UDP Getting charged for add ones on Gem

[SailorSam42]

[quote name='abe3']If you believe they are out to screw you then why cruise with them? [/QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct. The ultimate option is to simply vote with your feet and cruise with another operator.

[abe3]

[quote name='njhorseman']Your contract does not guarantee it. It makes no reference to the terms and conditions of the UDP being incorporated in the contract. In fact, the contract specifically supersedes and excludes any prior representations including anything stated in their advertising and promotional material. You can read the applicable contractual provision here:

[url]http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf[/url]


[B]
2. The Contract: The Guest agrees that this Contract governs the relationship between the Guest and the Carrier, regardless of the Guest's age, whether the Guest purchased the ticket on his or her own behalf, and/or whether the ticket has been held and/or presented by another person on behalf of the Guest. [COLOR="Red"]The Guest agrees that, except as expressly provided herein, this Contract constitutes the entire agreement between the Guest and Carrier, and shall supersede and exclude any prior representations that may have been made in relation to the cruise to the Guest or anyone representing him/her by anyone, including but not limited to anything stated in the Carrier's brochures, advertisements, and other promotional materials, by Norwegian Cruise Line or NCL America employees or by third persons such as travel agents.[/COLOR] In the event of a direct conflict between a provision of this Contract and a provision of the Cruise Industry Passenger Bill of Rights (PBOR) in effect at the time of booking, the PBOR controls. No person other than the person(s) named in the Ticket Contract can use the Ticket Contract without the express written agreement of the Carrier. This Contract is only valid for the cruise specified in the accompanying ticket. The terms herein shall be binding upon payment of the cruise fare by the Guest and Guest accepts and agrees to the terms upon presenting this Contract to the Carrier for boarding even if no payment of the cruise fare has been made. The rights, defenses, immunities and limitations of liability set forth herein shall inure to the benefit of the Carrier and all concessionaires, independent contractors or other service providers; and affiliated or related companies, parents, subsidiaries, successors, assigns or fictitiously named entities; all suppliers, shipbuilders, component part manufacturers; and its or their owners, operators, managers, charterers, agents, pilots, officers, crew and employees. [/B][/QUOTE]


This is absolutely correct. Terms of the UDP can be changed anytime with NCL.

[abe3]

[quote name='3kidsncats']If you look at that link MtreJ posted, at the 2nd question in the FAQ "What is Included in the Ultimate Dining Program" you can see that the answer lists a variety of restaurants by type, not name. Asian, French, Italian, etc. And includes "Signature Steakhouse Restaurant" -aka Cagneys. I'm sure some are saying, "but the FAQ is not the contract", but in a contract of adhesion, all communication from the seller (entity that drafts the terms) that helps to explain the terms to the lay person (consumer) are considered part of the contract, because a lay person is expected to need clear English explaining the legal jargon. If the consumer reasonably is led to expect a certain consideration (legal jargon for a benefit, in this case any food item on the menu from the restaurant types listed) then it is part of the understanding (terms) of the contract.







Thank you -- believe me, I will enjoy every bite![/QUOTE]


The FAQ of the UDP is not the actual contract between you and NCL

[hawkeyetlse]

[quote name='ighten']Whilst some of the back and forth arguments about T&C are correct (some are not) your forgetting one simple thing.. Most companies rely on the addendum/closing clause "we reserve the right to change blah blah" for one simple reason.[/quote]I agree with you, but there is no such clause in the T&Cs of the dining packages, is there?

[abe3]

[quote name='missintuitive']I am cruising with them bc I made MY final payment and can not get the money back that I paid for the trip! NCL is not MUCH cheaper than other cruise lines. You must don't shop around much. Most of the major lines are in the same ball park. Moreover, I'm paying more to cruise NCL for seven days than I paid Disney last year. So put that in your pipe. NCL offered and marketed the perks to stimulate new business. They are more concerned with marketing than customer service. This has been demonstrated several times this year. Since I am being held to my part of the deal with non-refundable money at this point, I expect NCL to hold on to their part of the deal. And it will cause ME ill will to be taken advantage of with no way for me to countermeasure their actions.

If your argument is always why do you cruise NCL, you still miss the point. Sad indeed. And if it doesn't both you then why engage in the conversation. It's no skin off your back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


Don't need to put anything in my pipe. I have paid less on my next cruise then I have in the past for the same category and have received far more promotion items like the UDP, UBP, and onboard credit. I have shopped other cruise lines and have always had better offers from NCL. Others might have gotten better deals from other lines and that's great

[abe3]

[quote name='SailorSam42']You are absolutely correct. The ultimate option is to simply vote with your feet and cruise with another operator.[/QUOTE]


Yea that is the ultimate option and the most powerful, but I am pretty sure they will still fill their ships.

