra for a family of five and you are this upset? I don't buy the double dipping complaint if you claim to already tip, I don't buy the feigned concern over living wages for the crew and waitstaff.

 

Don't eat there if you don't want to pay. None of us knows the reasons this was instituted and nobody is going to change anyone's mind with their fifteenth -hand stories of people who KNOW that the tips are/ are not pooled, that DEFINATELY NCL is stealing this money to have parties for execs....

 

What I find the funniest is that the dyed -in the wool cheer staff has TURNED on the beloved NCL . Oh no!!!!!!

 

Want to give them a message? CANCEL ALL YOUR CRUISES.

Everyone says that this is IT- after your already- booked cruises, of course.!I will not go back to NCL...after next December...blah blah blah!

Make it so NOW!!!Cancel your cruise and go somewhere else or to another line. The only way to stick it to NCL is to take your business away from the,All of it.

 

Then you don't have to worry about sticking it to the crew by removing your DSC.

 

After my first post I was accused of being "another one who,doesn't get it".

 

Ummmm...I do get it. And if the policy of a company disturbed me so, I would not patronize them AT ALL.

 

This particular thing doesn't bother me.

 

Here's the thing about the DSC and specialty restaurants- They're already paid by it, so when the specialty waitstaff helps out at the MDR they've been covered by the DSC and vice versa if MDR waitstaff helps out at an specialty restaurant. This has been documented and noted by numerous cruisers regarding that.

 

The DSC also covers when the waitstaff is doing very poor servicing tables because honestly who going to reduce the daily service charge over one or 2 not-performing-well waiters, that would also effect the buffet/ room steward who did nothing wrong. So a poorly performing waiter in specialty restaurant is getting DSC AND an automatic 18%tip just for working in the Le Bistro and it appears that I can't take if off because its mandatory now over the better performing MDR waiter whose just getting DSC? Even if NCL claimed the 18% was not going to that low performing waiter, what if the food was poorly done and I want to tip according? There lies part of the problem with the automatic 18% - if the food and/or service was poorly handled, why should tip on top of the cover charge let alone the DSC that supposedly covers all waitstaff (complimentary and specialty). Mind you the barstaff is not cover by DSC but by the automatic 18% tip added to the drinks - maybe the specialty waitstaff need set up the same way since getting an automatic 18% and be removed from the DSC while also need to setup their service skills.

 

 

I can't speak for others regarding canceling cruise reservations because it can be various reason such too last-minute to rebook another one - But for me, if NCL doesn't clarify and fix this problem, I will gladly take my money elsewhere since my scheduled trip is later in November and should have plenty of time to get my cruise refund before the September payment deadline. NCL mess up big time with this one - So yes, they need to get their act together over there because it is a blatant case of double tipping (and in some cases for nothing due to service being bad).

[NLH Arizona]

Apparently you missed the first part of the quote that I had in bold. See below. They state that there is no required or recommended tip. But with this newly instituted auto gratuity at specialty restaurants it is most definitely required as it is automatically charged and they have set the amount.

 

All these new changes and increases have been instituted on or after March 1, 2015. This section of their website was updated in the last three weeks. Any changes occurring would have been known about it that time. They have made updates within the last 48 hours.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochelle_s View Post

What about Gratuities?

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services, and all other ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services and 18% for beverage service.

 

 

I don't doubt what you were told when you yourself called NCL. I'm sure a memo was received by everyone outlining what the corporate response should be to questions when asked of the front of the line folks on the phones. The corporate line is not always the truth. What they told you and what can realistically be true are not necessarily the same.

 

NCL is not employing wait staff to exclusively serve in specialty restaurants. They would have other duties throughout the day for which they would have to be included in the DSC in order to receive compensation. Also I have been in a specialty restaurant on many occasions and I can tell you that sometimes they are busy and sometimes they are almost empty. They do not keep the full staff in there if there are not enough guests to justify. They are not told they are done for the day. They are moved to another location on the ship that can use them, which more often than not will be a complimentary dining venue.

 

It is also not inconceivable on a certain night (Norwegian's Night Out perhaps) that in a specialty restaurant, such as Le Bistro, that the majority of guests dining there that evening are Platinum members using their certificate, CAS guests having their complimentary meal or people who received the UDP as part of a booking promo. How exactly are the servers supposed to be compensated on this evening? There is no 18% added in these cases. Are they just taking one for the team every time they serve one of these tables?

