adjusting tips

[luddite]

Wrong again Einstein!

 

.[/font]

 

You REALLY need to find some warmer clothing. Something has obviously frozen.

 

Reading some guidelines would also benefit you.

[macandlucy]

This has been discussed on many of these threads. Much like the restaurant industry, there USED TO BE a process of tipping-out, that is....the front-line people received a gratuity and apportioned it to the rest of the team who made it possible for them to do their jobs well. The dishwasher, line cook, busboy.... would typically share some percentage.

 

When FreeStyle was introduced, one of the challenges was that servers may rotate, and the teams would be fluid - perhaps even during the same night. So by pooling & attributing ship-wide, or even (if they chose) fleet-wide, they deal with this problem effectively. No more tipping-out, just a DSC portion of the pool for each person involved..

 

 

Thank you very much for the explanation. :) One more tick in the keep the DSC (vs cash tips) box.

 

 

 

"We weren't talking about voluntary tips. We were talking about service charges, and specifically about your pressing need to know how people were being paid from the service charge.

 

My story shows how it's none of my affair how people get paid. "

 

 

 

If I may stick my big nose in here...

 

If understand you and others correctly, you view the DSC as a service charge, and simply part of the cost of cruising which must be paid in all but the most extreme service failures. Your arguments make perfect sense from that vantage point.

 

Cruise lines themselves are creating confusion by referring to it as "discretionary"/ "at your discretion" (meaning optional/voluntary). This implies that it is not a fee per se, but an optional one, like a tip.

 

I'd bet that cruise lines know most people are going to be ok paying it and they call it discretionary knowing full well only some will will ever exercise their "discretionary right" and not pay it. They can this way get the moola and also not piss off the people who are not going to be tippers anyway.

 

But if it really is a genuine service charge, they could eliminate a lot of confusion by simply renaming it that and removing any and all references to discretion.

 

Although, on second thought, why would they? They are getting their needs met under this system and the only negative ramifications i can see are one weekly, and spicy, thread on Cruise Critic ;)

 

Ultimately, I really just want the comfort of a clear conscience knowing the crew is being fairly compensated. If they are, fantastic.

Edited November 27, 2015 by macandlucy

[grandpa99]

Some of the people who want to remove the DSC without a good reason remind me of people who did not show up in the dining room on the last night so they would not have to give their wait staff the envelope with their gratuity for the whole cruise.

 

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[Josher61]

Some of the people who want to remove the DSC without a good reason remind me of people who did not show up in the dining room on the last night so they would not have to give their wait staff the envelope with their gratuity for the whole cruise.

 

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Sadly, I think Im learning that what one persons idea of what a "good reason" is, can be really, really off base.

 

On a more positive note lol, your analogy reminded me of my very first cruise, when I had no clue about how the "tipping worked". I simply tipped everywhere I went :) And also being from la Belle Province, I was quite generous I guess. The dealers, waiters, room steward, bartenders etc all gave me great service. The last night, we did not make it to the dining room for our seating, simply because we were having to good of a time in the casino. A woman stood behind me and proceeded to "whisper" to her friend that I was the woman who "stiffed" the waiter by not showing up in the MDR. I had no clue what she was talking about, possibly a few too many drinks in me as well and simply ignored her, but I honestly was insulted thinking I was a decent tipper. I finally later asked the pit boss what the story was about the last night having to eat in the MDR and it was explained to me. I rushed to the dining room, explained to the hostess I needed to speak to my waiter and the reason why. He arrived, I pressed a bill in his hand and he refused to take it! Told me I had tipped him more throughout the week than he was likely to receive from anyone else at our table. I insisted he take it anyway, what the heck, Im betting more than that per hand I told him. He laughed and graciously accepted it then. Lesson learned for me. Learn the "customs" of where you travel!

[Josher61]

Macandlucy; good post, I agree, they should call it a service charge, remove the "discretionary", and be done with it. But then people would be up in arms, those that have every intention of removing it that is. I am sure some number crunchers at NCL have figured out the percentage of people that remove the DSC and are quite fine with this number. Or not, as they have raised it a few times now :) Hopefully now their projections jive.

[49erfan007]

That's exactly what I did.

 

But some people here feel I should have received bad service and been forced to pay the full amount. It is the same people who state this that have no reasonable response to the question of what should a guest do if the charge is mandatory and service is bad.

 

If it can't be resolved NOW and the charge isn't mandatory, you better believe it will occur more often if the charge is mandatory

 

No I agree with you wholeheartedly, if you don't get good service than the person/s should not receive a tip. Some people on these boards just like to argue about things. I was just saying that sometimes people just don't like to tip at all and it is two different things. Bad service = lower DSC, that's the way it should be. But obviously before you lower the DSC you should give them a chance to correct the problem. Again they should correct it after the first complaint, you should not have to keep complaining about the same person

[49erfan007]

People are mostly in line to settle up their account.....

 

They will never make it mandatory, because it would then be subjected to commission from TA as well as their employee's would have to declare the tips as income.

 

I have always tipped above the suggested amount, but as it is a discretionary fee, it allows people to reduce or remove it.

 

I believe that you pay for good service and dispute poor service...it has nothing to do with being cheap in my opinion. It is all about accountability.

 

 

I have prepaid my current B2B cruise DSC.....I will also tip in cash my Room Steward as well as servers. Cash goes directly to the individuals who provide you services, not into some pool that is distributed arbitrarily by NCL.