[watchdiva]

Thrilled with the pricing/perks for our next 3 cruises and certainly not going to switch cruise lines over changes to DSC, UDP or UBP from time of original booking to time of. Raise. The prices will be what the prices will be....I know that at any time prior to final payment I can cancel if I'm not happy. What is important to me may not be important to you and vice versa.

[Leavethekidswithmom]

[quote name='watchdiva']Thrilled with the pricing/perks for our next 3 cruises and certainly not going to switch cruise lines over changes to DSC, UDP or UBP from time of original booking to time of. Raise. The prices will be what the prices will be....I know that at any time prior to final payment I can cancel if I'm not happy. What is important to me may not be important to you and vice versa.[/QUOTE]


Ditto.

[NLH Arizona]

[quote name='abe3']The FAQ of the UDP is not the actual contract between you and NCL[/QUOTE]

I wish everyone would read all of the guest ticket contract and I'm sure it would answer a lot of their questions, with regard to what it includes, what you have agreed to and what you have agreed not to do, etc.

And I've said it before, the best way to get a company's attention, is to walk away with your wallet, if you don't like their policies and procedures. Edited September 15, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[hpecorari]

[quote name='NLH Arizona']I wish everyone would read all of the guest ticket contract and I'm sure it would answer a lot of their questions, with regard to what it includes, what you have agreed to and what you have agreed not to do, etc.

And I've said it before, the best way to get a company's attention, is to walk away with your wallet, if you don't like their policies and procedures.[/QUOTE]

I agree to a degree. But what happens when NCL has specials, perks, etc. They don't change the contract every time so it really is a conflict of interest to a degree.

Harriet

[NLH Arizona]

[quote name='hpecorari']I agree to a degree. But what happens when NCL has specials, perks, etc. They don't change the contract every time so it really is a conflict of interest to a degree.

Harriet[/QUOTE]They don't need to change the contract. Read the entire contact and I believe that will answer your question.

[3kidsncats]

[quote name='abe3']The FAQ of the UDP is not the actual contract between you and NCL[/QUOTE]

And again, contracts of adhesion are different in some regards than other types of contracts since little to no negotiation happens in determining the terms. Since one party has all the control in creating the terms, with the presumed assistance of a legal team, the other party is presented with laymans terms by the seller to further explain the provisions of the contract. The consumer is able to bring any information provided by the seller that explain the benefits, exclusions, conditions, etc into their pleading. In this situation, the FAQ is helping to fill in the gap that is created when no negotiation is allowed to happen. It all comes down to what did the consumer reasonably understand that they were getting for their money.

A legal battle over terms isn't strictly what is in the contract, although that is a crucial component -- it's also about how well ones attorney understands the law and how to argue a case effectively. This comes into play much more with this type of contract situation .

[ighten]

[quote name='hawkeyetlse']I agree with you, but there is no such clause in the T&Cs of the dining packages, is there?[/quote]

There doesn't have to be.. Its part of your "package" with NCL as is anything you add or buy through them

[hawkeyetlse]

[quote name='ighten']There doesn't have to be.. Its part of your "package" with NCL as is anything you add or buy through them[/quote]But they have to actually say that somewhere, and I imagine that they probably do, but where?

[3kidsncats]

[quote name='NLH Arizona']I wish everyone would read all of the guest ticket contract and I'm sure it would answer a lot of their questions, with regard to what it includes, what you have agreed to and what you have agreed not to do, etc.

And I've said it before, the best way to get a company's attention, is to walk away with your wallet, if you don't like their policies and procedures.[/QUOTE]

A ticket contract that is presented after booking, and not during the offer/acceptance phase. Important distinction -- and one that provides grounds for argument. And presented in such a way as to force the consumer to agree to it in order to take possession of the benefit they purchased.

I'm sure that NCL (and probably all the cruise lines which no doubt practice similar tactics) is banking on the fact that most people don't know, don't care, and just won't sue. Usually they are right, but with the way they are jerking people around right now, that could change.

And I have spoken with my money-- my next cruise after this one is on Princess

[abe3]

[quote name='3kidsncats']And again, contracts of adhesion are different in some regards than other types of contracts since little to no negotiation happens in determining the terms. Since one party has all the control in creating the terms, with the presumed assistance of a legal team, the other party is presented with laymans terms by the seller to further explain the provisions of the contract. The consumer is able to bring any information provided by the seller that explain the benefits, exclusions, conditions, etc into their pleading. In this situation, the FAQ is helping to fill in the gap that is created when no negotiation is allowed to happen. It all comes down to what did the consumer reasonably understand that they were getting for their money.



A legal battle over terms isn't strictly what is in the contract, although that is a crucial component -- it's also about how well ones attorney understands the law and how to argue a case effectively. This comes into play much more with this type of contract situation .[/QUOTE]


I see some of your points but I would disagree that someone will take NCL to court over items from a menu. NCL holds all the power in terms of being able to change the terms of add on and promotional items. There are no contract pertaining to the UDP in the actual cruise contract. You can take the FAQ with you on your cruise and I hope anyone gets what they want when showing it to them, but in my opinion they don't have to honor anything that was offered in the past. It would be a good courtesy thing for NCL to do but they are not bound by anything in terms of the UDP.

