Cheapening the product

[ToadOfToadHall]

If customers start drifting away from Cunard because they see too much product cheapening, Cunard/Carnival will respond; either by restoring some of the luster along with higher fares, by finding some new way to attract their disappearing customers without increasing fares, or by accepting and marketing to a new customer base.

 

I'd say what they will do is what ever other company does when it changes something; if it does not work they will do it even more, because under no circumstances will they admit they were wrong.

 

So, if Cunard cheapen the brand and people start leaving, what they will do is say "ah, it's not working, we need to cheapen it even more."

 

It's just like taxation; When the government decides to increase tax in order to modify people's behaviour, when it does not work, they just increase it even more (and it still does not work).

[navybankerteacher]

I'd say what they will do is what ever other company does when it changes something; if it does not work they will do it even more, because under no circumstances will they admit they were wrong.

 

So, if Cunard cheapen the brand and people start leaving, what they will do is say "ah, it's not working, we need to cheapen it even more."

 

It's just like taxation; When the government decides to increase tax in order to modify people's behaviour, when it does not work, they just increase it even more (and it still does not work).

 

I believe you are right: the mass market lines appear to have adopted a business model largely based upon price competition rather than quality competition. As long as the bulk of their customer base sees value as being primarily a function of cost paid rather than experience received, we can expect further deterioration.

[alc13]

I believe you are right: the mass market lines appear to have adopted a business model largely based upon price competition rather than quality competition. As long as the bulk of their customer base sees value as being primarily a function of cost paid rather than experience received, we can expect further deterioration.

 

That is a really interesting perspective.

 

Do you know of a successful business model based on quality? I can think of one - Apple. They fought for years a stigma of being overpriced but quality won out. As you say, value was eventually seen as "experience received."

 

Perseverance and commitment to a vision can work, as long as market share and profit aren't your only goals.

[DaddyWarbucks]

We have just returned from a crossing on QM2. Even in the grills, things are not they used to be. You have to print out your own ticket as well as your boarding pass. This makes me compare Cunard travel with airline travel. That cannot be an uplifting comparison. I do think we should be able to compare the Grills with Crystal. On my last travel with Crystal, Our tickets came in a zippered wallet that was a perfect case for an Ipad. I use it every day with fond memories.

 

The "Carnivalisation" of Cunard continues to cheapen the brand. The number of menu offerings is certainly not what it used to be. The prices of voyages are really controlled by supply and demand. As sailing date approaches, a large number of unsold cabins will trigger price reductions. Cunard reacts to reduced revenue by cutting services. Thus the downward spiral continues alas.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Do you know of a successful business model based on quality? I can think of one - Apple.

 

Apple certainly have cracked their marketing. They sell inferior products at prices above their competitor's best quality products. And then to top it off, their customers see Apple not as a company, but as a kind of deity - now that is clever marketing.

[ToadOfToadHall]

You have to print out your own ticket as well as your boarding pass.

 

But that's because of technology. You don't need a ticket or a boarding pass any more because those things are tied to your passport. And since you have to present a passport anyway, what function does a ticket have ? None.

 

You can check in for your cruise without a ticket - I've done it.

[navybankerteacher]

That is a really interesting perspective.

 

Do you know of a successful business model based on quality? I can think of one - Apple. They fought for years a stigma of being overpriced but quality won out. As you say, value was eventually seen as "experience received."

 

Perseverance and commitment to a vision can work, as long as market share and profit aren't your only goals.

 

Rolls Royce and Maserati, in automobiles, a number of watchmakers, Hermes in silk scarves, among others, appear to base their models on quality. Even Crystal, among others, in cruising, makes the effort.

 

Carnival has opted to run Cunard much as it does Holland America (into the ground).