 

I understand you would like to see proof. But sometimes the only way to get to the truth is first to be suspicious and start asking questions. The amount of interest in these threads indicate that this latest change does not sit well with people. They have asked questions and are not receiving answers. Some people have called and asked for answers and what they are told is just not believable for reasons as I have mentioned above.

 

NCL, cannot on their website, try to present themselves as different from other cruise lines by saying one thing and doing the exact opposite. (see bold section above). Wait staff in specialty restaurants are not donating their time in the other venues throughout the day. They must be being compensated and the only way is through the DSC.

 

The introduction of the DSC was originally for the sake of the wait staff working under the free style concept. This was set up to guarantee that they were properly taken care of for their services. Rather than tip envelopes at the end of the cruise we would pay the DSC on our accounts and the corporation would see that it was distributed fairly to all deserving departments. Since its inception all wait staff have been covered with this form of compensation. I don't recall what the daily amount was when the DSC was introduced but I do know that over the years it has been raised in small increments in order for the crew to be adequately compensated. On March 1, 2015 we saw the latest increase. An increase of $0.95 per person per day in cabins from inside to mini- suite. A whopping $2.95 per person per day increase for the Haven and suite guests. Now, less than three weeks later, they would like us to believe that there is not enough money in the higher DSC to pay the servers in the specialty restaurants? Does this not raise questions with you? Why did they not just raise it a little more if that were the case?

 

I am not assuming anything or making this up. You have called and were told that the specialty wait staff are no longer included in the DSC. The precedence is that they always have been. The website tells me they are. The only realistic reason to have to change the way they are paid is because they can no longer afford to do so. But how is that possible when there was just an increase to the DSC?

 

Even in the corporate statement posted here on CC and on other social media sites the stated reason for the implementation of this auto gratuity was for our convenience.

 

• How is pulling the specialty dining staff out of the DSC convenient for me?
  
• How is an automatic 18% convenient to the guest who feels no need to tip more at a specialty restaurant?
  
• How is an automatic 18% convenient to a guest who tips according to service received?
  
• How is an automatic 18% added to a bill convenient to a guest who likes to personally tip someone?
  
• How is an automatic 18% added to a bill convenient to a guest who likes to be the one who decides how much and to whom their money goes to?
  

 

This was not done for the convenience of the guest. It was not done for the benefit of the crew (I'm sure they would have told us that). It was not a policy change with proper notification being given. This was done for the benefit of NCL. They cannot realistically remove specialty dining wait staff from the DSC as you were told. Which means they are collecting the DSC and the 18% in the restaurants and this is double dipping.

 

People don't like it when businesses try to pull a fast one and that is exactly what they are doing. I cannot provide you concrete proof on all fronts but I can form an opinion based on the all the information out there. From everything I have seen and read something ain't right. Not just in my mind but in many others. If NCL want to set the record straight then they should speak up. Nothing's stopping them...unless it's the truth!

 

 

Rochelle

I didn't miss anything. The website is not updated; they have updated it to reflect the upgraded 18% beverage tip. Also, the servers in the specialty restaurants don't service all guests (I know at Cagney's/Moderno, I had the same servers for breakfast, lunch and dinner). Where does it say anything about the 18% gratuity for the servers on their website; wouldn't you think it would be on their like the 18% for bar servers....I don't see it, thus I can only surmise that their website is not updated and I will wait for that. Even though I don't think most will even believe NCL, because some just think they are out to get them

 

I would assume that the servers in the specialty restaurants might be given additional duties, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will be serving and if they are serving (doesn't mean they are participants in the DSC), if one thinks about it, they will make much more just getting the tips from the specialty restaurants, than they would being part of the DSC. If a server in the cheapest of the restaurants (which I think is $15), just has only three guests in an evening, they would get $8.10, which is far more than what they would get from a server's share of the $12.95. If NCL is anything like other cruise lines, servers get between $3.50 to $4.00 from their auto service charge/gratuities. And if they have a bad night, it will all balance out. I'm sure NCL put the pen to all this and wouldn't have done it, if the servers would get less than what they got before.

