2 New DCL Ships Announced!

[johnlisac]

Personally I don't think even DCL has made a decision about where the two new ships will be home ported. It's five years away and generally cruise lines don't make specific deployment decisions that far in advance. There are too many variables that impact the global travel market to lock in a deployment strategy that far in advance. The only exception would be if they specifically design one of the new ships for deployment in China. That would mean casinos, high end retail, fewer bars, and kitchens that specialize in preparing authentic Chinese cuisine. Certainly not typical of a Disney Cruise experience today.

Well I have to tell you China and Australia are the front runners as of now. Yes that can change or the older fleet might get moved to make room for the newer ships. Like you said it is five years away.

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[eroller]

eroller,

Without QOQ or YOY breakdowns for each part of the parks and resorts portfolio, it is impossible to know the impact any changes on DCL have made.

 

Using blanket statements such as increased spending due to higher ticket prices does not show any losses due to higher ticket pricing.

 

For example and keeping figures low for ease, if in 2015 Q1 Guests spent $1 per head on a Dream cruise sailing full that's $4000.

 

If the Dream sails with 3000 Guests spending $1.10 but they have 1000 spaces not filled or discounted for last minute cruises and the spend per head is only 90c, the increase overall is $200 above the $4000.

 

Therefore the statement made of higher earnings is true, but the price point exceed demand and they had to discount to achieve full sailings at a reduced profit of $4200 vs. the $4400 they would have made if that price achievable?

 

I'm surprised they have vacant veranda sailings on the Dream during Easter weekend, when I would have thought that sailing would have been sold out many months ago.

Prices and bookings numbers for 2017 are nothing to go by until past the PIF date and people haven't backed out and received their deposit back (Concierge excepted)

 

ex techie

 

 

I appreciate your analogies, but it really doesn't mean anything because you don't know any of it for certain. Unless you're a senior accountant for DCL then you really don't know if DCL overall is making more or less money. You are making assumptions. A Q1 financial results report is not an assumption.

 

Yes my quote from the financial report is a blanket statement, but figures don't lie and revenue from Park & Resorts is up substantially, and DCL is included in Parks & Resorts. For Disney to even segment out DCL and make a comment about them contributing to better financial results due to higher ticket pricing speaks volumes to me. The fact they are ordering more ships only solidifies my thinking. Money losing cruise lines don't order new ships. Big public companies like Disney require solid financial results and increased projected financial returns before approving a capital expenditure like two new builds. It's not done on a whim, especially with Disney which has always taken the approach of very measured growth.

 

Speaking of my own Disney cruise last month, in mid-Feb during the most off-peak time of the entire year, there was no discounting and the sailing was completely sold out. I could have sailed on any number of other cruise lines the same week for 1/2 the price or even less for a 4-day cruise. I'm always looking at Disney rates as I enjoy cruising on them, but it's rare I see any great deals like I do on other cruise lines. I also don't think I've ever paid less for a Disney cruise than the competition. That tells me something.

Edited March 9, 2016 by eroller

[Ex techie]

Personally I don't think even DCL has made a decision about where the two new ships will be home ported. It's five years away and generally cruise lines don't make specific deployment decisions that far in advance. There are too many variables that impact the global travel market to lock in a deployment strategy that far in advance. The only exception would be if they specifically design one of the new ships for deployment in China. That would mean casinos, high end retail, fewer bars, and kitchens that specialize in preparing authentic Chinese cuisine. Certainly not typical of a Disney Cruise experience today.

 

I would think it would be foolish to build 2 new ships without any idea of where you are going to deploy them!

They have to make sure the port would have availability or capacity to take their ship, what the market would be sailing from that area of the globe, in Disney's case would they require another custom build exclusive use only terminal?

 

And I aso don't buy into your argument of the ships would need casino's or high end retail? They just wouldn't, the space isn't there for everything DCL incorporate on their ships, their own stores plus other retailers. The Chinese like to gamble because it is illegal in most parts of China with Macau I think as a sole exception. The cruise would not only go to Chinese ports so gambling could still take place in other ports for those that wish, and also shopping.