[canoncruiser]

In light of this discussion, I’d like to share a memory. When the QE2 came out, the France had been in service for six+- years. My first crossing ever was on the France in 1969. I had an inside single with shower and toilet on a high deck. It cost $365.00 One Way-the service was superb. That same cabin type on QE2 was approx. $550 + or-. I had that kind of cabin in 1971-the service was OK. The France was subsidized by the French government; the QE2 was not subsidized. Later sailings on the France in First Class saw lavish service including as much caviar as one wanted; later sailings on QE2 in First and Queen’s Grill saw caviar-for instance-served in very small jars.

When the France lost the subsidy we lost the France in 1974 (remember we lost the United States earlier for the same reason).

Like her Cunard predecessors, QE2 had to be run w/out an operating subsidy, and she kept going well beyond her planned 30 years.

Carnival Corp. has been credited with some of the best market /customer analysis in the industry-I think that they have looked at these issues. I don’t like the smaller chocolates either!:D

 

We’ll all see how much Cunard is committed to style and quality after QM2’s refit-the word is they are spending a lot-we’ll see. ;)

[ToadOfToadHall]

$550 in 1969 comes out at $3576 now.

 

You can get a TA including a flight for £649, so about $1000.

[jimmybean]

I just returned from an Aegean cruise on Queen Victoria, and I saw signs of Cunard’s cheapening its product. It may be that these have always been there, and I am just noticing them because they form a contrast with more recent experiences on other lines. Whether or not they are recent, they add up to a disincentive to pursue future cruising on Cunard.

 

The kinds of things that I am talking about are small touches which one might expect on a luxury or premium cruise line, and not on a mass market line. They are trivial in and of themselves, but they detract from the experience, and in my opinion leave Cunard more reliant on its image of English heritage to distinguish its brand than on what is actually delivered.

 

Small examples are the limited range of breakfast omelets available in Britannia, just ham, cheese and mushroom as I recall, with the cheese not otherwise named, but presumably cheddar. I can find more imaginative choices than this in my local diner. Shirts sent out to be laundered no longer have the option of being returned folded but always come back on hangars. Room service breakfast menus have deleted omelets and croissants as check-off options, although (so far) they will still be delivered if written in. The bedtime chocolates have shrunk by 30 or 40%. Britannia has no sugar-free dessert options available, unlike its presumably more humble sister company Holland-America, and the cheeses on the cheese tray are not ever named on either the menu or the plate; they seem like mass-market processed cheeses, not what one might find at a fine cheese shop. The variety of bread rolls in Britannia is limited to white, brown or seeded, in contrast to the cheese rolls and breadsticks which one finds on Celebrity. Also unlike HAL or Celebrity, Cunard does not provide a cloth tote bag on cruises. And at one port on my recent QV cruise, shuttle service from dock to town was free for all except those on saver fares, who were charged.

 

And maybe I am just noticing this after a cruise on a blessedly loudspeaker-free Crystal ship, but there is always some sort of light pop music playing in the public rooms; often these are vocals which impede concentration if one is reading a book.

 

I appreciate that Cunard is not to be compared with genuine luxury cruise lines such as Crystal; on a per-day basis, my Crystal oceanview cost 70% more than my QV balcony. But I think that the small touches which I find lacking on Cunard would not add substantially to its costs or fares; Crystal needs to charge far more because all drinks, alcoholic or non, are included in the fare, their loyalty program is more generous (e.g., an hour a day of free internet on one’s second Crystal cruise) and their ships carry half the passengers that Cunard does. What is far more disturbing is how far behind many of the mass-market cruise lines Cunard has fallen. A glorious heritage, a stagy Britishness and some snobbery about its more formal atmosphere cannot counterbalance the cheese-paring that I now see on Cunard.

 

Does this mean that I am no longer a Cunard customer? No; I will continue to do my yearly TA on the Mary because the service and the ship are unique. But I can’t see ever taking another cruise (as opposed to crossing) on Cunard.

 

Bob K,

 

I believe you state a concern many of us share very clearly.

 

Thank you for your posting.