 

You are actually correct, I don't think it was really done for the convenience of the passenger, but to insure that the specialty restaurant servers are taken care of, because I would guess that the majority of the diners didn't leave any tips and I think that is why some are hot and bothered with this. If I remember correctly, under the terms of the UDP, it use to say that tips were not included.

 

And I can only tell you what NCL told me and I can only form an opinion based on what I know and see. I'm not trying to change your mind, just as you are not going to change mine. We can just agree to disagree on this subject.

 

When NCL explains the charge and updates their, we can have another discussion, but until then I'll continue to think my way and you will continue to think your way.

 

I would guess with all the layoffs, they are probably in a tizzy and it will take them a couple days to answer any questions or make the appropriate changes on their website.

Edited March 20, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[LMaxwell]

If a cruise line charges ME twice for service that is double dipping. Easy to understand

[LMaxwell]

It's not a matter of being upset over the policy, it's a matter of being upset at paying for the same service twice. I've already decided on my upcoming last NCL cruise that I will tell the manager prior to the meal to either remove the 18% charge (since it has already been paid by the DSC) or I will not use the restaurant. It will be their choice but I refuse to pay twice for the same thing.

You and i, for once, see precisely eye to eye

[maywell]

I didn't miss anything. The website is not updated; they have updated it to reflect the upgraded 18% beverage tip. Also, the servers in the specialty restaurants don't service all guests (I know at Cagney's/Moderno, I had the same servers for breakfast, lunch and dinner). Where does it say anything about the 18% gratuity for the servers on their website; wouldn't you think it would be on their like the 18% for bar servers....I don't see it, thus I can only surmise that their website is not updated and I will wait for that. Even though I don't think most will even believe NCL, because some just think they are out to get them

 

I would assume that the servers in the specialty restaurants might be given additional duties, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will be serving and if they are serving (doesn't mean they are participants in the DSC), if one thinks about it, they will make much more just getting the tips from the specialty restaurants, than they would being part of the DSC. If a server in the cheapest of the restaurants (which I think is $15), just has only three guests in an evening, they would get $8.10, which is far more than what they would get from a server's share of the $12.95. If NCL is anything like other cruise lines, servers get between $3.50 to $4.00 from their auto service charge/gratuities. And if they have a bad night, it will all balance out. I'm sure NCL put the pen to all this and wouldn't have done it, if the servers would get less than what they got before.

 

You are actually correct, I don't think it was really done for the convenience of the passenger, but to insure that the specialty restaurant servers are taken care of, because I would guess that the majority of the diners didn't leave any tips and I think that is why some are hot and bothered with this.

 

And I can only tell you what NCL told me and I can only form an opinion based on what I know and see. I'm not trying to change your mind, just as you are not going to change mine. We can just agree to disagree on this subject.

 

When NCL explains the charge and updates their, we can have another discussion, but until then I'll continue to think my way and you will continue to think your way.

 

I would guess with all the layoffs, they are probably in a tizzy and it will take them a couple days to answer any questions or make the appropriate changes on their website.

 

Here's the thing, if the waiter at specialty restaurant is performing badly, they're already cover by DSC before the change. But now if they are doing poorly, they get the DSC AND the automatic 18%, instead just the DSC only. And that's the heart of principle of why people are upset because its a double dip - Who cares what amount they are getting from DSC, the fact is they are getting that plus automatic 18% while the MDR is just getting complimentary staff (MDR, Buffet) are only getting DSC.

 

Before you say that the specialty waitstaff are not, you're getting your info from NCL customer rep who are know to have invalid and/or not up-to-date information. Til couple of people that are currently on cruises while this is effect, confirm that those waitstaff have been removed from DSC - its pretty much speculation. Look what it took for NCL to respond regarding the 18% automatic here - A photo of a daily with the language; and even then they got the date wrong of when the policy went into effect - March 20 when it was actually March 15th. So you have to excuse me while I'm bet peeve off at how NCL handle this debacle- which was badly.

[NLH Arizona]

So you have to excuse me while I'm bet peeve off at how NCL handle this debacle- which was badly.

 

As I have said before, I too think it was handled badly and you have every right to be peeved at that. They should have sent out a press release with the detailed changes.

[Out to sea!]

Hardly a fair comparison....both cruiselines have MDRs, but the Norwegian Getaway probably has more specialty restaurants than you encountered on all eight of your Carnival cruises....combined.