 

Galley kitchen equipment can easily be changed out, but I do not know of any major cruise line that has gas burners in their galley's? Happy to be proved wrong if you or anyone else knows of any!

But also as the East becomes more Westernized, so do their tastes and eating habits, so an Italian restaurant is not off the table as far as I'm concerned.

 

It is certainly not typical of a Disney Cruise experience today, but they will have to modify and adapt to suit the market they are courting. Golden Mickey's in Hong Kong Disney has Cantonese subtitles to the songs shown on the side screens for example.

 

IF DCL enter into the Asia market, they have not only the Chinese to adapt to, but the mass market of Japan and Australia, New Zealand, maybe South Korea.

I cannot see them making a Chinese oriented ship.

 

ex techie

[eroller]

 

And I aso don't buy into your argument of the ships would need casino's or high end retail? They just wouldn't, the space isn't there for everything DCL incorporate on their ships, their own stores plus other retailers. The Chinese like to gamble because it is illegal in most parts of China with Macau I think as a sole exception. The cruise would not only go to Chinese ports so gambling could still take place in other ports for those that wish, and also shopping.

 

Galley kitchen equipment can easily be changed out, but I do not know of any major cruise line that has gas burners in their galley's? Happy to be proved wrong if you or anyone else knows of any!

 

 

 

And I think the ships would need to be specialized, and my thinking is backed up by what every other westernized cruise line is doing with ships being deployed to China. They have learned they can't just take a westernized ship and dump it in China and expect it to be popular. It doesn't work and they are spending the $$ to specialize the experience. I don't think Disney can be the exception.

 

Who said anything about gas burners? There is a lot more to cooking authentic Chinese cuisine than gas burners. There are galley suppliers that specialize in Asian style kitchens on cruise ships and the lines that are sending new ships to China are adapting their galleys accordingly.

 

Have you seen the itineraries that are doable out of mainland China on a 3 or 4 day cruise? It's very limited and no, gambling & high end shopping are generally not a big option in the ports. This is why the cruise lines are providing it on their ships. Also it would be a huge missed revenue opportunity not to have it onboard. Right now the Chinese are generally not interested in cruising for more than 3 or 4 days, so itineraries are very limited. As time goes on perhaps longer cruises will become popular then itineraries can be a bit more diverse.

 

As for deployment, I never said there might not be a general strategy five years out, but as far as locking in itineraries no that doesn't happen this far out on any line. The beauty of cruise line deployment is that it can change year to year and in fact does. One year Europe may be in a slump so the next year cruise lines deploy more ships to the Caribbean or Alaska. That recently happened. You can't do that if you lock in schedules five years in advance. If Disney has decided that one new ship will be dedicated to China, then yes they will start planning that now as the ship will need modifications. That would be the exception.

Edited March 9, 2016 by eroller

[Ex techie]

I appreciate your analogies, but it really doesn't mean anything because you don't know any of it for certain. Unless you're a senior accountant for DCL then you really don't know if DCL overall is making more or less money. You are making assumptions. A Q1 financial results report is not an assumption.

 

Touche!

Neither you nor I know the breakdown, but yet for whatever reason you say I don't know if DCL is making more of less money, yet you are adamant they are?

 

Yes my quote from the financial report is a blanket statement, but figures don't lie and revenue from Park & Resorts is up substantially, and DCL is included in Parks & Resorts. For Disney to even segment out DCL and make a comment about them contributing to better financial results due to higher ticket pricing speaks volumes to me.

 

Don't you think them including the cruise ships they most likely signed a memorandum of agreement probably many many months ago even a year ago but to be kept under wraps would be featured in their financials?

They boast about the cruise lines profitability before they announce the new ships, but provide no solid info on just how profitable they are, or not YOY.

They didn't send an email to Meyer Werft on the Friday before the announcement saying yeah, those new ships..... We think we will go ahead if you throw in a spare anchor.

The price they are paying, design, features, finish level would have been worked on for a few years and you wait for the right time to announce it

 

The fact they are ordering more ships only solidifies my thinking. Money losing cruise lines don't order new ships. Big public companies like Disney require solid financial results and increased projected financial returns before approving a capital expenditure like two new builds. It's not done on a whim, especially with Disney which has always taken the approach of very measured growth.