 

Jimmybean

[deck chair]

Hello

 

As one who has sailed with Cunard countless times, I have noticed some changes....have to print my own boarding pass but hardly a big deal...I don't get the wallet these days containing my documents but again, no big deal. The cabin chocolates have been reduced in size but I just have my cabin steward leave extras so no big deal....I don't get the nice thick paper colorful luggage tags but no big deal.... room service menu in Britannia class has been reduced (Especially when compared to Caronia grade room service menus on QE2) but usually you can get what you want by politely writing in a request within reason and it will most likely be delivered. The dining room menus have been diminished certainly when compared to the Caronia Dining Room on QE2 but if you politely ask you can usually get something not on the menu within reason on the menu so no big deal....

 

What is very important to me is Cunard has NOT cut back the number of musicians/singers they have on board their ships....I challenge anyone to name a line that budgets money for musicians to the extent Cunard does. I love all the orchestras, trios, the ballrooms, the string quartets, the five piece nightclub band, the harpist, and all the pianists they have scattered over the ship in various lounges. Can anyone name a line that can challenge that??

 

I can also report with authority that the service on all their ships is nothing short of wonderful. Is it perfect? No, but it sure is great....and if you are polite to the crew you will notice your service will even be better. I am constantly dismayed how many of the passengers are rude to the hard working crew. I am confident others on this board have as well.

 

Let me also add, I hear constantly how Carnival Corporation has cheapened Cunard Line since they took over some years ago. We all must understand that without Carnival there would be no QM2, QV or QE. I understand it is not perfect but nothing is. To me it is still a high quality experience but then again I don't fret about printing my own boarding pass and think CUNARD has gone to hell. What do you think???

 

Deck Chair

Edited September 10, 2015 by deck chair

[rafinmd]

Hello

 

As one who has sailed with Cunard countless times, I have noticed some changes....have to print my own boarding pass but hardly a big deal...I don't get the wallet these days containing my documents but again, no big deal. The cabin chocolates have been reduced in size but I just have my cabin steward leave extras so no big deal....I don't get the nice thick paper colorful luggage tags but no big deal.... room service menu in Britannia class has been reduced (Especially when compared to Caronia grade room service menus on QE2) but usually you can get what you want by politely writing in a request within reason and it will most likely be delivered. The dining room menus have been diminished certainly when compared to the Caronia Dining Room on QE2 but if you politely ask you can usually get something not on the menu within reason on the menu so no big deal....

 

What is very important to me is Cunard has NOT cut back the number of musicians/singers they have on board their ships....I challenge anyone to name a line that budgets money for musicians to the extent Cunard does. I love all the orchestras, trios, the ballrooms, the string quartets, the five piece nightclub band, the harpist, and all the pianists they have scattered over the ship in various lounges. Can anyone name a line that can challenge that??

 

I can also report with authority that the service on all their ships is nothing short of wonderful. Is it perfect? No, but it sure is great....and if you are polite to the crew you will notice your service will even be better. I am constantly dismayed how many of the passengers are rude to the hard working crew. I am confident others on this board have as well.

 

Let me also add, I hear constantly how Carnival Corporation has cheapened Cunard Line since they took over some years ago. We all must understand that without Carnival there would be no QM2, QV or QE. I understand it is not perfect but nothing is. To me it is still a high quality experience but then again I don't fret about printing my own boarding pass and think CUNARD has gone to hell. What do you think???

 

Deck Chair

 

:) Hear, Hear!

 

I can't tell where you come from but in the US we had a long running advice columnist called Ann Landers. She frequently repeated "the Ann Landers Question" -- "Are you better off with or without he/she/it?" Certainly some things have changed and Cunard is something of a secondary cruise line for me but I feel I am CLEARLY better off with Cunard than without.

 

Roy

[canoncruiser]

Just got my document for E’bound 29 October crossing-it INCLUDED colored baggage tags-I guess Cunard heard and responded.:)

[Classiccruiser777]

Great lectures, plentiful live music, spotless ships, good food, great staff. What's not to like?

[alc13]

Great lectures, plentiful live music, spotless ships, good food, great staff. What's not to like?

 

That's what brings us back!

 

But I worry about the continuing pressure to reduce costs.