 

Well said

[GUT2407]

One of the problems with the auto tips (by whatever name) is that people then insist on tipping extra and it starts a whole new expectation for extra tips, where does it stop. Then they have the hide to say "When in Rome" while ignoring it themselves by over tipping.

[pieshops]

No I agree with you wholeheartedly, if you don't get good service than the person/s should not receive a tip. Some people on these boards just like to argue about things. I was just saying that sometimes people just don't like to tip at all and it is two different things. Bad service = lower DSC, that's the way it should be. But obviously before you lower the DSC you should give them a chance to correct the problem. Again they should correct it after the first complaint, you should not have to keep complaining about the same person

 

In theory this makes perfect sense but in reality if your steward is bad and you reduce the DSC then everyone who gets a part of the DSC is also reduced.

[LoveyHowell]

In theory this makes perfect sense but in reality if your steward is bad and you reduce the DSC then everyone who gets a part of the DSC is also reduced.

 

Who set up that system? The guest didn't.

[pieshops]

Who set up that system? The guest didn't.

 

not sure i understand your point.

 

Does not matter who set it up, it is not NCL who is getting hurt, its the employees, NCL could care less

[mugtech]

not sure i understand your point.

 

Does not matter who set it up, it is not NCL who is getting hurt, its the employees, NCL could care less

 

The point that is it does not matter who is hurt by requesting a refund, the important thing is that the cruiser gets money back, nothing else matters.

[LoveyHowell]

not sure i understand your point.

 

Does not matter who set it up, it is not NCL who is getting hurt, its the employees, NCL could care less

 

If NCL could(n't) care less, why should the guest who isn't getting an adequate level of service? Why should I be guilted about a back of the house guy not getting his cut because my room steward sucked? NCL set up the system to distribute the charge, whatever it may be, and obviously this system has it's flaws but everyone here says the crew is happy. So if they are happy, maybe there isn't a problem?

[Leavethekidswithmom]

We were on the Breakaway to Bermuda and rarely saw our room attendant. On boarding day there was a 1/4 roll of toilet tissue and no washcloths. Not a big deal. We left a note, but this was not rectified during turn down. Twice we left notes for ice and never received them. I did call housekeeping multiple times for each of these items. A department manager called me back letting us know that there would be no further issues. GREAT! We were very satisfied.

 

 

 

On day 6 our towels sat on the floor of the bathroom unreplaced.

 

 

 

I don't know what the issue was with the steward but it never got resolved and I got fed up making calls and waiting for items that should have been in our room.

 

 

 

We modified our DSC after the trip; downwards by $40. NCL refunded us 18 days later. Had no issues with the form.

 

 

 

I get it, some behind the scenes guy loses out a little bit because of that. But that's the system NCL set up with its employees. I really don't appreciate being guilted into paying for services I don't receive after being asked to pay for them. If there is collateral damage, that is NCL's fault, not mine. Is it the fault of the guy who washes the towels? No. Should he be penalized? No. Is NCL penalizing him for the incompetence of the room steward? Yes.

 

 

Don't blame the service on you reducing the DSC. The ones that have been around here and seen your past posts know that you advocate removing the DSC and throwing cash at everyone. Also we know you didn't reduce it like you say, you removed it, period.

[Josher61]

I have stated my issue above, which I see you failed to acknowledge. Makes my point for me. As to the other stuff you are talking about....again, I have no interest, Im not interested in petty commentary about others.

[motleyfan]

The point that is it does not matter who is hurt by requesting a refund, the important thing is that the cruiser gets money back, nothing else matters.

 

You came off sounding kinda heartless there though I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

[sjbdtz]

Some of the people who want to remove the DSC without a good reason remind me of people who did not show up in the dining room on the last night so they would not have to give their wait staff the envelope with their gratuity for the whole cruise.

 

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You didn't think those people just vanished, did you? I'd wager that exactly the people who ate in the buffet on the last night are now those who 'prefer to tip in cash'. Because that way nobody knows whether they met their obligation. I mean....why not tip by cheque? Or by named receipt added to their shipboard account (like I do with the Butler & Concierge). That way there's a paper trail, which they seek to avoid. It's not the rewarding....that can be done WITH a paper trail too.

 

 

Macandlucy; good post, I agree, they should call it a service charge, remove the "discretionary", and be done with it. But then people would be up in arms, those that have every intention of removing it that is. I am sure some number crunchers at NCL have figured out the percentage of people that remove the DSC and are quite fine with this number. Or not, as they have raised it a few times now :) Hopefully now their projections jive.

 

I suspect that there's some truth to an article which stated that the crew's salary and their 'variable' income are treated differently in their home country for purposes of income taxation.

 

Basically it said that gratuity income was not taxable, which is why the 'discretion' part has to remain part of the policy. But the wording is DEFINITELY designed to suggest (strongly) that this is a fee, not a donation.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[motleyfan]

Macandlucy; good post, I agree, they should call it a service charge, remove the "discretionary", and be done with it. But then people would be up in arms, those that have every intention of removing it that is. I am sure some number crunchers at NCL have figured out the percentage of people that remove the DSC and are quite fine with this number. Or not, as they have raised it a few times now :) Hopefully now their projections jive.

 

I've always heard the D was for daily not discretionary lol

[mugtech]

You came off sounding kinda heartless there though I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

 

I was being sarcastic. All the talk about the principles involved is just a smoke screen.

[Eastbourne]

Is there smoking allowed on formal nights?

 

 

Only dope.