 

They have always been overly cautious IMO and missed opportunities due to being too slow to react to the market.

 

Speaking of my own Disney cruise last month, in mid-Feb during the most off-peak time of the entire year, there was no discounting and the sailing was completely sold out. I could have sailed on any number of other cruise lines the same week for 1/2 the price or even less for a 4-day cruise. I'm always looking at Disney rates as I enjoy cruising on them, but it's rare I see any great deals like I do on other cruise lines. I also don't think I've ever paid less for a Disney cruise than the competition. That tells me something.

 

Yes it might have been sold out, but were they charging those that booked that cruise 9 months out such high prices as those that booked last minute in the 90 day window?

How many Staterooms cancelled and were readvertized at a same price or were they lower rates to fill them (not discounting them).

All of these things we do not know, and as you said, on a top level accountant at DCL would know.

 

Answers in RED

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Personally I don't think even DCL has made a decision about where the two new ships will be home ported. It's five years away and generally cruise lines don't make specific deployment decisions that far in advance.

 

As for deployment, I never said there might not be a general strategy five years out, but as far as locking in itineraries no that doesn't happen this far out on any line. The beauty of cruise line deployment is that it can change year to year and in fact does. One year Europe may be in a slump so the next year cruise lines deploy more ships to the Caribbean or Alaska. That recently happened. You can't do that if you lock in schedules five years in advance. If Disney has decided that one new ship will be dedicated to China, then yes they will start planning that now as the ship will need modifications. That would be the exception.

 

As for deployment, I never said there might not be a general strategy five years out, but as far as locking in itineraries no that doesn't happen this far out on any line.

Sorry, yes you did. Right above. I don't think even DCL has made a decision about where the two new ships will be home ported.

 

So you stand by your comment that DCL have ordered 2 new ships, 5000 tons larger than the Dream class, but have no idea where their market will be or where they are going to find Guests to cruise on them?

Obviously they are not going to set down strict itineraries this far in advance, but they MUST know what region they are intending to send them to and have plans in place?

 

ex techie

[eroller]

Yes it might have been sold out, but were they charging those that booked that cruise 9 months out such high prices as those that booked last minute in the 90 day window?

 

 

Yes they were. I watched pricing and availability from almost a year out until just a week or two before sailing when it showed sold out. I had a party of over 20 onboard and we all booked at different times. Some more than six months out, and the last two weeks before sailing (apparently with the last balcony cabin). Pricing hardly changed from nine months to two weeks before. This surprised me. There was also absolutely no last minute discounting and the last person booked actually paid slightly more than everyone else.

 

Another way I can gauge discounting is by what lines are offering Interline fares. These are heavily discounted fares offered closer in to sailings for airline employees. It's rare you see DCL offer interline fares, but it does happen on occasion. Less than 10 a year I would guesstimate. Every now and then I will see one for the FANTASY, MAGIC, and WONDER but rarely if ever for DREAM. Even when they are offered they are not nearly as discounted as other lines. Also other lines have tons and tons of sailings offered for Interline, never Disney. Part of that is because DCL is smaller of course, but generally they just don't have to.

[eroller]

Sorry, yes you did. Right above. I don't think even DCL has made a decision about where the two new ships will be home ported.

 

So you stand by your comment that DCL have ordered 2 new ships, 5000 tons larger than the Dream class, but have no idea where their market will be or where they are going to find Guests to cruise on them?

Obviously they are not going to set down strict itineraries this far in advance, but they MUST know what region they are intending to send them to and have plans in place?

 

ex techie

 

 

I absolutely stand by that. I don't think Disney knows where they will home ported or has a final deployment strategy in place for five years from now. They know they can support two additional ships based on yields now, and that is all that is needed to move forward with a building contract.

 

There may be a vague long term plan, but it would be foolish to set anything in stone this far in advance UNLESS they have to make modifications to a ship to service a specific market like China.