 

That's the thing. I don't really care much to pay for something I've already paid for (the food) so I'd rather not feel compelled to go to specialty restaurants. On Carnival the MDR is very good and I don't feel compelled (which is what I was comparing, the differences between the MDRs). On the Epic, the service in both MDRs was absolutely horrible and the food only fair (which is what compelled me to try the specialty restaurants). On the Sun, the food wasn't any better but at least I found a good waitress and made sure I got to one of her tables every evening. So comparing MDR to MDR, Carnival wins hands down without hardly even trying. If NCL put more effort into their MDRs they wouldn't have a need for so many specialty restaurants.

[rochelle_s]

I didn't miss anything. The website is not updated; they have updated it to reflect the upgraded 18% beverage tip. Also, the servers in the specialty restaurants don't service all guests (I know at Cagney's/Moderno, I had the same servers for breakfast, lunch and dinner). Where does it say anything about the 18% gratuity for the servers on their website; wouldn't you think it would be on their like the 18% for bar servers....I don't see it, thus I can only surmise that their website is not updated and I will wait for that. Even though I don't think most will even believe NCL, because some just think they are out to get them

 

I would assume that the servers in the specialty restaurants might be given additional duties, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will be serving and if they are serving (doesn't mean they are participants in the DSC), if one thinks about it, they will make much more just getting the tips from the specialty restaurants, than they would being part of the DSC. If a server in the cheapest of the restaurants (which I think is $15), just has only three guests in an evening, they would get $8.10, which is far more than what they would get from a server's share of the $12.95. If NCL is anything like other cruise lines, servers get between $3.50 to $4.00 from their auto service charge/gratuities. And if they have a bad night, it will all balance out. I'm sure NCL put the pen to all this and wouldn't have done it, if the servers would get less than what they got before.

 

You are actually correct, I don't think it was really done for the convenience of the passenger, but to insure that the specialty restaurant servers are taken care of, because I would guess that the majority of the diners didn't leave any tips and I think that is why some are hot and bothered with this. If I remember correctly, under the terms of the UDP, it use to say that tips were not included.

 

And I can only tell you what NCL told me and I can only form an opinion based on what I know and see. I'm not trying to change your mind, just as you are not going to change mine. We can just agree to disagree on this subject.

 

When NCL explains the charge and updates their, we can have another discussion, but until then I'll continue to think my way and you will continue to think your way.

 

I would guess with all the layoffs, they are probably in a tizzy and it will take them a couple days to answer any questions or make the appropriate changes on their website.

 

 

 

Here's a link to the website;

 

https://www.ncl.com/terms/shorex-dining-entertainment-spa#dining

 

Here is a relevant section;

 

Ultimate Dining Package

The Ultimate Dining Package is available via pre-sell or onboard purchase on days 1 and 2 of the voyage only. On 3 day sailings the package is only for sale on day 1. No refunds are available if fewer restaurants are visited. The UDP is nontransferable. Reservations are not required however table availability will be guaranteed for UDP guests with 24 hour advance reservations. An 18% gratuity will be added to the package purchase. A 20% Discount applies on a la carte priced restaurants and Ocean Blue. The UDP does not include beverages or corresponding gratuity. No Kids pricing available for UDP. Excludes all 1 and 2 day sailings. Includes add-ons in Le Bistro such as Fruit de Mer, Lobster and Cote De Boeuf. Does not apply to Special Occasion Menus e.g. New Year¹s, Christmas, etc. Platinum Guests will receive a $20 discount on the UDP (as they receive 1 complimentary dinner in Le Bistro). Additional main courses in Cagney¹s and Le Bistro will be charged at $10.00. Spiegel tent/Illusionarium is standard seating (a $29.99 value) available on Day 1 only. Chef¹s Table, Jazz Brunch, Carlo¹s Bakery items, Ice Cream Bar and Gelato are not part of the package

 

I highlighted. This is for the package. Someone has previously posted that when they went to do a mock booking for a dinner it added the gratuity. I just went to my next cruise and did a mock booking. This is how it displayed in my cart;

 

Date Port of Call Product Product Type Time Guest/Party Name Price Reservation Status

Monday

05/11/2015 ON BOARD CAGNEY'S PARTY OF 1 DINING 09:30 pm Rochelle S**** $ 35.40

 

So yes the website has been updated.