[bobstheboy]

All this argument about contracts is a matter of opinion. The only arbiter is a judge in a court of law, the rest is conjecture.

[3kidsncats]

[quote name='abe3']I see some of your points but I would disagree that someone will take NCL to court over items from a menu. NCL holds all the power in terms of being able to change the terms of add on and promotional items. There are no contract pertaining to the UDP in the actual cruise contract. You can take the FAQ with you on your cruise and I hope anyone gets what they want when showing it to them, but in my opinion they don't have to honor anything that was offered in the past. It would be a good courtesy thing for NCL to do but they are not bound by anything in terms of the UDP.[/QUOTE]

You aren't getting the bigger picture, but that's ok. The piece of straw in this argument is the UDP -- but the pile of straw is the behavior of a major company in trying to breach the terms --this discussion is just one example of it, but if they get away with it, there will be more. The terms of the UDP are a part of the contract because a contract is created when services/benefits are offered as part of a sales transaction that is accepted and paid for.

One doesn't have to go to court -- one only has to make it clear that they understand their rights to someone high enough up the chain.

[3kidsncats]

[quote name='bobstheboy']All this argument about contracts is a matter of opinion. The only arbiter is a judge in a court of law, the rest is conjecture.[/QUOTE]

I agree, and how well you make your argument in front of said judge -- as basically noted in the last comment of post 212

[Wendy&Grumpy]

At Cagney's on the Getaway last week DH had Whole Maine Lobster and Filet Mignon, and I had the Porterhouse (which I absolutely could not finish!) and there was no extra charge. We expected it, but it wasn't charged.

[3kidsncats]

[quote name='Wendy&Grumpy']At Cagney's on the Getaway last week DH had Whole Maine Lobster and Filet Mignon, and I had the Porterhouse (which I absolutely could not finish!) and there was no extra charge. We expected it, but it wasn't charged.[/QUOTE]

Which is in keeping with their terms, and their press release on the topic. I really think this issue is more of a communication problem, that will get sorted in time. And thanks for the update! Edited September 15, 2015 by 3kidsncats

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='NLH Arizona']I wish everyone would read all of the guest ticket contract and I'm sure it would answer a lot of their questions, with regard to what it includes, what you have agreed to and what you have agreed not to do, etc.

And I've said it before, the best way to get a company's attention, is to walk away with your wallet, if you don't like their policies and procedures.[/QUOTE]

You can't win. When people point to the contract, the opposite side points to the FAQ. When someone points to the FAQ, the opposite points to the contract.

[3kidsncats]

[quote name='LMaxwell']You can't win. When people point to the contract, the opposite side points to the FAQ. When someone points to the FAQ, the opposite points to the contract.[/QUOTE]

And that's why we have a court system, lol.

[maywell]

[quote name='LMaxwell']You can't win. When people point to the contract, the opposite side points to the FAQ. When someone points to the FAQ, the opposite points to the contract.[/QUOTE]
Section 2, 3a and 4a of the US Guest Contract are important to read because it lists out the actual situation is - NCL is now finally playing by rules of their own contract with those particular sections in the US and is pulling a 'ping pong' on guests who have the UDP/SDP who want to buy premium items.

Yes, Abe3, is technically right - NCL can do whatever they want because the contract protects them when they make changes to T&C or the FAQ, because it supersedes the 2. And when something is not clearly specified in the contract - NCL can 'ping pong' / direct back to T&C and/or FAQ. The only group of people who have a better case to fight this is the reservations done through EU/UK since NCL has to deal with their protection agency - The US has no such protection....

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[abe3]

[quote name='maywell']Section 2, 3a and 4a of the US Guest Contract are important to read because it lists out the actual situation is - NCL is now finally playing by rules of their own contract with those particular sections in the US and is pulling a 'ping pong' on guests who have the UDP/SDP who want to buy premium items.

Yes, Abe3, is technically right - NCL can do whatever they want because the contract protects them when they make changes to T&C or the FAQ, because it supersedes the 2. And when something is not clearly specified in the contract - NCL can 'ping pong' / direct back to T&C and/or FAQ. The only group of people who have a better case to fight this is the reservations done through EU/UK since NCL has to deal with their protection agency - The US has no such protection....

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


This is completely correct. Europe would have some type of fight and I still don't think it would ever get into the courts even in Europe.

It really is a silly argument in the first place. There are so many different stories of this way and that way concerning what happens on the ship that pertains to the UDP and the so called premium items. And to base your expectations in these boards before you actually go out and cruise to see what it really entails it is just all here say.

The terms and conditions of the actual contract out weigh any FAQ sheet you might bring on board. Like I said before if you get what you want more power to you but if you don't NCL is still in the right according to the contract between you and them.