[Ex techie]

Yes they were. I watched pricing and availability from almost a year out until just a week or two before sailing when it showed sold out. I had a party of over 20 onboard and we all booked at different times. Some more than six months out, and the last two weeks before sailing (apparently with the last balcony cabin). Pricing hardly changed from nine months to two weeks before. This surprised me. There was also absolutely no last minute discounting and the last person booked actually paid slightly more than everyone else.

 

Another way I can gauge discounting is by what lines are offering Interline fares. These are heavily discounted fares offered closer in to sailings for airline employees. It's rare you see DCL offer interline fares, but it does happen on occasion. Less than 10 a year I would guesstimate. Every now and then I will see one for the FANTASY, MAGIC, and WONDER but rarely if ever for DREAM. Even when they are offered they are not nearly as discounted as other lines. Also other lines have tons and tons of sailings offered for Interline, never Disney. Part of that is because DCL is smaller of course, but generally they just don't have to.

 

So how would you explain Dream 20% discounts on verandah Staterooms over Easter when that is one of DCL's holiday peaks and celebratory times?

 

Plus Florida discounts and Military discounts?

These must either be Staterooms that have not sold before or Guest's that have cancelled at the last minute?

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

I absolutely stand by that. I don't think Disney knows where they will home ported or has a final deployment strategy in place for five years from now. They know they can support two additional ships based on yields now, and that is all that is needed to move forward with a building contract.

 

There may be a vague long term plan, but it would be foolish to set anything in stone this far in advance UNLESS they have to make modifications to a ship to service a specific market like China.

 

You are confident now that if the market in China crashes, that the overall effect of that or a European market crash if the UK votes out of the EU, that DCL would have enough market in the States to support two new Dream class ships along with the other ships and no where to sail apart from the Bahama's, Caribbean, Alaska and west coast?

 

So we've discussed changes to the galley equipment, that we both agree are easily done, no gas, just electric, I've proposed that DCL would not install a casino in some space taken away from somewhere else. Shops, I agree to disagree as I think those cruising would want the Disney DCL merchandise more than high end designer purchases.

What other modifications? Signs? Easily done. Mandarin speaking CM's, a plenty.

Chef's, thousands of them out there willing to work for much less than the current DCL chef's.

What else?

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

I absolutely stand by that. I don't think Disney knows where they will home ported or has a final deployment strategy in place for five years from now. They know they can support two additional ships based on yields now, and that is all that is needed to move forward with a building contract.

 

There may be a vague long term plan, but it would be foolish to set anything in stone this far in advance UNLESS they have to make modifications to a ship to service a specific market like China.

 

Airlines manage to do this all the time when they order new aircraft, and often with many years of delay's when you think of the A380 and Boeing 777.

They have specific routes and have to be sure the airports can handle an aircraft the size of the A380, or is in fuel range?

Ordering a couple of fully outfitted A380's outweighs a new DCL ship!

 

ex techie

[eroller]

So how would you explain Dream 20% discounts on verandah Staterooms over Easter when that is one of DCL's holiday peaks and celebratory times?

 

Plus Florida discounts and Military discounts?

These must either be Staterooms that have not sold before or Guest's that have cancelled at the last minute?

 

ex techie

 

 

I can only speak to my specific sailing and what I have noticed when I check on pricing. Doing a quick check on pricing for March 25 on the DREAM, inside cabins start at $882 per person plus port charges. Seems like a decent yield to me. $294 a day per person for an inside cabin. Doubt too many other cruise lines are getting those per diems. Looking at CARNIVAL VICTORY also sailing on a 3-day cruise over Easter, rates start at $399 per person. You can get a suite for $779 per person. So a suite for less than an inside cabin on DCL. I don't think you are going to hear too many people saying how cheap a DCL cruise is. Quite the opposite. What I do see a LOT of is people complaining on this board why DCL cruises are so expensive. That also tells me there is not a lot of heavy discounting going on. People have become accustomed to $199 3-day cruises or less, and that doesn't happen on DCL no matter how much they discount.

 

DCL's Florida and Military discounts are nothing compared to discounts offered by other cruise lines, which also throw in beverage packages, free internet, pre paid gratuities, etc. I'm not saying DCL is immune to discounting, I just don't see it on nearly the same scale as on other cruise lines. It's also to a limited demographic and DCL is pretty strict about only offering a limited amount of cabins at those discounts.

