Just Off Sojourn

[jenidallas]

The daily fruit is still available in suites each day. We were asked if we wanted it or not (so it sounds like it's a matter of a quick word with one's suite stewardess).

 

Salads have been easily available - perhaps not highlighted on the menu with special accoutrements de jour but merely asking has worked.

 

Afternoon tea accompaniments are actually broader now under the passed tray program which I much prefer to the uncovered buffet that was often inappropriately touched by others.

 

The only disenchantment for me is the evening nibbles in the Observation Bar. I don't mind the presentation - it's the selection itself that isn't doing it for me.

 

PS - a general note about commentary about the things we don't like versus the things we do. I was told by a trustworthy source that one reason the Little Sisters vanished was that guests filled in tons of complaints about them on comment cards but those who loved them so never took the time to relay all the positive things they loved about them. Perhaps it's a lesson to us all to not just be "cruise critics" but also to celebrate the things we love. When I first started sailing Seabourn and posting on this forum, I was snowballed by all the positive things I read and that many of the regulars shared with me. Perusing the Seabourn forum today, the line sounds positively dreadful. It's no wonder corporate keeps making changes to try to please our insufferable group.

[pdx13]

The daily fruit is still available in suites each day. We were asked if we wanted it or not (so it sounds like it's a matter of a quick word with one's suite stewardess).

 

Salads have been easily available - perhaps not highlighted on the menu with special accoutrements de jour but merely asking has worked.

 

Afternoon tea accompaniments are actually broader now under the passed tray program which I much prefer to the uncovered buffet that was often inappropriately touched by others.

 

The only disenchantment for me is the evening nibbles in the Observation Bar. I don't mind the presentation - it's the selection itself that isn't doing it for me.

 

PS - a general note about commentary about the things we don't like versus the things we do. I was told by a trustworthy source that one reason the Little Sisters vanished was that guests filled in tons of complaints about them on comment cards but those who loved them so never took the time to relay all the positive things they loved about them. Perhaps it's a lesson to us all to not just be "cruise critics" but also to celebrate the things we love. When I first started sailing Seabourn and posting on this forum, I was snowballed by all the positive things I read and that many of the regulars shared with me. Perusing the Seabourn forum today, the line sounds positively dreadful. It's no wonder corporate keeps making changes to try to please our insufferable group.

 

I really doubt that corporate pays any attention to cruise critic, nor do the people who post or follow these boards represent more than a very small fraction of the Seabourn clientele. Nothing has been more criticized here than the smoking policy and yet there have been no changes. I think the comment cards have some value as they represent a broader section of the customer base, but I would not operate under the illusion that Seabourn caters to the "insufferable group" on CC.

[Chairsin]

Jenidallas, thanks for all of the clarification. It all sounds reasonable to me. I guess I don't understand concerns about lack of nibbles in The OB as personally I have no desire to eat anything but that is just me. Enjoy the rest of your cruise,

[lincslady]

I am as cynical as anyone about Seabourn's - or any other lines - motives, but have no objection to nibbles or afternoon tea items being offered to you; it may save wastage, but more important you do not risk someone else having picked something up and put it back. It has been seen. Also, we do not eat a great deal of fruit in the suite, and when we had a bowl of stuff it rarely got eaten; recently we have had just a couple of items per day, ripe and ready to eat. I found this preferable - maybe it is not done now unless you ask your stewardess.

 

We still like Seabourn best, and I am afraid are prepared to avoid the smokers rather than boycotting the line. I hope that those who will not travel Seabourn unless they change the smoking rules will keep on at them about it - might work in the end.

[sfvoyage]

I've been assured by Executive Chef Raj that the change in food presentation (i.e. no more buffet-style self-service) at the Observation Bar has nothing to do with cost. Rather, it's due to health regulations and requirements such as brightness of the lighting and "no carpeting allowed" at food stations for guests that made it impractical to serve food buffet-style at the Observation Bar without making major design changes that may affect the ambiance of the venue.

 

I didn't press him for more details or explanations. However, I did gain from the conversation a better appreciation of how much is involved behind the scene and that it's neither productive nor necessary to speculate and complain about every little change and attribute everything to cost cutting. I was impressed by how sincere, honest, and customer-focused he seemed.