 

 

Rochellle

Edited March 21, 2015 by rochelle_s

[hawkeyetlse]

They are in the process of updating the website. There are several individual pages that need modifying. The one you just quoted has been updated. The one you quoted earlier has not been updated yet. This is unfortunate, and unprofessional, since the changes have gone into effect, and the entire website should have been brought up to date by now. But just as we have gotten used to receiving misinformation from the NCL phone reps, there are cases where errors and obsolete information have remained on the website for a long time.

[rpb718]

All this reminded me of the recent article on FDR where he was looking to try to get an extra $50 from cruisers. Well played FDR, well played.

[NLH Arizona]

Here's a link to the website;

 

https://www.ncl.com/terms/shorex-dining-entertainment-spa#dining

 

Here is a relevant section;

 

Ultimate Dining Package

The Ultimate Dining Package is available via pre-sell or onboard purchase on days 1 and 2 of the voyage only. On 3 day sailings the package is only for sale on day 1. No refunds are available if fewer restaurants are visited. The UDP is nontransferable. Reservations are not required however table availability will be guaranteed for UDP guests with 24 hour advance reservations. An 18% gratuity will be added to the package purchase. A 20% Discount applies on a la carte priced restaurants and Ocean Blue. The UDP does not include beverages or corresponding gratuity. No Kids pricing available for UDP. Excludes all 1 and 2 day sailings. Includes add-ons in Le Bistro such as Fruit de Mer, Lobster and Cote De Boeuf. Does not apply to Special Occasion Menus e.g. New Year¹s, Christmas, etc. Platinum Guests will receive a $20 discount on the UDP (as they receive 1 complimentary dinner in Le Bistro). Additional main courses in Cagney¹s and Le Bistro will be charged at $10.00. Spiegel tent/Illusionarium is standard seating (a $29.99 value) available on Day 1 only. Chef¹s Table, Jazz Brunch, Carlo¹s Bakery items, Ice Cream Bar and Gelato are not part of the package

 

I highlighted. This is for the package. Someone has previously posted that when they went to do a mock booking for a dinner it added the gratuity. I just went to my next cruise and did a mock booking. This is how it displayed in my cart;

 

Date Port of Call Product Product Type Time Guest/Party Name Price Reservation Status

Monday

05/11/2015 ON BOARD CAGNEY'S PARTY OF 1 DINING 09:30 pm Rochelle S**** $ 35.40

 

So yes the website has been updated.

 

 

Rochellle

Rochelle, I understand that that part of the website was updated, but the gratuities part of the website has not been updated, otherwise it would show the gratuities for the specialty restaurant servers, which it clearly doesn't. On the gratuities section, there is no mention of the specialty restaurant gratuity, but there is for the bar servers, which the increase was done prior to adding the gratuity for the servers. And when that is updated, along with the DSC (if applicable), it will hopefully give one a clear picture of what is going on. I'm certainly not disputing that they have updated the UDP section of the website.

 

Again, we will have to agree to disagree until we get some clarification from NCL on this.

[hpecorari]

Rochelle, I understand that that part of the website was updated, but the gratuities part of the website has not been updated, otherwise it would show the gratuities for the specialty restaurant servers, which it clearly doesn't. On the gratuities section, there is no mention of the specialty restaurant gratuity, but there is for the bar servers, which the increase was done prior to adding the gratuity for the servers.

 

Ohhh, I don't know about that. As of yesterday morning, I believe, the bar gratuity was still showing 15%. That's why I believe it's been updated.

 

Harriet

[david_sobe]

Or what if you purchased the UBP and paid the gratuity with the package. Imagine ordering a drink and finding they charge you for ANOTHER gratuity.

 

This is wrong period.

 

Nothing in life is fair. But there is right and wrong. And what NCL is doing is definitely wrong. Their official response is laughable and pathetic. And it is so because they are defending the indefensible. There are no land restaurants that charge customers an 18% auto gratuity based on a cover charge and then charge an auto daily gratuity on top of the gratuity.

 

A family of 4 would pay almost $80 in gratuity in one day if they would have a dinner at Cagneys. $80 is what some would pay the butler or concierge for an entire week of work and those employees are not in the tip pool.