[eroller]

Airlines manage to do this all the time when they order new aircraft, and often with many years of delay's when you think of the A380 and Boeing 777.

They have specific routes and have to be sure the airports can handle an aircraft the size of the A380, or is in fuel range?

Ordering a couple of fully outfitted A380's outweighs a new DCL ship!

 

ex techie

 

 

Depends on the size of the airline and their route structure. No US airline has ordered the A380 because there are too many limitations. Kind of like no other cruise line has ordered ships as large as the Oasis Class. Major US airlines have a 3-year fleet strategy in mind, especially when ordering new aircraft, but it's always fluid. Successful airlines shift aircraft all the time based on which routes are achieving the highest yields. Unprofitable routes are quickly dropped or become seasonal. Many US airlines are now using International configured aircraft on long-haul domestic routes, which may not have been the original intent but it's what the market calls for. Flexibility is key, which I think applies to cruise lines as well to a certain extent. This is why I don't see any line setting itineraries in stone 5 years in advance. They may have a general deployment in mind but I think it's pretty fluid until about 2 years in advance.

Edited March 9, 2016 by eroller

[eroller]

You are confident now that if the market in China crashes, that the overall effect of that or a European market crash if the UK votes out of the EU, that DCL would have enough market in the States to support two new Dream class ships along with the other ships and no where to sail apart from the Bahama's, Caribbean, Alaska and west coast?

 

So we've discussed changes to the galley equipment, that we both agree are easily done, no gas, just electric, I've proposed that DCL would not install a casino in some space taken away from somewhere else. Shops, I agree to disagree as I think those cruising would want the Disney DCL merchandise more than high end designer purchases.

What other modifications? Signs? Easily done. Mandarin speaking CM's, a plenty.

Chef's, thousands of them out there willing to work for much less than the current DCL chef's.

What else?

 

ex techie

 

 

Who is to say DCL plans to keep MAGIC and WONDER when the new ships are introduced? The plan may be to stay a 4-ship fleet but with overall higher capacity. I don't know. Personally I think Disney can support a 6-ship fleet even if Asia and China are not part of the picture. This is based on current yields which are higher than any other competing cruise line. Surely if Royal Caribbean and Carnival can support a 20+ fleet of ships, Disney can support 6. They may see some yield erosion but they could probably fill the ships. Some cruise lines are discovering it's better to maintain yield integrity and even sail with some empty cabins then fill the ship at any cost. I think DCL has held this philosophy all along.

 

If you really want to see what is involved with dedicating a new ship to China, I suggest you follow the construction and announcements regarding NORWEGIAN JOY, MAJESTIC PRINCESS, and GENTING DREAM. All three are being built and dedicated to the Chinese market and all three will have major modifications to support year round Chinese cruising. One such modification is a covered pool since it's very cold cruising out of Shanghai in the winter. Having lots of indoor spaces and activities immune to outside weather is important. Royal Caribbean Quantum Class ships are a great example of this. They are definitely designed for cold-weather cruising. The Disney ships not so much. They are geared towards the outdoors. Other modifications are quite specific to Chinese tastes from decor to cuisine. Many of the modifications haven't even been announced yet because the cruise lines keeping a tight lip for competitive reasons. It's not even just the ships themselves. Even how cruises are sold is completely different in China. Cruise lines have far less control over the process, at least for now.

 

Again I don't see Disney sending a ship year round to China. I could see them sending a ship to SE Asia and Australia seasonally, which is completely different than a dedicated year-round ship to China. Those can be marketed and booked worldwide and don't require such a specialized experience.

[Ex techie]

I can only speak to my specific sailing and what I have noticed when I check on pricing. Doing a quick check on pricing for March 25 on the DREAM, inside cabins start at $882 per person plus port charges. Seems like a decent yield to me. $294 a day per person for an inside cabin. Doubt too many other cruise lines are getting those per diems. Looking at CARNIVAL VICTORY also sailing on a 3-day cruise over Easter, rates start at $399 per person. You can get a suite for $779 per person. So a suite for less than an inside cabin on DCL. I don't think you are going to hear too many people saying how cheap a DCL cruise is. Quite the opposite. What I do see a LOT of is people complaining on this board why DCL cruises are so expensive. That also tells me there is not a lot of heavy discounting going on. People have become accustomed to $199 3-day cruises or less, and that doesn't happen on DCL no matter how much they discount.