[findacruise]

We board the Odyssey for a month in five days. I hate hearing about the cutbacks, but having experienced them on both Seabourn cruises I took last year, I'm prepared for whatever new is presented.

I really missed the buffet. The lame excuse about it being a health issue, was just that.....an excuse.

I also missed the food in the Observation lounge pre dinner....

They were Beta testing the TK menus in October, I'm hoping they've got it down by this point, six months later

 

deleted

Edited April 6, 2016 by findacruise

[Paint Horse]

Ever since we began cruising on every board on every website for every line, things have been getting worse and worse and worse.

 

I think we are headed toward a type of singularity as described by the Big Crunch theory where all cruise lines disappear into a Black Hole the reversal in what was once industry wide expansion having been induced by service, food, and quality cutbacks.

[Emperor Norton]

Or US cruise lines could all end up like US air carriers where even first/business is of dubious quality.

[ab21au]

Ever since we began cruising on every board on every website for every line, things have been getting worse and worse and worse.

 

I think we are headed toward a type of singularity as described by the Big Crunch theory where all cruise lines disappear into a Black Hole the reversal in what was once industry wide expansion having been induced by service, food, and quality cutbacks.

 

I think that is a bit extreme.

[phoodie]

We were on same cruise but had different opinion as to TK -- we really liked the TK meals. Found some of the shore excursions too difficult -- lots of walking. Would have liked to have known before the trip about the shuttle buses in each port -- they were terrific!

[medroots]

We were on Odyssey from Dec - March and had fruit nearly every day. The fruit may depend on the itinerary - Seabourn doesn't purchase meats or fresh fruits, vegetables, etc., in some countries.

 

We found the TK preps hit and miss - loved some, didn't care for others. The Napa burger and hotdogs were delicious but we ran out of the 'special' ingredient and they disappeared, replaced by their traditional burgers and hotdogs. They were still very good, just not as good as the TK offering.

 

As for the lack of nibbles in the evenings, I suspect one of the many reasons for the change is to protect us from some of our fellow guests. If you want to lose your appetite quickly, observe the people in the buffet line or even the restaurant ginger pots or the cookie tray at the Patio Grill, and watch how many people do not use the tongs provided. It's shocking how many people pick up pastries, bread, ginger pieces, etc. with their bare hands and many even set them back down to choose another. Even worse, some will sample the item by putting it in their mouth and decide they want another one, again using the same hand that was just in their mouth. One day in the Colonnade, I saw someone taste a sauce with the serving spoon. Fortunately, so did the crew working the buffet and had the entire dish (including food) taken away and replaced. I then saw an AMD discreetly take the guest aside and have a word. It's a pity that otherwise sophisticated and discerning people have no sense of, or refuse to display, basic hygiene or basic manners.

 

Chairsin, regarding tableside preps (along with candlelight dinners), my understanding is that the reasons for discontinuing are threefold: 1) a guest with long hair leaned over a candle - you can guess what followed; 2) a flambe prepared too close to draperies produced the same result as issue #1, thus no open flames near the tables (and guests); and 3) the, "me, too" requests, while a fairly simple accommodation on the smaller ships, became unmanageable on the larger ships. They simply don't like to say no, especially while they're clearly providing it to others. I'm sure you know that the special orders are still available if requested in advance, just not prepared table side. I agree that this was one of the small ship amenities that made the cruise so special. I also (begrudgingly) understand why the changes were made. Those were the days!

[nolatravelgirl]

3) the, "me, too" requests, while a fairly simple accommodation on the smaller ships, became unmanageable on the larger ships. They simply don't like to say no, especially while they're clearly providing it to others.

The way you state this is by implying that you were the first to ask for a flambe dish on Seabourn and everyone else is just following on to you. Did you too not learn about flambe dish requests from once seeing it prepared in the MDR? So wouldn't that make you a "me too" person as well? :confused::confused:

 

Should Seabourn hand out flambe status that says "if you traveled X number of nights on one of the little sisters, are over the age of 70 and want everything to remain just as it was in 1986 may all order flambe, all others are relegated to leftovers via dirty tongs and troughs of food in the colonnade? "

 

I personally think table side flambe is an overdone gimmick and is a tired technique that needs to be put out to pasture.