 

But I am getting distracted with nonsense because that is not the point. I could say since 2009 I have seen the quality decline in the specialty restaurants while the price increases. I could say NCL just increased the daily auto gratuity. That too is a distraction. I could say NCL just raised the price of the specialty restaurants and say the gratuity was included in the cover charge. That too is a distraction. Companies and corporations are always looking for ways to maximum profit. This is a dirty and sleazy way to sneak money from customers under the name of gratuity.

 

NCL has been a pioneer in cruising. They have lots of firsts. But this is a new first that assumes the customer is dumb and stupid and can be taken advantage of.

 

Some will defend NCL no matter what. About 20% of this board would clap their hands if NCL said you must hop on one foot the entire cruise. They will defend NCL no matter what. But even this decision has the usual cheerleaders shying away from such a low life move.

[maywell]

All this reminded me of the recent article on FDR where he was looking to try to get an extra $50 from cruisers. Well played FDR, well played.

 

Here I posted it earlier this morning, I called it out yesterday:

 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-27/norwegian-needs-you-to-spend-just-4-more-per-day-on-your-cruise

[rochelle_s]

I would assume that the servers in the specialty restaurants might be given additional duties, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will be serving and if they are serving (doesn't mean they are participants in the DSC), if one thinks about it, they will make much more just getting the tips from the specialty restaurants, than they would being part of the DSC. If a server in the cheapest of the restaurants (which I think is $15), just has only three guests in an evening, they would get $8.10, which is far more than what they would get from a server's share of the $12.95. If NCL is anything like other cruise lines, servers get between $3.50 to $4.00 from their auto service charge/gratuities. And if they have a bad night, it will all balance out. I'm sure NCL put the pen to all this and wouldn't have done it, if the servers would get less than what they got before.

 

 

Just for fun I ran some numbers to compare with yours. I have erred on your side of the arguments favour on every account. I am using the Getaway sailing at full capacity. Every suite or Haven cabin only has two guests. Sixty-five percent of the crew are included in the DSC. I have based this on 6 specialty restaurants (excluding the a la carte venues and Ocean Blue). Ten percent of the guests eat in the specialty restaurants. Forty percent of those guests are eating because of a promotion, Platinum or CAS.

 

DSC for 4028 guests:

• 3340 @ $12.95 = $43,253.00 reg cabins
  
• 688 @ $14.95 = $10,285.60 suites and havens
  
• Total DSC per day =$53, 538.60
  

 

There is 1640 crew on the ship. 35% (574) are excluded from the DSC (Officers, Bartenders, Spa, Fitness, Entertainment, Kid's Club, Casino, Shops, Engineers etc -- oh and those specialty restaurant servers). That leaves 1066 people to share in the DSC.

 

There are 403 guests in the specialty restaurants each night ( 10%). So 40% percent (161) are not charged the auto gratuity because they are not paying personally paying for their meal. That leaves 242 paying 18% each. The average charge for the 6 main specialty restaurants is $20.83 per head. The average auto gratuity is $3.75 x the 242 guests leaves us with $907.50

 

A conservative figure of 6 servers per specialty restaurant (6x6) means 36 people share the $907.50. This gives each server a grand total of $25.21

 

The DSC is $53, 538.60 per day. We will take 10% off the top ($5,353.86) for the crew welfare fund leaving us with $48,184.74 to be split among the 1066 crew entitled. They would each receive $45.20.

 

Now if it were me working as a waiter on a cruise ship my choice would be to stick with the DSC. Even though 10% is skimmed off the top for welfare fund and parties (boy, they must be good with that kinda cash), I would still be making almost twice as much as a waiter in a specialty restaurant. That's before we take into consideration that I divided the DSC evenly among everyone and we know that is not how it works. Waiters are among the top end of that food chain so would be entitled to a greater share.

 

Your math was a little off when you said the amount a regular server gets is $3.50-4.00. Which was true in the past and on other lines, and could still be true on NCL. What you forgot to factor in is that is per person per day, not just per day. That would equate to $14,098 (4028 passengers x $3.50) per day. Even if there were 200 wait staff serving the complementary restaurants, they would each be making $70.49 each. Now even more I would not want to be a waiter in a specialty restaurant.

 

If they are only being paid by the 18%, as they are telling people over the phone, then the specialty waiter position is a demotion and I can not imagine anyone willing working there. You can be sure the best wait staff on the ship will be working in other venues.

 

 

 

Rochelle