 

DCL's Florida and Military discounts are nothing compared to discounts offered by other cruise lines, which also throw in beverage packages, free internet, pre paid gratuities, etc. I'm not saying DCL is immune to discounting, I just don't see it on nearly the same scale as on other cruise lines. It's also to a limited demographic and DCL is pretty strict about only offering a limited amount of cabins at those discounts.

 

Why would you try to use price comparisons for a 16 year old CARNIVAL BOOZE CRUISE ship to compare to the price of a yet to be 6 year old Dream cruise?

One built by "Tincantieri"! (I actually love that BTW!)

Especially one that only goes to Nassau and no private island?

 

Not fair comparisons.

 

I'm off now. I disagree with your opinion and thats fine by me.

 

ex techie

[Loonbeam]

Look, unless anyone here works for Disney corporate and feels like violating their non-competes (anyone?) we are not going to know what went into this decision...

 

Here's what we do know...

 

DCL feels confident enough in whatever plans they have to order 2 new ships.

 

In general, Disney's discounting is less than other cruise lines, but other cruise lines also have a LOT more berths to fill. That said, on a comparable itinerary (for example versus NCL Escape, which has similar schedule and ports) Disney is commanding a considerable price premium, even if discounted (example - right now you can book a Haven Spa Deluxe suite for a party of 2 on NCL with all the perks for less than a Concierge balcony on Disney for the same week in 2017). Even if Disney discounted 50 percent tomorrow, NCL would still be effectively cheaper with the addons.

 

Based on current trends, berth space at MW is getting claimed quickly. This may have been a factor in the decision (see first point above).

 

NO cruise line has concrete plans for 5 years from now in terms of porting. Ideas, yes, but locked in? No. (Now, if we want to play a prediction pool, my guess is they retrofit the Wonder to be more Asian market compatible (not a casino maybe, but change of menu, decor, staff and refitting the thermal spa to an asian bathhouse for example, send it on a run between Shanghai and HK to tie in to the parks - but that's simply what I would do based on current market projections). In general, the likelihood is that one new ship would homeport in PC and the other somewhere else...

 

They do not appear to be going the mega-ship route (yay!) but it will be 3 years before we hear what kind of amenities the new ships will have.

 

Sometime in around 2019 we'll have a better idea as to what their plans are and we can argue ineffectively about them then as well.

[eroller]

Loonbeam ... pretty much agree on all points.

[ducklite]

This makes no sense. I have a friend that works for Disney cruise lines and he tells me that sales are way down from last year in part because of recent policy changes such as the new alcohol policy and lack of real adult entertainment and smoking. Why in the world would build new ships?

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

 

DCL has pretty much the same smoking policy as all cruise lines these days. The casino on Windstar (100% 18+ on our two sailings with them) were generally empty every night. Maybe three or four nights there were a handful of people playing craps for an hour after dinner. I don't think casinos are as important to the majority of people as some might think.

 

I would prefer maybe some better segregation on DCL, particularly on the New builds there are too many kids passing though adult areas constantly. The new alcohol policy pretty much sealed it for us not sailing DCL again. We like our wines with age, and while we happily pay corkage and leave extra for the wine steward or server, we refuse to pay a 300-400% markup for a bottle of youthful wine that needs 10 years of age to be enjoyable. We carried on enough for a bottle a day plus a couple of Champers, and still purchased several bottles from DCL (whites and Champagne which don't require aging.).