[Chairsin]

Jane, (Medroots),

Thank you for you explanation. Yes, I understand why they did away with the table side prep. We actually enjoyed steak tartare made table side (no flames involved!) as by doing it table side it was an interactive process and they could adjust the seasoning to our taste as they went along. We always tried to make a special event of it by ordering a grand bottle of wine the premium wine list as a way of thanking them for taking the trouble to do it. Many of the Asst. MD's loved to do it. One joined a cruise midway through and the first thing he said to us after we greeted him was when did we want him to make us steak tartare. We rarely special order, don't have room service, and don't eat caviar so this was always our Seabourn treat. But I am fine with them not doing it anymore and can appreciate it got more difficult when the passenger count went from 200 to over 400.

Nolatravelgirl,

I am not sue that you have interpreted Jane's comments as she intended them. As I read it the implication was that when you ordered table side prep on the little ships there were people that would see it and order it just because they thought if they did not order it they would be missing out on something.. (Just as I see many people ordering caviar every day not because they like it but just because they can.) For that very reason when we ordered table side prep we scheduled it for the very end of the trip just so this did not happen.

[nolatravelgirl]

Nolatravelgirl,

I am not sue that you have interpreted Jane's comments as she intended them. As I read it the implication was that when you ordered table side prep on the little ships there were people that would see it and order it just because they thought if they did not order it they would be missing out on something.. (Just as I see many people ordering caviar every day not because they like it but just because they can.) For that very reason when we ordered table side prep we scheduled it for the very end of the trip just so this did not happen.

You are making a leap that just because someone else orders something that they are just ordering it to order it and won't even consume such dish. I don't think I have ever seen someone order caviar then to go "oh, I don't like that I will just lick the creme fraiche spoon.":confused::confused: Why is it so far fetched to believe that folks other than the dinosaurs of Seabourn are the only ones who would enjoy a specific dish? Yes it does sometimes seem like people are copying but if something is good and it is on offer then it will go viral. You can't sit in the corner and say "only me." If you want something to be your secret then you should book a private venue and never ever post and brag on an internet bulletin board (as many here have done) about your special service.

[PaulaJK]

I don't see where Chairsin suggested that anyone ordered the items and then didn't consume them............Hope that we can move away from the angry, argumentative & adversarial and return to sharing information about changes

in nibbling & dining practices as there seem to be a fair number of changes on SB.

Are the canapes now being circulated in Observation similar to the former offerings [a bit like tapas]or an entirely different selection? And has passed tea time changed the offerings or is the only change in the items are served?

 

As a dinosaur on a number of lines, I miss some of the old time presentations.

but realize that current safety and health concerns dictate some of the changes.

Of course there is some irony in the self serve items above being changed while self serve Ad Hoc is added...and while mostly self serve Colonnade is a central dining venue when a gala buffet luncheon is a no-go.

[lincslady]

I was about to come in on this, but see that Paula JK has - this thread has got unnecessarily argumentative, IMO. Let's get back to being polite to one another, please, and exchanging useful information, which is what most of us try to do on these boards.

[nolatravelgirl]

I was about to come in on this, but see that Paula JK has - this thread has got unnecessarily argumentative, IMO. Let's get back to being polite to one another, please, and exchanging useful information, which is what most of us try to do on these boards.

 

So those who don't wax poetic for 1986 are not welcome and any change that occurs must be a bad one. Got it! Seabourn is catering to the next generation of cruisers and if they lose a bit of the old stoics then it seems as though Seabourn is okay with that as there are plenty of Gen X and Millennials ready to spend their money for years to come. ;) If these old touches were really driving customers away greater than the new enhancements are bringing in new clientele (Seabourn Square, Enhanced Spa, expanded dining options) then they would bring them back, but as of yet it doesn't appear that is the case.

[Les Picantins]

What is ad hoc? At first I thought it was a typo, but it keeps being repeated. Please educate me.

[pdx13]

What is ad hoc? At first I thought it was a typo, but it keeps being repeated. Please educate me.

 

It is Thomas Keller's bistro style/casual restaurant in Napa. Check out Jenidallas' excellent review.

[Chairsin]

Ad Hoc is the name of Thomas Keller's casual farm-to-table restaurant in Napa California. His first, and most famous one is the more upscale French Laundry. He also has a restaurant in New York called Per Se. Unlike many "famous" chefs he has resisted the notion of developing an empire of restaurants, endorsing numerous products and staring in a cooking show on the Food Channel. So this is partly why I am quite surprised he has taken on the Seabourn challenge.