[Victoria2]

Hello

 

As one who has sailed with Cunard countless times, I have noticed some changes....have to print my own boarding pass but hardly a big deal...I don't get the wallet these days containing my documents but again, no big deal. The cabin chocolates have been reduced in size but I just have my cabin steward leave extras so no big deal....I don't get the nice thick paper colorful luggage tags but no big deal.... room service menu in Britannia class has been reduced (Especially when compared to Caronia grade room service menus on QE2) but usually you can get what you want by politely writing in a request within reason and it will most likely be delivered. The dining room menus have been diminished certainly when compared to the Caronia Dining Room on QE2 but if you politely ask you can usually get something not on the menu within reason on the menu so no big deal....

 

What is very important to me is Cunard has NOT cut back the number of musicians/singers they have on board their ships....I challenge anyone to name a line that budgets money for musicians to the extent Cunard does. I love all the orchestras, trios, the ballrooms, the string quartets, the five piece nightclub band, the harpist, and all the pianists they have scattered over the ship in various lounges. Can anyone name a line that can challenge that??

 

I can also report with authority that the service on all their ships is nothing short of wonderful. Is it perfect? No, but it sure is great....and if you are polite to the crew you will notice your service will even be better. I am constantly dismayed how many of the passengers are rude to the hard working crew. I am confident others on this board have as well.

 

Let me also add, I hear constantly how Carnival Corporation has cheapened Cunard Line since they took over some years ago. We all must understand that without Carnival there would be no QM2, QV or QE. I understand it is not perfect but nothing is. To me it is still a high quality experience but then again I don't fret about printing my own boarding pass and think CUNARD has gone to hell. What do you think???

 

Deck Chair

 

What do I think? I think you've nailed it. Well said.

[laktex]

Hello

 

As one who has sailed with Cunard countless times, I have noticed some changes....have to print my own boarding pass but hardly a big deal...I don't get the wallet these days containing my documents but again, no big deal. The cabin chocolates have been reduced in size but I just have my cabin steward leave extras so no big deal....I don't get the nice thick paper colorful luggage tags but no big deal.... room service menu in Britannia class has been reduced (Especially when compared to Caronia grade room service menus on QE2) but usually you can get what you want by politely writing in a request within reason and it will most likely be delivered. The dining room menus have been diminished certainly when compared to the Caronia Dining Room on QE2 but if you politely ask you can usually get something not on the menu within reason on the menu so no big deal....

 

What is very important to me is Cunard has NOT cut back the number of musicians/singers they have on board their ships....I challenge anyone to name a line that budgets money for musicians to the extent Cunard does. I love all the orchestras, trios, the ballrooms, the string quartets, the five piece nightclub band, the harpist, and all the pianists they have scattered over the ship in various lounges. Can anyone name a line that can challenge that??

 

I can also report with authority that the service on all their ships is nothing short of wonderful. Is it perfect? No, but it sure is great....and if you are polite to the crew you will notice your service will even be better. I am constantly dismayed how many of the passengers are rude to the hard working crew. I am confident others on this board have as well.

 

Let me also add, I hear constantly how Carnival Corporation has cheapened Cunard Line since they took over some years ago. We all must understand that without Carnival there would be no QM2, QV or QE. I understand it is not perfect but nothing is. To me it is still a high quality experience but then again I don't fret about printing my own boarding pass and think CUNARD has gone to hell. What do you think???

 

Deck Chair

 

My sentiments entirely.

 

I would suggest several cruise lines have actually adopted Cunards structure of different categories in offerering slightly extra facilities according to what you wish to pay, Cunard has its Club, Princess & Queens - Celebrity its Reflection / Signature/Sky/Aqua - HAL its Pinnacle/Neptune/Signature.etc etc etc If you desire to get more you pay more - I think that is a fair arrangement. For sure there is some penny pinching going on but fancy tickets and the size of the chocolate will not deter me from Cunard - lowering its standards in maintaining a dress code and a degree of formality probably would send me elsewhere.