[ducklite]

Depends on the size of the airline and their route structure. No US airline has ordered the A380 because there are too many limitations. Kind of like no other cruise line has ordered ships as large as the Oasis Class. Major US airlines have a 3-year fleet strategy in mind, especially when ordering new aircraft, but it's always fluid. Successful airlines shift aircraft all the time based on which routes are achieving the highest yields. Unprofitable routes are quickly dropped or become seasonal. Many US airlines are now using International configured aircraft on long-haul domestic routes, which may not have been the original intent but it's what the market calls for. Flexibility is key, which I think applies to cruise lines as well to a certain extent. This is why I don't see any line setting itineraries in stone 5 years in advance. They may have a general deployment in mind but I think it's pretty fluid until about 2 years in advance.

 

 

The main reason the US carriers aren't buying the A380 is because the design concept provides for a lot of "luxury" space, and Americans have proven that they aren't willing to shell out for more than a basic lay flat business seat on long hauls--and even those go unsold on a regular basis.

 

Without "apartments" and "suites" and lounges and other space dedicated to First Class passengers, the capacity would be so high that they would never fill the seats.

[eroller]

The main reason the US carriers aren't buying the A380 is because the design concept provides for a lot of "luxury" space, and Americans have proven that they aren't willing to shell out for more than a basic lay flat business seat on long hauls--and even those go unsold on a regular basis.

 

Without "apartments" and "suites" and lounges and other space dedicated to First Class passengers, the capacity would be so high that they would never fill the seats.

 

 

Not sure it's the main reason but definitely a reason. One of those limitations I mentioned about being too big.

Edited March 9, 2016 by eroller

[e2011]

Disney is already moving toward more on board pricing "add ons" similar to some of the other lines--such as the new ice cream outlet on the Dream (Vanillope's). And they haven't coupled it with discount pricing. They've also eliminated their "bring all you want" alcohol policy.

 

They must change with the market.

Edited March 9, 2016 by e2011

[e2011]

The OP simply posted that Disney has ordered two more ships. How did that simple statement turn into arguments about Disney earnings and port assignments and Airbus airplanes? It seems that some people who hang out on this board are always looking for something to argue about. Lighten up folks! Smell the roses...

Edited March 9, 2016 by e2011

[ArthurUSCG]

I am wondering if the current NYC/NJ sailings are testing the market for more east coast sailings. The Wounder could keep doing Alaska sailings in the summer with East coast sailings the rest of the year. The Magic would then stay in Europe doing the North/Baltic sea sailings with Mediterranean in the winter.

 

With the Dream still doing the 3/4 day sailings out of Port Canaveral. The Fantasy keeping with the 6/7 day Eastern Caribbean and the new ship doing the South Caribbean/Mexico sailings.

 

Having 3 ships at Port Canaveral would allow for a higher % of facility utilization with no/minimal build out. The current contracts would be amended for the additional days/man power.

 

The other new ship could do West coast sailings.

 

I don't see DCL expanding to China based on how the Shanghai park is doing and Disney usually likes to make bets with a better chance of return investment. I would expect Disney to do a few special sailings to gather data before committing a ship to sail out of Asia or other Pacific Countries.

[Winston Wolf]

Sorry, yes you did. Right above. I don't think even DCL has made a decision about where the two new ships will be home ported.

 

So you stand by your comment that DCL have ordered 2 new ships, 5000 tons larger than the Dream class, but have no idea where their market will be or where they are going to find Guests to cruise on them?

Obviously they are not going to set down strict itineraries this far in advance, but they MUST know what region they are intending to send them to and have plans in place?

 

ex techie

 

Enjoyable read, guys. Lots of good points in here. I agree with Ex Techie on this one though. DCL would not have ordered those ships unless they had done significant research into projected demand for their product and which regions they see growth in. They probably have a few scenarios for ship deployment worked out pending how the next few years go. I'd be stunned if one of those scenarios doesn't include Asia, pending the results of NCL and RCI over the next couple of years with NCL Joy and RCI Quantum.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Winston Wolf

[Host Mick]

In regards to China.

 

That was my first thought, due to the Disney parks.

 

However, there is gambling. When RCCL moved a ship to China they actually put the ship back into a shipyard shortly after it was built, to expand the casino.

 

Disney isn't big into gambling.

 

They'll also have to add 220V, 50hz power to all of the staterooms. Changing voltage is not so hard, changing frequency is much harder.