[nolatravelgirl]

What is ad hoc? At first I thought it was a typo, but it keeps being repeated. Please educate me.

It is a Thomas Keller restaurant based in California. On certain nights in the Colonnade they are trying to replicate the California experience like a pop up restaurant and it is being met with great resistance by the Seabourn stoics who believe nothing should ever change. I haven't personally experienced the Seabourn version but I would say you should check out jenidallas' blog post that gives the most detail and comparison to the original Ad Hoc that I have seen online. The majority of the reviews that I have read here on CC are vague and get so up in arms from the beginning because they don't like the glassware, lack of a bread plate and the casual waiter attire that they are already in a sour mood before the first dish arrives.

 

http://jetsettershomestead.boardingarea.com/2016/04/10/ad-hoc-verdict/

[sfvoyage]

For those who prefer things as they once were, perhaps Cunard may be a better fit. We just heard from friends (Seabourn veterans) who just sailed on Cunard for the first time (Queen Victoria - Queen's Grill - to be exact), and they raved about it. Even though they disliked having to pay extra for everything (mineral water, even), they thought the food was better than Seabourn, and they loved the flambés prepared table-side. They're also into dressing up for dinner every night and the three-class set-up.

 

Chacun à son goût.

[BrisbaneGran]

So those who don't wax poetic for 1986 are not welcome and any change that occurs must be a bad one. Got it! Seabourn is catering to the next generation of cruisers and if they lose a bit of the old stoics then it seems as though Seabourn is okay with that as there are plenty of Gen X and Millennials ready to spend their money for years to come. ;) If these old touches were really driving customers away greater than the new enhancements are bringing in new clientele (Seabourn Square, Enhanced Spa, expanded dining options) then they would bring them back, but as of yet it doesn't appear that is the case.

 

We all know that Seabourn has to attract new, and younger clientele. However this clientele are also the ones who are still working and can only fit in short cruises. It is still all "us dinosaurs" who are filling the ships for months at a time and therefore providing Seabourn with the majority of their profits. It is fine to introduce different and new ideas, but as us oldies are still the majority, the practices that brought us to Seabourn and kept us with Seabourn, should be looked at very carefully before being discarded. Seabourn HAS to look for new clients for the future, BUT they also need to realise that WE ARENT DEAD YET! :(

[nolatravelgirl]

We all know that Seabourn has to attract new, and younger clientele. However this clientele are also the ones who are still working and can only fit in short cruises. It is still all "us dinosaurs" who are filling the ships for months at a time and therefore providing Seabourn with the majority of their profits. It is fine to introduce different and new ideas, but as us oldies are still the majority, the practices that brought us to Seabourn and kept us with Seabourn, should be looked at very carefully before being discarded. Seabourn HAS to look for new clients for the future, BUT they also need to realise that WE ARENT DEAD YET! :(

 

Have you shown your objection with your dollars?

 

While you say that they should keep catering to your crowd because you are retired you may want to look at the younger generation, especially those with an income that allows them to afford Seabourn, they generally aren't slaving away at a 9-5 job. They work in technology/digital/start ups which doesn't punch a clock. My firm allows freedom to take time off (months/year) with no repercussions to our jobs. Friends who work contract in the digital workspace can literally work from anywhere or not work at all if they so choose. Doing project based work allows us to step away and take a fabulously long journey which may include a cruise or taking time to immerse in a French cooking school, etc. Not all young folks are limited to 7 day sailings. There is definitely an untapped market in the luxury space for the younger generation. Look at how the mainstreams are building the "ship within a ship" concept to cater to the younger generation who is craving something better.

[Joc123]

On our last cruise the ship was full but it was announced only 14 were sailing with Seabourn for the first time!

I really wanted to like TK menus but for me, it just didn't work. I actually liked the casual style of the Ad Hoc nights but the food was not what I liked. I never eat dessert and cheese courses but they are brought out anyway - what a waste.

In the MDR the only dish I liked was a pea pasta starter. I wish I had ordered it as a main also.

Instead of trying to replicate the dishes that are served on land, why don't they say the menus are inspired by TK. That way they would get the kudos from the name but menus would be more suited for life at sea - win / win